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Warcraft III Reforged - What we know... so far.

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Do you know how to read ? Yes you can miss something that is wonderful is you want.
I sure can read, that's why I was able to make a question, makes me wonder if you are the one who can't.
"that is wonderful"
Oh yeah, those ctrl+v models from WoW(Which totally destroyed WCIII's epic voices) are really something.
 
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Honestly there isn’t much difference. I don’t really what they would have retcon. Muridan death ? Won’t have change much. The only thing that could have gone wrong would have been the way Kaelthas was treated.
And from what I have read, if it was just giving some more lore to Jaina, Sylvanas, or any other secondary characters we might see, that won’t change much.
 
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Absolutely. Even if it was only little cutscene between acts we already knows.
I still Blizzard will be going foward and had things we don’t expect.
 
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Why do you insist on changing the story of a game that was released more than a decade ago?

It's something I will never understand, if you want WoW you just have to save 13 € every month.
 

deepstrasz

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Don't you think it'll be cool to align the story of war3 to that of wow?
Since we now have WOW-style models, not having WOW lore is like body without its soul.
And btw what wrong with the new story?
No. WoW diverged too much especially since WoD.
What's wrong, he asks...
Problem with that is, the gaemplay will probably be the same, nothing new or interesting in the campaign maps...
 
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It isn’t a point of gameplay. It’s about lore. The story was good and it was never about changing it.
By the way warlord of Draenor in terms of lore was a stepping stone to stop making WoW killing the lore so I don’t know why you chose that one. If you want to speak about lore getting throw appart you can speak about vanilla, or even more Burning Crusade. Even Wotlk don’t make sense on many things.
And coming back to the stupid control + v thing. Modernize a game from the basics is far from being easy and in terms of money it’s cost a lot more than make a new game. Then if you played a lot of wow you would realize that those models are standalones and have nothing to do with WoW.
 

deepstrasz

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By the way warlord of Draenor in terms of lore was a stepping stone to stop making WoW killing the lore so I don’t know why you chose that one. If you want to speak about lore getting throw appart you can speak about vanilla, or even more Burning Crusade. Even Wotlk don’t make sense on many things.
Overall it's killer. But time travel is one of the most killer plots when that isn't even part of the universe/story to begin with.
 
It isn’t a point of gameplay. It’s about lore. The story was good and it was never about changing it.
By the way warlord of Draenor in terms of lore was a stepping stone to stop making WoW killing the lore so I don’t know why you chose that one. If you want to speak about lore getting throw appart you can speak about vanilla, or even more Burning Crusade. Even Wotlk don’t make sense on many things.

I can understand TBC being messed up but everything went downhil after WOTLK and WoD was the top of it with time travel. Then Legion came and butchered more with spaceships. BFA don't even comment on it. Now we have Shadowlands that's starting killed whole lore again like it was not dead enough
 
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I don’t see how reintroducing dead character is bad.
Just look at legon. In BC Illidan was a character that in a point of lore was treated like trash. In Legion he was bring back into glory. And that’s lore killing to change something that was wrong ?
Honestly did you guys ever played those expansions or are speaking about thoughts ?
 

deepstrasz

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I don’t see how reintroducing dead character is bad.
... some of us like to live the present and future.
Just look at legon. In BC Illidan was a character that in a point of lore was treated like trash. In Legion he was bring back into glory. And that’s lore killing to change something that was wrong ?
Without speculating, Illidan died in TfT.
Honestly did you guys ever played those expansions or are speaking about thoughts ?
I read about them, got informed. WoW is not my type of game. Warcraft RTS is, especially the third.
WoW has the influence of affecting the story of other Warcraft games.
 
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Nope. Metzen himself said, that originally theywas supposed to be a cinematic showing Illidan being saved by Vash and Kael. At the time they didn’t do it because they didn’t had enought money.
You’re right WoD did nothing for the future. Just introducing back in all glory one of the greatest character of warcraft. Guldan.
 

deepstrasz

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Nope. Metzen himself said, that originally theywas supposed to be a cinematic showing Illidan being saved by Vash and Kael.
That would help my campaign. However, I really need to see that. Citation needed.
You’re right WoD did nothing for the future. Just introducing back in all glory one of the greatest character of warcraft. Guldan.
Press to reboot.
 
... some of us like to live the present and future.

Without speculating, Illidan died in TfT.

I read about them, got informed. WoW is not my type of game. Warcraft RTS is, especially the third.
WoW has the influence of affecting the story of other Warcraft games.

Exact comment I'lld write, no need to argue more.
 
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But you don’t even put an argument XD
Ok what was good in WoD ? Introducing back characters who were really interesting.
Gettin read of a character that was nonsense since the start.
Bringing back Kadgar who is someone really important since w2.
And creating a way to Legion which actually what BC should have looked like.
 
But you don’t even put an argument XD
Ok what was good in WoD ? Introducing back characters who were really interesting.
Gettin read of a character that was nonsense since the start.
Bringing back Kadgar who is someone really important since w2.
And creating a way to Legion which actually what BC should have looked like.

All the parts you have said are lazy writing and recycling stuff to ruin their good lore, Khadgar became a joke, Legion became even more worse, Grom=no character left, other chieftains= wasted directly.
 
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Well since you guys don't argue there is no point in pursuing this. I bet none of you played those expansions, especially since you didn't anwsered me when I asked it. Just realize that because of people like you we may even have even more nonsense in the story. I'm thinking in particular about one of the paladin wielding Ashbringer, which should have been explained since he is not a Mograine.
 
Nope. Metzen himself said, that originally theywas supposed to be a cinematic showing Illidan being saved by Vash and Kael. At the time they didn’t do it because they didn’t had enought money.
You’re right WoD did nothing for the future. Just introducing back in all glory one of the greatest character of warcraft. Guldan.

I also seem to remember this. That would explain how Illidan survived the fight with Arthas. Besides, Keal and Vash were right there in Icecrown.
 

deepstrasz

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But you don’t even put an argument XD
Liking characters and wanting to see them is not an argument.

WoW retconned the factions due to MMORPG reasons.
TBC retconned the draenei, eredar, blood elves, whatnot. Also, spaceships!
WotLK brought conspiracy people from the underground. Always must be a lich king, lol. Sylvanas came to like being undead instead of hating it and fighting for release etc.
MoP is a total filler.
WoD retconned the retconns of WoW.
Legion and BfA are just there to further the retcons.

Let's not forget about lame Old Gods, lol.

Just realize that because of people like you we may even have even more nonsense in the story. I'm thinking in particular about one of the paladin wielding Ashbringer, which should have been explained since he is not a Mograine.
I've raised concerns on that one. The idea of the Ashbringer was cliche from the start (in WoW). A fire sword to clash with a frost one, come on...

But we're actually waiting for arguments from you since you only say WoW is good because it is and you like it.

Even from the Shadowlands intro you can tell how cheesy Warcraft has become.

I also seem to remember this. That would explain how Illidan survived the fight with Arthas. Besides, Keal and Vash were right there in Icecrown.
You only need retcons to "explain" anything.

If he indeed said it (which I'm still waiting for the evidence), it matters when he did. If it was around TBC, I doubt it matters.
 
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If he indeed said it (which I'm still waiting for the evidence), it matters when he did. If it was around TBC, I doubt it matters.

But Illidan was not finished yet. Meeting Arthas at the glacier's base, the two warriors engaged in single combat. After a few minutes of exchanging blows, however, Arthas overcame Illidan's defenses and cut him down. Illidan Stormrage was badly wounded, but not killed. After it became clear for Vashj and Kael that they could not destroy the Frozen Throne, they retreated, eventually back to Outland, taking Illidan with them.

Note that the in-game animation between Illidan and Arthas was originally planned to be a video cinematic. Time constraints, however, forced the scene to be done inside the game. The developers have said that their greatest regret about this change is that many assumed Illidan died, when the video would have revealed that Illidan survived to watch Arthas's transformation.

There's also unused cut voice files from the cinematic:

Arthas: You are a piteous creature, Illidan. You don't even deserve an honorable death.
Arthas: Leave this world and never return. If you do- I'll be waiting.

AND I've attached the unused voice lines as attachments.
 

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deepstrasz

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@A Void
"Note that the in-game animation between Illidan and Arthas was originally planned to be a video cinematic. Time constraints, however, forced the scene to be done inside the game. The developers have said that their greatest regret about this change is that many assumed Illidan died, when the video would have revealed that Illidan survived to watch Arthas's transformation."
Where from though?

Were they actually going to use those files or did they just scrap the idea like with those lines about Jaina dying?

Even with a lower budget or time/release constraints, they made the Illidan vs Arthas scene which was easier to do than the ending that followed. So, I really don't see why they didn't show Illidan being rescued or seeing Arthas, it would have take a few seconds.
 
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As long as it serves the cause it is good, keep WoW designs and lore away from WC3
Agree that some stuff doesn't fit (e.g Giant Arcane Dome on the Broken Isle), but don't you think that so many plot wholes, ruin the story? Like example, why would Arthas date a common girl? How doesn't Tyrande know about the most sacred temple of Elune, that's on the islands she never heard about, same for Malfurion and Maiev? etc...
 
@A Void
"Note that the in-game animation between Illidan and Arthas was originally planned to be a video cinematic. Time constraints, however, forced the scene to be done inside the game. The developers have said that their greatest regret about this change is that many assumed Illidan died, when the video would have revealed that Illidan survived to watch Arthas's transformation."
Where from though?

Were they actually going to use those files or did they just scrap the idea like with those lines about Jaina dying?

Even with a lower budget or time/release constraints, they made the Illidan vs Arthas scene which was easier to do than the ending that followed. So, I really don't see why they didn't show Illidan being rescued or seeing Arthas, it would have take a few seconds.

Those voices were suppose to be used inside their CGI cinematic, but they couldn't do it due to time constraints. So they kept the voice files and instead created an in-game cutscene. For some reason they didn't include them there either, probably technical limitation with how the cutscene was implemented.
 

deepstrasz

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Agree that some stuff doesn't fit (e.g Giant Arcane Dome on the Broken Isle), but don't you think that so many plot wholes, ruin the story? Like example, why would Arthas date a common girl? How doesn't Tyrande know about the most sacred temple of Elune, that's on the islands she never heard about, same for Malfurion and Maiev? etc...
Isn't like that not our concern but WoW's? I mean, why should Warcraft III fix their WoW errors?
 
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Exactly, Warcraft III they were explained greatly already. WoW retconned stuff into something else instead of following the lore
Isn't like that not our concern but WoW's? I mean, why should Warcraft III fix their WoW errors?
Not true. In wc3 Arthas is stated to be a prince and Jaina a commoner, and they are clearly in love. Why would a prince be with a girl below his rank, and everyone be OK with it? Where did Kael'thas suddenly appear in TFT and stuff?

I maybe biased, but idk. Maybe cause I had a lot of fun with WoW, but really, a lot of plot wholes there are now.
 
Not true. In wc3 Arthas is stated to be a prince and Jaina a commoner, and they are clearly in love. Why would a prince be with a girl below his rank, and everyone be OK with it? Where did Kael'thas suddenly appear in TFT and stuff?

I maybe biased, but idk. Maybe cause I had a lot of fun with WoW, but really, a lot of plot wholes there are now.

Jaina wasn't a commoner, she was Antonidas' apprentice who underwent several missions with prince Arthas before Warcraft 3's story line. Don't pull your rank-dogma out of your biased view, he can fall in love with whoever he pleases.

Keal was a Dalaran survivor, after the destruction of Dalaran.


Seriously, did u ever play Warcraft 3?
 

deepstrasz

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Not true. In wc3 Arthas is stated to be a prince and Jaina a commoner, and they are clearly in love. Why would a prince be with a girl below his rank, and everyone be OK with it? Where did Kael'thas suddenly appear in TFT and stuff?
A commoner that was a prodigious student of the Kirin Tor, not a farmer.
Where did Maiev appear from? I mean, sure there are plot holes but with WoW, even more.
Kael was just not shown during the Quel'thalas siege. There's a theory that Kael was in Kirin Tor and then in Quel'thalas when both of Arthas' attacks happened, lol. I don't buy that one. It's too silly, not impossible though.
Maiev was taken by surprise by Tyrande's sudden break in or wasn't there when it happened and afterwards the character was too occupied with the demon invasion to go after Illidan. Seeing that Mal'furion just banished the brother, Maiev came onto the stage as an important character.

The question to be asked is, is it really important, does not knowing those insignificant details actually hurt the story? I think not. However, things like turning the draenei from extinct to lost ones/broken and then relating them directly with the eredar and them coming with a magical spaceship from another planet on a planet that got its name after them, is not only worse but significant.

Jaina wasn't a commoner, she was Antonidas' apprentice who underwent several missions with prince Arthas before Warcraft 3's story line. Don't pull your rank-dogma out of your biased view, he can fall in love with whoever he pleases.
Also, their love was a secret until a point.
 
Certain characters not appearing like Maiev or Keal wasn't a plot hole. The areas themselves are much bigger than what they look like in Warcraft 3 campaign. They were downsized for the sake of game-play. As a result, some characters were in the same area, but off-screen, since the areas the campaign focused on were only a portion of the actual area size.

The same reason why units looked as big as the buildings and doodads.
 

deepstrasz

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Certain characters not appearing like Maiev or Keal wasn't a plot hole. The areas themselves are much bigger than what they look like in Warcraft 3 campaign.
Minor plot holes, basically subjective plot holes. They don't hurt the story at all. Those characters were created to complete and further the story. They are by no means suddenly introduced or retcons.
As a result, some characters were in the same area, but off-screen, since the areas the campaign focused on were only a portion of the actual area size.
Exactly.
 
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Jaina wasn't a commoner, she was Antonidas' apprentice who underwent several missions with prince Arthas before Warcraft 3's story line. Don't pull your rank-dogma out of your biased view, he can fall in love with whoever he pleases.

Keal was a Dalaran survivor, after the destruction of Dalaran.


Seriously, did u ever play Warcraft 3?
She was his apprentice, but was a commoner. And their love was obvious to Uther and the soldiers, Falric etc...If she was a princess of Kul Tiras, that would explain a lot of things.
Kael is the perfect example of TfT retconning Roc. Where was he when Arthas slaughtered his kingdom, and when Arthas destroyed Dalaran. I see a major plot whole. He just show's up from nowhere to Maiev and Tyrande, and Tyrande wants to help him cause he looks like some of Jaina's soldiers.
Same thing about Maiev.
 
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deepstrasz

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She was his apprentice, but was a commoner. And their love was obvious to Uther and the soldiers, Falric etc...
From the RoC manual:
jaina1.png
It's LADY Jaina Proudmoore. She wasn't quite a commoner, more of an aristocrat.
 
She was his apprentice, but was a commoner. And their love was obvious to Uther and the soldiers, Falric etc...If she was a princess of Kul Tiras, that would explain a lot of things.
Kael is the perfect example of TfT retconning Roc. Where was he when Arthas slaughtered his kingdom, and when Arthas destroyed Dalaran. I see a major plot whole. He just show's up from nowhere to Maiev and Tyrande, and Tyrande wants to help him cause he looks like some of Jaina's soldiers.

read the posts above...

Just because we didn't see them, doesn't mean they weren't there.
 

deepstrasz

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Kael is the perfect example of TfT retconning Roc. Where was he when Arthas slaughtered his kingdom, and when Arthas destroyed Dalaran. I see a major plot whole. He just show's up from nowhere to Maiev and Tyrande, and Tyrande wants to help him cause he looks like some of Jaina's soldiers.
You've missed @A Void's point and the game's.

Where were all those WoW blood elf characters then that appeared after TfT?
Warcraft III is an RTS, not a book. Off-screen is a valid point.

Tyrande helped Kael not only because the character was an elf but because they were at a mutual need since the place was unfamiliar to the night elves and the blood elves needed safe passage.
 
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