New Suggersted Spell Moderator

[Nestharus]

Ok, what about my Path resource? That was almost approved until I said not to approve it. The algorithm it used was breadth first search. Moderators didn't recognize the algorithm. I essentially have the power to decide whether my resource gets approved or graveyarded and how long my resource will sit in submissions ; |. Do you think that's right? Shouldn't it be up to the moderator solely?


Also, the weakness in my Scrambler algorithm was not recognized until much later by me. It was approved with its fatal weakness.


Then again, we can also look at examples of Bribe's work. He rewrote the Ascii lib on his own to actually be worse and approved his own update, even after being told that his update was actually worse. He has yet to change it and it appears that he never will. I even submitted an improved version of the original that ofc outperforms the one Bribe wrote. He has yet to put that one up.



There are many problems in the current system. It is no wonder that people on other sites think that the JASS portion of the site is now run by me and that Bribe is my puppet, lol (a discussion started at thehelper.net by someone)... when azlier was in charge of submissions, I essentially told him what to approve and not approve in the background (azlier was too lazy to do the reviews back then, so everything sat there unless I took the initiative). Me and Bribe argue all the time about resources, and the most apparent proofs of these arguments lie in the AddComma resource on the snippets thread and in the Ascii resource.



We must look at the facts... I know more about coding than any of the current moderators, which ends up screwing the current system over. The only way to fix that issue is to get a moderator up that's at least as good a coder as I am : \.


On TH, jesus4lyf was able to understand my algorithm wholly for T32 Safe, which was really awesome. He was like the only guy out of THW and TH that could understand the algorithm ; ). He actually regarded the algorithm as brilliant, but said that there would never be a case when T32 Safe wouldn't crash in a case where T32 would where the game wouldn't start to lag. I agreed with him ; p.

 

[Bugz]

Ok, what about my Path resource? That was almost approved until I said not to approve it. The algorithm it used was breadth first search. Moderators didn't recognize the algorithm. I essentially have the power to decide whether my resource gets approved or graveyarded and how long my resource will sit in submissions ; |. Do you think that's right? Shouldn't it be up to the moderator solely?


Also, the weakness in my Scrambler algorithm was not recognized until much later by me. It was approved with its fatal weakness.


Then again, we can also look at examples of Bribe's work. He rewrote the Ascii lib on his own to actually be worse and approved his own update, even after being told that his update was actually worse. He has yet to change it and it appears that he never will. I even submitted an improved version of the original that ofc outperforms the one Bribe wrote. He has yet to put that one up.



There are many problems in the current system. It is no wonder that people on other sites think that the site is now run by me and that Bribe is my puppet, lol (a discussion started at thehelper.net by someone)... when azlier was in charge of submissions, I essentially told him what to approve and not approve in the background (azlier was too lazy to do the reviews back then, so everything sat there unless I took the initiative). Me and Bribe argue all the time about resources, and the most apparent proofs of these arguments lie in the AddComma resource on the snippets thread and in the Ascii resource.

you know.. its much easier if you just say " Why dont you make me mod !! "

 

[baassee]

Nest doesn't want to be a mod from what I know. Either way Nest you're talking a bit much about the jass section now

 

[Bugz]

Of course he can say that.. But if he is complaining that much; then he either want's to be a moderator and help out ( even he's denying, because who would jump up and say Hire me!!!! ). Or he's right now telling everyone else that they suck, i think it's the first one

 

[Nestharus]

JASS and Spells section alike : \, JASS section just has more examples.


Also, I don't want to be a moderator. I hate being a moderator; too much work.


It's really the second one I am saying for current moderators of the spells/JASS section >.>.

 

[Bugz]

Then do something about it, you're most likely the one most fitted for it.

 

[Nestharus]

I know that Dr Super Good is good enough for it, but he's busy moderating SC2.


Plenty of people at TH and wc3c are also good enough =).


I don't think THW's strong point is coding ;p

edit
Also, there are plenty of algorithms and designs I still don't know. For example, searching through text using computational geometry. I sort of skipped that chapter ;\. I also don't know the treap algorithm, although I know what a treap is (I'd have to research it to learn the algorithm). Plenty of things I don't know, lots >.<.

 

[Bugz]

I know that Dr Super Good is good enough for it, but he's busy moderating SC2.


Plenty of people at TH and wc3c are also good enough =).


I don't think THW's strong point is coding ;p

edit
Also, there are plenty of algorithms and designs I still don't know. For example, searching through text using computational geometry. I sort of skipped that chapter ;\. I also don't know the treap algorithm, although I know what a treap is (I'd have to research it to learn the algorithm). Plenty of things I don't know, lots >.<.

Please, for god sake. Stop coming with these excuses... You got lot to learn? yes, so does we all. But you dont need to learn everything before you can teach others, you are already teaching us noobs, and that's the most impotent thing about being a mod. So please.. reconsider it

edit: sorry if it sounded evil... not the point

 

[baassee]

DSG is always busy

 

[Nestharus]

Please, for god sake. Stop coming with these excuses... You got lot to learn? yes, so does we all. But you dont need to learn everything before you can teach others, you are already teaching us noobs, and that's the most impotent thing about being a mod. So please.. reconsider it

THW follows a philosophy of minimal mods, which sets it up so that mods have to put in like 4-5 hours a day. That's not my cup of tea. I might be willing to put in 30 mins a week, but no way will I ever be taking this on like a part time job.


When I review resources, I review every single line and look at algorithms, conventions, commenting, etc... I review everything, so it takes me like 30 mins to 3 hours depending on the complexity of the resource. If I find nothing wrong with algorithms and so on, I then go to the testing phase of it and will test it in every conceivable situation.


I'd only volunteer for it if the work was very light and I could review whatever I felt like reviewing (whatever peaked my interest) =\. You can't ask someone to volunteer for 4+ hours a day, that's asking too much. I've moderated resources on another site before, so I know how much time is required of the typical moderator. I got fed up with modding after 3 days and quit on that other site ;p.

 

[baassee]

Not even I have that much time and I got a lot of time!

 

[Bugz]

THW follows a philosophy of minimal mods, which sets it up so that mods have to put in like 4-5 hours a day. That's not my cup of tea. I might be willing to put in 30 mins a week, but no way will I ever be taking this on like a part time job.


When I review resources, I review every single line and look at algorithms, conventions, commenting, etc... I review everything, so it takes me like 30 mins to 3 hours depending on the complexity of the resource. If I find nothing wrong with algorithms and so on, I then go to the testing phase of it and will test it in every conceivable situation.


I'd only volunteer for it if the work was very light and I could review whatever I felt like reviewing (whatever peaked my interest) =\. You can't ask someone to volunteer for 4+ hours a day, that's asking too much. I've moderated resources on another site before, so I know how much time is required of the typical moderator. I got fed up with modding after 3 days and quit on that other site ;p.

Tell me that you see -Kobas- on four hours a day?.. or ralle? i barely see him..
;o

 

[baassee]

Ralle isn't a mod

 

[Nestharus]

They don't moderate ;p.


Do you know how long Bribe and Maker spend moderating resources? I've seen Bribe on THW for 12 hours at a time.


That is why I'm calling for an army of moderators, because I don't think that that is reasonable to ask of a moderator.

 

[Garfield1337]

Imo, everyone capable and willing should be a moderator. No matter how active he is, as long as he does atleast a bit, he'd be useful.

 

[Bugz]

-Kobas- does ;o, actually he is the only active moderator for maps.. , and ralle is the owner :v

 

[Nestharus]

That's kinda dumb. Imo, everyone capable and willing should be a moderator. No matter how active he is, as long as he does atleast a bit, he'd be useful.

I 100% agree. If we got an army of moderators, we could get the job done and nobody would have to be on for 4+ hours a day, or for like 12 hours at a time like Bribe.

edit
Maps section is extremely slow ;p.

 

[baassee]

Imo, everyone capable and willing should be a moderator. No matter how active he is, as long as he does atleast a bit, he'd be useful.

I think there's more behind it than just that. More complex stuff like politics (in THW? I KNOW)

 

[Nestharus]

I think there's more behind it than just that. More complex stuff like politics (in THW? I KNOW)

Well, to be a moderator, it should be required that you have been an active part of the community for a couple of years to build up trust and that you should have a good reputation as being fair or w/e.


Obviously, someone who is not known at all shouldn't be a mod, even if they display a great capacity for coding.


I think another important factor is age. Older moderators ensure more fairness. If you upset a 9 year old, chances are that they'd want to get back at you (no distinction between business and personal affairs). If you upset a 30 year old, they'd treat business as business and personal affairs as personal affairs.

 

[Bugz]

Politics?... no)))) anyways Nestharus if we make a army of mods you are to be included.. :s

edit: look are your join date and rep, and tell me you arent able to mod.. :s i kill yah if you say it :v

 

[Garfield1337]

By capability, i didn't just refer to the section one moderates, but capability of being a moderator in general.

 

[Bugz]

I think another important factor is age. Older moderators ensure more fairness. If you upset a 9 year old, chances are that they'd want to get back at you (no distinction between business and personal affairs). If you upset a 30 year old, they'd treat business as business and personal affairs as personal affairs.

That is not a fair way to threat people, i am thirteen and i am working already, i got three years of experience with forum creating and html/css. Should i then be declined if i wanted to do something with websites because of my age?

 

[Nestharus]

look are your join date and rep, and tell me you arent able to mod.. :s i kill yah if you say it :v

I mean the wc3 community in general. You might have been active on thehelper.net for 3 years but just joined THW. And by reputation, I mean your actual reputation, not the thing on your nick. For example, azlier is very well known across the entire wc3 community but he has very little reputation on his nick.

edit
I guess I should have said proof of maturity ;p. Distinction between personal affairs and business affairs. Age is an easy proof of maturity =), so that's why I said age ;p.

 

[Garfield1337]

That is not a fair way to threat people, i am thirteen and i am working already, i got three years of experience with forum creating and html/css. Should i then be declined if i wanted to do something with websites because of my age?

That's discussable, depending on your behaviour.

 

[Bugz]

That's discussable, depending on your behaviour.

I mean the wc3 community in general. You might have been active on thehelper.net for 3 years but just joined THW. And by reputation, I mean your actual reputation, not the thing on your nick. For example, azlier is very well known across the entire wc3 community but he has very little reputation on his nick.

edit
I guess I should have said proof of maturity ;p. Distinction between personal affairs and business affairs. Age is an easy proof of maturity =), so that's why I said age ;p.

Age doesnt matter, in my kind of world, its the experience that matters. And did you think i talking about the rep on your nick... dude i am sure that everyone will find you related to jass.. Your rep is big enough

 

[Garfield1337]

Bugz, age isn't a problem when it comes to skill in a section (if someone is skilled, he's skilled; although the younger someone is, the more doubtful his skill is), but when it comes to power he possess as a moderator.
Younger users tend to be often subjective.

 

[Nestharus]

Younger users tend to be often subjective.

Precisely. As I put it, unable to distinguish between business affairs and personal affairs ;p. A younger user might undermine someone that they don't like by rejecting their resource even if their resource should be approved.

 

[Bugz]

Sorry to tell you, but that is not correct for everyone, so using the word age would be a huge mistake;
I am thirteen, and my future is pretty much decided:

• I finish my school
• I go gymnasium
• I go university
• i take the boss position in a relocation company like my dad.

So i have been raised to moderate a big company, that's the way i am and the way i will be, So you are telling me because of my age i would not be able to moderate? even that i am a person with experience in my age?, shouldn't it be the other way around?, if the person is young and got a good experience. Use it!. Younger persons is faster at growing and they're skills will rapidly increase automatically if you force them to.

edit: I am a person that took feelings away from what i did long time ago, and that way i already locked myself to what i want, so what you say is younger kids can't control they're feelings?

 

[Garfield1337]

Sorry to tell you, but that is not correct for everyone, so using the word age would be a huge mistake;
I am thirteen, and my future is pretty much decided:

• I finish my school
• I go gymnasium
• I go university
• i take the boss position in a relocation company like my dad.

So i have been raised to moderate a big company, that's the way i am and the way i will be, So you are telling me because of my age i would not be able to moderate? even that i am a person with experience in my age?, shouldn't it be the other way around?, if the person is young and got a good experience. Use it!. Younger persons is faster at growing and they're skills will rapidly increase automatically if you force them to

I'm not sure how's that related to your subjectivity.

edit: I am a person that took feelings away from what i did long time ago, and that way i already locked myself to what i want, so what you say is younger kids can't control they're feelings?

Kinda, though sometimes you don't do it intentionally.

I'm slightly subjective too, although i'm trying not to be.

 

[Nestharus]

So i have been raised to moderate a big company, that's the way i am and the way i will be, So you are telling me because of my age i would not be able to moderate? even that i am a person with experience in my age?, shouldn't it be the other way around?, if the person is young and got a good experience. Use it!. Younger persons is faster at growing and they're skills will rapidly increase automatically if you force them to

We already stated that age was just an easy way to prove maturity =/=.

That's discussable, depending on your behaviour.

As stated by Garfield.

I guess I should have said proof of maturity ;p. Distinction between personal affairs and business affairs. Age is an easy proof of maturity =), so that's why I said age ;p.

As stated by me.


What you are arguing is a mute point since we already agreed with you that age isn't a set in stone factor.

edit

Kinda, you don't even have to do it intentionally, but younglings are surely subjective.

I disagree with that. Back when I was 13, I was running MMORPG servers and leading major teams. I also ran many successful major wc3 elitist clans that dealt with competitions. I was much more business like as a 13 year old than I am now ;p. My ambition kind of died out by 17 ^)^. And believe me, leading those teams, I had to make difficult decisions ; P.

 

[Bugz]

I'm not sure how's that related to your subjectivity.
The more you post, the more i think you're incapable of moderating.

Kinda, you don't even have to do it intentionally.

I'm slightly subjective too, although i'm trying not to be.

I dont got time to moderate anyways, i am just kind of sad the way you think of youngers

 

[Garfield1337]

I dont got time to moderate anyways, i am just kind of sad the way you think of youngers

It's a fact, for most of youngers. Not everyone is, it's just many are (subjective).
I didn't directly say you're subjective though.

 

[Nestharus]

I didn't directly say you're subjective though.

Oh, but you implied it =)

I'm not sure how's that related to your subjectivity.
The more you post, the more i think you're incapable of moderating.

Kinda, you don't even have to do it intentionally.

 

[Garfield1337]

Edited it, didn't really think it D:

 

[Bugz]

It's a fact, for most of youngers. Not everyone is, it's just many are (subjective).
I didn't directly say you're subjective though.

Might be.

Back to topic:
Nestharus you're a person that got what it takes to be moderator..

 

[baassee]

But Nest won't do it, leave him alone as long as there are too few of the mods, he won't

 

[Nestharus]

Nestharus you're a person that got what it takes to be moderator..

We already discussed that

You can't ask someone to volunteer for 4+ hours a day, that's asking too much.

There is no need to go in circles.

edit

But Nest won't do it, leave him alone as long as there are too few of the mods, he won't

Precisely

edit
The current administration is unwilling to adopt the philosophy of many moderators, so this debate is rather pointless. They prefer as few moderators as possible, and that is unlikely to change.

 

[busterkomo]

blablabla algorithms..

Yeah but algorithms such as those rarely (never?) occur in spells, and if they did, they'd only be part of a library that is required by the spell. They're bound to appear in JASS resources, though.

 

[Nestharus]

systems are submitted to the spells section as well.


Also, if those algorithms do occur, the moderator should be able to recognize it and possibly suggest a better one.


Furthermore, the rarity of such algorithms proves that there should be tiered moderators. THW doesn't need an army of highly advanced moderators or lots of moderators at the same level. It needs lot of basic moderators and decreasing numbers of moderators as the skill level goes up (think of it as logarithmic).

 

[baassee]

It needs lot of basic moderators and decreasing numbers of moderators as the skill level goes up (think of it as logarithmic).

Second that.

 

[Bugz]

Furthermore, the rarity of such algorithms proves that there should be tiered moderators. THW doesn't need an army of highly advanced moderators or lots of moderators at the same level. It needs lot of basic moderators and decreasing numbers of moderators as the skill level goes up (think logarithmic).

Sadly i couldn't make my self shutup.. but that is completely correct. -.-'
Instead of having a few moderators a bunch would be good, since right now no one is active to control the map section ( -Kobas- went holyday ) and i have not heard about the current map mod's being active. So i recommend some map mods, and i think ralle is thinking about it

 

[HINDYhat]

Sadly, I feel like even if the site would attempt to follow Nestharus' "shitload of semi-competent and literate moderators" idea, I don't think there would be enough to moderate the spell section. The Jass section is a totally different matter. It seems to just be a couple of people chatting, and its moderation is fairly unimportant since no one uses it anyway, other than said couple of people. This section should definitely be reserved for users competent in computer science, not just people who know how to clean memory leaks, but otherwise yeah moderation of the spell section absolutely doesn't require that kind of knowledge.

The more competent you get, the less you care about sifting through heaps of trivial shit in the spell section.

Also, Nestharus, I blame the fact that no one understands your scripts on your naming convention. :<

 

[Nestharus]

Also, Nestharus, I blame the fact that no one understands your scripts on your naming convention. :<

I actually coded properly when using cJASS : P. I'd use definitions for readable code.

See here-

	globals
		private timer array st
		private integer ic=0
		private integer array sn
		private integer array sp
		private boolean array sr
		private integer array sf
		private integer array tn
		private integer array tp
		private integer array tf
		private integer array nh
		private real array nt
		private integer array qt
		private integer array an
		private integer array ap
		private integer array as
		private Table array tl
		private hashtable tt=InitHashtable()
		
		#define private segmentTimer = st
		#define private instanceCount = ic
		#define private segmentNext = sn
		#define private segmentPrevious = sp
		#define private segmentRunning = sr
		#define private segmentFirst = sf
		#define private timerNext = tn
		#define private recycler = timerNext
		#define private timerPrevious = tp
		#define private timerFirst = tf
		#define private nodeHead = nh
		#define private nodeTimeout = nt
		#define private queueId = qt
		#define private stackNext = an
		#define private stackPrevious = ap
		#define private stackTarget = as
		#define private structTable = tl
		#define private timerTable = tt

		#define private ln = 230.258509
	endglobals

And I used definitions for operations too for highly readable code-

	#define private isRecyclerEmpty = (0==recycler[0])
	#define private allocateRecycled(nodeRef)
		nodeRef=recycler[0]
		recycler[0]=recycler[nodeRef]
	#enddefine //allocateRecycled
	#define private allocateNew(nodeRef)
		nodeRef=instanceCount+1
		instanceCount=nodeRef
	#enddefine //allocateNew
	#define private timerRecycleCode(nodeRef) = nodeHead[nodeRef]=0
	#define private allocate(nodeRef,recycleCode)
		if (isRecyclerEmpty) then
			allocateNew(nodeRef)
		else
			allocateRecycled(nodeRef)
			recycleCode
		endif
	#enddefine //allocate

And really though, if cJASS were working, I'd go further and change like allocate recycled to popStack

 

[mckill2009]

The only real solution is to have moderators of different tiers that are allowed to moderate resources up to a certain complexity

This...I agree, let us categorize this, GUI is a moderator of GUI, many user
here who is capable of reading complex GUI triggers, I recommend guys like
defskull, Spinnaker, Beefisblack, razor21, -Derp- and many more...
on the otherhand, jazzers for jass codes, baassee,xBlackrose,Garfield is skilled enough to moderate things...

EDIT:
I really adore people like Bribe, Nestharus and Purgeandfire...

 

[Bribe]

I was moderating a decently active community when I was 13 as well, actually was
the administrator, there's no reason I would say no to someone who had the right
stuff even if they are 13 they have the capacity to moderate.

-Bugz- sounds like he's older than 13 it wouldn't surprise me if he was older and
pretending to be young. In fact I would have taken him for a native English speaker
if I wasn't living in Germany and recognize certain punctuation mistakes and well of
course the word Gymnasium instead of High School.

Also, he has a nicely-developed vocabulary for someone of that age.

The two most important things about a moderator is that they are not sick for power
and that they care about the thing they are moderating. If you stop caring or start
abusing the power, that's when it's no longer a good fit.

 

[Bugz]

I am thirteen , so many ways to prove.

 

[Nestharus]

Well, what I hear from Enjoy is that she is planning to hire 1 more person for spells section ;p.

 

[Bugz]

@Nestharus *** ! ***!*!*!**!*!, rather said.. who would you want in that spot?

 

[Nestharus]

Probably HINDYhat or BBQ =)


HINDYhat appears to be active again and seems to know plenty of algorithms ; ). It sounds like Hindy's majoring in computer science.


BBQ also knows lots ^^.

 

[Bugz]

I was moderating a decently active community when I was 13 as well, actually was
the administrator, there's no reason I would say no to someone who had the right
stuff even if they are 13 they have the capacity to moderate.

-Bugz- sounds like he's older than 13 it wouldn't surprise me if he was older and
pretending to be young. In fact I would have taken him for a native English speaker
if I wasn't living in Germany and recognize certain punctuation mistakes and well of
course the word Gymnasium instead of High School.

Also, he has a nicely-developed vocabulary for someone of that age.

are you calling me old? =.=