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Starcraft 2 MAJOR Editor Update

Discussion in 'Latest Updates and News' started by Archian, Jul 15, 2020.

  1. Kacpa2

    Kacpa2

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    Well atleast SC2 gets treated better than wc3 and finally has what it should've had from the very start wc3 like object editor thanks to the easy mode...
     
  2. Strydhaizer

    Strydhaizer

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    I didn't pursue SC2 modding for two reasons:

    1. Can you add skies now? Back then SC2 only has boring black sky, I can't add skies for cinematics and scenic shots (I can't see the sky in the editor).
    2. I can't convert assets to SC2. How do you convert WC3 assets to SC2? I went to alot of threads and websites back then looking for a tool that can convert .mdx to .md2 format but I had no luck - I had no luck using custom assets for SC2. (It doesn't really matter if the model doesn't/will not have animations, the units in SC2 are enough already I just want to port unaninated terraining assets like Stones and Sword to SC2. Also it shouldn't be hard reskinning SC2 Warcraft III assets since both classic WC3 texture and SC2 Warcraft III diffuse textures are the same, I think I don't even need to convert it to .dds since Reforged assets are all in .dds format now).

    If I can do both now then I might leave WC3 modding entirely and move to SC2. I had that game for a very long time but never played it again after playing the campaign.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  3. Lon-ami

    Lon-ami

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    Even if Blizzard pretty much replicated every single Warcraft III option into StarCraft II, there's still one big problem:

    StarCraft II sucks.

    One of the many things that made W3 so great, specially for modding, was the absolutely insane amount of assets, from terrain elements to creatures. SC2 fell really flat there, there's pretty much nothing outside the three main races. One of the big reasons it flopped long-term, imo. Even if the editor hadn't sucked since day one, the lack of assets would have killed it either way.

    Also, cliff levels are very limited in SC2, and as far as I know (left WoL after 2 years, came back for HotS and only stayed for like one month) the cliff limitations weren't touched. Correct me if I'm wrong (probably, since I see they added water pathing too), because I really hated that, since I love "siege maps" and multiple cliff levels are a must there. Edit: Seems this was fixed, good.

    Vanilla SC2 was so full of stupid decisions.

    In my opinion, they made a huge mistake back when they released SC2, by not releasing it as some sort of platform instead, specially when they were trying to push the marketplace thing behind the scenes.

    Releasing Heroes of the Storm as a separate product was yet another mistake.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  4. Kasrkin

    Kasrkin

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    And suddenly the UED campaign and the Imperia series aren't quite so far into the pipe dream territory. It's weird to say but Shar and I are going to have give some serious thought to what we want to focus and/or start over the next few years when we finish our current campaign.

    SC2 has suddenly entered bizarro territory.
     
  5. fenix140

    fenix140

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    I really don't know what Blizzard plans to do.
    1.- If this works and many people like it, the community will be divided in two. One focused on War 3 Sc2, and the other focused on War 3 Reforged, this is the least desired in terms of the editing community.
    2.- Why did you just make this change to SC 2 after so long? This doesn't make sense, as removing an audience from a recently released game like Reforged is counterproductive.
    3.- What happened to War 3 Reforged? Will its development be forgotten?

    A logical answer:
    If it's not my imagination, when the War 3 Reforged Teasers were released it seemed that they used the SC 2 engine for this.
    Because once the game was released, it had many flaws, and nothing that was seen in the Teasers and the initial tests at Blizcom were the same.
    According to this logic, if you think about it, it is possible that War 3 a game that weighed more or less 1GB, despite 30 GB, closely resembles the weight that SC 2 currently has.
    So in my opinion this was a plan from the beginning, if I'm not mistaken, perhaps they raised the idea of uniting the War 3 Reforged game engine with that of SC 2.
    There would be no point in the big change in model mechanics redesign and modifications, with the export of maps from War 3 to SC 2.
    This makes me think that this was done with the purpose of completing the tests using the War3 community, to find out the compatibility of the maps between these two games, and then run the current Reforged game engine and the classic version with the Same SC 2 engine. Thus War 3 Reforged would be on the SC 2 platform and also had the attributes of that game, as its editor, this was seen in the Blizzcom gameplays by Grubby and both are seen to be similar.
    Having the free SC 2 package inside Warcraft 3 Reforged well that would be unexpected, but if I go to the point of view that they said "This will not be a simple Remastered" it makes me think of that possibility. Just take it as an opinion.
     
  6. Uncle

    Uncle

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    They added up to 15 cliffs levels with this patch and most if not all of the Warcraft 3 Assets are available to use in Starcraft 2 and have been for a good while now. They don't look perfect but that's to be expected.
     
  7. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    There are many variations of each faction units and it literally includes all the assets from classic Warcraft III.
    It was needed to prevent bloat. Heroes of the Storm is as big if not larger than StarCraft II. Having them as the same product would require an insane amount of install space.
    It is much more likely because they specifically optimized and fine tuned a small part for demonstration and marketing purposes. When it had to be made into a full and real product some production qualities had to be sacrificed for it to be viable.
     
  8. fenix140

    fenix140

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    That's what I thought, I was testing the SC 2 War3 game, and comparing the game with the Teasers is almost the same, the trees, the terrain, the effects, nothing compared to the current War 3 Reforged. In SC 2 everything looks very good, I think if it was what many asked for the game.
    Now about the editor, the Galaxy is very functional and diverse, compared to the World Editor, this has great Pros+, but as I said Blizzard I do not know what is planning, but I guess they will try to mix the two communities. If not, let's see what they will be doing.

    I am speculating and I think it is possible in the future, SC 2 players can play games of Warcraft 3 and vice versa.
    This is possible, if you update the SC 2 game engine that this is more compatible with Warcraft 3, oh wait they already did. So what is missing I suppose, that they apply the same with Reforged. Of course they have the codes of the game and I think it is feasible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  9. Selaya

    Selaya

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    hi douglas macarthur is that you
     
  10. Ezekiel12

    Ezekiel12

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    Only because they brought many mechanics of wc3 to sc2 does not mean that the engines are suddenly compatible in all file formats, internal workings, network code and such. I don't think it will ever be possible to make them compatible.
    Even if they ditch one engine completely and try to emulate the other one as close as possible they will never get 100%.

    If that was their plan then why not try that from the start instead of sinking resources in reforged. Makes no sense.

    It also makes no sense that the sc2 team/blizzard would see that reforged will be a failure late 2019 and then go: "hm, I guess we should bring many features to sc2 now, that'll do." Also I would say all those changes required a much longer time than half a year.

    For me the most likely explanation is that sc2 had a small but really good team of programmers that was allowed to go haywire because they were done with content.
    And that team did not communicate with the reforged guys but just wished that bigger project good luck. When the sc2 team saw that reforged is going to bomb they were nearly finished with their changes.
     
  11. Uncle

    Uncle

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    Anyone have a test map with the Data Collections/Warcraft 3 stuff setup. Would be greatly appreciated.
     
  12. Ether

    Ether

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    With this, I can now merge Zerg and Scourge or or or migrate humans to Zerus :p so much fun here.
     
  13. Rui

    Rui

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    My thoughts exactly. Assuming it really makes the SC2 Editor that much easier, this patch is a bomb... but it is 10 years too late. People gave up on SC2 a long time ago.

    I bought Wings of Liberty mainly for modding. Then met with a complex, undocumented Editor, an 8 ground tiles limit, a despotic EULA, a 256x256 maximum for map dimensions smaller than Wc3's, people claiming they were reaching map size limit only with triggers, an unability to organize stuff in the data editor, a huge lack of (medieval) assets — nothing to work with besides the three main races as @Lon-ami said.

    I remember using Aiur foliage, looking at those round, yellow, black-stripped obviously alien flowers, and thinking: “This just isn't gonna work...” @Triceron's efforts to recreate medieval stuff gave me some hope, but progress soon halted.

    Wc3 stuff was only included in 2015, @Dr Super Good — again, 5 years too late after I repeatedly warned through every channel possible after the SC2 Beta in 2009/2010 that it would significantly deter SC2's modding scene success. Other small Editor bugs (such as data editor objects vanishing for no apparent reason) stopped me from modding the game completely.
     
  14. Shar Dundred

    Shar Dundred

    Map Moderator

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    Yup.

    I can still see some people moving to SC2 due to current issues with Reforged, tbh.
    Personally, I am not expecting a massive rise in SC2 modding over night, but I can still see
    this bringing more life to SC2 modding (no, not only because of Reforged) and making old
    StarCraft 2 players/modders return to the game.
     
  15. DracoL1ch

    DracoL1ch

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    even if a creator moves to sc2, his players won't
    the new platform must provide superior features which couldn't be denied by anyone. "it doesn't crash as often as reforged" isnt a feature tho
     
  16. MrRious

    MrRious

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    This. You're all too optimistic.
     
  17. fenix140

    fenix140

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    What I am commenting on is speculation. Let's take everything into account, its progress with Reforged and SC2. This is an Opinion, but when the Teasers game was launched on Blizzcom, the game was seen, and this itself had some very notable improvements, the terrain, the lighting, the animation changes in question to its cinematics, so I put myself to check the recent patch that Blizzard released, SC 2 War3, and oh! Wow, it is almost the same as the Teasers that were presented to us in 2018, the difference that is seen in the game is impressive.

    If you compare it to War3 Reforged it is nothing like that, but I take into account something very interesting, and it is the possibility that they used the SC 2 Game Engine in Reforged, then what happened?

    Due to lack of time and budget, they decided in the final game to eliminate many features, that's why so many Faults, Glicht, and the various Bugs of the patches that were delivered before this one.

    But, in the end the Classic ones did not eliminate the SC 2 engine in War 3 Reforged (I suppose it is that engine or an improved one), so what they are doing is advancing the game engine so that it looks more like that of SC 2, right, they already have the models made, only the compatible mechanics would be missing, and once done. From that point, they will be able to alter the entire World Editor so that it resembles itself to the Galaxy Editor that has many features.

    I don't mean to say that you would be better off saving yourself all the trouble if you used SC 2 directly to tweak it as seen with the new patch now, and sell us as the "New Warcraft 3 Reforged". To do that would be to completely rule out classic War 3, his best option was to upgrade his engine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  18. Rui

    Rui

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    Regarding an unified engine. Provided they can somehow solve the disk bloat problem, I believe it to be the future. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel with every new RTS (especially within the same company); improvements would automatically propagate backwards, and it'd mean less code to maintain.

    Same goes for an unified Editor — the assets-mod system already acts as a means to separate data. Users could just select assets/mods according to desired settings (medieval or sci-fi).
     
  19. OutsiderXE

    OutsiderXE

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    Blizzard needs to make an RTS engine independant of their own Battle.net games, like Unreal Engine, so developers can license it and produce games.
     
  20. fenix140

    fenix140

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    It is logical. Creating a new engine from 0 would not be beneficial, if they already have one made, re-inventing the RTS wheel would be a project of a lot of investment, it is better to use what it owns and update it, and that's what I think, what Blizzard is doing, especially for an upgrade project like Reforged. Use a more powerful engine that would be in this case the SC 2 to improve War 3 Classic.

    I've worked in other different editors and mods from other games. And if, having a large amount of resources on the part of a game is very beneficial, since you do not have to use many tools to simulate something, simply know the operation of the game engine, and ready the rest would be added modeling and codes more simple.

    Regards...
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020