1. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still havn't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. The Lich King demands your service! We've reached the 19th edition of the Icon Contest. Come along and make some chilling servants for the one true king.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. The 4th SFX Contest has started. Be sure to participate and have a fun factor in it.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. The poll for the 21st Terraining Contest is LIVE. Be sure to check out the entries and vote for one.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. The results are out! Check them out.
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Don’t forget to sign up for the Hive Cup. There’s a 555 EUR prize pool. Sign up now!
    Dismiss Notice
  8. The Hive Workshop Cup contest results have been announced! See the maps that'll be featured in the Hive Workshop Cup tournament!
    Dismiss Notice
  9. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

New ORPG - Still under construction

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Serbianbeast, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. Nogusta

    Nogusta

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0

    Both have their merits Serbian, but note that the Diablo 3 team also had this dilemma. They changed their system back to putting skill points into the actual skill itself (does not scale with hero level) because people liked and understood the idea of putting points into a skill. They felt that putting more points into a skill gave a solid sense of power gain.

    On the other hand, keep in mind that their situation was a little different, in that their 1 point ability did not scale up with character level, but with a separate upgradeable skill to increase its damage, AOE, etc.

    If you have the skill scale up with level you really free a crapload of skill points to put in other areas. But with 20 skills to spend on, maybe this is preferable. Then again, I don't know what the max number of points you can put in each skill is. To be honest, I'm old school and I prefer the former suggestion (skill does not scale with level).

    Btw, I played your new build. Really fun stuff, the sorc is really as good as you said, however I noticed in the hero summoning tooltip for the stormseeker that it says he can "dual wield". In reality, this is not really true because his dual wield is actually one weapon.

    And about what Palaslayer said above. I think he is saying in part that at the moment your map plays very linearly. Each of your areas connects with only one path to the next. This is contrary to 99% of the rpgs out there that use a town as a quest hub and are non-linear (as in you can go in pretty much any direction). But of course, you're not even done yet, so it doesn't matter.
     
  2. Shaki

    Shaki

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    19
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    searching, for a good rpg. now, god bestowed this PRAISE ABOVE ME!!!.. uh.. lol i mean't to say, this is probably the BEST rpg! i cant wait until the full vers!
     
  3. Serbianbeast

    Serbianbeast

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Resources:
    9
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    9
    Well I planned to put up to 80 skill points at your disposal (which you gain from level 1 to 80) and put them where you want them, thus increasing level of certain abilities, but, since you'll have only 4 abilities bound to QWER hotkeys, you wouldn't really need that many points, so I think I'll go with scales up with level since it's as good as the other one and makes it way faster to swap between, for example, single target and AOE build. However talent system will remain passive, increasing potential of certain skills, hero or a certain hero build.
    And as for the linear playstyle... well I thought that I mentioned it before, but in case I did not... I'll finish the regions, terrain and systems first. Then I'll implement storyline (which I already have in mind) and things such as vendors, towns, profession trainers etc etc. The game will be less predictable and I will give you choice further in to the game.
     
  4. The_wand_mirror

    The_wand_mirror

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,273
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    lol, i just took a look at the map and im so jaleous of your terraning skills! You seriously know how to make playable terrain look great.

    Btw, is your unit spawn system going mad? There's alot of creep spam, i can't imagne it has to be that way.

    Where did you get that system to set damage to the attack of the item o_O? (Or something) Did you make it yourself?
     
  5. Serbianbeast

    Serbianbeast

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Resources:
    9
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    9
    Hehe, I thought u knew me better than that :) I use no systems and everything you see is made completely by myself.
     
  6. Nogusta

    Nogusta

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0


    Looks like I misinterpreted what you said. Yes I totally agree with your choice. 1 lvl is the recommended way to go! Your decisions are sensible enough.

    I wonder, are you going to keep everything as one large landmass? Or are you going to split anything up with oceans and rivers?
     
  7. The_wand_mirror

    The_wand_mirror

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,273
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Btw the filesize is almost 4 mb right now, you sure you won't pass it? =/
     
  8. Anachron

    Anachron

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    6,176
    Resources:
    66
    Icons:
    49
    Packs:
    2
    Tools:
    1
    Maps:
    3
    Spells:
    9
    Tutorials:
    1
    JASS:
    1
    Resources:
    66
    This is AWESOME! :p and reminds me of my Templar Arena =O
     
  9. Serbianbeast

    Serbianbeast

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Resources:
    9
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    9
    I guess that I'll keep it this way... for this chapter at least.

    That's the thing that bothers me the most :S I'm trying to reduce filesize of barbarian's model (it's bloody 700KB+ at the moment while textures are only like 100KB) or to find appropriate substitution for it. I'm really out of solution for this problem but I'll take care of it when I get dangerously near 4MB.

    By the way, could any of the admins change thread's name to The Growling Winds?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  10. The_wand_mirror

    The_wand_mirror

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,273
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    God, i would never import something huge like that o_O

    Couldn't you get an alternative model?
     
  11. Nogusta

    Nogusta

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I played your deathknight to lvl 28 in your new build...and he is bloody unstoppable. 3 DOTs plus even more AOE damage from your passive talents. Once you get mana steal you practically have a constant double DOT going on. And raise dead, dear lord, thats when things get ridiculous. Talk about infinite meat shields plus infinite damage + yourself. The only guy that gave the deathknight any trouble was that rampagor king. The DK has health AND crazy spell power AND infinite summons with that zero cooldown... I have no idea why you would ever want to go pure physical damage build with him, unless you stick a huge number of single lone high hp bosses in the game.

    I like the huge number of guys you stuffed into your new areas, it was hilarious (and extremely fun) mowing them down. There were numbers all over my screen haha. Also, your talent ideas are very cool. I like how you included things like the additional frost damage if you combo moves together, that is totally awesome.
     
  12. Serbianbeast

    Serbianbeast

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Resources:
    9
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    9
    I'm trying to find something that would suit his role and playstyle, or, a way to remove unused animations (since magos model editor only removes their names but they still stay attached to the model)

    At the moment, that build can crit for up to 3k with melee attacks and makes your pets do immense damage. On the other hand, in the next build DK will have variety of physical attacks that will depend of his attack damage so this build will be quite reasonable.
     
  13. Bumkt

    Bumkt

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    134
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    you could allow ability choices for the 5 maybe later down the line.
     
  14. ProfessorZmurge

    ProfessorZmurge

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    332
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    The damage system looks very good.
     
  15. Nogusta

    Nogusta

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I actually played this a third time with a friend and took the elementalist and storm guy all the way to the end. Feels well balanced, but the storm guy doesn't seem to have an obvious niche compared to the others. He doesn't have a lot of damage or AOE, but everytime he throws out those 3 lightning bolts he heals back up to full life. I'm not sure but maybe he needs a cleave type move? As for the sorceress, she's extremely weak but really really reallllly high damaging. The stormseeker loses out by a longshot, which might be too much. When there are many enemies on screen every one of the elementalist's moves is multiplied many times over in terms or damage. This is far far far far more damaging than the stormseeker.

    If there are not as many enemies clumped together in the final game, then I suppose it may be more balanced. The stormseeker is a mix between a mage and a fighter, but doesn't feel as good as either. The combocentricness of his abilities are very cool, but I wonder if he'll lose out ultimately to the other classes that have obvious roles.

    The biggest problem is that while there were obvious incentives in the skill tree to go int or strength exclusively, there was no incentive to do a mix of both. Also, why go int or str exclusively when you could of just been a barbarian or elementalist?

    Yes, the deathknight is another case of identity mix up, but his moves feel very well defined. Everything does damage over time. And the summons do work with the theme.

    However, the stormseeker has single target moves AND an AOE move, and an ultimate move that buffs both. He feels a little all over the place? Even in the stat department the stormseeker seems to be unfocused. His primary move is stormstrike, which is melee, so he needs strength to take some hits. However, at the same time his other moves cost a good amount of mana (especially 3 storms) and require int to damage enemies.

    The good thing is that his ultimate heals him when he throws 3 storms, so in a way it covers the strength area. But at the same time he can't heal continually because 3 storms has a long cooldown.

    There should probably be more incentive for the stormseeker to balance both str and int to some degree. Most of his moves only rely on one or the other. For a hero with all this mixed synergy, maybe there should be synergy incentives for leveling both int and str at the same time to make something more powerful than just leveling one stat.
     
  16. Serbianbeast

    Serbianbeast

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Resources:
    9
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    9
    Well, you've got a point there, but, in current build (under construction) he has 3 new spells: Lightning Shield (+to armor and resistances and deals moderate damage to enemies), Thunder Clap (200% weapon damage as lightning damage to surrounding enemies and it does gain bonuses from int and spell dmg, has 1 sec cooldown) and Static Field (picks all enemies within 800 range of SS and moves them at his position, making it extremely easy for him to group them up and nuke with thunder clap or 3 storms (especially if you have the Thunderstorm talent up since it literally 1 shots pretty much anything if used in combo with static field)), so he's not really loosing much of his potential. I guess he still has mana problem, but nothing that 2-3% mana steal can't fix. As for the builds: int and strength builds are equally good now because new abilities really do mean a lot to him and I'm planning to add a new ability that will slow surrounding enemies and deal damage based on his maximum hit points so that the 3rd build will be very useful aswell (not to mention that he acutally gains a lot damage through that defensive talent that adds weapon damage and spell power based on hit points, which is glitched in the build you currently have).

    On the other hand, here are some new stuff I implemented:
    unlimited number of possible hero abilities per class (currently there are 6 per each and I'm about to make many many more), which include those I already mentioned and Barbarian's abilities:
    Retaliation - for 5 seconds barbarian doesn't lose hit points and reflects 200% damage back to attackers (50% reflection for players)
    Blood Frenzy - now an active ability
    Crushing Blow - a powerful single target attack that deals 25% weapon damage + 60% of Barbarian's maximum hit points as physical damage

    Death Knight:
    Revive - now has a 30 seconds cooldown and rises only 3 monsters.
    Blood for Blood - consumes soul of revived creep, restoring health and mana of the DK by 25% of creep's maximum hit points, thus dealing 25% of it's maximum hit points as fire damage to enemies within 400 AOE.
    Blood Strike - a powerful single target attack that deals shadow damage and applies curse that reduces target's armor (stacks with Death Strike talent which will be able to trigger from this spell aswell)

    That's all for now. I don't have much spare time to spend on map since I have a lot of stuff going on right now so this version will be as late as if it was made by blizz themselfves :) Anyway, thanks for the review and useful advice.
     
  17. Nogusta

    Nogusta

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    57
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    By the way, isn't there a bit of a hero imbalance? You have 1 hero that is str based, 1 hero that is int based, 2 heroes that are int and str and 1 hero that is agil and int. Agil is only the primary focus of one hero here. So every time an agil item drops it has less use than a str or int one.

    If I recall correctly, even night archer's moves use int to power them? So agil appears to have a very reduced role. I remember when leveling the night archer that leveling agility all the way didn't seem to increase my attack speed either but I could be seeing things... Back in the build I played most moves improved the nightarcher's range, however I don't know if range is important compared to attack speed considering the class cannot even see that far into the fog of war. If heroes are teaming up together range is again not that important because you'll have a tank anyways to hold some attention.
     
  18. Serbianbeast

    Serbianbeast

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Resources:
    9
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    9
    You're right on that one, but agility also increases crit and dodge chance, as well as Hero's armor. It's very handy when it comes to defense or capping physical damage (critical chance rating can increase your physical crit chance by up to 50%, while the rest relies on agi and talents) so it will be highly wanted for pvp since every class will want more dodge (+chance to hit reduces it so you can never have too much of it) or crit (because of critical resist).
    As for the night archer... increased range is only for solo game and pvp (you'll see that it'll be quite handy), but the rest of the marksmanship talents (by that I mean disengage/precision build) will mostly focus on increasing physical damage and normal attacks. I admit that currently archer may be weakest class in game, but I have a lot of work in front of me and I will balance it sooner or later
     
  19. bboy-tiger-

    bboy-tiger-

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    899
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Maps looks great, just tying it. Just don't like "Barbarian" class name as Tauren... maybe Warrior. But not important, you could maybe made torso models also visible when equipped ? Shoulders and sashes(if there are any) also.
    I can send you map if i have it still, where i remodeled and made some torso,helms and shoulder items. And maybe you could post request for new models with lower size.
     
  20. Serbianbeast

    Serbianbeast

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,070
    Resources:
    9
    Models:
    1
    Icons:
    2
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    9
    I think I wouldn't be importing armor models since that would consume a lot of memory, and I'm short on it already.
    Oh and I forgot to mention: trying to open talent tree after save/load will not cause wc3 crash anymore