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The Future of Warcraft

Discussion in 'Latest Updates and News' started by Ralle, Mar 27, 2016.

  1. interviewquestion

    interviewquestion

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    imo Chris Metzen is a good example of why the Old Guard isn't necessarily always going to be the best. If Chris Metzen retired 10 years ago and someone else handed in the same modern Metzen stories, we would be appalled by the lack of imagination and depth of the story.

    Not to say he wasn't awesome, but clearly his talent was aging well.

    Blizzard North is long gone. And I wouldn't say any of the WoW expansions are "awful" except with WoD. HOTS was never going to be a dota killer. It's just a small game against 2 behemoths that have saturated the market.
     
  2. nhammen

    nhammen

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    I have a question and suggestion after reading The Hive Workshop Wish-list:

    1- When you guys refer to integrating W3 into Battle.net App do you mean how Dota2 is doing map browsing/installation if so i have a concern that they would censor our maps due to custom maps using copyright material in some maps(the current problem with releasing HotS editor)
    2- When you guys refer to multiple maps you mean lets say we have a RPG we create 1 main map where you level up and have 10 more for dungeon so while 1 player is in main map others can jump in dungeon maps and return to main again without leaving game?

    Suggestions:
    3- New stats system either in future patches or if they decide to make HD version but i think that would bring so much balance to the game mostly for custom games(strength for damage, agility for as/ms/dodge/avoid/etc, dexterity for critical damage, intellect for spell damage/mana, stamina for defense/health)
    4- Increase map size from 256x256 to at least 512x512 which if im not wrong is possible even now
    5- Possibility to rejoin a game after crash/disconnect something like dota2 allows keeping your progress where you left for custom maps
    6- To bring new people maybe make all the warcraft games till Reign of Chaos as campaingh in war3 being able to live the whole story in better graphics and compatibility
     
  3. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    We mean integrating it into the Blizzard (former BattleNet) application. Like how StarCraft II, Diablo III etc are. This means that you can launch the game from the app and when logged in to the multiplayer you can see and talk to your Blizzard friends while they see you are playing Warcraft III from Diablo III, StarCraft II, World of Warcraft etc.
    That is outright impossible. Only streaming state games can do that, which is how World of Warcraft and Diablo III work.
    Or they could remove the stat system seeing how it does not really enhance gameplay at all. That is why Heroes of the Storm has no stat system at all.
    Currently the maximum is 480*480... The game is not designed for such large maps so inherently performs badly. Most people will never manage to use a 480*480 map as it is so big. The number of maps which have fully used a 480*480 map can probably be counted with fingers.
    Only possible with streaming state games. Hence why locally changing maps is also not possible. DotA2 uses a streaming state model, which is common place for RPGs. In such a model all state is computed by a central server with clients receiving a roughly synced view of that state. This strongly contrasts RTS models of multiplayer where all clients keep track of all the game state at the same time and a server, the host, coordinates and synchronizes the player commands between all clients. Streaming state models cannot be used for RTS games as they need really expensive servers then and a lot of bandwidth to sync large amounts of state. RTS models of sync require the current game state be rebuilt before play can resume which requires fast forwarding a replay until in sync (how Heroes of the Storm does it) or getting a client to save, upload that save to the joining client and then loading that save all of which is impossible due to inaccurate saves and clients possibly not being able to upload files.
     
  4. CAAentertainment

    CAAentertainment

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    Removing the stat system would be a terrible idea, as the system had bee there so long that many, many RPG maps use it. So remove the stat system would make those many RPG, and Campaigns, unplayable.
     
  5. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    It is as good an idea as extending it though, which was the point to be made.

    Rather they add ability to modify unit properties with triggers, that way future maps do not need to depend on the stat system.
     
  6. karaulov

    karaulov

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    But if dump all objects,orders,game data after crash to disk, and load it after reconnect? (or just auto save game, and load game after reconnect to host)
    Too impossible ? :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  7. nhammen

    nhammen

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    In the statement says: "ideally, patching/installation/installing maps would all be simplified." im referring to maps installation/management if its like dota2 maps being hosted on their server that could prove problems with copyright if someone makes map with a Disney character they can be sued (current problem with HotS editor) so i prefer if maps are managed manually :D

    Well im not familiar with this streaming state game so ill believe you and ill just say Warcraft 4 or release HotS editor and move there both sounds good to me id play custom maps anyway (ill run the story 1-2 times :D)

    Ive seen couple maps with 2 maps that load codes from 1 to 2nd so you can progress to higher lvl Korean rpgs of course now that map size being raised again i think that map boundary's should to

    Well as im not that big of coder i cant say much about stats dont know which is better but if he have built-in stats system similar to wow with attack/spell power and critical bases on stats would simplify a lot of work for modders not having to code all that JUST MY OPINION



    Something else i tough even if we cant use multiple maps for dungeon higher bounder's can provide similar effect have main map up to 300x300 and use rest for dungeons(in case its and rpg)

    And another feature i think would be nice a players size increase to at least 16 people which i think is reasonable with current internet speed now days.
    On the same note i think if its possible to make computers not use player slots because ive seen many maps that uses half slots to make team defense maps where you have 3x3 player and the rest 3 slots occupied by computer for defense/shops only accessible to current team. I could be totally wrong but its not possible to make computer through triggers/jass and use all 12 players slots at least i haven't see map that has done this
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  8. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Yes it is impossible. As save then load results in different game state than when save was run. Otherwise one could have all clients periodically auto save and then reconnect themselves using that auto save as a start point.

    HotS editor is StarCraft II editor.

    People use stat systems far too often when in reality they are completely unnecessary. Instead of boosting a spell power stat you can boost spell power directly, which is what StarCraft II allows.
     
  9. karaulov

    karaulov

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    But I this had in mind.
    But everything is much easier:
    If one of client dropped, wait for reconnect, then server(host) save game and send save to client, client load this and continue game.

    In War3 everyone has all game info, this is not Dota 2.
    In Warcraft III is very easy to make reconnect, but stupid bad blizzard coders can't do it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  10. Tleno

    Tleno

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    [​IMG]
    It's a dated game from an era of smaller hard drives, slower internets, and greater technical limitations. It's running on a dated engine using dated libraries with engine only small portion of current Blizzard programmers might have familiarity with, and during it's development many corners were cut and many things optimized. Do you really think it's that simple and only stupidity is to blame here?
     
  11. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    The server (host) does not have a copy of the game state. The server is nothing more than a light weight coordinator. Hence why hosting services are offered for free as they use practically no CPU time, memory and internet bandwidth.

    DotA 2 is super easy to reconnect to since you just wait for the next game state update which brings you all the game state as it streams you the game state from a heavy weight server which calculates it all. Reconnecting hence is as simple as in games like World of Warcraft and Diablo III which work on the same principles and take seconds.

    In other words DotA 2 is like YouTube where you can resume watching a video where you last stopped without having to start from the beginning, as chunks get streamed for the position of the movie you are currently at. Warcraft III on the other hand is like a movie without key frames meaning that it has to restart from the very beginning each time it is viewed as every frame depends on the content of the previous fame except for the very first frame.

    No it is not very easy. You do not seem to be understanding how difficult it is to do in RTS games. Truly accurate game state files can be anywhere from 10 to 70 MB in size depending on complexity, factoring in compression. For a lot of WC3 players it might take them longer to download, or especially upload, such state than the session lasts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  12. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    well thats the least issue. you dont think about 33.6kb modem users when you doing ur stuff, so blizz should make at least "luxury" type of reconnect with this kind of gamestate sending. it may works, except the part that local player data will be fucked and that requires specific efforts from mapmakers to evade such kind of issues
     
  13. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Neither do you only think of people with fibre optic connections. Even then it would take one 70 seconds to upload such state. That is if WC3 was even able to save state accurately enough to allow for such a reconnection. Everything from internal ordering to timing states have to be saved perfectly.
     
  14. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    ordering is fine, else you would get instant desync. as I said only local data is issue.
    and well, for tournametns waiting another minute is just fine. right now there are totally 0 alternatives anyway
     
  15. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    The same internal ordering has to be used after a load as was used before. A lot of games fail to do this.
     
  16. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    New Topic: Do we really think we're gonna get a new Tavern hero? I mean, it was near the top of the list (by some miracle), and it's definitely a big "HEY WE'RE DOING STUFF" signal. But after so many years... Can it be? More importantly, what would it be?? So many options, so few slots... Elemental heroes, Creep heroes, sub-race Heroes, renegade main-race Heroes...

    I haven't said this anywhere yet, but some deep secret part of me had the crazy idea that they would actually run a little "Make the Next Tavern Hero" Contest (in an attempt to 1) garner community support, 2) increase visibility & community involvement, 3) crowdsource the work of doing it), where the winner would be fine-tuned & put into the following Patch!

    Yeah, I know. Let me dream...
     
  17. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    It would likely be a worgan or Dranari or something referencing World of Warcraft.
     
  18. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

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    Never has someone made me so sad with so few words...

    I could almost swallow a wolfman but please by all the is good & holy not a space-goat.
     
  19. Spellbound

    Spellbound

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    I'm the other way around, I think Worgens are completely overrated. Not that I play WoW, though. A Draenei would be fun, but don't they appear way after the events of Wc3? Imo it should be something that exists in the current time period, but WoW references don't seem that far out of left field.
     
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Well, for me, it would be nicer if they (Blizzard) did it.
    Worgen and Draenei?

    What about... a temporary flying hero (spell)? A dragonspawn something or a... IDK.
    Or a two headed ogre hero?
    OH I KNOW!!!! A murloc hero! YEAH, THAT'S IT! NO!!! Not Murky and certainly not that fairy dragon freak from HotStorm.
    Or an eredar hero!
    A faceless one hero!
    A nerubian (not undead) hero?
    A centaur or razormane hero?
    What about a troll hero (=/=Darkspear Tribe)?
    A Yeti/Sasquatch/Wildkin hero :D?
    Obviously another demon hero... a Mistress of Pain?
    Ye olde' Kobold or Gnoll (I would sure love this last one) hero!
    Revenant hero? Golem hero?
    Satyr hero! Furbolg hero!
    A Chris Metzen hero!
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016