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New Suggersted Spell Moderator

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Hello there Hive! As far as I can tell is that Hive currently only have two Spell Moderators that is as active as they can (Do not want to mention their names) and that is far from enough. Since I started to be around here (26th January 2009) I've got alot of help and alot of answers from a guy that I believe is one of the most active persons around here at hive. So, since about 2010 I've always thought about to suggest him as a spell mod to Hive. Anyways, I havent spoken with him yet but I'm pretty sure he'd like to be a mod since it's also good for this site. We have alot of spells that haven't been reviewed. Including some of my own spells. Actually, it is a system but back to topic. The one I want to nominate for this is called :fp:Pharaoh_ and is way more qualified to be a Spell Moderator than he should be.

He knows alot about JASS/vJASS and GUI Triggers. Everytime I've tried to help someone in the Triggers & Scripts section he's always been quicker than me to reply an even tripple or more greater solution that I can only dream about to come up with myself. I've also seen that he's almost all the time the Last Poster of a thread which can mean that his solution worked and the thread isn't longer needed for the creator of the issue thread.

So, I'd like to nominate him and I know that I have alot of users thinking the same. The only problem might be that he or Ralle refuse. Also, I know that this isn't my business and I dont want to highlight him or something but I believe that a user should be able to nominate another user for something or, in this case, help the site, since we need more spell mods.

Btw, Sorry for my bad english. From sweden.:grin:

Best Regards

- tjordell (Tom)

EDIT: Woops, the title should be "New Suggested Spell Moderator" not "New Suggersted Spell Moderator". -.-
 
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This is really nice of you, tjordell, but I seriously believe that there are more qualified and/or appropriate persons than me to do this.
I was in fact asked by TriggerHappy once, but I wasn't that familiar with vJass back then.
However, since my reply doesn't lean positively to your suggestion, don't feel bad about it, I in fact thank you for your consideration, although we haven't been in touch lately :)
 
Level 11
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Pharaoh_, you're wrong about that others are more qualified than you because I've understand 29 out of 30 of your solutions at once, while maybe another need to explain to me multiple times because they always talk about functions and stuffs like that which I dont understands or tells me to use some JASS stuff that I dont even know how to add to the map/spell.

I wouldn't be more satisfied if my spells/systems was reviewed by you because then I'd get a more understanding solution/result if the spell/system gets rejected/approven.

Of course, its all your choice. But I just want you to know that from my part, you deserve to be a Spell Moderator more than anyone here. And I know that there's ALOT more that think so too.

- tjordell (Tom)
 
You are involving World Editor Help Zone and Triggers & Scripts forums with the Spells' section.
I doubt any moderator will incline you to switch to Jass, in an uploaded resource. They will in fact give you heads-up as to what should be edited/changed, so that the resource becomes more efficient and by extension rightfully given to the community.
If you feel you are treated unfairly, review-wise, contact the moderator.

Back to topic, Spells section might be troublesome, but I insist I am not the best person to narrow it down. :)
 

Bribe

Code Moderator
Level 50
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I'm in support of Pharaoh_ as well. In fact, I've been recommending it
for a long time. I could quick-review spells like I was when I first started,
but then the results wouldn't be thorough or maybe be too strict. The
thing is you have to take time with each resource to make sure it has a
fair assessment.

Having Maker and myself as moderators is keeping the new submissions
at bay - but it is not shrinking the list. As they say in German: "Aller guten
Dinge sind drei".

Funny enough, Pharaoh_ and Maker are the ones who helped me the most
when I was starting out as a new member here. I don't really feel I am as
qualified as either of them in most areas. So that should also stand as a
reason to encourage Pharaoh_'s ascension.
 
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I don't think Purge would want to moderator code resources. He seems pretty busy ^)^.


I think what the code resources section needs to look for are good GUI coders as well as people who know vJASS/JASS. There are a lot of GUI resources, and there is no reason not to find people who only know GUI. There are many more people who know and are good with GUI than people who know and are good with vJASS/JASS. By finding GUI users, this allows vJASS/JASS users to focus more on the regular submissions.

By getting a team of 15-25 people, this makes it so that moderators only need to review one resource every couple of days, making it a much easier job. Moderating shouldn't be a full time job >: P.

In one day, 11 new resources submitted. 2 days later, another 7 were submitted. A team of 15-25 people was not an arbitrary number. A team of that size ensures that every resource that gets submitted will be reviewed quickly. Furthermore, this'll enable the team to re-review older submissions from a long time ago to see if they are any good.

Also, if deprecated tags were to be introduced, this would enable the team to look up any old resources similar to the one they are reviewing to see if those older ones should be deprecated by the current one.

There should also be a new system implemented if a team of this size were to become a reality. There should be a list of new resources to be reviewed (moderator tool). When someone begins reviewing a resource (click review now or something), then that resource is removed from the list. When they click done reviewing, if they haven't moderated it, then it is added back to the list. If they have, it stays off of the list.


This would make it so that 2 people don't end up moderating the same resource, thus making planning much easier.


Furthermore, moderators can add older resources to the list to be re-reviewed, or perhaps every 1 year (when a resource becomes 1 year old), resources are re-added to the list to be re-reviewed in light of new possible standards =).


I believe that these changes are the next best step for the spells section.



As for the JASS section, I feel that it should be merged with the Spells section and that the Spells section should be renamed Code or something, representing GUI, JASS, vJASS, etc code resources =). From here, a snippet category can be added for smaller resources or w/e. By adding functions here, it also makes it easier to find them (via search) than looking in the small code snippets area (which is a total mess).


The next thing that needs to be fixed is relevancy in the searches... it seems pretty bad =). iGen has less relevancy to save/load than non save/load resources =P.


I had actually contacted admin 3 days ago about the various things in this post =).
 
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15-25 spell moderators? Did you actually say that or is the fact that I haven't slept for 30+ hours playing tricks with me?


I actually said that, and those are how many people there should be in the section to keep the work load down for each person. Asking mods to review 1-2 resources every single day with no breaks is I think asking too much for people who are essentially volunteering their time.


Really, everyone who could mod this stuff and is responsible enough not to abuse the power should mod this stuff =). We're a community after all ^)^. I even help review a resource here and there when the resource intrigues me and I'm in the mood : ).


And really, I think a resource should have 2 or 3 reviews on it before it is approved. People might miss things =). In a moderator tool, when a moderator approves a resource, it should increase the count. If there is even 1 moderator against approving it, then it won't be approved until that moderator retracts their disapproval ^)^. But really, to have 2 or 3 reviews, there'd need to be at least 30-45 people moderating.


There are a lot of resources submitted every single day. It's unfair to ask a few people to review 5-10 submissions every day. That's the reason why I refuse to help with it. 1 a week for me would be more than enough.
 
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first it was about 2 (and 1 or 2 being added). then it was about 15-25. now 30-45? okay, thats not a bad idea but its still...overdoing it(?) in my oppinion.
 
Level 31
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If you can assemble 15-25 or 30-45 people who are skilled, able and willing to moderate the spell section, I'll name my first son Nestharus.

You're totally on >: P

Here's the start of my list prospectives list
Code:
Magtheridon96
busterkomo
BBQ
Troll-Brain
D4RK_G4ND4LF
WaterKnight
Tank-Commander
Rmx
Tiche3
Justify
iAyanami
Garfield1337
Beef_Is_Back
mckill2009
baassee
Axarion
-Derp-
kingking
BlackRose

-------
19

More to be added =)

Shooting for 40 prospectives as I'm hoping at least 50% will go for it = )


Besides some of the people mentioned on this thread, these are the people I think are good enough to be mods. They may not be perfect, but they're good enough =).

edit
Actually, I think BBQ is quite good =). He seems to know his stuff.
 
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Level 48
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Maybe a good night's sleep will help you relax
those nerves.

You have NO idea how correct you are...

@Nestharus, you're insane. You have NO IDEA what kind of chaos will having ~30 moderators bring. The rating system will go completely off-scale since every single one of them will have their own vision of what's a "good" spell and what's a "bad" spell, making the rating of a spell depend entirely on what kind of moderator is moderating it. Many moderators will probably assume 'the rest are doing the work', so there's 'no need to bother with moderating'. At least half of them will not be available at all times. The quality of the moderator reviews and the moderators themselves will differ SIGNIFICANTLY. Not all of them will be just as skilled as the rest. Many of them will probably suck big time at their job, but on one will care because 'there's enough good people to cover up for the bad people'. And there's many, MANY other reasons why this idea won't work: For example, I doubt we even HAVE ~30 people who are good at reviewing(proper grammar and whatnot) AND at making spells, not to mention being good in every single field(JASS, vJass, GUI, ZINC, etc).
 
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I don't need people good at every field. I think the site needs a combo of people good with GUI and a combo of people good with JASS, vJASS, and Zinc.


As for the numbers of moderators, I addressed that issue (well, the reviewing portion).


Also, I think a good system is to make it so that moderators who aren't that great should get a second opinion from someone experienced until they themselves get better. Everyone will get better over time. Furthermore, the person who wrote the submission and other members in the community can help.


Also, the majority of people in that list are very experienced.
 
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The idea here is to spread out the work so moderators only need to review one new submission every 2-3 days =P. The idea of only a couple of moderators just seems to be way too much work. I know that between Bribe's moderating, his job, and his wife, he has almost no time. I think he modded for like 8 hours avg every day for a while : \. Maker appears to be helping tons and modding tons as well....


It's just too much work >.<


Old resources need to be looked over eventually as well to make sure that everything is up to snuff. Resources should really be reviewed once a year in order to ensure that they are kept up to the standards.
 
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Ok, since i was mentionned by Nestharus i would like to answer it.
I hardly see how i could be a spell moderator, since i've never submitted myself any spell.
That would be weird ...

Nor a jass moderator, since i would reject each Nestharus' resource, because of the horrible naming convention.

In fact i think i would just be an ashole, not a good and comprehensive mod, so it's a no for me.
And i don't think Nestharus should be a mod to, he is not enough friendly for that.
 
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I may know GUI/JASS/vJASS, but Im certainly not capable for being a moderator of spells because I am so Stubborn...intead of doing this, I do that or I do 'my way' coz as you have noticed, my spells are not based on vJASS standards in order for it to improve, also I'm too busy with my job but still have time to go online even every hour...

Lastly, my english/grammar is not good, haha...
 
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So, since about 2010 I've always thought about to suggest him as a spell mod to Hive. Anyways, I havent spoken with him yet but I'm pretty sure he'd like to be a mod since it's also good for this site. Pharaoh_ and is way more qualified to be a Spell Moderator than he should be.
Last I checked (which, admittedly, was probably close to a year ago), his spells were either completely GUI or pseudo-JASS, so I'm now leery as to what impresses you in that regard.

He knows alot about JASS/vJASS and GUI Triggers.
How can one know a lot about GUI? By being literate?

If someone is gonna be a mod, the admins will go to them.
In the past, the administration often encouraged suggestions for spell moderators specifically because none of the administrators had any moderate level of knowledge or experience in the area (except for PurplePoot).

I could quick-review spells like I was when I first started,
but then the results wouldn't be thorough or maybe be too strict. The
thing is you have to take time with each resource to make sure it has a
fair assessment.
Addressed somewhere below (see helper elves).

No one ever mentions The_Reborn_Devil :/
Which shows how active of a presence he has in the spells section.

He doesn't enough time on his hands for moderating spells right now.
And hasn't in eons (from what I remember).

there are a few good coders here, I pick Pharaoh_ first and Nesthaurus...btw it is possible to moderate 2 sections?, if yes then why not ask PurgeAndFire as well, he's also capable...
Purge has had massive activity problems in the past, so I wouldn't recommend it.

I fail to see how something so simple as formatting a block of
text can tickle your nerves so much you'd consider yourself
pissed off by it. Maybe a good night's sleep will help you relax
those nerves.
People always seem less intelligent writing in blocks. It could just be me, though.

I think what the code resources section needs to look for are good GUI coders as well as people who know vJASS/JASS. There are a lot of GUI resources, and there is no reason not to find people who only know GUI. There are many more people who know and are good with GUI than people who know and are good with vJASS/JASS. By finding GUI users, this allows vJASS/JASS users to focus more on the regular submissions.
Contrary to popular belief, you cannot 'know' GUI without knowing JASS to some moderate level competently. Furthermore, the moderator's knowledge would not be consistent with the level of excellence we try to achieve here.

By getting a team of 15-25 people, this makes it so that moderators only need to review one resource every couple of days, making it a much easier job. Moderating shouldn't be a full time job >: P.
That number is not only excessive, but unrealistic. If I ever came back to moderating spells, I would want it to be an active team (say, ~4 people), and not me and some helper elves (which was the case way back when).

And really, I think a resource should have 2 or 3 reviews on it before it is approved. People might miss things =).
Which isn't much of a problem. If a moderator misses something in a review, it will either:
A) Already be mentioned somewhere on the spell's thread by another user.
B) Be later noticed by the author and corrected.
C) Be found by some user later on, who then PMs the moderator and his him fix his review.

If you can assemble 15-25 or 30-45 people who are skilled, able and willing to moderate the spell section, I'll name my first son Nestharus.
I'll even bet my rare candy on it.
 

Bribe

Code Moderator
Level 50
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People always seem less intelligent writing in blocks. It could just be me, though.

There's a good reason for it, especially on big screens where the text can get
really stretched out, the eyes have to scan far from right to left a lot and this
becomes a psychological deterrent so fewer people will read it.

In regards to the helper elves, I wouldn't mind having those back because it
gives people the feeling of responsibility to moderate. It's more impressionable
than simply making a normal post that shares the same rank as noobie posts
that just say "omg awesome" or "this is the suck".

Nonetheless it's pretty wispy and in the end useless. Still, I think overall it'd be
nice to have as a feature again. There are some resources that really require
special attention.
 
Level 16
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Messages
1,106
The Spell Section does not necessarily need more moderators at this moment.
It seems to me that most of the Pending resources in there, are only set to be pending
and are reviewed by a Moderator.

I am not quite sure if only Bribe sets the status to Pending if there is something amiss
on the resource.

There are, ofcourse, some skilled, willing and known people who could fit to be an
moderator in the Spells section. Some listed by Nes, and some that remain a little bit
of "underground".

Most of the reasons why people do not really review the resources properly, is because
they are lazy. I myself only write reviews based on how bored I am at the moment,
same goes with doing spells/systems as well~ If I am bored, I will do it. If I am not,
I will not do it. Also motivation is one thing that people lack nowadays.
 

Rui

Rui

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My main objective with mini-moderators was to have a more democratic system when it comes to moderation -- to take in account every opinion, do the average, and decide official moderation rating and resource status based on that.
A few of the names suggested by Nestharus could potentially be spells mini-moderators.
 
Level 16
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My main objective with mini-moderators was to have a more democratic system when it comes to moderation -- to take in account every opinion, do the average, and decide official moderation rating and resource status based on that.
A few of the names suggested by Nestharus could potentially be spells mini-moderators.

you could use that system for everything, you could get some mini-mods aswell..
 
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Well, keep in mind that a lot of people who became resource moderators weren't good enough to do the job initially, but rather have gotten good enough after being a moderator for a while ; ). For example, Bribe ; p


There really are virtually no people who are truly qualified to be a moderator. For example, if I submitted a pathing system, how many people could actually comment on the algorithm used? How many people know the A* Pathing Algorithm, or understand priority queues with binary heaps. If I wrote a Red Black Tree, how many people could actually comment on the code (algorithms etc) in relation to standard red black tree practices. Most people don't even know what a red black tree is ; P.


Some of the resources I write are approved without being tested or reviewed. Even if the code I wrote was 100% readable and heavily documented, some of the techniques I use are highly advanced, techniques you'd learn when you'd be going for your master's degree in computer science. When a moderator ends up looking at my comments etc for the techniques used, they just take my technique as the best way to do it since they know of no other ways to do it (not educated enough in computer science to suggest a better algorithm). In this way, it's pointless to review any advanced resource I write -.-. You can't review something if you yourself aren't familiar with the algorithms used and know of various ways to do it.


Really, the only qualified people for truly moderating resources would be those people who have been coding for years and understand all of the algorithms, structures, and etc, that way they can truly submit valuable feedback. It is also not the responsibility of the submitter to teach the moderator common algorithms and structures, like what a binary heap is.


On thehelper.net, someone was trying to write some sorting utilities. They initially tried it with a bubble sort and I said that that was about the worst sorting algorithm they could use. They then moved to a heap sort, and I again said that there are better ways. Now they are doing a merge sort, but their merge sort algorithm is awful.


Can the current moderators on this site recognize a sorting algorithm used from just glancing at the code and determine whether the algorithm used for that sorting was executed well or not?


I guess THW's real problem is that there is almost nobody in the community qualified to be a moderator. The only real solution is to have moderators of different tiers that are allowed to moderate resources up to a certain complexity. The fact is that there is no way THW will ever get enough truly qualified moderators that are able to moderate every resource. That'd be like asking for 10 PhDs in computer science ;p.


The good news is that THW doesn't need a lot of advanced moderators because not a lot of advanced resources are submitted to THW. In the same regards, more very simple GUI resources are submitted than simple JASS/vJASS resources, and more simple resources are submitted than semi-simple resources, and etc... as the complexity grows, the number submitted shrinks. This is why I think THW can get away with a lot of moderators who only have a basic understand of even GUI, like spotting memory leaks. Most submissions only have problems with memory leaks, and those are easy to find. Does THW need truly qualified people?


This was the stance I took when recommending all of the people I did. A moderator shouldn't be required to know JASS/vJASS. There are many more GUI resources submitted than JASS/vJASS resources. Also, by following this philosophy, the very talented moderators can focus on complex resources rather than wasting their time looking for memory leaks in a simple GUI spell.
 
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Well, keep in mind that a lot of people who became resource moderators weren't good enough to do the job initially, but rather have gotten good enough after being a moderator for a while ; ). For example, Bribe ; p

to be more correct; you can train any one up, even with a very low talent. In this kind of moderation are you able to train and raise them as a moderator?
 
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to be more correct; you can train any one up, even with a very low talent. In this kind of moderation are you able to train and raise them as a moderator?

You need coding experience either way, knowing the languages is a + and also other languages as C java python ruby or whatever. Even a bit of the other languages helps a lot in the understanding part.
 
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Well, keep in mind that a lot of people who became resource moderators weren't good enough to do the job initially, but rather have gotten good enough after being a moderator for a while ; ). For example, Bribe ; p


There really are virtually no people who are truly qualified to be a moderator. For example, if I submitted a pathing system, how many people could actually comment on the algorithm used? How many people know the A* Pathing Algorithm, or understand priority queues with binary heaps. If I wrote a Red Black Tree, how many people could actually comment on the code (algorithms etc) in relation to standard red black tree practices. Most people don't even know what a red black tree is ; P.


Some of the resources I write are approved without being tested or reviewed. Even if the code I wrote was 100% readable and heavily documented, some of the techniques I use are highly advanced, techniques you'd learn when you'd be going for your master's degree in computer science. When a moderator ends up looking at my comments etc for the techniques used, they just take my technique as the best way to do it since they know of no other ways to do it (not educated enough in computer science to suggest a better algorithm). In this way, it's pointless to review any advanced resource I write -.-. You can't review something if you yourself aren't familiar with the algorithms used and know of various ways to do it.


Really, the only qualified people for truly moderating resources would be those people who have been coding for years and understand all of the algorithms, structures, and etc, that way they can truly submit valuable feedback. It is also not the responsibility of the submitter to teach the moderator common algorithms and structures, like what a binary heap is.


On thehelper.net, someone was trying to write some sorting utilities. They initially tried it with a bubble sort and I said that that was about the worst sorting algorithm they could use. They then moved to a heap sort, and I again said that there are better ways. Now they are doing a merge sort, but their merge sort algorithm is awful.


Can the current moderators on this site recognize a sorting algorithm used from just glancing at the code and determine whether the algorithm used for that sorting was executed well or not?


I guess THW's real problem is that there is almost nobody in the community qualified to be a moderator. The only real solution is to have moderators of different tiers that are allowed to moderate resources up to a certain complexity. The fact is that there is no way THW will ever get enough truly qualified moderators that are able to moderate every resource. That'd be like asking for 10 PhDs in computer science ;p.


The good news is that THW doesn't need a lot of advanced moderators because not a lot of advanced resources are submitted to THW. In the same regards, more very simple GUI resources are submitted than simple JASS/vJASS resources, and more simple resources are submitted than semi-simple resources, and etc... as the complexity grows, the number submitted shrinks. This is why I think THW can get away with a lot of moderators who only have a basic understand of even GUI, like spotting memory leaks. Most submissions only have problems with memory leaks, and those are easy to find. Does THW need truly qualified people?


This was the stance I took when recommending all of the people I did. A moderator shouldn't be required to know JASS/vJASS. There are many more GUI resources submitted than JASS/vJASS resources. Also, by following this philosophy, the very talented moderators can focus on complex resources rather than wasting their time looking for memory leaks in a simple GUI spell.

I agree with you, a moderator should take care of what he is best at, this way it will be more easy to get good moderators.

Example: If a expert of Gui wanted to become mod, and he is one of the best. If he does not know jass he cant join?, no that's a bad reason. The way he could be "Used" should be for Gui since that's what he is the best at.
 
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You don't need one of the best either... as I said, there are a lot more simple resources than complex ones submitted, so THW needs a lot more people with basic knowledge than advanced knowledge.


THW only needs a handful of advanced users.



As it stands right now, a lot of my stuff gets approved, no questions asked on algorithm, no review, no testing. I've had stuff get approved that have had bugs in it (albeit rare bugs ^^), and I'm typically the one who finds those bugs first as well ;p. Encoder is a prime example. Most people can't even figure out how to use Encoder let alone how it works ; p.
 
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Also, advanced moderators should know a language like c++ so that they can research solutions to problems that they aren't familiar with when encountering a solution to a problem, that way they can potentially find a better solution than the one presented ^)^.
You don't need one of the best either... as I said, there are a lot more simple resources than complex ones submitted, so THW needs a lot more people with basic knowledge than advanced knowledge.

Both are so true. Especially the last one.

EDIT:

Answer to your edit, it's you for god's sake. Never seen a bad resource from you ever.
 
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