Of exports and allowance.

[Titan_to_aoe]

should the hive, after all the debate about wow rips in the past, allow wow rips into the scii section?

YOU decide! its your RIGHT as members of this community that has stood for so long and prospered as the greatest wc3 resorce depo. of the wc3 era!


And please, Ralle, PLEASE take the results of this poll into cosideration.

 

[En_Fuego]

Who cares? If you want WoW rips do them yourself.

 

[fladdermasken]

I have to side with En_Fuego on this one.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Isn't that... Going against originality lol ?

 

[Jaret]

No. No rips.

 

[Weep]

YOU decide! its your RIGHT as members of this community that has stood for so long and prospered as the greatest wc3 resorce depo. of the wc3 era!

LOL?

That might mean we have some power to convince Ralle, but not the right to decide. If the facts are still that 1. Ralle owns the server as his own property, and 2. WoW rips are illegal, then I don't think there's any debate to have.

 

[Crazed_seal2]

If you don't like the rules. Then we dont like you.

The reason why wow rips are forbidden is because its illegal.

Yes. I think they granted it for SC2. But not for Warcraft 3.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The strange thing is that they violate the site rules yet we approve maps and host projects which use them... Everyone could just download the map and extract the model from it and thus we are not really enforcing the no WoW port rule as it is.

There are hundreds of approved WoW ported icons in the resource section. I do not see any exception in the rules covering them anymore.

I raised this to attention about a month ago and talks on the mater did occur but currently no results have occured next to moderatly strong support.

For now I have decided to ignore the no WoW port rule when moderating SC2 resources as its definition is not even suited for the SC2 section. I am going largly by how much effort was put in, is it correctly credited and will blizzard remove it if it were uploaded to battlenet 2.0. As maps with WoW models have been in the top 10 list for many months in the past and not removed (map still exists) I assume that blizzard has no or little problems with people using them in SC2.

This however still means that ports from other games like warhammer will get removed as blizzard is legally obliged to remove them from their service if spotted (unlike its own content as internal lawsuits are rather rare and frankly rather stupid).

Ofcourse this is exposed to potential changes in the future. If a heavy no WoW pollicy is addopted you could see many currently approved icons and maps removed.

 

[Hawkwing]

As maps with WoW models have been in the top 10 list for many months in the past and not removed (map still exists) I assume that blizzard has no or little problems with people using them in SC2.

I think the fact that Blizzard has featured maps with frequent uses of WoW Models is enough of a guarantee that they don't mind, however I personally don't want this rule to be abolished. I feel that by allowing their submission, we are supporting WoW Exports to some degree and that is not something I agree with. The use of these assets feels somewhat lazy and often doesn't look very good - I will accept that there aren't many alternatives at this point though.

 

[SA Dashie]

To tell you the truth I don't really care about WoW rips, its just that I don't want the model section spammed with non original already made models that where purposely made for and only for a entirely different game.

 

[Rui]

For Warcraft III? Never. WoW models actually fit, more or less, into StarCraft II due to the graphics, but WoW models in Wc3 look bad. And yes, Blizzard themselves seem to be ignoring the use of WoW models in SC2, which means that, in the future, we could accept... rips or a sort of rips assuming they're well ported, with diffusive and specular maps. Still, I don't much like the idea of having a section full of ported models.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Seeing mapster are doing it, I see no to not use WoW models .. in sc2 (because maybe they dont fit too much in war3). Because Blizzard for instance invited one of their guys (mapster) to test HotS and maybe give an opinion on some editor issues, so they do follow that site and must be aware of them using WoW stuff too...

I personally have no use of them as I dont do WoW related things. Other game rips... especially from too old game sthat no one ever cares about Im fine with that. But other games' models may not be OK because it is another company and may not like seeing someone using their stuff in another game but from Blizzard to Blizzard what's up with that?.. I've seen no official post about Blizzard not liking the use of these models so to me that is a bit a silly rule based on nothing.

You sound like the Church that creates its own rules and all people follow the rules blindly no matter if they are God's will or if there is God at all. Here's the deal, if Blizzard are against it, Im also for not allowing but if they don't care, wtf is this rule for again? To make more drawing and hard work? See mapster use it, no one tells them anything, they do less work big deal make awesome maps, who wins from these rules you or them?

 

[Aeroblyctos]

If something is already approved, why not all?

 

[Adiktuz]

I believe its fine for maps, so I think we should not reject maps that has WoW rips, but if you upload it as a separate resource then its another issue since it is Blizzards work not yours... but if the rip is from a game that is not Blizzard Property then I think it should get rejected right away...

I think the reason why Blizzard didn't mind them is because its Blizzard Property being used in another Blizzard Property (be it SC2 or wc3) but if you use it on a stand-alone or a game using another engine, I'm sure Blizzard would take action for that...

 

[Tleno]

Isn't that... Going against originality lol ?

There's nothing original in taking a model from another game and claiming it as your own.

Glad to see most of people agree that this shouldn't be allowed.

 

[D a w n]

if you want fantasy themed models for your sc2 maps, go and do them yourself like real men would do. That's what wc3 always stood for and what sc2 should stand for aswell: a game (almost completely) modded by its comunity.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

There's nothing original in taking a model from another game and claiming it as your own.

Glad to see most of people agree that this shouldn't be allowed.

Lol that's what I meant.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

[reaction="http://www.buzzhunt.co.uk/wp-content/2011/01/cool-story-bro.jpg"]It seems you've underestimated who supports your cause, frankly this was a really dumb move as you never took the time to actually see the actual opinion of the site. If you want WoW rips there's other places you can find them, posting them here would be pointless and illegal.[/reaction]



As for "Let the users decide," when you start paying for the server perhaps then you can be the one to make demands like this, until then you can kindly try to hold in your "viva la revolution" sentiments.

~closed~

 

[Hakeem]

For Warcraft III? Never. WoW models actually fit, more or less, into StarCraft II due to the graphics, but WoW models in Wc3 look bad.

Well, then wouldn't it be more accurate to abstract the Genuinity rule to all resources? We want all resources to fit stylistically into the target game, right?

Renaming thread for clarity, and reopening because Misha's got a wrench to throw in here.

Also I'd recommend people read DSG's post.

Get me on chat if you want the poll changed.

 

[Kuhneghetz]

My answer to this thread:

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Gah, wrenches?

The answer is:

NO

 

[Hakeem]

Gah, wrenches?

Yes! And it's huge!



Okay maybe not, but in light of the other wrenches we overlook, we've got quite a clogged cog set.

The answer is:

NO

Clearly someone has overlooked DSG's post.

(Which was clearly about wrenches.)

 

[Misha]

Well, then wouldn't it be more accurate to abstract the Genuinity rule to all resources? We want all resources to fit stylistically into the target game, right?

Renaming thread for clarity, and reopening because Misha's got a wrench to throw in here.

You see.. I have made a Protodrake model from scratch, have UWd it myself and now I am awaiting someone to do the texture.

However.. I am not skilled enough to make my own animations that would be like the animations of the WoW Protodrake.

My question is; If i only borrow the animations from the WoW model and rig my drake to them, would that be approve-able? the rules clearly state that If a model is heavily modified, it would be accepted.

Just to put my opinion, I think it would be a great waste to not approve the model I've put a lot of work in, just because it has WoW skeleton and animations..

..there you go..

 

[Hawkwing]

You see.. I have made a Protodrake model from scratch, have UWd it myself and now I am awaiting someone to do the texture.

However.. I am not skilled enough to make my own animations that would be like the animations of the WoW Protodrake.

My question is; If i only borrow the animations from the WoW model and rig my drake to them, would that be approve-able? the rules clearly state that If a model is heavily modified, it would be accepted.

Just to put my opinion, I think it would be a great waste to not approve the model I've put a lot of work in, just because it has WoW skeleton and animations..

..there you go..

If I'm entitled to an opinion on this, I would say yes, granted that you give the appropriate credits.

 

[Linaze]

An argument that keeps returning when this subject is discussed is that it would be illegal to use WoW models and/or other resources in Warcraft 3 maps. I'd like to call this argument invalid, though, for several reasons.

First of all: Blizzard clearly does not have anything against us using their WoW icons, they even uploaded them to wc3sear.ch back in the days. Because of this, I doubt they'd mind if we borrowed something else from WoW. Then again, I also understand that uploaded icons does not give us direct permission to use these other resources (mainly models and animations, I assume).

Furthermore, Samwise himself has stated that he thinks WoW rips in Warcraft 3 are cool which should be taken as Blizzard not caring too much about the legal aspect as much as the coolness-factor, so to say.

Finally, Blizzard has put fan-made maps containing WoW models on their very own map spotlight page. If the WoW models was as law-breaking as some people make it sound, why would the owners of these very models do this?

There are obviously other arguments against WoW rips on the Hive and in Warcraft 3 maps, but this one is the one I most commonly hear, and I just had to respond to it.

Thanks for reading.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

I agree with Linaze. Dats all, peeeaaaauuuuuce.

 

[busterkomo]

Who cares? If you want WoW rips do them yourself.

Not everyone has the ability to do so.

The strange thing is that they violate the site rules yet we approve maps and host projects which use them... Everyone could just download the map and extract the model from it and thus we are not really enforcing the no WoW port rule as it is.

Indeed, and there's nothing stopping someone from creating a mediocre map and using it as a depository for World of Warcraft models.

For Warcraft III? Never.

They looked fine as long as they weren't a straight import. If I remember correctly, Advent of the Zenith utilized World of Warcraft models successfully.

Still, I don't much like the idea of having a section full of ported models.

You're confusing a resource section with an art gallery.

 

[Cweener]

If the ports are good enough, if not beyond that of average icon/model/etc... quality, then go for approval if you like.

I don't mind it. As long as they are good enough to get approved if they were scratch models/icons/whatever...

 

[Orcnet]

I have to agree with Misha, because technically, animations from Wow rips can be useful tools at all for others who wants to take its similarity and for those who can't make good animations and such.

but looking closer about Wow rips, I don't think taking them as a new source of creativity won't just make it better, I mean they don't look that good enough for me, so I'll just take my reasons about its animations instead.

 

[Adiktuz]

For me, uploading them as a direct resource (meaning no edits made) would be bad... but for maps using them I believe its fine...

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

The rules pretty much already allow uploads of rips if they're enough edited, of course enough edited is up to the discretion of the resource moderator but it's in the rules for that sort of thing.

Most people pretty much already use animations from wc3 models for their own wc3 models, is this really that much of a difference just because it's a different game (WoW to Sc2)?

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

my only problem with wow rips is that people who use the said rips tend to rely completely on the fact that they have a wow rip instead of actually making a proper game with a proper gameplay. and the people who do rely on wow rips to push their maps forward tends to spam these wow models UNNECESSARILY.
so what do we get? shitty maps with incredibly large file sizes.

"oh surely, things cant be that bad." prowling the request section and probing every requester who comes in chat tells me otherwise.

in terms of legality, if blizzard dont really care, fine.

 

[Tleno]

You know, I myself don't really like mind if animations are taken from a model. I mean, Wow models have pretty nice animations and these are hard to make for most of modelers... but when people just take an entire model... that's just wrong.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

my only problem with wow rips is that people who use the said rips tend to rely completely on the fact that they have a wow rip instead of actually making a proper game with a proper gameplay. and the people who do rely on wow rips to push their maps forward tends to spam these wow models UNNECESSARILY.
so what do we get? shitty maps with incredibly large file sizes.

"oh surely, things cant be that bad." prowling the request section and probing every requester who comes in chat tells me otherwise.

in terms of legality, if blizzard dont really care, fine.

Well they don't necessarily work in Wc3 (in terms of filesize, look, etc.) so they'd probably be confined to the Sc2 section. Sc2's editor isn't exactly easy to make a map if you don't know what you're doing so that'd probably be kept to a minimum.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

My views...

You should be able to use them in Starcraft II Maps (not Warcraft III).
You should NOT be able to upload them as a stand-alone resource, you don't deserve 'credit' for ripping a model.

In a nutshell, we all KNOW Blizzard doesn't have a problem with it, why people claim otherwise I don't know. Do you really need them to spell it out?

But it seems pointless, illogical and unfair to allow people to upload rips and have them listed on their resource tab. Not to mention you'd end up with way too many uploads to handle and/or even duplicates and how do you 'rate' a rip? lmao

It doesn't take any skill to rip a model but it does give the potential to improve a map if used tastefully, so I think maps with WoW models should be allowed, but not WoW models themselves.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

I think Blizzard are OK with someone using casually some WoW model, for a map consisting entirely of WoW interface and units im not sure. But it is the site's decision if this will be allowed. Example: People are allowed to be stupid and post stupid threads as long as they are not spam or violate whatver other terms. THW allows it but TL for instance deletes them and closes also bans, despite it is generally OK to be stupid, TL rule - site rule. Same with WoW here even if in other places such as mapster is fine. But the argument that 'it is easy to ask for when you don't pay for the bandwidth here' is reasonable unless it doesn't require more payment.

I remember when there used to be hundreds of WoW icons, you needed a Rope, some Food icons, equipment, you could have them from here. wc3sear.ch had them.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Allowing the uploading of WoW resources wouldn't have any significant impact on bandwidth, but your right, ultimately there's little this thread will achieve, better going direct to the head/s of authority.

 

[GIANT_CRAB]

Hm, I think we should allow RIPS but there must be a big red text saying "This is a RIP, hive will hold no responsibility in terms of legalities." And also, don't allow anyone to rep that resource or give ratings.

 

[Skycraft]

Well I'm largely against rips because of one the file size is too big and secondly it's a cheap way of getting models which you will learn nothing from. Doing the models yourself is actually a much more productive use of your time because of all the glorious fun things you can put on your custom model while learning new techniques, and you might be able to replicate a rip to a much smaller size (despite not being the better on looks).

But hey, if you are looking for rips just find some on Google. Last time I checked here in the modelling section they promote skill not stupidity.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Hm, I think we should allow RIPS but there must be a big red text saying "This is a RIP, hive will hold no responsibility in terms of legalities." And also, don't allow anyone to rep that resource or give ratings.

People can find other sites for direct rips, they have no place here

 

[Devine]

LOL
Ridiculous.

 

[Klipso]

maybe ive been gone too long what is a "WoW rip"?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

maybe ive been gone too long what is a "WoW rip"?

A model directly exported from world of warcraft

 

[Kitabatake]

Personally I don't care whether wow resources are allowed or not, but I can't see the actual legal issue.

The worst case scenario is Blizzard sending a message to take down the ripped resources,
which sounds very unlikely seeing their passively accepting attitude towards resources ripped from and used in their own games.

 

[Super-Sheep]

Well if that would be allowed then it would be also allowed to upload other models that are not made by yourself.

So yeah * this logic?

 

[Linaze]

You are allowed to upload models not made by yourself already, although it requires permission by the author. The same would apply to WoW models, of course, and as for models (and other resources for that matter) from WoW I'm pretty sure we already have the author's (Blizzard's) permission.

 

[Hakeem]

Then we can make Hive's stance even stricter: You must have permission from all authors, legally recognized or otherwise.

Personally, I think if IP has any value, then it is to the actual author's direct will, bypassing anything they "willingly" delegate that right to.

So if you want to upload a game export, you've got some research to do. :3


What I'm getting out of this is that WoW exports (or exports from any other game) are unacceptable either stylistically or credit-wise. We've already got general resource rules about credit, so is there any reason not to abstract the Genuity rule for Spells to all resources?

 

[Linaze]

If I made a model from scratch based off of a WoW model, could it be approved, considering how it won't fit with the other War3 models?

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

We have tanks in the Wc3 section, I don't think "fitting in" is a problem
It's more or less the impractical abundance of polies and such in the WoW models that make them not work well as direct rips, in Sc2 that's not exactly a problem though

 

[Adiktuz]

and again, it will just populate The Hive with those high file size models which are just ripped... and since there are sites who has them, why not just put a link on the models section saying, "For those needing WoW rips, go here..."

but the policy should stay for individual resources, for maps, we should let them be...