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Warcraft 3 patch wish list

Discussion in 'Patch & Reforged Discussion' started by Ezekiel12, Sep 12, 2014.

  1. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Well, we can already do this... Unless you meant "... and have any number of custom abilities (with custom buffs) Stack appropriately with each other", which, unfortunately, is not possible for nearly all abilities.
     
  2. Napoqe

    Napoqe

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    The Problem, is that if you want to do many similar skill, it will come time will have to use the triggers. And in different ways, if can up make several skills only one base, would avoid this work.
    Something that I did not test (put color code of negative buff of the string), but it would avoid work also if it works. Endurance Aura with negative values, it does the opposite effect of the positive, only that buff of the ability, the text of the name of the buff is with positive sign.
     
  3. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    I'm not sure I totally understand. You can already create an arbitrarily large number of custom abilities based off a single standard ability. That is a thing.

    What you cannot do, however, is create multiple custom abilities/buffs from (using a specific example), say, Acid Bomb, and have any of those custom abilities "stack" appropriately (either with each other or with the original, base ability). That is (99% of the time) not a thing.

    The thing you're talking about with bus being green or red based on their nature (buff/debuff) is true, but I'm fairly certain you can use color codes to force it to look like how you want. That being said I don't know of any way for the game to truly consider it a buff/debuff, for stuff like Spell Steal or Devour Magic. (Actually, Spell Steal is kind of a frustrating issue for nearly anything custom).
     
  4. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    The thing is blizzard intentionally forbid stacking of all kind of buffs. Slow? Acid bomb? Silence? Whatever else? Get out, u can't do it.
     
  5. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    "Intentionally forbids" imputes a certain level of malevolence that I simply cannot abide. Moreover, I believe it is incorrect; the option obviously exists, because Auras & a very select few abilities (such as Cloud (thanks @ScrewTheTrees !)) can indeed Stack with custom copies of themselves.

    The only challenge is figuring out how viable it is to have that option made available for all abilities, and determining Blizzard's stance on doing so.
     
  6. Napoqe

    Napoqe

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    Do you use the official editor? What for me, if I do two skill of one skill base. Only one will work, and if you use the other it will have the effect of the ability that overlap.

    As an example, these days I was editing a map to make a map similar to Clash Royale, I did 8 skill based on the same ability, Dark Portal that invokes some units at the target point. But when I went to test, with 8 abilities in the construction that I did. Did what I did not want, the abilities that no is overlap, invoking the units of skill of overload and not the ones I wanted for that skill, besides invoking a wrong amount of skill which overlaped that.

    If you insist on this discussion, I think I'll make a map or video just to show what I'm speaking about.
     
  7. Kaijyuu

    Kaijyuu

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    Yeah, you can't use them on the same unit, but you can on different units.
     
  8. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    because thats how its stated in code. If base buff exists - refresh it with new data, else create one. There are no option to stack it except for Poison weapon. Those which do stack obviously belong to non-target spells, majority of singe target abilities cannot be stacked and requires to be triggered
     
  9. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Ahhh! I didn't understand you... If you're talking about multiples of an ability (custom or otherwise) on the same unit, then yes, that's an issue. However, I don't know that they can really fix that; it's Order IDs conflicting. Generally you can find an alternative ability (or trigger it) to do the same thing.

    You say "obviously", but it seems nobody knew about Cloud until this last year or so; that's a long time (at least, nobody publicly talked about it).

    I'll have to mess around with Poison, as I really could use that...

    Yes, that's what the code says. But it's not like they were intentionally trying to stymie modders; much more likely that they were simply trying to avoid buffs-stacking (the bad kind; e.g. no one wants two Cripples on their Hero) in the most straightforward way possible.
     
  10. Wrda

    Wrda

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    They could maybe just add a boolean flag to switch from stackable to unstackable or vice-versa.
    But anyway, why would you want more than 1 ability of the same ability base in the same unit? Seems stupid.
     
  11. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    there are differnce between stacking the same buff and the same BASE buff. Ladder games would be fine if stacking being allowed.

    Lets say I have 2 abilities with silence, different heroes owns them. When one casts, it dispels previous one, regardless whichever is longer. Thats why.

    Or different acid bombs. Or whatever the fuck I want to stack. Different buff ID? Should stack! End of story.
     
  12. Kaijyuu

    Kaijyuu

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    They were taking issue with your hyperbole, Mr Lich, not actually disagreeing with you. "Intentionally forbid" conjures the mental image of Blizz cackling evilly and twirling their mustaches, when in reality they were just in crunch time making an RTS and did what worked to solve their problems, not thinking about how it will affect modders.
     
  13. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    well thats misinterpretation, my post meant "It's done with purpose" instead of "blizz wanted to fuck us ever harder". You see, when I disabled those checks, some buffs went crazy a bit, creating issues. I believe they've turned stacking off from the very start and then copypasted ability's code further, intentionally forbiding stacking for good sake. Thing is they've never get to fix those bugs.
     
  14. MyPad

    MyPad

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    Perhaps, until MindWorX gets the green-light to say otherwise. ;)
     
  15. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    if only, if only
     
  16. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Well, I appreciate the disambiguation. However, since I'm not the only one who 'misinterpreted', I think it's important to recognize that communication is two-way; the words chosen (plus the context of the one writing them) influence the those who read them in a certain way, often independent of your intent.

    Someone mentioned you having experience with deep-level Warcraft code... So you're saying you've manipulated this part of the World Editor such that Buffs could Stack, and it was problematic? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    What do you think would be required to alleviate those issues?
     
  17. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Proper camera preview in the editor so you'd not have to Test Map each time.
     
  18. Napoqe

    Napoqe

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    Add options in orb effect abilities, to be able to stack with other orb effects in the Object Editor and in the Trigger Editor.
    Have new triggers that makes the effect of skill directly, without the need for dummys.

    Examples:
    • Events
      • Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability
    • Conditions
      • (Ability being cast) Equal to Mana Burn
    • Actions
      • Unit - Take the effect of the Slow on (Target unit of ability being cast)


    • Events
      • Unit - A unit Is attacked
    • Conditions
      • (Attacked unit) has buff Lightning Shield Equal to True
    • Actions
      • Set LightningShieldChance = (Random integer number between 1 and 4)
      • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
        • If - Conditions
          • LightningShieldChance Less than or equal to 1
        • Then - Actions
          • Unit - Take the effect of the Chain Lightning on (Attacking Unit)
        • Else - Actions


    • Events
      • Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability
    • Conditions
      • (Ability being cast) Equal to Area Entangling Roots
    • Actions
    • Unit Group - Pick every unit in (Units within 200.00 of (Target point of ability being cast)) and do (Actions)
      • Loop - Actions
        • Unit - Take the effect of the Entangling Roots on (Picked unit)

    In the Object Editor have different cost options such as gold, wood and variables of Trigger Editor for skills, unit training, etc.
     
  19. Spellbound

    Spellbound

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    Applying ability effects directly is more complicated than just applying the effect: you need to define ability levels, which player is casting it (if you just cast tranquility, which player unit will it heal?), and probably an attribution factor to a 'source' unit, like Damage Target is done. It'll probably need a lot more parameters than that. If you're gonna do AoE spell, you'll need to define x/y/z coordinates or locations, and what if you want to cast auras for a while? You'll need a time parameter :p

    Ofc if you only want 'Take effect' to be single-target abilities then I guess it might only be necessary to have levels and a source to credit for the ability, but why stop there where you can accommodate so much more with a different system? Idk what that system is, but I think 'proxy casters' could be used for that. Proxy are basically dummies, but they don't have all the performance needs of a unit, can cast an unlimited amount of spells at any time, will credit a source for the use of an ability, etc, etc.

    Then again, why not both? :D

    PS: adding more resource costs to abilities than just mana (eg Health, Gold, Lumber, Food even) would be great.
     
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    I'd love implementation of colour, size and whatnot change options for the FX of spells in the Object Editor too.