1. Music Contest #10 - Results are finally published! Drop by to check some retro songs and congratulate the winners!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Join Terraining Contest #19 and witness the aftermath!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. The 3rd Melee Mapping Contest is ON! Join in on a ride of a 4v4 melee experience!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. The 30th edition of the Modeling Contest is finally up! The Portable Buildings need your attention, so come along and have a blast!
    Dismiss Notice
Music Contest #10 - Results Terraining Contest #19 - Aftermath Melee Mapping contest #3 - 4 vs 4 Modeling Contest #30 - Portable Buildings

So any ETA on the order ID fix?

Discussion in 'Patch Discussion' started by Zwiebelchen, Apr 9, 2017.

Page 1 of 2
  1. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,775
    Resources:
    11
    Models:
    4
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    11
    This bug is serious and breaks backwards-compatibility with almost all maps that got optimized with Vex' map optimizer. INCLUDING maps made entirely in GUI.

    This is a serious thing and needs to be fixed yesterday, not in 2 months.


    As for me, I can not release any new versions despite having fixed my Newgen install, as a manual retrofix for the messed up order IDs might backfire as soon as blizzard patches the order IDs back.


    We (speaking for the whole community here, sorry) desperately need an ETA on this. Or at least an official word by blizzard if the new order IDs are going to stay or not. At least let us know if this is a permanent change or not, so we can adapt.
     
    Zwiebelchen, Apr 9, 2017
    #1
  2. SpasMaster

    SpasMaster

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,844
    Resources:
    4
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    2
    Resources:
    4
    Was just about to make a thread about this myself.
    +1
     
    SpasMaster, Apr 9, 2017
    #2
  3. Kam

    Kam

    Blizzard Associate Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,597
    Resources:
    22
    Models:
    8
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    12
    Resources:
    22
    The issue has already been resolved and will be included in the next patch, which will be soon.
     
    Kam, Apr 10, 2017
    #3
  4. Kyrbi0

    Kyrbi0

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    7,537
    Resources:
    1
    Models:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Does "being fixed" happen to include new spells for modding? Or maybe the ability to use unused ability ID's to allow abilities to stack? : )
     
    Kyrbi0, Apr 10, 2017
    #4
  5. Hotwer

    Hotwer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    370
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Expecting to have more detailed information about the next patch
     
    Hotwer, Apr 10, 2017
    #5
  6. puffdragon

    puffdragon

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    Messages:
    330
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Resolved how? New order ids are staying or older order ids are restored?
     
    puffdragon, Apr 10, 2017
    #6
  7. Kam

    Kam

    Blizzard Associate Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,597
    Resources:
    22
    Models:
    8
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    12
    Resources:
    22
    Restored order ID's.
     
    Kam, Apr 10, 2017
    #7
  8. pyf

    pyf

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,150
    Resources:
    2
    Tutorials:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    Hopefully sooner than soon... :wink:
     
    pyf, Apr 15, 2017
    #8
  9. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,775
    Resources:
    11
    Models:
    4
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    11
    I hope they fix the JNGP aswell while they are at it. Self-fixing is great and all, but I prefer having a solution that is future-proof.
     
    Zwiebelchen, Apr 19, 2017
    #9
  10. TriggerHappy

    TriggerHappy

    Code Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    3,512
    Resources:
    22
    Spells:
    11
    Tutorials:
    2
    JASS:
    9
    Resources:
    22
    You can't expect Blizzard to support JNGP forever. @MindWorX is updating WEX and it already much more future proof.
     
    TriggerHappy, Apr 19, 2017
    #10
  11. KILLCIDE

    KILLCIDE

    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,426
    Resources:
    20
    Models:
    2
    Icons:
    10
    Spells:
    7
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    20
    Yeah I'm not sure why everyone is clinging onto JNGP so hard. JNGP will always be stuck on 1.21, so every new patch is going to break it somehow. It's going to get to the point where it will flat out stop working. Rather than having MindWorX work on an editor that is stuck in the past, it is much better overall having him work on a new editor that will automatically update itself to the new editor changes Blizzard brings.
     
    KILLCIDE, Apr 19, 2017
    #11
  12. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,775
    Resources:
    11
    Models:
    4
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    11
    Bullshit. Newgen is nothing else but code injection and the integration of existing libraries like Jasshelper, Tesh, etc. It doesn't matter which editor version it is using, unless blizzard really adds new features to the editor which I highly doubt. The only thing we can expect in this regard might be a new native or two which can easily be added to Newgen by updating the .j files.

    Writing a Newgen from scratch is a monumental task. This is why WEX pretty much provides nothing of the functionality that Newgen does yet. You won't do this in a couple of weeks. People worked on Newgen for years to get it in the state it is now.

    Also, it's not a big deal for blizzard to support Newgen forever. All features we requested for the editor can pretty much be solved by giving us new JASS natives. We never requested big changes to the editor, just new functions, so why should blizzard even invest time into it? This pretty much sums down to "never change a running system".

    So, yes Newgen IS future proof unless Blizzard really fucks something up like they did in 1.28.

    Also, blizzard clearly stated that they care about not breaking backwards compatibility to old maps. Guess what: almost all old maps were created with Newgen, so they kinda have to roll with it anyway.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
    Zwiebelchen, Apr 21, 2017
    #12
  13. MindWorX

    MindWorX

    Blizzard Developer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    689
    Resources:
    5
    Tools:
    1
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    5
    Lets first cover how Blizzard initially broke JNGP, or more specifically, Grimoire which is what makes JNGP work. This happened already in version 1.22, when they decided to change compiler. To figure out why this is a problem, we'll take a look at how Grimoire works exactly. This is the information stored for the ObjectId hack, the little box that pops up when you create a new object, which lets you set the id you want.
    Code (C):

    const char NewObjectIdPattern[] = {
       0x89,0x50,0x04,
       0x89,0x08,
       0xC7,0x43,0x24,0x01,0x00,0x00,0x00,
       0x8B,0xC2,
       0x5B,
       0x8B,0xE5
    };

    const char NewObjectIdMask[] = {
       0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,
       0xFF,0xFF,
       0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,
       0xFF,0xFF,
       0xFF,
       0xFF,0xFF
    };
     

    Grimoire works by scanning the memory for patterns. The mask is included so some bytes can be wildcards. This isn't used in this case. So, for the ObjectId hack to work, it needs to be able to find one match for the byte array in NewObjectIdPattern. As you can imagine, this approach is rather sensitive to changes in the source code, but if done correctly, it could theoretically be version agnostic for the most parts.

    This wasn't the case when Blizzard changed the compiler. The change resulted in tiny, but breaking changes. Instead of using the EAX register, it might now use the EDI register. Nothing that would affect the editor, but it broke JNGP completely.

    JassHelper relies on Grimoire to start it when the map saved. With Grimoire broken, this couldn't work anymore. TESH is a bit more lenient in this way. It simply detects when a window is created by hooking the windows API, and then overlays the existing editor with it's own functionality. It still has to be injected though, and with Grimoire dead, it wasn't going to happen.

    So now you can see, the version matters very much, which is why version 1.21 of WorldEdit.exe has been bundled with JNGP ever since.

    You're correct that the NewGen collection took a lot of time. It was only possible through the collaboration of dedicated people in the community. WEX is lacking, only because the tools created for JNGP are broken or outdated or haven't been deemed necessary yet. It's a process that takes time. The core functionality IS working. It can launch custom compilers, it can inject custom menus. It even comes with the object id hack, which was a royal pain to port.

    By now you obviously know this isn't the case. A minor change in their code can break everything.

    Blizzard aren't responsible to making sure our third party parsers will continue to work. They're concerned with making the actual JASS work, without compromising security. And when they break things like order ids, they're going to fix it as soon as they can.
     
    MindWorX, Apr 21, 2017
    #13
  14. Kam

    Kam

    Blizzard Associate Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,597
    Resources:
    22
    Models:
    8
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    12
    Resources:
    22
    To be more explicit Blizzard isn't going to be maintaining any third party software. JNGP has been discussed thoroughly including when Purge and I were there. They are aware of it's importance and speak with a number of community members including MindWorX so that the community may maintain or upgrade it's own software as it sees fit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
    Kam, Apr 21, 2017
    #14
  15. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,775
    Resources:
    11
    Models:
    4
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    11
    Thanks for the clarifications MindWorX; this wasn't meant as playing down your achievements in WEX in any way. In fact, I have WEX here on my system, I just don't use it because it doesn't come with Jasshelper or TESH by default.
     
    Zwiebelchen, Apr 21, 2017
    #15
  16. MindWorX

    MindWorX

    Blizzard Developer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    689
    Resources:
    5
    Tools:
    1
    Tutorials:
    4
    Resources:
    5
    It's fine, I just wanted to make sure people understood the process. These hacks are far from simple. :) I'm not sure which version of WEX you got. Both are bundled with it.
     
    MindWorX, Apr 21, 2017
    #16
  17. Neco

    Neco

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages:
    14
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Could we get an update on this from Blizzard or anyone in contact with them?
     
    Neco, Apr 25, 2017
    #17
  18. Kam

    Kam

    Blizzard Associate Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,597
    Resources:
    22
    Models:
    8
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    12
    Resources:
    22
    Patch is basically ready. I'll try and nail down a date for you.
     
    Kam, Apr 25, 2017
    #18
  19. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,775
    Resources:
    11
    Models:
    4
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    11
    3 weeks have gone by and the hotfix for order IDs is still pending -.-
     
    Zwiebelchen, Apr 27, 2017
    #19
  20. pyf

    pyf

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,150
    Resources:
    2
    Tutorials:
    2
    Resources:
    2
    In the meantime, StarCraft has been updated to version 1.18.2 twelve hours ago or so...
    :con:
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
    pyf, Apr 27, 2017
    #20
Page 1 of 2