New Resource Sections

[Archian]

Since the early days of the Hive Workshop, we have made much progress. But that progress came with a cost. Our site has changed. And despite our advances in both arts and scripting.
We can no longer deny what is clear. The time for Reforged is here. So we turn our gaze to new possibilities - to HD.
And embark on a new journey in our site's history. A journey into the unknown. To discover new maps. New assets. New worlds...

A new beginning. For all Warcraft 3 modders.

We needed a home for the assets made for the HD graphics in Reforged. And thusly we have made new resource sections! These new sections include HD Reforged Models, HD Reforged Skins, HD Reforged Icons and a whole new section: Ported Models, Ported Skins and Ported Icons.

You will find these new sections under their respective resource category i.e. Models, Skins and Icons.

HD Reforged Assets: Models, Skins and Icons made for the HD graphics in Reforged. Ported Assets: Models, skins and icons converted to work inside Warcraft 3. Here you may find models ripped from World of Warcraft and other games/sources.

1. Reforged HD Models
2. Reforged HD Skins
3. Reforged HD Icons

We realize that making assets for Reforged can be very time consuming. Thusly we are slacking on the freehand/original requirement for Reforged textures e.g. recolors. In the past we demanded that textures must be atleast 75% freehand work and only allowed 25% recolor/copy-pasted edits. These policies have since been scrapped. Instead Skin recolours may be accepted if a skin's usefulness outweighs the fact that the skin is a recolor/copy-paste work. In this case, moderators will note that the texture doesn't fully adhere to the rules, but is approved due to it's usefulness/demand. Do note that the recolors must still be quite significant and be aesthetically pleasing to look at.

Moderator Review Badge

At the same time, people who take the time to create High Quality assets for our community should be rewarded. For this reason we are introducing new ways to show our appreciation: Director's Cut Badge and a High Quality Badge. Moderators will be able to reward high quality assets (both SD and HD) with these new badges. Addtionally, we will add the option for asset creators to add a Patreon link to their submitted resources. This link will be clearly visible and is entirely optional. More information on these changes will come later.

Badge preview (subject to change):

Restricted Status

Approved Status

High Quality Badge

Director's Cut Badge

Specific details and information on how to achieve this badge will come later.

Note: Ported Assets are ineligible to receive a HQ or DC badge.

1. Ported Models
2. Ported Skins
3. Ported Icons

We have refrained from hosting model rips of World of Warcraft in the past due to the fact that WOW models need to be optimized to work properly inside Warcraft 3. And it's far from all WOW model rips that work well enough to meet the requirements of Hive's standards. However after the release of Reforged, there was suddenly a huge demand for HD assets. But where to find them? Glad you asked.

There exists many sites around the web that host poorly optimized WOW models etc.
So we made a new section where people can upload WOW rips/ported assets. These ported assets are subject to moderation to make sure that they function properly inside Warcraft 3. Thusly there are rules and policies to adhere to when submitting a ported asset. Please review the updated Resource Submission Rules (Models, skins, icons, spells).

Also. Now that Reforged is out, we are slacking on the "must be optimized for WC3" as the number of polies for example can be very large and still fit in with WC3: Reforged.

We are also in a way letting the user be the judge of whether they can use the model rather than ourselves. We have a minimum requirement of course. As always, if the model has broken animations or in other ways does not work correctly, it will need fixing or be marked substandard.

To meet the incoming horde of ported assets head-on, we are looking for new Moderators to help review the ported assets and make sure they work correctly inside Warcraft 3.

Fair Use

As the rules were made compatible with this, we've made a distinction between the use of material from other WC3 authors versus game companies. We don't want to allow taking a model from someone here and sticking a hat on it. But we do want to take a model from a game and convert it. We are making optimistic use of the Fair Use clause of the copyright laws.

 

[loktar]

Curious about the HQ/DC ratings, and how it will be applied to previously posted stuff. The patreon link is also a nice addition. Maybe a paypal.me link would be nice as well for one-time donations.

 

[Chaosy]

No complaints found for me, improvement overall.

One thing I would like to highlight though, the jass/tutorial sections should also receive these badges IMO.
edit: and get displayed on one's profile

edit2: arguably sounds/music too probably

 

[Archian]

One thing I would like to highlight though, the jass/tutorial sections should also receive these badges IMO.

I agree. We are also looking to give this badge to spells etc. in the future

Maybe a paypal.me link would be nice as well for one-time donations.

This can be done as well

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

So the DC rating is not only for models, but for maps too?

Great news overall. I have actually wanted the DC rating back, it makes people go the extra mile.

 

[deepstrasz]

To meet the incoming horde of ported assets head-on, we are looking for new Moderators to help review the ported assets and make sure they work correctly inside Warcraft 3.

Only moderators will be able to give those badges? I am asking because reviewers also set statuses to resources and then moderators are usually less and that would mean fewer opinions on what deserves those badges.

One thing I would like to highlight though, the jass/tutorial sections should also receive these badges IMO.
edit: and get displayed on one's profile

That is limited to contests, otherwise people's profiles would be flooded with badges.

Great news overall. I have actually wanted the DC rating back, it makes people go the extra mile.

It's almost a wonder what an ideal, which is an imaginary goal, or gain in this case, can do to people.

 

[Chaosy]

What's the point of only having it in contests? you already get a icon for that.

 

[deepstrasz]

What's the point of only having it in contests? you already get a icon for that.

It's the point of contests being more meaningful and challenging than creating a resources at your own pace without any restrictions, like that of time.

EDIT: also, @Chaosy your profile already contains the resource badges in your Resources tab:

Spoiler

EDIT2: now, if you want the resources be prioritized or ordered by status quality, that's another thing.

 

[Chaosy]

That's not what I meant.

I mean that jass/tutorials are not included in the resource tab on the profile AND they cannot receive a rating and thus not a badge either.

 

[deepstrasz]

I mean that jass/tutorials are not included in the resource tab on the profile AND they cannot receive a rating and thus not a badge either.

Ah, I thought you went further with it and asked badges be turned into awards for profiles.
Excuse me.

 

[Tamplier]

Will existing reforged models that had been initially put to substandard be reviewed according to new section rules?

 

[Barorque]

Amazing, this is a much better system than I anticipated, great work!

Now I guess the only thing that needs to be done is to find reviewers who have experience with Normal and ORM textures as well as the challenged with Reforged models over all.
Will be quite a lot of work checking through all the Reforged models and textures again with the new rules, seeing that there aren't too many people doing it currently it might take a bit of time to find such reviewers.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Heck yeah.

HECKKKKK YEAHHHHH

I know this isn't the thread for it but PLEASE tell me this is a setup that could be considered for the SD Resource Section. @Archian @Ralle . I know it may seem like a small thing but the unfortunate "Substandard" moniker has grated on more nerves than mine for a long time now.

 

[deepstrasz]

@Archian might I suggest something if you're not going to be bothered too much. It would be nicer if the High Quality Badge wasn't a sign of the horns like the Director's Cut Badge, for more differentiation.
Could be some other sign like a closed fist or OK hand sign

---

PLEASE tell me this is a setup that could be considered for the SD Resource Section.

read please

Moderators will be able to reward high quality assets (both SD and HD) with these new badges.

I know it may seem like a small thing but the unfortunate "Substandard" moniker has grated on more nerves than mine for a long time now.

Enough with the snowflaking, please. Substandard should be there for improperly working resources. Restricted is for "illegal" stuff.

 

[Archian]

So the DC rating is not only for models, but for maps too?

This is definitely an option too. However, we have an advantage that former DC resources like models and skins are still logged in our database. So it's easy for us to give badges to former DC's, but we don't have that for maps as far as I know. So we'd have to start all over with maps - which is a HUGE task. But again, it's definitely on the table.

Only moderators will be able to give those badges? I am asking because reviewers also set statuses to resources and then moderators are usually less and that would mean fewer opinions on what deserves those badges.

As of right now, the plan is grant Admins and Moderators the power to be able to grant HQ or DC badges. But this is likely to change We still havn't fully decided on which criteria assets will be jugded to get a HQ/DC badge, and thusly we are not quite sure yet on who should hold such power. But sure, I see reviewers having some say in the matter.

Will existing reforged models that had been initially put to substandard be reviewed according to new section rules?

Yes, all submissions to the Reforged section are subject to remoderation.

I know this isn't the thread for it but PLEASE tell me this is a setup that could be considered for the SD Resource Section

It already is That is the plan. I thought I made that clear:

Moderators will be able to reward high quality assets (both SD and HD)

It would be nicer if the High Quality Badge wasn't a sign of the horns like the Director's Cut Badge, for more differentiation.
Could be some other sign like a closed fist or OK hand sign

We are definitely open to suggestions. And like I said, those are subject to change I like the idea of the OK gesture. @Mr.Goblin

 

[Kyrbi0]

read please

It already is That is the plan. I thought I made that clear:

(Deepstrasz)Yeah I have read it:
(Archian & Deepstrasz) It says the "Director's Cut" & "High Quality" badges can be applied to SD models, but doesn't say anything about the current relationship between "Approved" & "Substandard". (Archian) Are you indeed saying this is a restructuring of the SD Resource section as well, replacing "Rejected-Substandard-Approved" with "Rejected-Approved-High Quality-Director's Cut"?

~~~

Enough with the snowflaking, please.

There's no need to strawman my argument (i.e. labeling it "snowflaking" in an attempt to mis-characterize & minimize it's importance in the argument).

However, even if this was a simple matter of "hurt fee-fees", even if only the potential for such, then consider that there aren't any such issues when it comes to simply renaming current "Substandard" to "Approved" & the current "Approved" to (e.g.) "High-Quality". All things being equal & either choice being the same amount of 'work', why make a choice that could cause problems/offense/upset?

Substandard should be there for improperly working resources. Restricted is for "illegal" stuff.

Funny you should say that, because that's precisely the problem; that's not what the Substandard section is being used for. Currently, the "Substandard" section (while indeed containing truly shoddy, unfinished, defective & otherwise flawed assets) is being used as a place for plenty of good, working and useful models, which would've certainly had a place in the "Approved" section of years past, but are now almost arbitrarily considered "sub-par" & labelled as such.

I don't have a dog in this fight; my only submitted models are 1) made by someone else & 2) DEFINITELY Substandard by any definition (and rightfully so, as I haven't updated it). xD So this isn't about me & my "feelings".

 

[deepstrasz]

There's no need to strawman my argument (i.e. labeling it "snowflaking" in an attempt to mis-characterize & minimize it's importance in the argument).

There is no argument. There is only a psychological deadlock that substandard gnaws at people's feelings.

All things being equal & either choice being the same amount of 'work', why make a choice that could cause problems/offense/upset?

A choice with no real use is not worth considering.

Funny you should say that, because that's precisely the problem; that's not what the Substandard section is being used for.

Map Submission Rules

Spoiler

3. Uniqueness
The map must bring something new to the table. It can't just be another clone of X popular map. It must be significantly different from existing maps.
You can't just take DotA, add a few heroes and call it a new map.

4. Quality Standard
- Fully functioning gameplay
- Acceptable terrain or visuals, must not be totally empty or monotonous. See: A Guideline to Terraining
- No game breaking bugs / mostly leakless triggers. See: Memory Leaks
- Tool-tips should have descriptions and broken icons (DISBTNs) should be kept to a minimum.
5. Complete Release
When uploaded, the map must be out of the developmental or alpha stage. You may still add onto a map after updates, but the upload should be a full release. ALPHA and early-BETA versions, "teasers/trailers", etc. can be posted in Map Development. Furthermore, do not upload maps and use it as a request thread. If you want a user to add something to your map for you (system, etc.), then please make a thread in WEHZ.

Those are few of the points that tilt the status of a resource in one way or another. I think it is fairly evident. However, if you desire a specific meaning for each resource status, I guess the staff would eventually write it in digital stone.
Yes, I missed mentioning the quality/uniqueness criteria. Now, these might not quite be needed anymore for Substandard but that is not to say that Substandard should disappear or be renamed. What ever name you would give it, it will obviously not be encouraging. You don't call a prison, university, unless you are expressing dark humour.

 

[Barorque]

If a model is not working or was made in 10 minutes with a guy who has another weapon or haircut, it's not worthy of main page, obviously.
But if it's deemed useful enough by community it should be visible. As well as considering the fully custom models not even being possible in Reforged to a larger degree, the geomerge (or even retextured geomerge) being automatically substandard is therefore an antiquated policy for HD.

I'm just happy that incompatible assets will no longer bother SD purists or those who switched to HD (with the exception of spell effect probably, since many of them are high level enough to be useful for HD).


Edit to not double post:

Yes, I missed mentioning the quality/uniqueness criteria. Now, these might not quite be needed anymore for Substandard but that is not to say that Substandard should disappear or be renamed. What ever name you would give it, it will obviously not be encouraging. You don't call a prison, university, unless you are expressing dark humour.

Yes a unfinished or under review category is still useful. A model can simply have flaws in animation or outright not work, or be too simply but have a great potential, so not ALL models should be automatically visible yes.

 

[deepstrasz]

As well as considering the fully custom models not even being possible in Reforged to a larger degree, the geomerge (or even retextured geomerge) being automatically substandard is therefore an antiquated policy for HD.

As mentioned above, Substandard should probably remain for bugged stuff.
We now have two more layers on top. I guess less is not more. It's evolution.

 

[Archian]

(Archian) Are you indeed saying this is a restructuring of the SD Resource section as well, replacing "Rejected-Substandard-Approved" with "Rejected-Approved-High Quality-Director's Cut"?

That's a good question. But I guess yes, somewhat. We have plans to restructure the Substandard section. Because, like you said "It's being used as a place for plenty of good, working and useful models, which would've certainly had a place in the "Approved" section of years past". We also plan on changing the name to something less "offensive". Because the name "Substandard" is misleading.

Also, after we updated our rules, many substandard resources can be moved to Approved. This is especially the case with Reforged assets.

Right now, the Substandard section is a mess. This is partially due to wrongful moderation and because for some reason, many perfectly good assets got moved to Substandard long ago. I still find assets in Substandard that doesn't belong there. This was due to a technical error long ago. When we upgraded to Xenforo I believe.

 

[loktar]

I do agree there should be a distinction between buggy/low quality models (or other resources) and simple but useful edits, which there isn't right now.
With these changes, the most logical thing seems to be to move simple but useful edits to Approved and reserve substandard for buggy/low quality stuff.

 

[chopinski]

Finally! I hope the modders from Warcraft Underground Community use this as an opportunity, their work is the best in the HD area.

 

[Shido]

Well I have mixed feeling about changing the rating on resources.

The good: High Quality & DC are amazing because imagine having your works got tons of these rating are worth to be proud of. Like: “ Holy Pasta, this man must be a badass because all of his stuff are true magnum opus. “

The bad: Now, i’m no coward but having a rejected if your stuffs aren’t qualify enough to be at least “something” is way too negative. Especially not having Substandard in the middle of R-A. It’s like you have a coal, a stone and a gold, should you reconsider throw anything else take the gold instead. “One man trash is another man treasure.” But Rejected can be fitting to something example like stolen map, violation or something worse.

The ugly: I’m having some question mark about HQ and DC tho. I understand the “ You rock” sign but i got mislead to horn sign. I dunno, but probably my biggest concern is why HQ purple. Maybe this one I actually need an answer.

 

[deepstrasz]

my biggest concern is why HQ purple.

Purple is the colour of nobility, royalty.
And then, blue and yellow, that of god blood and their golden perfection.

 

[FeelsGoodMan]

The bad: Now, i’m no coward but having a rejected if your stuffs aren’t qualify enough to be at least “something” is way too negative. Especially not having Substandard in the middle of R-A. It’s like you have a coal, a stone and a gold, should you reconsider throw anything else take the gold instead. “One man trash is another man treasure.” But Rejected can be fitting to something example like stolen map, violation or something worse.

I think there aren't that many maps that are blatantly rejected though. I think, if the map maker uploads a map of sub-par quality and then getting instructions by reviewers on what needs to change before it gets approved, and the map maker then chooses to not do any additional changes, it warrants rejection. If a person takes the criticism that is given by the reviewers and actively works towards making his map up to the standards that are set for approval then he or she will manage to reach that goal.

 

[Chaosy]

Funny you should say that, because that's precisely the problem; that's not what the Substandard section is being used for. Currently, the "Substandard" section (while indeed containing truly shoddy, unfinished, defective & otherwise flawed assets) is being used as a place for plenty of good, working and useful models, which would've certainly had a place in the "Approved" section of years past, but are now almost arbitrarily considered "sub-par" & labelled as such.

Quite ironic that the old system would not have this issue.

Back when moderator ratings was used a filter you would give a 4/5 or 5/5 rating to decent stuff, 3/5 for acceptable/okay, 2/5 for quick edits or mildly flawed submissions or 1/5 for unacceptable
Admittedly I had (still have) a problem with mods being able to issue 0/5 ratings, but assuming it's from 1 to 5 I thought it was simple and effective.

edit:

Logically, a rating system with 5 states will be more accurate than a system that has 2.

 

[Footman16]

This definitely seems like a positive move especially with the re-moderation of HD resources.

Also the re-addition of HQ and DC is interesting and I'm quite neutral on it, I see nothing wrong with it and its an added extra though obviously not a necessity. So I'll look forward to seeing some of the awesome resources getting recognition.

As for the question over substandard I know a lot of people feel strongly about it. To me, the name has never seemed particularly offensive and was a good way for useful and simple edits to be made available without being approved but perhaps the issue was it not being clear what it meant for an asset to be substandard compared to say "awaiting fix". At the end of the day a substandard resource should work and shouldnt have any kind of bugs but is merely not unique or original enough to be approved. I believe any resource with bugs should be set to awaiting fix and after being fixed set to substandard/approved.

That said a model of a grunt with an axe for a head should always be rejected even if it is otherwise free of bugs because such a model is just pointless. Things like geomerged footman and knights etc are different because of their sheer utility. Looking at substandard theres some models that maybe should be rejected or approved and the sections ambiguity has been to its detriment.

Either way nice to see the site moving with the times and cant wait to see Heroes of the Storm models with Normals and ORMs made available for Reforged.

 

[loktar]

I believe any resource with bugs should be set to awaiting fix and after being fixed set to substandard/approved

This is a good idea. Substandard could be scrapped and replaced with needs fix (Awaiting Update renamed to Needs Fix) and the bugless substandard resources moved to Approved, and obviously good models that aren't simple edits moved to HQ.
Awaiting Update could be kept as is (and Needs Fix be an entirely new rating) if it automatically changes to Needs Fix after a certain amount of time.

So then the ratings would be: DC > HQ > Approved > (Awaiting Update >) Needs Fix > Restricted

 

[_lycan]

OMG YES, I'd love forever anyone who ports aoe 3 de models <3

 

[Shido]

I think there aren't that many maps that are blatantly rejected though. I think, if the map maker uploads a map of sub-par quality and then getting instructions by reviewers on what needs to change before it gets approved, and the map maker then chooses to not do any additional changes, it warrants rejection. If a person takes the criticism that is given by the reviewers and actively works towards making his map up to the standards that are set for approval then he or she will manage to reach that goal.

I mean you can think of something a map can be redeemable as at least something subpar than ilegal.
Seriously, Substandard has reason to be existed. Giving somebody resources a substandard is telling: " hey, your stuff isn't qualify enough to be approved. Since either you need to pause for break or decide not to update, your stuff can't put on main page but at least you can take your time come back for improvement."

Also if a substandard isn't add to the middle of Rejected-Approved, could they at least put a thumb middle instead of "a scale for fair but not enough".

This is my recommended solution to sunsetting "Substandard". Put a middle thumb with yellow bg and call it a day.

(i'm not good at editing, forgive me.) I'm kinda realized that this isn't how thumb middle meant to be, just thumb up with 90 degree on your right.

 

[Misha]

hm.. all this new stuff and reforged is still at a price i'm not willing to pay for.. ah well

 

[_lycan]

hm.. all this new stuff and reforged is still at a price i'm not willing to pay for.. ah well

did u ask retera to buy you reforged? xD he bought it recently to some guy who asked him on w3u

 

[deepstrasz]

This is a good idea. Substandard could be scrapped and replaced with needs fix (Awaiting Update renamed to Needs Fix) and the bugless substandard resources moved to Approved, and obviously good models that aren't simple edits moved to HQ.

No. Then there would be less resources. Buggy stuff from Substandard could eventually be fixed by others. If they remain in Restricted or Awaiting Update, they get lost to oblivion.
Awaiting Update and Needs Fix are the same thing. Basically, you're renaming Substandard. It's confusing.

This is my recommended solution to sunsetting "Substandard". Put a middle thumb with yellow bg and call it a day.

That would actually be offensive akin to the middle finger.

 

[Misha]

did u ask retera to buy you reforged? xD he bought it recently to some guy who asked him on w3u

considering i poked retera the most in the 'low-poly era' of warcraft, i am not so sure about that xD

 

[Goffterdom]

I'm glad you made these changes

The Reforged Model Section looked like a trial on court.

I'm sure it will bring new horizons to Warcraft Reforged modding and new a breath of motivation to all modders out there!

 

[loktar]

No. Then there would be less resources. Buggy stuff from Substandard could eventually be fixed by others. If they remain in Restricted or Awaiting Update, they get lost to oblivion.
Awaiting Update and Needs Fix are the same thing. Basically, you're renaming Substandard. It's confusing.

Yeah true. Just keep Substandard, don't care if they change the name or not.

 

[Scias]

Does the addition of new badges that reward high quality mean that the quality standard of approvable resources is gonna be lowered?

Since it still doesn't make sense to me that there are resources with thousands of downloads being labelled substandard.

 

[deepstrasz]

Since it still doesn't make sense to me that there are resources with thousands of downloads being labelled substandard.

Well, let's not confuse download numbers with quality and usefulness when those things might be buggy.

 

[Scias]

Well, let's not confuse download numbers with quality and usefulness when those things might be buggy.

What if the resource isn't buggy? And has, say, 6k downloads, yet still remain in substandard? Who's standard does it not meet?

 

[deepstrasz]

What if the resource isn't buggy? And has, say, 6k downloads, yet still remain in substandard? Who's standard does it not meet?

If it's buggy, which is what I warned we should be careful of, then it should be there.
On the other hand, there might be non-buggy and useful things in Substandard that don't have many downloads.

 

[Chaosy]

Yes but WHAT IF.

Let's say there is a slightly edited model that is put into substandard by default.
It has 10000 downloads.

At this point you have to ask, is this section an artistic showcase or a section of stuff people want to download. Whatever standard is not being met is clearly not the user base's

 

[deepstrasz]

At this point you have to ask, is this section an artistic showcase or a section of stuff people want to download. Whatever standard is not being met is clearly not the user base's

There has to be a standard regardless for approved otherwise grunts with swords will be a norm because they're useful.

 

[Scias]

I'd approve of even a simple edit like that, since it could happen that I come on here looking for a grunt with a sword, and get annoyed not being able to find not even such a simple edit on such a great resource website.

 

[Chaosy]

This is why the model should be approved and given a 2/5 rating instead of being put in the same trash can as literal garbage.

 

[deepstrasz]

This is why the model should be approved and given a 2/5 rating instead of being put in the same trash can as literal garbage.

Yeah, but it's people who rate and they are usually not objective.

 

[General Frank]

Also, having custom-made models in the category as cheap edits does not sound good to me.

 

[Chaosy]

Fair, which is why maybe 2 states is not enough. (or 3 if you count complete removal)

 

[Scias]

What I'd do is I'd make a resource Spotlight area above all resources in each section, and have mods pick resources to spotlight, while keeping all the resources in the pages listed below (as they are currently), so the high quality models get their spotlight and get separated from the cheap edits, but the useful cheap edits remain easily accessible.

Like this:

Spoiler

 

[General Frank]

What I'd do is I'd make a resource Spotlight area above all resources in each section, and have mods pick resources to spotlight, while keeping all the resources in the pages listed below (as they are currently), so the high quality models get their spotlight and get separated from the cheap edits, but the useful cheap edits remain easily accessible.

Like this:

Spoiler

Then again, what is the difference from now?
Are people that butthurt if something is named substandard even if it is 100% true?

 

[Shido]

There has to be a standard regardless for approved otherwise grunts with swords will be a norm because they're useful.

[samuro’s happy grunt sound]

I still find the thumb down stuff just of an excuse for sunsetting Restricted. (aka stuff they don’t want to be seen)