Warcraft III Reforged - Artistic/Textures/UI Feedback

[Venombite]

It's funny how people still keep complaining about the new unit models. There are dozens of reasons why Refunded became a disaster, and new unit models are the least, if their the reason at all. The reasons are pretty much everything else.
Complaining about new unit models is like complaining about the still in one piece roof of a building whose wall have crumbled at this point.

 

[StormKnight]

It's funny how people still keep complaining about the new unit models. There are dozens of reasons why Refunded became a disaster, and new unit models are the least, if their the reason at all. The reasons are pretty much everything else.
Complaining about new unit models is like complaining about the still in one piece roof of a building whose wall have crumbled at this point.

This is its own niche thread created for artistic feedback. so complaining about people giving feedback about something in a controlled location without going unto other areas bothering people is sort of foolish. and for the record. no i fully know of the many other problems the game has through and through. and i will hardly try to cast any part of it aside. all of them are equally important and played a major roll in unison as to why Reforged did poorly. with the exception of disconnections that are above all because it makes the game unplayable.

But we should end this specific discussion right here since i'd like for the Thread to remain on topic as it should.
This threads name isn't "Why Reforged Failed insert your opinion"

Its "Warcraft III Reforged - Artistic/Textures/UI Feedback"

 

[Juveqis]

It's funny how people still keep complaining about the new unit models. There are dozens of reasons why Refunded became a disaster, and new unit models are the least, if their the reason at all. The reasons are pretty much everything else.
Complaining about new unit models is like complaining about the still in one piece roof of a building whose wall have crumbled at this point.

Yeah, it's true, you are 100% right, thank God that you are here to show us the path of what is worth complaining or what is not, you decide on the rest of the mortals since you have the absolute truth...
Praise Venombite!

It's not like the original game takes up 2 GB and Reforged takes up an extra 30 GB...
It have nothing to do with new unit models, right?
Not related at all...

Damn, you really must think we're retarded...

 

[loktar]

lol jeez calm down

 

[Venombite]

Quick fact checker:

what is worth complaining or what is not

No, I didn't say what's worth complaining about and what's not. Everything that helps you went your frustration is worth complaining. I just said that, to me at least, the unit model art is the last thing to cause you frustration in the first place, at this point. Especially since the game has dozens of bugs, stability and performance issues to a point it feels unplayable at times. And that it's lacking 17 year old features that they obviously weren't able to deliver in time.

It's not like the original game takes up 2 GB and Reforged takes up an extra 30 GB...
It have nothing to do with new unit models, right?
Not related at all...

No, it doesn't. It has to do with release policy, that makes Refunded a forced downgrade. One of the biggest reasons to cause frustration, besides the fact that it was released unfinished. So it ultimately went to become the forced downgrade that adds 28Gbs to people who don't want Refunded. It has nothing to do with units art.

And since I can complain about art, here is a complain of mine. The problem, to me, aren't new unit models, but the fact that they took 2020 unit models and put them on like 2008 background. Ground, trees, cliffs, vegetation, water, don't fit the new models at all, and look like they're lagging ten years in the past. And the terrible lighting is another thing, though it's the result of modified/redone engine being scrapped, obviously, and releasing the game with 2020 models on a prehistoric engine.

 

[YourArthas]

Whenever someone posts a nice feedback it just gets lost in other peoples unreleated stuff, it is better to give that great post more spot.

My final two cents on Reforgeds visual overhaul

• Chapter 1:

I actually realize how to express myself exactly the way i wanted.

Warcraft 3's vanilla visuals supports the artist expressing how a model PERFECTLY looks without the game engine getting in the way of that with its lightning.

So if the artist paints metal glow on a shoulderpad of a Footman it will remain there forever with no interference, so how good the model looks is how good the author drew its texture and wrapped it perfectly like a gift around the model.

This is untapped art potential right here, and instead of Reforged expanding on this. they make a system in which first the models look objectively worse without the ingame settings, then they look worse or good depending on the ever changing lightning reflected upon them in an RTS game that is meant to keep visual integrity and not suffer massive framerate problems with numbers on the screen.

This perfectly in a nutshell represents how i feel about the new visual overhaul and how it impacted the game. and i'm soo happy i finally managed to bring this into words. i wasn't able to due to the lack of understanding how to express what was on my mind.

• Chapter 2:

Reforged feels like a visual outcast.
It is visually incompatible in Blizzard Games categories.
It doesn't belong in Warcraft 3. it doesn't belong in WoW it doesn't belong in Hots. it doesn't belong in Diablo nor Starcraft, i don't know where it belongs honestly. where am i meant to put this in ?
Overwatch is more stylish cartoony then Reforged.
Where in the Blizzard game category is Reforged suppose to be in terms of visuals?


If Reforged was meant to bring new visuals we were meant to accept but have a choice to ignore then why do it to a game (Warcraft III) with an existing visuals that is tied to how other Blizzard visuals also looks.

Classic Mode is not a justification for this action, because it is not much to ask for Blizzard to simply follow a more faithful overhaul as an upgrade.

Just make Reforgeds its entirely different thing or make a new sequel, then remaster Warcraft 3 like how Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition and Starcraft 1 and C&C Remaster is.

Could it possibly be that Reforged visuals alone couldn't save them enough money so that they needed to leach and ruin Warcraft 3 just so this.... abomination could be born ? (Foods of all kind for thought, Tarts, Cakes, Roasted Chicken, Pasta with meatballs, you name it)

• Chapter 3:

I realize there are those who love the new visuals and were invited to this game because of the advertised visuals, its a matter of opinion that who thinks if traditional Blizzard art looks better. or this new take on an existing old game.

Just know that, Blizzard didn't even deliver on the promise they gave to these new subset of people anyway, since if we're talking about a new take then the 2018 visuals were better for that then the current one. because the current one is trying to cater to traditional Blizzard art. aka stylized cartoony art. but its failing horribly at it. so Blizzards new visual overhaul is completely the opposite of how their other games look. and it isn't even trying to push its own look so its betraying the new audience they found because of the new visuals since they heavily rolled back on the more realistic and gritty looks since 2018.

• Chapter 4

Also would like to say something about the difference of how the art looks and how its transitioned into gameplay. in this regard i stand fully with how Vanilla Warcraft 3 looks, everyone does like to agree that the game seems to have "exaggerated" parts, well yes and no. the exaggeration is much more heavily emphasized in WoW and Hots compared to Warcraft 3 Vanilla (Which is what i personally support).

There are examples of faithful art done by Andre Kent over at ArtStation. i especially love his Footman.
<GloriousFootman.PNG>

You can see aside from the chest being cloth (most likely due to it not being the main part of this specific work he was trying to do) there is no such thing as exaggerated Shoulderpads. And the way in which it manages to perfectly modernize the original concept of the INGAME model is really dare i say... orgasmic.

Also in one aspect Reforged fails to adapt traditional art, is realistic proportion sizes of body parts, yet a bit too much blown out of proportion armor parts. Like how the original Human Paladins body was very beefy same so in artworks of it, yet the armor was tuned down and the cloth parts over it helped both for detecting the models team color and also showing a more humble look for the model, while the new one aside from the head is tuned down body parts but blown out of proportion armor size and detail.

So in conclusion my personal position on the visual overhaul is somewhere in between the simplistic details and faithful proportion sizes of the original games ingame models (Big or Small) and the lightning and graphics engine of the Heros of the Storm. since i hate unnecessary minor details on models of an RTS game that doesn't need to be there. (not to take simpler details as a meaning of lesser quality of set details)

The least one can say about the visual overhaul plan over this project is: Very Confusing. or Without any set in stone goal.

• Bonus:

This is Thralls ingame Reforged model, simply dismounted by a Retera. (The Shorka)

<Thrall HD.PNG>

This is the same model, but its not ingame and is not using the ingame lightning and graphics that it is soo dependent on.

<Thrall HD Model.PNG>

This is a fan made Thrall model that is not "HD". (Made by Traggey)

<Thrall Classic Graphics.png>

^^^ This model looks exactly like this both ingame or outside of the game through a model viewer.

Its what i like to call the art of ageless graphics. but Reforgeds realistic take is going to age much worse. its going to be extremely average visuals in a year or 2. because Blizzard failed to transition their ageless graphics standards and channel it unto the new project.

In any case, thanks for reading.

 

[SebioL]

Just to add one more thing, the model can be both hd and look great inside or outside of the game too by keeping the art style Warcraft universe have and being properly made: https://trello-attachments.s3.amazo...53/4f021f1ecec725097e304b6be043eb52/image.png

YourArthas, I don't think it's so good enough to overload a machine so much in the face of what it has offered. (landscape effects, general ambience, quality terrains ...)

Storm Knight,
As for the models, frankly I don't see why so much despair. Have you changed the traditional design of Blizzard games? Okay, but it changed for the better. If on the one hand Reforged became a differentiated game on models, this difference was to improve. I much prefer these models with highly realistic features (different from HOTS, WOW, Diablo), than the HD models from the last games, only repeat the same things. Example of the Paladins, the faces look like real people.
I appreciate the drastic change in the visual style of an RTS, we are in a new generation, nobody is forced to live tied to the same historical design just because they have marked our generations. If one thing was good, it was the aesthetic innovation of the models, Reforged reinvented itself in terms of realistic style, only for the models I made a point of paying for the game. And they were wrong ... It was because they did not make even more models in this genre.
If you want HD models with the same standard footprint, you have had this option to import your WOW, Diablo, HOTS for many years in your Wc3 classic.
What we should complain about and none of you almost mention, is the landscape structure that also lacked being realistic, it maintained the same format of land and poor environmental accessories as the old one. On the one hand, they entered for a new aesthetic generation (models). On the other hand (environments), Blizzard missed it!

 

[deepstrasz]

Example of the Paladins, the faces look like real people.

Very realistic, big tall bodies, small heads and doll portraits.

 

[YourArthas]

YourArthas, I don't think it's so good enough to overload a machine so much in the face of what it has offered. (landscape effects, general ambience, quality terrains ...)

Storm Knight,
As for the models, frankly I don't see why so much despair. Have you changed the traditional design of Blizzard games? Okay, but it changed for the better. If on the one hand Reforged became a differentiated game on models, this difference was to improve. I much prefer these models with highly realistic features (different from HOTS, WOW, Diablo), than the HD models from the last games, only repeat the same things. Example of the Paladins, the faces look like real people.
I appreciate the drastic change in the visual style of an RTS, we are in a new generation, nobody is forced to live tied to the same historical design just because they have marked our generations. If one thing was good, it was the aesthetic innovation of the models, Reforged reinvented itself in terms of realistic style, only for the models I made a point of paying for the game. And they were wrong ... It was because they did not make even more models in this genre.
If you want HD models with the same standard footprint, you have had this option to import your WOW, Diablo, HOTS for many years in your Wc3 classic.
What we should complain about and none of you almost mention, is the landscape structure that also lacked being realistic, it maintained the same format of land and poor environmental accessories as the old one. On the one hand, they entered for a new aesthetic generation (models). On the other hand (environments), Blizzard missed it!

We are not trying to overload a machine we are trying to *remaster* a game, the models of Reforged are not an improvement, and no it did not change for better, it became a generic non blizzard game. Blizzard is famous with their art style, Warcraft franchise has a style and Reforged is not that it is just a mobile game looking RPG(!) with WC3 name written on it.

Models do not have any real hand driven detail and most improtantly they do not even have care to even fit with each other, one doodad named 'wall' has a different colour than the next one called 'wall end' that's how they did not even give a shit about the game called 'Warcraft III' when they were making them.

 

[StormKnight]

YourArthas, I don't think it's so good enough to overload a machine so much in the face of what it has offered. (landscape effects, general ambience, quality terrains ...)

Storm Knight,
As for the models, frankly I don't see why so much despair. Have you changed the traditional design of Blizzard games? Okay, but it changed for the better. If on the one hand Reforged became a differentiated game on models, this difference was to improve. I much prefer these models with highly realistic features (different from HOTS, WOW, Diablo), than the HD models from the last games, only repeat the same things. Example of the Paladins, the faces look like real people.
I appreciate the drastic change in the visual style of an RTS, we are in a new generation, nobody is forced to live tied to the same historical design just because they have marked our generations. If one thing was good, it was the aesthetic innovation of the models, Reforged reinvented itself in terms of realistic style, only for the models I made a point of paying for the game. And they were wrong ... It was because they did not make even more models in this genre.
If you want HD models with the same standard footprint, you have had this option to import your WOW, Diablo, HOTS for many years in your Wc3 classic.
What we should complain about and none of you almost mention, is the landscape structure that also lacked being realistic, it maintained the same format of land and poor environmental accessories as the old one. On the one hand, they entered for a new aesthetic generation (models). On the other hand (environments), Blizzard missed it!

This reply is comical to me. so i'm going to respond to it comically.
Other then this "Have you changed the traditional design of Blizzard games? Okay." Which i just fail to understand and find it extremely confusing so i'll cut that part out. or maybe i won't i think i understand what was it meant to be.

As for your view on the models, Frankly i don't see why so much love, is any level of traditional Blizzard art even channeled in Reforged? Yes, But it changed for the worse. If on the one hand Reforged became more higher quality and detailed then say Hots. This difference fundamentally was a downgrade for the game. i much prefer counterparts like Hots or an upgraded version of the Warcraft 3 HD models from 2008 in terms of stylish cartoony style, then the Reforgeds visuals only changing things for the mindless reason of change without actually thinking why are they changing and if there is a legit reason that set change is superior and there is more reason behind it then just "Well we change it just because". Example of the Paladins, The faces look like real people. while Warcraft humans have always been somewhat more beefy and stylistic with their own charm. which is one of the main points of the game standing out compared to <Insert X generic Fantesy Universe Here>

I despise the drastic change in the visual style of an RTS, we are in a new generation, and it is best we make sure what kept the game look unique is transitioned, if we allow generic realistic takes with overblown armor to overtake the visual direction of the game then the games looks hardly any different from your generic fantesy genre. if one thing was good, it was the asthetic innovation of traditional Blizzard art and how they have managed to stand the test of time over and over. as i mentioned in the very last sentences of my original post "The Art of Ageless Graphics". Reforged regressed itself in terms of how Warcraft 3 or Warcraft in general should look. and there is hardly any evidence of innovation since there was no super dedicated art team and direction behind the game. all 3 of the original art directors had left. Brian Sousa took the project but left it halfway through. and Lemonsky made reddit posts saying the communication that was suppose to be there in terms of directing the art was always down to most of their work just getting free passes with hardly any critique which obviously points to the rushed development cycle of everything that had to do with Reforged.

If you want Realistic models within a pre established game with an iconic art style and graphics that point the opposite of realism, then i would suggest you're being unfair to anyone who loved the genre and was attracted to it because of set looks. because they got betrayed just for a new audience. if Blizzards goal was to swap audience, Reforged would be the perfect way to do it. but good luck trying to argue that it is reasonable or not. because it isn't. especially since most Blizzard games are always very long term value games that people stick with and get used to for years and years and years to come.

What we should complain about and none of you almost mention, is the fact that the vanilla games terrain and landscape have more variations thus they look more complex and cool. while Reforgeds terrain lost almost exactly half of its terrain variations compared to Vanilla and in some instances even less then half like tree variations. and for some reason people seem to think Reforged terrain looking the way it does is like Warcraft 3 Vanilla just because they are misinformed and have a bias image of what they want to believe in their heads of how Vanilla actually looks. But that doesn't change the fact that they entered in a new age of generic and samey generation for models. doubled by the realistic graphics and the games older engine which is already heavily struggling and suffering framerate issues to keep up with the new visual overhaul.

 

[SebioL]

Very realistic, big tall bodies, small heads and doll portraits.

deepstrasz,
Obviously, in some aspects, designers needed to leave some stylistic factor capable of adding more apparent projections in which they could approach fantasy or artistic drawings.
Reforged brought you something new to the nearest realism mixed with some drawn art.
Now you complain that he doesn't have pure realism ... So ... You make up your mind! After all, if it is to make it totally real, forget about graphic designers or any minor art. Put real people with armor in real sizes. Import first-person game models like MounteBlade or genres like TotalWar ..! You must be playing ... lolol

 

[deepstrasz]

Now you complain that he doesn't have pure realism

I don't care about that. It's not Warcraft. I didn't expect a movie instead of a remaster.
Even the remade intro looks horrible. The Grunts look more human than orc.

 

[SebioL]

This reply is comical to me. so i'm going to respond to it comically.
Other then this "Have you changed the traditional design of Blizzard games? Okay....new visual overhaul.

deepstrasz,
That's your taste! all right ... at least Blizzard gives you the possibility to import recent HD models. You should question the lack of greater compatibility with HOTS or other games, which you need, already exists in these, at least for the main characters.
But know that there are others who think differently and the stylistic reinvention work with Reforged was a proposal that pleased other interested parties.
YourArthas,
Storm Knight,
What's wrong with trying new trends? They created a different style on their own, even at the risk of a new generation not being interested or finding it terrible. The old generation already has its HD models in the same quality lineage. What sense does it make Reforged to do this just like the others? Is there a law prohibiting launching new styles?
There are already recent models of the Warcraft saga made by her in the same patterns in the same last years, you have the freedom to insert them in the classic itself.
I agree that there was a severe relapse in the quality of Doodads and other accessory elements environmentally, there was really a lack of goodwill and investing more to do a good part of the aggregate aspects of Reforged, this is a more constructive criticism and I agree to criticize more in these terms, but to criticize the models that were somehow well made, it is lack of common sense, it is not a question of them being bad, but a matter of merely preferences tastes.
To be honest, Blizzard had to innovate in some way and I believe that they have reinvented themselves in aesthetics and used Warcraft Reforged to present this new artistic generation, a pity that they only did to the models, forgetting the remaining landscaping.
Because if it were to remaster the Warcraft, putting only models of the same series in HD. You already have the Mod Rebirth in HD or even the HOTS, all of them with models in high quality graphics in the Blizzard standard, what sense for Reforged to repeat every game and still redo models in the standard style to what they have done recently in all others games in recent years? There are even dozens of MODs with their own fans creating models in the same patterns, why repeat that, if the only innovative thing about Reforged, were the different models?
So you want to tell me that the only innovative thing you wanted was just a better graphics engine, just that again ???
Rather than complaining about something new that she brought, just because she didn’t like it just for the sake of taste, they should care more about the lack of new or more different features.

 

[YourArthas]

YourArthas,
Storm Knight,

What's wrong with trying new trends? They just created a different style on their own even at risk for a new generation. Is there a law prohibiting launching new styles?
There are already recent models of the Warcraft saga made by her in the same patterns in the same last years, you have the freedom to insert them in the classic itself.
I agree that there was a severe relapse in the quality of Doodads and other accessory elements environmentally, there was really a lack of goodwill and investing more to do a good part of the aggregate aspects of Reforged, this is a more constructive criticism and I agree to criticize more in these terms, but to criticize the models that were somehow well made, it is lack of common sense, it is not a question of them being bad, but a matter of merely preferences tastes.
To be honest, Blizzard had to innovate in some way and I believe that they have reinvented themselves in aesthetics and used Warcraft Reforged to present this new artistic generation, a pity that they only did to the models, forgetting the remaining landscaping.
Because if it were to remaster the Warcraft, putting only models of the same series in HD. You already have the Mod Rebirth in HD or even the HOTS, all of them with models in high quality graphics in the Blizzard standard, what sense for Reforged to repeat every game and still redo models in the standard style to what they have done recently in all others games in recent years? There are even dozens of MODs with their own fans creating models in the same patterns, why repeat that, if the only innovative thing about Reforged, were the different models?
So you want to tell me that the only innovative thing you wanted was just a better graphics engine, just that again ???
Rather than complaining about something new that she brought, just because she didn’t like it just for the sake of taste, they should care more about the lack of new or more different features.

There is 'a law prohibiting launching new styles' it is called franchise, in this case which is named Warcraft. You can't go to McDonald's and expect a Dominos Pizza from them. You can't name a product Warcraft when it looks nothing like it. Reforged will never be Warcraft III as long as they do not remake the graphics as 'Warcraft III HD Remaster' sell it as a dlc or something I don't mind it but other than that it is not Warcraft III and not welcome to Warcraft Franchise

 

[SebioL]

There is 'a law prohibiting launching new styles' it is called franchise, in this case which is named Warcraft. You can't go to McDonald's and expect a Dominos Pizza from them. You can't name a product Warcraft when it looks nothing like it. Reforged will never be Warcraft III as long as they do not remake the graphics as 'Warcraft III HD Remaster' sell it as a dlc or something I don't mind it but other than that it is not Warcraft III and not welcome to Warcraft Franchise

The law may exist, but it is immoral, because Blizzard is a private initiative, it launches its games on its own if it doesn't please the public, what does the government have to do? Whoever loses audience will be herself. It does not force you to buy new proposals!
Blizzard is famous for its style. Okay, but who told you that everyone loves this crumpled style of dolls? Models Dwarf sized and face small? He's really interesting and even nostalgic. But there are people who want to see something new, even those who like what is traditional.
It is worth remembering that this style only existed in case you didn't know, because during the origin of the game, there was a need to implement these aspects due to the game needing to drastically compress the models so that they could work as an example of Warcraft II, these models are very original more because of historical equipment issues of the past decade. Smaller monitors, little space for palettes and not even Zoom you had, give thanks to Warcraft III still bringing that look. But nowadays, I see no obstacles in trying to experience a new experience and I was very pleased with the new models ...

 

[YourArthas]

You probably never heard the one that MADE Blizzard's whole art before Reforged Samwise Didier's interviews:

He explains why this style is the way and why they will not do Realistic stuff.

Here is the result when you write Warcraft :

Those are HD and up to date with good polygon counts (as much as Reforged's) and high quality textures (2048x2048) yet they are not shit like Reforged because they value the quality, style and are HAND PAINTED and not generated like Reforged. You can't expect something like this when the franchise is the thing shown above: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/57/43/5b/57435bfd63588bc8dfc1196dbe03cf9a.png


Note: Added the second image as a link so peoples eyes will not suffer

 

[deepstrasz]

That's your taste!

As is Reforged for the minority, I'm afraid. You don't make a game or good sales with minorities.
Also, after you rip all those models you mentioned AND add animations to them, we'll have this chat again. Until then, you don't have an argument. I'm not gonna learn modelling and buy model creation programs so I can satisfy your annoyance.

What's wrong with trying new trends?

It's wrong when you do it badly. I mean, take a look at WoW. I don't fancy it that much but compared to Reforged, it's way more Warcraft looking. Reforged looks good as its own game but sadly it's not. It's a huge visual patch to Warcraft III which doesn't need the Asian stereotype video game graphics. This only makes Reforged worse, not better since there's nothing special about the way it looks even if it does look good.

Because if it were to remaster the Warcraft, putting only models of the same series in HD. You already have the Mod Rebirth in HD or even the HOTS, all of them with models in high quality graphics in the Blizzard standard, what sense for Reforged to repeat every game and still redo models in the standard style to what they have done recently in all others games in recent years?

I don't know. What's the sense of Heroes of the Storm when there's DotA out there? It's not doing it exactly the same, that's what. So, a proper remastered would have worked wonders, not being the same as fans did and besides fans can't do top notch stuff due to lack of resources.

So you want to tell me that the only innovative thing you wanted was just a better graphics engine, just that again ???

This is not Warcraft IV dude, it's Warcraft III. Such an old game doesn't need stupid realist graphics.

Rather than complaining about something new that she brought, just because she didn’t like it just for the sake of taste, they should care more about the lack of new or more different features.

I think you should care for what you should do and stop telling others what they are to do.

 

[SebioL]

You probably never heard the one that MADE Blizzard's whole art before Reforged Samwise Didier's interviews:
Note: Added the second image as a link so peoples eyes will not suffer

You even become funny, I think it's very fair that you defend classic trends. I do not disapprove of it, after all, Warcraft has become a historical standard in this regard. But you still have recent, quality alternatives to add that to your new graphics engine.
And to be frank ... I don't like Voltaire ... but I will use his phrase:
"I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It"

 

[SebioL]

As is Reforged for the minority, I'm afraid.
I think you should care for what you should do and stop telling others what they are to do.

Do not say that you are relativizing, stating that the drop in sales is due to the models, is that you disregard all general criticisms that exist in Reforged. See Metacritic as the basis of most criticisms and even the criticisms of Youtubers are due to very general issues and not to the models themselves. As for the look, I see a lot of criticism for the scenery itself being the same and not so much the characters' arts.
If there is a big problem with Reforged models, it may be the high amount of details for modeling.

But we are not accommodated people, we will not maintain archaic patterns or regress just because we have evolved in the amount of polygonal or details. Each year we have even more sophisticated tools that facilitate, we ourselves must evolve even as humans in modeling, not be stagnant in banal things. Look at Autodesk platforms, MdlVis itself helps enough even for the most complex models.
HOTS was a way for Blizzard to try to get closer to DOTA that was bought by another franchise, which took advantage of it well. But at least HOTS served to provide us with better warcraft models than WOW.
I agree that if models were made in the standard style, they would be of better quality than HOTS, of course, but if you are not as demanding with realism, very high resolutions or as good definition as the current ones. I don't understand why you're not happy with the HD in other Blizz games ... I know it wasn't the intention to make Warcraft 4, but if it's Reforged, it makes sense to reinvent yourself in the characters. For me the stupid thing would be to repeat the same game and bring models with the same HOTS or WOW features. I wouldn't even buy the game, as it would be the same as having the Rebirth MOD models, only with an improved graphics engine, just inserting more shadders and lighting ...
What's that for? And I am not ordering you what to do, I am saying that you are complaining a lot about what would be the smallest focus. After all ... Making models in the standard Blizzard style, any modification goes back to the same classic pattern because they are simpler styles. Now complaining about leaks errors in the triggers, the flaw in the AI of the vessels, compatibility of import of the models themselves to release those of all Blizzard games and etc ... etc ... could be more profitable discussions for the Reforged.

 

[deepstrasz]

For me the stupid thing would be to repeat the same game and bring models with the same HOTS or WOW features.

It's the same regardless, a visual patch. The idea of buying one is stupid regardless. I don't care about Reforged for the graphics but for the lightening and editor enhancements. Anyways, since I don't like the models, I'll just stick to Classic and eventually when proper models would be made or ripped for it, I'll think about Reforged.
This has nothing to do with graphics evolution. This can be done retaining the Warcraft style.
What you see in Reforged is a repetition regardless of what you want to think. However, since it's a graphical remake, at least it should be consistent which is obviously not.

Please don't multipost.

 

[SebioL]

It's the same regardless, a visual patch. The idea of buying one is stupid regardless. I don't care about Reforged for the graphics but for the lightening and editor enhancements. Anyways, since I don't like the models, I'll just stick to Classic and eventually when proper models would be made or ripped for it, I'll think about Reforged.
Please don't multipost.

Yes, in the end we will always end up in the same discussion. Creating apologies only for individual tastes ...
What matters most would be the Reforged to add a more improved graphics engine. But I think that the community will adapt well to making MODs both at the Reforged level and for the old standards due to the texture issue being more varied for this new engine, but that the community adapts quickly ... I see that the only good excuse for the improvements are so scarce, maybe it's because the classic Warcraft has a very complete WorldEditor even for today's games. But that does not exempt Blizzard from reinventing itself even more to the resources of its Editor, it still seems to be just a big patch only ...

 

[StormKnight]

Since i enjoy your comical commentary i'll continue with my comical responses.

deepstrasz,
That's your taste! all right ... at least Blizzard gives you the possibility to import recent HD models. You should question the lack of greater compatibility with HOTS or other games, which you need, already exists in these, at least for the main characters.
But know that there are others who think differently and the stylistic reinvention work with Reforged was a proposal that pleased other interested parties.
YourArthas,
Storm Knight,
What's wrong with trying new trends? They created a different style on their own, even at the risk of a new generation not being interested or finding it terrible. The old generation already has its HD models in the same quality lineage. What sense does it make Reforged to do this just like the others? Is there a law prohibiting launching new styles?
There are already recent models of the Warcraft saga made by her in the same patterns in the same last years, you have the freedom to insert them in the classic itself.
I agree that there was a severe relapse in the quality of Doodads and other accessory elements environmentally, there was really a lack of goodwill and investing more to do a good part of the aggregate aspects of Reforged, this is a more constructive criticism and I agree to criticize more in these terms, but to criticize the models that were somehow well made, it is lack of common sense, it is not a question of them being bad, but a matter of merely preferences tastes.
To be honest, Blizzard had to innovate in some way and I believe that they have reinvented themselves in aesthetics and used Warcraft Reforged to present this new artistic generation, a pity that they only did to the models, forgetting the remaining landscaping.
Because if it were to remaster the Warcraft, putting only models of the same series in HD. You already have the Mod Rebirth in HD or even the HOTS, all of them with models in high quality graphics in the Blizzard standard, what sense for Reforged to repeat every game and still redo models in the standard style to what they have done recently in all others games in recent years? There are even dozens of MODs with their own fans creating models in the same patterns, why repeat that, if the only innovative thing about Reforged, were the different models?
So you want to tell me that the only innovative thing you wanted was just a better graphics engine, just that again ???
Rather than complaining about something new that she brought, just because she didn’t like it just for the sake of taste, they should care more about the lack of new or more different features.

The law may exist, but it is immoral, because Blizzard is a private initiative, it launches its games on its own if it doesn't please the public, what does the government have to do? Whoever loses audience will be herself. It does not force you to buy new proposals!
Blizzard is famous for its style. Okay, but who told you that everyone loves this crumpled style of dolls? Models Dwarf sized and face small? He's really interesting and even nostalgic. But there are people who want to see something new, even those who like what is traditional.
It is worth remembering that this style only existed in case you didn't know, because during the origin of the game, there was a need to implement these aspects due to the game needing to drastically compress the models so that they could work as an example of Warcraft II, these models are very original more because of historical equipment issues of the past decade. Smaller monitors, little space for palettes and not even Zoom you had, give thanks to Warcraft III still bringing that look. But nowadays, I see no obstacles in trying to experience a new experience and I was very pleased with the new models ...

That's your taste! all right... at least there are hundreds of different games with aww inspiring realistic graphics with cutting edge tech. you should question the lack of compatibility with Reforged as a game compared to Vanilla Warcraft 3. and to broader Blizzard art.

But you know that there are others who think differently and the realistic reinvention work with Reforged was an abject betrayal that ditched already interested people for little to no reason. now those people are left with nothing and importing other HD material from other areas is hardly any option because hardly anyone has the skill to do it and it will make map sizes go above the 255 limit. and maps above 120 MB already struggle with performance issues in multiplayer.

What's wrong with preserving existing trends especially when they are good ? and doubly especially when its happening to an existing product instead of a sequel ? x) they created a different art style on their own, even if it meant ditching and risking their existing fanbase and most certainly because there was hardly any direction that was given to the art. since main art leader left halfway through and second one was not as experienced. The old generation has nothing in terms of HD models. non of it is hardly of any use. since no one knows how to "rip" them and the ones that exist can pile up map sizes to unreasonable levels. What sense does it make for Reforged going for a new style when they aren't even working on a new game. or new sequel. only deciding for some random reason that it is okay to trash and shit no what existed before and make 180* turn and utterly betray existing visual concepts.

I agree that there was severe increase in model detail and polygon numbers, i'm sure Lemonsky artists were also very talented in their work since they proved it time and time again. but to defend the models that were somehow piss poor, it is lack of common sense. it is not a question of it being good, but a matter of it being a remaster of an existing game with a pre established artistic goal. and the fact that Warcraft 3 is an RTS game. Reforged models are made for RPGs. that's why they dont' belong in the game in the first place. let alone the complete betrayal of existing ingame visual concepts.

To be honest, Blizzard hardly gave little if any attention to the overhaul of this entire project its very self evident. and only falsely advertised something they knew it was wrong in so many ways and they knew they couldn't even keep their promise and used Warcraft 3 Vanillas nostalgia as an excuse to cash in on loyal fans. a pity all the good CEO's and art directors since Starcraft 1 left so Reforged got the wrong end of the stick.

Because if it were to simply to a standard Remaster following the games art style closely it would have been just as successful as Starcraft 1. the transition of existing map makers work to the new era of higherquality yet faithful visuals would have catapulted the game in a new age of prosperity, not to mention the amount of time that will be saved as people wouldn't have to go dig and see if they can find and how they should rip other models or use mods. And since the visual overhaul would not be as demanding as the current one, the Classic Team would have fared astronomically better in optimizing the game.
What sense does it make for Reforged to abandon the visuals that carried them for 15 years. and still continuing to do so, no other company is even trying for any sort of "unique" visuals but Blizzard and their franchises have the benefit of years of perfecting existing visuals only to turn their back on it. its like investing your money in a flaming truck that's about to crash.

Blizzard may do whatever they wish with their product. but they are a privet initiative. they take the risk for a chance at the public to accept them. and they did. they ran with it for 15 years because of the people who supported them, then you defend them because they turn their back on those people.

Blizzards art has some issues, okay, but who told you everyone loves this realistic generic look of the Reforged models ? there are people that like to see the looks of the old game preserved even if they might not have the most massive of issues with the new looks.

Its worth remembering that this style only existed in case you didn't know, because during the origin of the game, there was a need to implement these aspects due to the game needing to drastically take a different rout from all the generic visuals of its own time like Lord of the Rings realistic visuals so that they could engender a new and unique visuals, one that stands out from many of the times same old same old concepts. But nowdays, i see no obstacles in trying to preserve the existing experience and i was and still am very displeased with the new models.

Yes, in the end we will always end up in the same discussion. Creating apologies only for individual tastes ...
What matters most would be the Reforged to add a more improved graphics engine. But I think that the community will adapt well to making MODs both at the Reforged level and for the old standards due to the texture issue being more varied for this new engine, but that the community adapts quickly ... I see that the only good excuse for the improvements are so scarce, maybe it's because the classic Warcraft has a very complete WorldEditor even for today's games. But that does not exempt Blizzard from reinventing itself even more to the resources of its Editor, it still seems to be just a big patch only ...

Yes, in the end we will always end up in the same discussion, creating apologies for a factually known mismanaged visual overhaul that people try to defend and say it is only a matter of opinion and that Blizzard knew what they were doing when there is example after example that the project of Reforged was literally anything besides Blizzard knowing what they were doing.

What matters most would be the Reforged to fix the existing games huge functionality and net code issues instead of trying to push visuals that are too tough to handle for an old engine. but i think that the community will suffer a lot because of the damage that's already done and people like you suggesting even more focus be put on the needless graphical overhaul.

 

[SebioL]

Since i enjoy your comical commentary i'll continue with my comical responses.
That's your taste! all right... at least there are hundreds of different games with aww inspiring realistic graphics with cutting edge tech. you should question the lack of compatibility with Reforged as a game compared to Vanilla Warcraft 3. and to broader Blizzard art...

Sarcasm is very funny, but to convince the contrary that it is the good thing! Nothing ... I am saddened by you, since your crying will not justify Blizzard for being wrong for creating something innovative or forbidding its attempt to remodel the game with new themes! If Reforged is not working, at least you only help to strengthen the certainty that the models are not the real problem of the majority and are by far the main target of criticism of the new warcraft.
Nobody has the capacity to modify the greatness of Warcraft units ... So you will disregard even the teams of modellers of Ascención HD, Reborn, SonS, remastering of the Chinese and a multitude of others that will emerge mainly for traditional themes,
they didn't stop doing jobs for the current one just because you think!

You also do not need to overload the size of your maps to modify everything individually via imports, there will be possibilities for full modification of all models by the root folder in the original. That excuse of yours sounds like a spoiled child. Definitely, new models do not interfere with your historical experience, you have and will still have options for what you always wanted and today Blizzard only gave space to those who also want something different.

 

[deepstrasz]

You also do not need to overload the size of your maps to modify everything individually via imports, there will be possibilities for full modification of all models by the root folder in the original.

Citation needed.
Currently because we don't have .mpq files anymore, that is pretty much impossible for most people.
Also, people are reluctant to altering their game files. They prefer maps.

 

[YourArthas]

Sarcasm is very funny, but to convince the contrary that it is the good thing! Nothing ... I am saddened by you, since your crying will not justify Blizzard for being wrong for creating something innovative or forbidding its attempt to remodel the game with new themes! If Reforged is not working, at least you only help to strengthen the certainty that the models are not the real problem of the majority and are by far the main target of criticism of the new warcraft.
Nobody has the capacity to modify the greatness of Warcraft units ... So you will disregard even the teams of modellers of Ascención HD, Reborn, SonS, remastering of the Chinese and a multitude of others that will emerge mainly for traditional themes,
they didn't stop doing jobs for the current one just because you think!

You also do not need to overload the size of your maps to modify everything individually via imports, there will be possibilities for full modification of all models by the root folder in the original. That excuse of yours sounds like a spoiled child. Definitely, new models do not interfere with your historical experience, you have and will still have options for what you always wanted and today Blizzard only gave space to those who also want something different.

Models are the direct target of the criticism, Reforged does not do anything else other than remaking models, it should do it right it is a 'remaster' not a new game or 'remake', Reforged's promise of remastering graphics is the huge failure specific to Reforged. Other stuff are global fuck ups of patch 1.32 which affects both classic and Reforged.

The main critic of 'Reforged' will always be graphics as long as they don't remake them.

Other critics are about patch 1.32 not Reforged.

 

[deepstrasz]

The main critic of 'Reforged' will always be graphics as long as they don't remake them.

Exactly. The game should have been stable on release with none of its features missing.
SebioL wants us to beat a dead horse instead.

 

[SebioL]

Citation needed.
Currently because we don't have .mpq files anymore...

deepstrasz,
Partner, we model lovers ... we need it! Do you think I'm not in the battle for that, pleading with Blizzard to extract the folders? So I said that we can do it, in the near future ... For even if not for Blizzard, but for breakers in the future, inevitably this will be available sooner or later for singleplayer users ... At the very least!
I am part of a South American group of individual modelers, we have infinite GB's of models for warcraft of every type of game. Modeling and animating all extensions .FBX, Ms3D, DAE, 3DS, SketchUP, .OBJ and etc ... we place orders for free on our social network to animate any polygon of any game for simple models of the classic WC3 to fans.
youarthas,
Just what I want you to understand, I think that Reforged is not a bad proposal for just making changes to the models... even if that change is not a unanimously applauded change. Whereas WC3 has always been free to modify. But that it is bad for just redoing the models, as a unique innovation ... Even if the new models for me and many friends, it is a welcome and beneficial change. Did you understand the logic? Considering that if you just accelerate the graphics engine, but do not change the style of the models in relation to all the models that we already know from Blizzard, you do not make innovations in the game engine (example of animation: Stand Hit- it could already exist in Reforged, even if it was just animating, but not changing the gameplay), not adding significant features or any minimal innovation, this will not be a reform in any respect, it will be all the same even more... It would be much worse. There would be nothing to do, just add more refined graphics technology, what would be the most interesting thing about a new reforged wacraft, that also couldn't be done with just a new patch? Regarding the features that Reforged offered? nothing friend.

 

[deepstrasz]

Partner, we model lovers ... we need it! Do you think I'm not in the battle for that, pleading with Blizzard to extract the folders? So I said that we can do it, in the near future ... For even if not for Blizzard, but for breakers in the future, inevitably this will be available sooner or later for singleplayer users ... At the very least!

Ah, so you still want others to do the dirty work.
Well, know that all that might soon end as Retera's Warmash will overwrite this Reforged impostor.

There would be nothing to do, just add more refined graphics technology, what would be the most interesting thing about a new reforged wacraft, that also couldn't be done with just a new patch? Regarding the features that Reforged offered? nothing friend.

You're missing the point. The graphics can still be top notch but keeping the Warcraft style. For modding, it doesn't matter since you'd use your own models anyway. You only need a proper engine upgrade for that.

 

[StormKnight]

Sarcasm is very funny, but to convince the contrary that it is the good thing! Nothing ... I am saddened by you, since your crying will not justify Blizzard for being wrong for creating something innovative or forbidding its attempt to remodel the game with new themes! If Reforged is not working, at least you only help to strengthen the certainty that the models are not the real problem of the majority and are by far the main target of criticism of the new warcraft.
Nobody has the capacity to modify the greatness of Warcraft units ... So you will disregard even the teams of modellers of Ascención HD, Reborn, SonS, remastering of the Chinese and a multitude of others that will emerge mainly for traditional themes,
they didn't stop doing jobs for the current one just because you think!

You also do not need to overload the size of your maps to modify everything individually via imports, there will be possibilities for full modification of all models by the root folder in the original. That excuse of yours sounds like a spoiled child. Definitely, new models do not interfere with your historical experience, you have and will still have options for what you always wanted and today Blizzard only gave space to those who also want something different.

So, since i played a little game with you and it worked to prove how you actually behave and how all of your arguments can validly be said in the same way except pointing towards the opposite. i'll now legitimately try and tell how i think about this situation and how i think when you talk to me, and do keep in mind i'm not trying to force down anything on you. this was self evident in my large post titled "My 2 cents on Reforgeds Graphical Overhaul".

I'll start with mentioning that you should try to improve your English slightly. please. and i'm not trying to pull a "hah i got you" moment here.

"but to convince the contrary that it is the good thing! Nothing" << This doesn't make sense to me, seriously. i can't understand what are you trying to say here. the only thing i'll say about this is that no one is trying to convince you anything, infact i'm okay with anyone that loves the route in which Reforged has taken for a graphical overhaul its obvious some people are going to like it and its foolish for me to try and convince them otherwise.
But you are acting exactly how you assume i am, which i'm not. you keep trying to "convince" me that some how i should "accept" this. i'm sorry but the moment you try to force me to accept what you happen to love is where you lose this argument.

When " I " entered and wrote my big post at first. i did it in the intend of feedback and what i personally thought. and all i got from you is "no you don't deserve anything and you should "Accept" this with open arms because here are some irrelevant things i pointed out". that's you this entire time. telling others to shut up and accept because you completely lack any level of understanding and care of how this situation was first created. and how your solutions are worthless.

I am saddened by you, since your crying will not justify Blizzard for being wrong for creating something innovative or forbidding its attempt to remodel the game with new themes! If Reforged is not working, at least you only help to strengthen the certainty that the models are not the real problem of the majority and are by far the main target of criticism of the new warcraft.

If Blizzard creates art A for Warcraft 3. then decides to remaster it and instead of creating art A 2.0 they create art B. i have every reason to be upset because it affected me and it affected why i got into the game in the first place. the whole point of a remaster is to preserve what existed before and simply transition it into a modern era. instead of dumping it and going for something different. that's something you do with a sequel not a remake. if you even care to try to understand where i'm coming from instead of always trying to push your opinion maybe you can relate.

Nobody has the capacity to modify the greatness of Warcraft units ... So you will disregard even the teams of modellers of Ascención HD, Reborn, SonS, remastering of the Chinese and a multitude of others that will emerge mainly for traditional themes,
they didn't stop doing jobs for the current one just because you think

I consider hardly any of those traditional themes and none of them are in any stage of completion nor do i want "mods". if you want me to follow your logic then Reforged should go the way i want because for people like you the Quenching mod exists which is trying to be as realistic as the 2018 counterpart. so therefore your entire argument is irrelevant and Blizzard did the right job and made a faithful remaster.
You see how stupid you sound ?

You also do not need to overload the size of your maps to modify everything individually via imports, there will be possibilities for full modification of all models by the root folder in the original. That excuse of yours sounds like a spoiled child. Definitely, new models do not interfere with your historical experience, you have and will still have options for what you always wanted and today Blizzard only gave space to those who also want something different

Look, for the 100th time, trying to reason "Alternative" options as a solution to a problem i have with the "Main" product is going to sound stupid no matter how many times you keep saying it. I don't consider any of those "Mods" as viable for what " I " was expecting. put me in your shooes for once.

Blizzard did a faithful remaster. and you wanted realism. so would it sound fair if i told you have no right to complain about the decisions of Blizzard because you have other options for realism ? no.

And you seem to have a hard time trying accept the fact that Blizzard created something completely different. and you also seem to think for some reason a regular player that has problems with this should shut up and accept it because there are Mods. and Blizzard did a new take that you happened to love.

Your arguments do not sound like arguments anymore, they only sound like you trying to push and brush aside everything and everyone that happens to disagree with the visual overhaul of the game. you are so insecure about it when in reality what's done is already done. there are people like me providing critique and Blizzard is never going to take what's already given away from you. but no you still feel the need to come here, insult the visuals of a game that people enjoyed for 18 years and claim that Blizzard knew what they were doing and we should all accept it. and use Mods if we don't like it.

I'll repeat myself with this issue one last time. The reason you got Warcraft 3 Reforged with whatever visuals it has now, is because from the start the company decided to spend the budget they were willing to spare for the project on overtly ambitious visuals instead of the functionality and integrity of the game we all love so much. had Blizzard taken an example from Sc1 or Age of Empires 2 or C&C Remastered. they would have done a very standard remaster of visuals and spent the rest of their time, budget and effort on delivering a quality product to the consumers.

But that's what a "The best possible outcome" its not the reality. the reality is what we have now. and nobody knows what Blizzard is going to do. Reforged is Realistic. and you love it. and that's great. you should continue loving it. and stop trying to fight with others who comment on their distaste towards the results because ultimately none of the people who critique are going to come and replace or somehow take away what's already done.

The method in which you are arguing is only viable if Reforged was still taking feedback as to where to take the art. and not people raising distaste towards what's already done. and is never going to be undone.

 

[SebioL]

Ah, so you still want others to do the dirty work.
Well, know that all that might soon end as Retera's Warmash will overwrite this Reforged impostor.

You're missing the point. The graphics can still be top notch but keeping the Warcraft style. For modding, it doesn't matter since you'd use your own models anyway. You only need a proper engine upgrade for that.

You have a hard time understanding things friend.
I am not asking you if the models that exist are the best or if they are the worst to make an evaluation of the inserted proposal. I don't want other people to do dirty work.
I want this possibility to be released, because it must be released. This must be available. I bought the game and not the real and unique image of the game, I must be free to modify them at the root even if it is for personal use. This block is even a steal, because you would be stating that I bought an artificial image, not available for full modification by myself, since I already bought this image to do what I should do and how I want.

As for the graphic aspects of models, I will not return to the subject ...There have been many debates about this already.

Cavaleiro da tempestade,
I think that sometimes I am too verbose, I can be misinterpreted. I'm sorry if I wanted to make it clear that you have to agree that the models are better and that your defense against the old ones is inadequate.
I am Brazilian, I do not speak English, the forum is private, there are rules to be respected, so I am obliged to work in your language.
But I do not intend to change opinions at all, and that is exactly what I do not want in relation to those who defend the new proposal of models offered in Reforged.
What I try to convey is that despite finding a good idea or that I and many friends of mine are pleased, the models are nowhere near the main change that Reforged needed, besides the new graphic mechanics inserted, I don't see anything relevant that any patch in the 2002 game couldn't do.
Only the models, there seems to be some artist who did a dedicated job on everything and worked hard to achieve this new aesthetic. In fact, it won't please everyone, but it changed something that was different, just in relation to changes in the graphics engine.

You are right to state that there are losses due to the lack of a commitment to the traditional theme, I just stated that you have additional options for this (although the MPQ functionality does not yet exist for major modifications). As well as I understand the frustration that you must go through in maybe you cannot have the same pleasant feeling that I have in having the new models, which for you the work could be spent to make something even more attractive than the current HOTS within all classic patterns.

 

[deepstrasz]

I must be free to modify them at the root even if it is for personal use.

Wrong. You are sharing a license, nothing more. You do not own the game once you buy it. You are not allowed to modify it, in reality. If they are closing their eyes to it because the community helps advertise and keep the game alive further, that's another thing.
What you do in private is also quite irrelevant since we are talking about being an open community sharing time with the game. It's not about going underground, or on the black market.

I think that sometimes I am too verbose, I can be misinterpreted. I'm sorry if I wanted to make it clear that you have to agree that the models are better and that your defense against the old ones is inadequate.

!? This has nothing to do with the brute comparison between the old models and the new ones. We're talking about a proper remaster considering the graphics of today. And overall, the artistic style which is not Warcraft, it's a kitsch.

I am Brazilian, I do not speak English, the forum is private, there are rules to be respected, so I am obliged to work in your language.

Well then, why do you think that only we are misunderstanding you and not the other way around?

 

[SebioL]

Wrong. You are sharing a license, nothing more. You do not own the game once you buy it. You are not allowed to modify it, in reality. If they are closing their eyes to it because the community helps advertise and keep the game alive further, that's another thing.

Well then, why do you think that only we are misunderstanding you and not the other way around?

As for the licenses, I may be wrong because I didn't waste time reading the Reforged contract. I know there was a lot of limitation by Blizzard, especially because it is after financial resources and wants to repress new users who can take advantage of it.
but in my opinion, i think i bought the game in full, i must have freedom and access to all root files to fully modify its base. Not only having a limited import feature to an extremely smaller size compared to the total base loaded by the game.
It must not be easy to have to deal with something different. I understand that for me it is beneficial and well regarded.
I do not deny the frustration that you must go through for not having news that follow the old standards. You can actually deny the new proposal. But at least you know the graphic designer you were buying before launching. Since we are going to judge here what is within the legality.
Understanding of interpretations there will be flaws for both situations, it is evident, after all, I may also not be getting the proper translation from the converter.

 

[kantarion]

Everyone who thinks that community (whos present here since day one) is opened for new weird trendy things that has nothing to do with Warcraft 3 RTS is making huge mistake by trying to proove something here. In your eyes we are some toxic fanatics or sometihing, but i will tell you now. Do not dare to implement some democracy here with bombs droping on our heads sir , no NATO philisophy here is welcomed.

We do not have any interest, we are not on any blizzard pay list, we are not payed to spread propaganda of billionaire company and convince people in something they dont want at all.

We are waiting remaster for over 15 years , and during the period you abandonan us we created marvelous things alone.

What blizzard did is they butchered art designs, delete originals and replace with something we do not want.

This game is having too much powerfull potential (they made moba and mobile games out of its custom games) so that blizzard can behave to it like this.

The starting philosophy of Reforged is wrong and it delete original designs FOREVER and replace it with some suspicious designs that reminds to world of warcraft or hots, but some are outside blizzard universe totaly.

It would be far more productive if they sticked to faitfull design aka remaster + bonus things.

This way everyone would be happy.

I declare my self as advanced purist. I like having city of lordaeron buidlings,silvermoon, its environment etc. More bridges more and more awesome thing.

What i cant understand is : Why the hell they gave us buzzcut paladin and deleting old design in high poly version.

This is called brutal force. Give me the god damn high poly version of war3hd-sc2 in reforged, then make a god damn variations.

Variations that will be based on purist paladin from wc3 udnerstand ? Not some random dudes

Respecting the proportions ofc.

And dont tell me that this is blury and reforged is super clean crisp etc.

Because what i talk here is ART DESIGN and not which model format is superior or not.

Cause this is without shaders and its x100 times better than Reforged designs

 

[Juveqis]

Everyone who thinks that community (whos present here since day one) is opened for new weird trendy things that has nothing to do with Warcraft 3 RTS is making huge mistake by trying to proove something here. In your eyes we are some toxic fanatics or sometihing, but i will tell you now. Do not dare to implement some democracy here with bombs droping on our heads sir , no NATO philisophy here is welcomed.

We do not have any interest, we are not on any blizzard pay list, we are not payed to spread propaganda of billionaire company and convince people in something they dont want at all.

We are waiting remaster for over 15 years , and during the period you abandonan us we created marvelous things alone.

What blizzard did is they butchered art designs, delete originals and replace with something we do not want.

This game is having too much powerfull potential (they made moba and mobile games out of its custom games) so that blizzard can behave to it like this.

The starting philosophy of Reforged is wrong and it delete original designs FOREVER and replace it with some suspicious designs that reminds to world of warcraft or hots, but some are outside blizzard universe totaly.

It would be far more productive if they sticked to faitfull design aka remaster + bonus things.

This way everyone would be happy.

I declare my self as advanced purist. I like having city of lordaeron buidlings,silvermoon, its environment etc. More bridges more and more awesome thing.

What i cant understand is : Why the hell they gave us buzzcut paladin and deleting old design in high poly version.

This is called brutal force. Give me the god damn high poly version of war3hd-sc2 in reforged, then make a god damn variations.

Variations that will be based on purist paladin from wc3 udnerstand ? Not some random dudes

Respecting the proportions ofc.

And dont tell me that this is blury and reforged is super clean crisp etc.

Because what i talk here is ART DESIGN and not which model format is superior or not.

Cause this is without shaders and its x100 times better than Reforged designs

Well said, although I'm afraid they refuse to accept the truth, don't waste any more time on them.

 

[SebioL]

Everyone who thinks that community (whos present here since day one) is opened for new weird trendy things that has nothing to do with Warcraft 3 RTS is making huge mistake by trying to proove something here. In your eyes we are some toxic fanatics or sometihing, but i will tell you now. Do not dare to implement some democracy here with bombs droping on our heads sir , no NATO philisophy here is welcomed...

Okay, I understand your dissatisfaction. It could have been something closer to the same things as always. I understand the historical factor and how important it is to the community, although WC3 is not just about graphics and that for many this new proposal is very welcome. But we are not going to generalize. As for humans, there is even this change with greater aggravation, but for the rest, we cannot be dishonest. There were no changes as relevant to standards in general with all races, perhaps some Orcs and some specific models. If you go to see, the Creeps remained very close not only to the design, but also to the old proportions.
But look at Uther. It is even in the same format as the armor of the HOTS versions, it is almost a faithful copy of the old models.
Only a few more details were added and the size increased to realistic proportions.
Very good to know that for you and so for many others, the MOD SC2 and HOTS versions are better enough than the current models. That's right with new ones using shaders. At least, the community already has countless good options to create within a new graphics engine.
And I who support new proposals, with newcomers who also praised the new ones, we have this nice version.
But do not think that I am against the old version, I liked it and for many years I identified myself, but if there are proposals for new models, I will always be in favor for more, including supporting old versions if there is any investment for a pack with new units and textures to her.

 

[kantarion]

Creeps are not even close to be faitfull to original. While on humans main problem are proportions.
Also,i would add that whole artfeedback about models was deleted on forums,and i would need here to demonstrate that your are being highly flexibile and not rly caring for the art, but still you are being very agressive to proove your point which is wrong.

Sadly i dont have strenght to search for my prooves, also i wasted my precious time to make this just because of you.

Note that i am not modeler,and that is just work of my passion edit.

About Uther Design ofc it will be WoW or Hots alike , cause it cant be just default paladin.
Still his proportions are like hes from some asian mobile game.

Also, there are ways to skip dwarfy proportions and super realistic proportions too. And find some middle

1.Reforged proportions 2.Mine edit 3. Heroes of the Storm

Sir, you dont have any idea how much artfeedback i sent to Kam and on forums. Now you are asking me to waste my enery with you again

Do u see how small the head is in Reforged mode.

Do you know why reforged armor looks HUGE ? Because heads are small and base body are weak junkys.

WHILE obviously in real time, the biggest size of armor as you can see is HOTS ONE.

And how the hell i dont complain about it. Because general proportions and parts are synced.

You cant go tall think junky base body thin proportion with super small head for RTS game with armor that just appears to be super huge because of small heads and other thin parts.


ITS A GOD DAMN RTS!

But i was so kind for you today to become a fuking modeler while i am tile maker

 

[StormKnight]

Glorious PBR models, pathetic. always dependent on ingame graphics. this was not the way for Warcraft 3's visual overhaul.

 

[kantarion]

Glorious PBR models, pathetic. always dependent on ingame graphics. this was not the way for Warcraft 3's visual overhaul.

Yep...And renders doesnt work well enough. Shading is ultra weak.

Not to mention that terrain render not working, until they fix and align uv base tile, deal with normals.

Maybe increase polycounts for terrain and cliff after that if possible... Maybe those changes would bring brush feature to editor - not sure about that but...

Surely those things would open gates for wc3 to become modern.

 

[SebioL]

Creeps are not even close to be faitfull to original. While on humans main problem are proportions.
Also,i would add that whole artfeedback about models was deleted on forums,and i would need here to demonstrate that your are being highly flexibile and not rly caring for the art, but still you are being very agressive to proove your point which is wrong.
1.Reforged proportions 2.Mine edit 3. Heroes of the Storm ...

The terrains issue can still be well debated and easily adjusted in new patch's. I am a great critic of the terrains. But as for the models, unfortunately I foresee little or no chance of changes on the part of the entrepreneur. The community is left with such a feat. Especially because they require more investments than simple adjustments. I care about art, believe it or not. I participated very little in the initial debates of Reforged, but I believe that the art of the designer itself ... is not the big problem. There was much praise for the new designer. You can see that just making a simple resizing of certain parts of the new Reforged model (adjusting head, armor, some parts of the body) is already quite compatible with previous versions. This can be an idea for an upcoming MOD, nothing that is so difficult and even easily adaptable to new textures.
But in addition to the proportion of the body becoming more realistic, it displeased the vast majority, I see that the armor got heavier and these, yes, caused the greatest strangeness of the public, without a doubt ...
If you see a Footman for example, it appears to have the armor of a main hero ...
Although it's not bad for me. In my opinion, I realize that the heavier armor is even a way of styling more within this implanted realism and contributing to look more like a fantasy game. because with humans in real sizes and the armor also following the same concept, it wouldn't make any sense.
In contrast to my praise for the Reforged ... reducing the models to sizes as in HOTS, it makes sense to decrease the armor, becoming very presentable ... as in traditional patterns. Your modified Uther is a good idea for modifications directly to the original base of the Reforged models.
Less badly his appearance as the physiognomy still remained Western. At least we can still modify the Reforged models themselves based on proportions and idealize them in traditional patterns.
Because the Chinese community had a lot of influence on the new models without a doubt, after all, the warcraft market is quite large there. We should be thankful that at least they didn't make faces like Asians, did Arthas or all the Paladins think with an anime face in the style of the Knights of the Zodiacs? It would be the end of the world! Lol

 

[kantarion]

The terrains issue can still be well debated and easily adjusted in new patch's. I am a great critic of the terrains. But as for the models, unfortunately I foresee little or no chance of changes on the part of the entrepreneur. The community is left with such a feat. Especially because they require more investments than simple adjustments. I care about art, believe it or not. I participated very little in the initial debates of Reforged, but I believe that the art of the designer itself ... is not the big problem. There was much praise for the new designer. You can see that just making a simple resizing of certain parts of the new Reforged model (adjusting head, armor, some parts of the body) is already quite compatible with previous versions. This can be an idea for an upcoming MOD, nothing that is so difficult and even easily adaptable to new textures.
But in addition to the proportion of the body becoming more realistic, it displeased the vast majority, I see that the armor got heavier and these, yes, caused the greatest strangeness of the public, without a doubt ...
If you see a Footman for example, it appears to have the armor of a main hero ...
Although it's not bad for me. In my opinion, I realize that the heavier armor is even a way of styling more within this implanted realism and contributing to look more like a fantasy game. because with humans in real sizes and the armor also following the same concept, it wouldn't make any sense.
In contrast to my praise for the Reforged ... reducing the models to sizes as in HOTS, it makes sense to decrease the armor, becoming very presentable ... as in traditional patterns. Your modified Uther is a good idea for modifications directly to the original base of the Reforged models.
Less badly his appearance as the physiognomy still remained Western. At least we can still modify the Reforged models themselves based on proportions and idealize them in traditional patterns.
Because the Chinese community had a lot of influence on the new models without a doubt, after all, the warcraft market is quite large there. We should be thankful that at least they didn't make faces like Asians, did Arthas or all the Paladins think with an anime face in the style of the Knights of the Zodiacs? It would be the end of the world! Lol

Arthas face is directly asian anime. What is not anime for example is knight face

Little reminder about designs, and how warcraft 3 reforged lost classic spirit and turned into something generic

I am kinda done arguing with you.

You see you can not cheat China because they are working and trading nation. They are not emotional like us, they are cold and rational : The product is nowhere near what was advertised.

Theres no crying about will you fix it, there are no blizzard advocates saying have a patience they will fix. Game is out, its a bad product that cost alot. End of the story

综合讨论区-《魔兽争霸III：重制版》官方论坛

客户服务区-《魔兽争霸III：重制版》官方论坛

Reforged is a bad product. End of the story

Warcraft III: Reforged

 

[StormKnight]

Arthas face is directly asian anime. What is not anime for example is knight face

Little reminder about designs, and how warcraft 3 reforged lost classic spirit and turned into something generic

I am kinda done arguing with you.

You see you can not cheat China because they are working and trading nation. They are not emotional like us, they are cold and rational : The product is nowhere near what was advertised.

Theres no crying about will you fix it, there are no blizzard advocates saying have a patience they will fix. Game is out, its a bad product that cost alot. End of the story

综合讨论区-《魔兽争霸III：重制版》官方论坛

客户服务区-《魔兽争霸III：重制版》官方论坛

Reforged is a bad product. End of the story

Warcraft III: Reforged

Yep, and this guy is here telling its not Asian inspired. look a the Pandas, look at the faces of units and heros and their icons. sigh.

Blizzard didn't even make this game for us, they made it for China. and it is self evident. they got visuals tweaked in their favor, art and design tweaked in their favor. special teenmod for them. they got news sooner then us and probably still do, they got exclusive collectors edition.

This game wasn't made realistic because developers and the new art team had a grand imagination. it was done to market to China XD
This is soo overwhelmingly obvious i'm at shock that he keeps thinking this is some new idea to change and advance.

The damn project was half assed, the inhouse visual art director left midway through. new one was inexperienced. Lemonsky went to Reddit saying they got hardly any feedback to change models they were all quickly passed one after another.

My man, the new visuals are not the result of set in stone goals, its the result of no goals and only doing the cheapest and most easiest way to market the game and get money off of.

PBR based realistic models mightaswell be renamed to "Anti Warcraft 3 Models" when inside the context of the game. how hard do we need to explain ourselves ? this is depressing.

 

[Footman16]

You see you can not cheat China because they are working and trading nation. They are not emotional like us, they are cold and rational : The product is nowhere near what was advertised.

You're obviously very angry about all this but at this point, you're not really adding anything constructive in terms of the artistic feedback other than its Anime/Chinese/bad which is simplistic, racist and just plain wrong.

If they were really pandering to China there'd be no skeletons in the game or bones showing, which... is not the case. Also I've no idea what makes you think the Chinese are robots who are "cold and rational" whilst we are "emotional", this is just bizarre tbh.

Slightly more on topic I've noticed clipping issues with a few models whilst editing them, the Captain and Knight model in particular caught my attention but there may be more; the clipping issue is hard to solve due to the animations not giving much care as to whether they clip or not.

 

[kantarion]

You're obviously very angry about all this but at this point, you're not really adding anything constructive in terms of the artistic feedback other than its Anime/Chinese/bad which is simplistic, racist and just plain wrong.

If they were really pandering to China there'd be no skeletons in the game or bones showing, which... is not the case. Also I've no idea what makes you think the Chinese are robots who are "cold and rational" whilst we are "emotional", this is just bizarre tbh.

Slightly more on topic I've noticed clipping issues with a few models whilst editing them, the Captain and Knight model in particular caught my attention but there may be more; the clipping issue is hard to solve due to the animations not giving much care as to whether they clip or not.

Me racistic ? Me hate china ? Dude,me saying they are being rational dont make me a racist. Go check their forums and see if they threat with refund, if blizzard dont fix the game soon. They aint whiners.

To them it is simple, blizzard advertise and final product are very differential. I request refund,i been cheated,give me back my money. End of the story

 

[StormKnight]

You're obviously very angry about all this but at this point, you're not really adding anything constructive in terms of the artistic feedback other than its Anime/Chinese/bad which is simplistic, racist and just plain wrong.

If they were really pandering to China there'd be no skeletons in the game or bones showing, which... is not the case. Also I've no idea what makes you think the Chinese are robots who are "cold and rational" whilst we are "emotional", this is just bizarre tbh.

Slightly more on topic I've noticed clipping issues with a few models whilst editing them, the Captain and Knight model in particular caught my attention but there may be more; the clipping issue is hard to solve due to the animations not giving much care as to whether they clip or not.

I agree that Kantarion is getting too hot headed but please don't play the racist card and ruin the entire thread.

Just read the post i send below him, I'm more in agreement with Kantarion that SebioL is ignoring and avoiding the evidence then his actual comments.

Its all just a big game of money, more money in western audience and Blizzard will pander to them like chasing carrot on a stick.

Yep, and this guy is here telling its not Asian inspired. look a the Pandas, look at the faces of units and heros and their icons. sigh.

Blizzard didn't even make this game for us, they made it for China. and it is self evident. they got visuals tweaked in their favor, art and design tweaked in their favor. special teenmod for them. they got news sooner then us and probably still do, they got exclusive collectors edition.

This game wasn't made realistic because developers and the new art team had a grand imagination. it was done to market to China XD
This is soo overwhelmingly obvious i'm at shock that he keeps thinking this is some new idea to change and advance.

The damn project was half assed, the inhouse visual art director left midway through. new one was inexperienced. Lemonsky went to Reddit saying they got hardly any feedback to change models they were all quickly passed one after another.

My man, the new visuals are not the result of set in stone goals, its the result of no goals and only doing the cheapest and most easiest way to market the game and get money off of.

PBR based realistic models mightaswell be renamed to "Anti Warcraft 3 Models" when inside the context of the game. how hard do we need to explain ourselves ? this is depressing.

And i'll expand to this with more evidence. Even though Blizzard has the teenmode specifically made to remedy the Chinese wishes that completely and utterly covers up skeletons. they still made the models and especially their faces more asian-esque. and made several attempts to get away with having specific things changed that cater to China but was unnoticeable for the casual western market so they could just skip making 2 entirely different sets of designs for Teenmode and regular mode.

You can see that the Panda from Hero's of the Storm clearly drawn and under the affect of one of the founding fathers of Blizzard art Samwise Didier, showing them as fun carefree yet colorful and powerful Panda warriors. while in Reforged they look like heavily ornated and armored Chinese generals with beards. I don't have a dislike towards this design outside of Warcraft and broader Blizzard art, i do have a problem when they try to wipe wash the original intend of these models because big daddy China has more money in their pocket and Blizzard sees fit to pander to them.

This discussion isn't about whether or not Blizzard tried to pander to China or not, its about to what extend they did. and they did to a great extend. but the entire argument about using the word China can honestly be tossed aside if only people understood that tBlizzard did this intentionally and it is a no brainer argument. I already posted my final review of the visual overhaul in page 33 titled "My final two cents on Reforgeds visual overhaul " and there is no blaming china in it while perfectly pointing out what i think its wrong.

@kantarion Btw that ghoul by Andre can use a tong xP

 

[YourArthas]

You're obviously very angry about all this but at this point, you're not really adding anything constructive in terms of the artistic feedback other than its Anime/Chinese/bad which is simplistic, racist and just plain wrong.

If they were really pandering to China there'd be no skeletons in the game or bones showing, which... is not the case. Also I've no idea what makes you think the Chinese are robots who are "cold and rational" whilst we are "emotional", this is just bizarre tbh.

Slightly more on topic I've noticed clipping issues with a few models whilst editing them, the Captain and Knight model in particular caught my attention but there may be more; the clipping issue is hard to solve due to the animations not giving much care as to whether they clip or not.

Last person you'll see saying something bad against China is kantarion and me lol, he is calling China a working nation that values labor instead of going 'they'll fix the game in time!!' unlike Blizzard advocates we have here that is all and instead if the game was made for China it would not be that shit because China sees WC3 as some sort 'national' game but the game is 'asian mobile game' inspired instead and for that reason Chinese forums are full of refund requests.

 

[Footman16]

The reason the designs might be more fitting to an east asian audience is maybe because LemonSky is a Malaysian studio has that possibility crossed peoples minds?

 

[YourArthas]

The reason the designs might be more fitting to an east asian audience is maybe because LemonSky is a Malaysian studio has that possibility crossed peoples minds?

Yup that is one of the main reasons why art sucks, they have hired the cheapest studio possible instead of hiring DragonFly again.

But main reason is LemonSky had no guidence from Blizzard.

 

[deepstrasz]

LemonSky is a Malaysian studio has that possibility crossed peoples minds?

But it's not Chinese though.

 

[Footman16]

But it's not Chinese though.

In the same way there's commonality between Western themes and designs there's also commonality in East Asian themes and designs.

 

[deepstrasz]

In the same way there's commonality between Western themes and designs there's also commonality in East Asian themes and designs.

The funny part being Malaysia is mostly Islamic.