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Techtree Contest
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Wc3c's contest allows for 1 import, you could wait and see how that turns out before making your final decision, perhaps.
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wow...theme is magic race now.
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Just 1 import? I think that you be an complete
EPIC FAIL
Good races need good triggering, ideas and blah blah. But they also needs good imports. Read my latest post for an example of freakness.
EPIC FAIL
Good races need good triggering, ideas and blah blah. But they also needs good imports. Read my latest post for an example of freakness.
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Agreed.
How do you expect us to make something original if we got limitations of Blizzard-only models? Naga, Goblin, Tauren, Troll, Dwarf, Blood Elf and Deamon techtrees would all like alike, since they're way too restricted without imports, because they're already devided into a small non-race group of units by Blizzard. That means there are too few or just enough units made by Blizzard to make an original race. Every single entry would be at least 75% alike if there would be no imports allowed with these subjects.
File restriction causes an import limit too, so I think No Restrictions is the only rule there should be.
How do you expect us to make something original if we got limitations of Blizzard-only models? Naga, Goblin, Tauren, Troll, Dwarf, Blood Elf and Deamon techtrees would all like alike, since they're way too restricted without imports, because they're already devided into a small non-race group of units by Blizzard. That means there are too few or just enough units made by Blizzard to make an original race. Every single entry would be at least 75% alike if there would be no imports allowed with these subjects.
File restriction causes an import limit too, so I think No Restrictions is the only rule there should be.
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Requiring no more than 1 import set for a single unit means that users actually have to use their brain in choosing that one. Maybe a good building, maybe a good hero, maybe that epic final unit, or hell, maybe a seriously necessary worker. If you can import infinitely many things, the contest goes from "Who can make a better techtree" to "Who can make a techtree that uses the most awesome imports in the database."
Now, as with most contests here, users are not challenged, but are instead given free reign to dance around in fields of flowers and are then given reputation candy for whoever dances the prettiest. I'm more interested in challenging users and seeing what they can really do. That's me.
Now, as with most contests here, users are not challenged, but are instead given free reign to dance around in fields of flowers and are then given reputation candy for whoever dances the prettiest. I'm more interested in challenging users and seeing what they can really do. That's me.
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Wrong. The winner will not be that lazy guy who just put 200 models into an 30 mb map, but with bad ideas, no custom (and triggered spells) and with lots of errors (like put an spell in an unit whitout mana).
The winner will be the person who make an race with nice custom triggered spells, balanced, error-free, creative units and wise choice of models.
The winner will be the person who make an race with nice custom triggered spells, balanced, error-free, creative units and wise choice of models.
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Talking in extremes makes you look silly. Anyone with half-decent taste can pick the right models in the database, use them effectively, shirk a bit on other aspects (particularly design), and win the contest. That's the whole reason imports are limited in the first place in any contest.
Anyways, you're free your opinion. I don't particularly care to discuss this further with you.
Anyways, you're free your opinion. I don't particularly care to discuss this further with you.
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@Dusk, I couldn't have said it better myself. But hey, I'll stop caring about this contest now, seeing as it it as opposite it could be of how I would like it.
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Dusk, you've got one heck of a bug in your point of view: People can't make easy contests!
A contest that easily provides a participant with a submission makes it just as easy for all other participators to enter a submission.
If imports are allowed, people put effort into their maps, trying to pick the best models, icons, etc. for it, because they're guessing in the dark about what quality the other contestant's imports are. In fact: It makes it even more challenging. Not to mention, the freedom of infinite imports allows much creativity. The base line in that sentence would be: How would you like to judge 10 submissions that are all alike? Who's going to win if they all use the same stuff?
You're not making it a techtree contest anymore. You're making it a balance contest, because that'll be all that's left to judge on if you remove imports. Not to mention that the public poll won't attract a lot of public, because they don't have your skilled eyes to recognise the entries aren't exact copies.
A contest that easily provides a participant with a submission makes it just as easy for all other participators to enter a submission.
If imports are allowed, people put effort into their maps, trying to pick the best models, icons, etc. for it, because they're guessing in the dark about what quality the other contestant's imports are. In fact: It makes it even more challenging. Not to mention, the freedom of infinite imports allows much creativity. The base line in that sentence would be: How would you like to judge 10 submissions that are all alike? Who's going to win if they all use the same stuff?
You're not making it a techtree contest anymore. You're making it a balance contest, because that'll be all that's left to judge on if you remove imports. Not to mention that the public poll won't attract a lot of public, because they don't have your skilled eyes to recognise the entries aren't exact copies.
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Completely right. The imports are the heart of the race.
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Let us DEBATE
Imports?
No Imports?
Yes?
No?
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I know I said I would ignore this, but well...
Avator, allowing imports does not add for creativity. With imports you can find a cool model and come up with a unit/building/whatever from there. However, without imports, this isn't possible and this is where creativeness comes in. There are what, 3 bandit models in the WE? To make a full techree with that does take more creativity, as you'll need to think "outside the box". But w/e, let's see who laughs last when wc3c's contest has concluded.
Avator, allowing imports does not add for creativity. With imports you can find a cool model and come up with a unit/building/whatever from there. However, without imports, this isn't possible and this is where creativeness comes in. There are what, 3 bandit models in the WE? To make a full techree with that does take more creativity, as you'll need to think "outside the box". But w/e, let's see who laughs last when wc3c's contest has concluded.
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What, pray tell, does this gem of a sentence mean?Avator said:
If you can't tell the quality of an import offhand, then you're not going to win whether you can import only 1 set of resources or infinitely many. This is a moot point.Avator said:
Not the case, but I'm not even going to try to convince you of it.Avator said:
The one who uses it all the best, obviously.Avator said:
Except, you know, the techtree.Avator said:
Avator said:
Rising_Dusk said:
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so thats 2 for No imports?
I dont understand the poll...
We can only have one of those 3 rules or something?
why not apply all, or more than one of them. the poll doesnt work for that sort of thing.
I dont understand the poll...
We can only have one of those 3 rules or something?
why not apply all, or more than one of them. the poll doesnt work for that sort of thing.
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gilles! come save us!
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No imports strikes me as the perfect way to make the race look like a collage of random warcraft units... blah. If anything, at least limited filesize so that the user has some freedom.
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Wow..
without imports this is going to be extremely gay.
without imports this is going to be extremely gay.
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Who said anything about no imports, and who said anything about this contest happening anytime soon?
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No Imports is a choice in the poll, Gilles...
As for Dusk:
Please, Dusk: Don't make me wait any longer for those results, because there's no telling who could win with such unbelievable creative submissions!
As for Dusk:
It means just what it says: If a submission is easily made by 1 contestant, it's just as easily made by any other contestant, so it's always a challenge.
If you can't tell that imports make a map unique, especially when a lot of positions are to be filled, then you shouldn't be here in the first place.
The reply to that is easy: Because you can't convince me, because you've got nothing to convince me with, because you've obviously don't have any idea or you simply forgot what a techtree contains and what you need for it.
If there are 10 Blizzard models fitting the theme (race) and you've got to fill 10 unit spots: I would be so excited to know the thrilling and (without a doubt) enormously shocking results of who of the 10 contestants would be the best in putting those exact same models in the exact same order?
Please, Dusk: Don't make me wait any longer for those results, because there's no telling who could win with such unbelievable creative submissions!
Your parents got you to school when you were young. You were supposed to learn how to read. Use that ability!
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Why Avator, would everyone use the same models? It's not like every contestant will do the same race, eh?
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Oh...
My...
God...
Read the post again. If you still don't get it, go find yourself a new hobby that doesn't involve thinking.
My...
God...
Read the post again. If you still don't get it, go find yourself a new hobby that doesn't involve thinking.
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Your insults won't make you seem more clever, boy.
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Your lacks don't make you clever either for that matter. So instead of trying to reply on a discussion you should know you can't win, I suggest you simply read the post to find out why you can't win it...
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Let's just see who laughs last, Avator, when wc3c contest has concluded.
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Oh, right... Sorry, that's my mistake. I should've told you this isn't Wc3C before starting this discussion.
If THW would be just like Wc3C, there'd be no use to have 2 identical sites, but you apparently got a problem with the difference between different/unique and the same.
Hint: They're opposites of eachother
Now if you like the Wc3C contest so much, you should, instead of having a discussion by posting nonsense, put that effort in making yourself look bad on Wc3C.
If THW would be just like Wc3C, there'd be no use to have 2 identical sites, but you apparently got a problem with the difference between different/unique and the same.
Hint: They're opposites of eachother
Now if you like the Wc3C contest so much, you should, instead of having a discussion by posting nonsense, put that effort in making yourself look bad on Wc3C.
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First off, let me just point out the futility of your post; Dusk isn't very likely to come back here, and his opinion from several pages back isn't likely to change.
~~~
As opposed to using Imports; free resources that are open for anyone to download and use.
My Jungle Troll race is "unique", but not because I plan on having loads of cool custom models; but because the ideas behind it are solid and interesting, because it's a fully-playable race with proper grammar and such. The models are there to make it look good.
Let's go with your assumption. 10 models that fit the race, and 10 unit-slots to fill. Let's even assume that everyone is doing a Bandit race (since that springs to mind as most fitting that stereotype), although it doesn't really matter.
What Dusk is saying is that you shouldn't be using those models necessarily. Each person will come up with their own interpretation on the Bandit race. One may have it where the Bandits pressure other races into working with them; suddenly, it's not just 10 models. Another might have "corrupted Bandits", meaning they might use some models not in your "10 models" list (like the Acolyte as a Fallen Priest, purely for example).
What I'm (still) saying is, that it's the Ideas, the Design of the race that counts. You should not just find all the models for X race, and make units/heroes/buildings to fit them. You should come up with cool ideas, themes that fit the race, tactics they might use, the design of it all, and then come up with models to fit the units you made.
Case in point: I am having problems with my Goblin race, because I can only have 1 import. But it has forced me to become creative; I actually have a couple good ideas that came about, simply because of the import limit. It's not like I can only use those Goblins. Further more, another user is making a Goblin race. But he took his differently (read: the Design of his is different); he made a race that's an alliance between Ogres and Goblins. Suddenly, he has no problem finding models for his race.
~~~
Note, I'm not against allowing imports for this contest; in fact, I think it would be quite interesting. I love custom models and resources, and the possibility of people getting requests done for this, thus increasing the database here, is exciting to me.
But custom imports are not the end-all, be-all.
~~~
No. Design makes a map unique. Concepts and Ideas make a map unique. Those are things you come up creatively, and aside from the chance of others coming up with it too, they make a map truly unique.Avator said:
As opposed to using Imports; free resources that are open for anyone to download and use.
My Jungle Troll race is "unique", but not because I plan on having loads of cool custom models; but because the ideas behind it are solid and interesting, because it's a fully-playable race with proper grammar and such. The models are there to make it look good.
Stop claiming things to which you have no experience with. (I'm talking about his knowledge of techtrees, not yours).Avator said:
Avator said:
Linaze said:
Your post does indeed assume that each entrant is doing the same race. Insulting Linaze's take on that assumption is thus ill-advised of you.Avator said:
Let's go with your assumption. 10 models that fit the race, and 10 unit-slots to fill. Let's even assume that everyone is doing a Bandit race (since that springs to mind as most fitting that stereotype), although it doesn't really matter.
What Dusk is saying is that you shouldn't be using those models necessarily. Each person will come up with their own interpretation on the Bandit race. One may have it where the Bandits pressure other races into working with them; suddenly, it's not just 10 models. Another might have "corrupted Bandits", meaning they might use some models not in your "10 models" list (like the Acolyte as a Fallen Priest, purely for example).
What I'm (still) saying is, that it's the Ideas, the Design of the race that counts. You should not just find all the models for X race, and make units/heroes/buildings to fit them. You should come up with cool ideas, themes that fit the race, tactics they might use, the design of it all, and then come up with models to fit the units you made.
Case in point: I am having problems with my Goblin race, because I can only have 1 import. But it has forced me to become creative; I actually have a couple good ideas that came about, simply because of the import limit. It's not like I can only use those Goblins. Further more, another user is making a Goblin race. But he took his differently (read: the Design of his is different); he made a race that's an alliance between Ogres and Goblins. Suddenly, he has no problem finding models for his race.
Stop acting like your the authority in this matter. You come off as incredibly prideful, and it does you no good. Dusk knows what he's talking about most of the time, but even moreso in matters of Design. Which is really the issue here.Avator said:
~~~
Note, I'm not against allowing imports for this contest; in fact, I think it would be quite interesting. I love custom models and resources, and the possibility of people getting requests done for this, thus increasing the database here, is exciting to me.
But custom imports are not the end-all, be-all.
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...Avator said:
Is there any intelligent reason why you're ignoring race dynamics in this equation? Were you hoping all races would be vanilla copies of humans or something? Come on, you can't possibly be for real with what you're saying.Avator said:
Anyways, I reported your post for flaming. Please, I know how to read and so do the mods - maybe you should spend some of your hard-learned talent in reading the rules before partaking of discussions where you're quite obviously breaking them. Thanks in advance.Avator said:
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Oh sure, go ahead and come back, prove me wrong. 
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My activity here is directly proportional to the number of people that say things too ridiculous to let be in this section of the site.
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I don't think we will be having this contest. At least not for a little while.
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Well i was just reading the wc3c contest and it has like 20 entries and they are doing pretty much every race (Including creeps, lol) . As much as i wanted to enter this, i would have to agree with you. We should wait.
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I suppose by creeps you mean critters?
Btw, wc3c almost has 40 contestants at the moment. All with obviously not finish, of course, but still.
Btw, wc3c almost has 40 contestants at the moment. All with obviously not finish, of course, but still.
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Well ive decided to enter the contest at wc3c. So i probably wouldnt enter this contest if it did start now.
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somehow, this was kinda like scythe master's techtree contest submission thingy.
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And the other 4 or 5 before and after it, but so what? They're all archived now.
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