New Content Discussion [SPOILER]

[nchp1903]

I can add it back if anyone feels that the mission is too easy ofc, no problem...

I think this mission has just the right difficulty, as in hard enough to be both challenging and fun, with high replayability. It will still be "doable" if the difficulty goes up, of course, as long as you don't give Divine Shield to Whitefield.

Anyway, I hate the Hydromancer attack waves as much as the next guy, I have a viable way (but with a tedious setup, and is a bit overkill) to deal with them.

Spoiler: Larine mana strat

• The core is to give Larine lots of mana items from previous chapters, but since this is the first chapter she becomes playable, we need to go all the way back.
• In Clash in the Forest, grab the Hood of Cunning from the Bloodhand blademaster, give it to either Blen or Harmos.
• The same with The Bull and The Wolf, with the Pendant of Mana from the Granite Golem, or the Medallion of Courage from the Golden Guard's Keep.
• To Terror of Old, kill the Dreadlord to grab his Sobi Mask, and at the end of the chapter, give all of the items collected earlier to Gardon.
• In The Bootlicker/Dark Blades, Merlon can now let Gardon 'borrow' his Keg of Ale.
• Then in Rebellion, let Gardon give all the needed items to Cora, then in FBIAB, Cora can now trade with Larine.
• You can grab the Sobi Mask from the Berserk Elemental, just right of Woras' base too.
• Enjoy getting through the first half of the mission with Larine's ability spam and zero unit loss

 

[MyPad]

Forged in Iron and Blood:
- The early game will become incredibly difficult if and only if you don't find the nearest mercenary camp to reinforce your units immediately. After that, the attack waves become much more manageable.

- Hydromancer is busted as an enemy caster in this mission. If you don't have enough units, her Tidal Wave based ability will tear through what remains. To counter this, build up more units to force the skill to reach the maximum damage cap, lowering the damage you would've received.

- It is a blessing that the special knight unit that Lord Korbaz commands isn't much more powerful than a regular knight. With careful positioning or save scumming, you won't lose a unit to them.

- While Lady Elrin's and Lord Korbaz' bases are easy to push with a full upkeep army, you'll be hard pressed to do the same to Duke Woras' base, since the sheer number of barracks in the base ensures that you can't destroy many vital structures before the barracks shit out another army of footmen to ruin your day. It's Ironthunder Clan all over again from the Rise of the Clans.

- I don't know why I didn't go for easier choke points when defending against Whitefield's assault from Duke Woras' base. Perhaps the nearby Mercenary Camp made it a bit more appealing to me at the time.

- When defending your position (especially in Duke Woras' base), expect heavy losses, as your healers can't keep up with the sheer number of knights under Whitefield's command. Fall back and recover when possible, allowing the nearby allied structures to soak up the massive enemy waves.

- The army comp I used consisted of 10 Executors, 10 Priests and 12 Ironforged, with 4 food to spare. When the Mercenary Camp is far away from my army, I use Larine's Hawk to hire the units lost in battle.

It's interesting to see that Whitefield betrayed the Empire due to his loyalty to the people of Toran(?). Through his dialogue, we also get some more characterization of the usurper noble, Lord Retka if Whitefield is to be believed; while he may offer rewards to willing allies, he will not hesitate to coerce others through excessive violence.

Cora's choice of sparing Whitefield may come into play soon as her willingness to keep useful people alive may just be enough to counteract her "desire" to terminate traitors. Larine may not be so lucky, however. It is a long shot, but I think Salana's fate has been sealed here judging by how Larine reacted to Cora sparing Whitefield.

 

[LISBOAH]

Act Six, Interlude:
-The text in the loading screen is too long for all of it to appear on screen
-Damn that scepter is OP. Now the demons can't even reach Dead Mountain.
-Wow, so Aridon created the Elves.
-Aridon should now make the Dark Elves drop their scheming and backstabbing. Even if they would never rebel against Aridon, their schemes against each other might undermine the Nexuses' efforts in the war.
-Nice to see that Lord Larantos' legacy lives on. It seems that some of his followers survived and are preparing another attempt

Act Six, Chapter Five
-Larine's invisibility ability was quite useful in defeating the generals wihout destroying the defenses
-Pity that you didn't make Cora say "So you have chosen death" rather than "So you have chosen to die" XD
-Whitefield's army waves, to me, were the most annoying part of this mission. They strike at three locations at the same time, and since the mercenary camps require for at least one of my units to stand there in order to recruit more mercenaries, this made it harder for me to defend all three forts at the same time. I had to rely on Cora's skeletons to make it somewhat easier
-Let's hope Whitefield chooses the right side. Though his point that the Empire is about to abandon the kingdoms still stands, and both Cora and Larine don't even attempt to refute this. Did Gardon tell them or do they refuse to believe that the "Emperor" would abandon the continent?

 

[Daffa]

If I recall correctly, if the short stories as last I recall being canon, Salana's fate is sealed for quite a long time already

 

[DD Mikasa]

@Daffa
Yup even on the main timeline (even though its stated by Shar that its obsolete by now) Its Larine that rules the elfs BUT its weird as to why would Gordon put a freewilled individual in charge of the elves as opposed to his own personal puppet, after all in terms of Marshall prowess both Salana and Larine seem capable enough, on the diplomatic aspect well lets be Honest elves are politically isolated so a ruler with diplomatic skills isnt really required.

Or finally after 5+ years of constant teasing Shar will drop the biggest of plot twists of all and actually put Lera in charge of the elves AFTER ALL he keeps calling her insignificant and important at the same time.

 

[LISBOAH]

@Daffa
Yup even on the main timeline (even though its stated by Shar that its obsolete by now) Its Larine that rules the elfs BUT its weird as to why would Gordon but a freewilled individual in charge of the elves as opposed to his own personal puppet, after all in terms of Marshall prowess both Salana and Larine seem capable enough, on the diplomatic aspect well lets be Honest elves are politically isolated so a ruler with diplomatic skills isnt really required.

Or finally after 5+ of constant teasing Shar will drop the biggest of plot twists of all and actually put Lera in charge of the elves AFTER ALL he keeps calling her insignificant and important at the same time.

Maybe the undead will play a role in this. They might capture or kill Salana, in order to make the elves' submission to Gardon less effective. And Larine will serve as the replacement.

 

[nchp1903]

Maybe if the person already follows Gardon, then they would be a more effective commander if he uses his Enchanted Ring/Amulet thingy as a safety measure instead of a mind-control tool.

By the way, is that the same case with Merlon? I remember reading in Character Knowledge of A Fresh Breeze (or Bootlicker, don't remember) that Gardon 'changed his mind' overnight, but from his dialogue and behaviors, it seems that he has more free will, and even treated like a friend/advisor by Gardon. So, is it possible that Gardon actually convinced Merlon to join him?

 

[DD Mikasa]

Maybe if the person already follows Gardon, then they would be a more effective commander if he uses his Enchanted Ring/Amulet thingy as a safety measure instead of a mind-control tool.

By the way, is that the same case with Merlon? I remember reading in Character Knowledge of A Fresh Breeze (or Bootlicker, don't remember) that Gardon 'changed his mind' overnight, but from his dialogue and behaviors, it seems that he has more free will, and even treated like a friend/advisor by Gardon. So, is it possible that Gardon actually convinced Merlon to join him?

Merlon has an Amulet item on his inventory, which means you guessed it...He is brainwashed, could be Gardon didn't decide to erase his personality totally and merely focused on making him subservient towards his commands.

 

[Navy45]

What I find the most strange with Salana's fate is the fact she was left to die bleeding, not even finished off. I mean, even if Gardon had a reason that forced him to kill her, I don't see why he would torture her (she's not really a traitor or anything) or be sloppy enough to let her live (Thanok would probably do it but giving her to Thannok is even more cruel than just torturing her).

could be Gardon didn't decide to erase his personality totally and merely focused on making him subservient towards his commands.

If I'm not mistaken, the way the amulets work is that the wearer cannot even consider opposing the caster's orders/actions. So I suppose the victims only get very obviously brainwashed if the orders go clearly against their nature, like the dark troll hunter or even Salana who did a 180° about traitors because she was ordered to kill her own people (even the "traitors" that just blocked a road and didn't attack her)

 

[nchp1903]

I have a not-so-good theory, but hear me out.

It could be that Birram's magic is more primitive than Gardon's, so his amulet do a complete mind wipe instead, like in Korjaha's case. Whatever it is, I don't think it is tied to Brian's shadow magic, because Amari, after being trained by him, in The Exiles, don't seem to recognize the cause of Korjaha's insanity at first.

Gardon, I think, emphasize on a person's deep thought, then give them what they want and use his charisma to manipulate them.

Exhibit A: Salana. She has a disdain for traitors, so he exaggerates that hatred, while sending his 3 Elites, to help her deal with Larantos in a quick, extreme, and effective way.

Exhibit B: Merlon. It is plausible that he also wants to help his people at any cost, and Gardon's amulet pushes that to the point where they both begin to see eye-to-eye.

Exhibit C: Claire. In Diary of the Soldier, she suddenly makes a 180 at the end. So I assume this is also a more primitive form of manipulation magic by Birram/Thanok.

I might be high on Black Lotus on said some dumb things that I haven't realized, so feel free to correct me.

 

[Navy45]

Just finished the new Lord of Shadows. Overall very similar to the SHB version but access to banishers definitely make the mission more smooth and the upgraded Dark warrior actually makes using other melee units than the Elite more viable (ant it immunizes Ironfist units to desease cloud so that's definitely a plus)
Some comments about the chapter :

• A bit disapointed we didn't get to "liberate" the city with the undead but maybe 3 levels on the same map would have been a bit much.
• Skeleton lumberjacks seem to be very agressive in the hands of the AI. Every time I attacked an undead base, there was at least one trying to take down an Elite with its pickaxe (not that effective). I even had one pursue my troops all the way to my base when I retreated.
• The Dark warrior tooltip doesn't seem to change to 500% after upgrading it at the town hall.
• Is it normal that the Frost Mistress doesn't say anything ? (awesome item btw)
• Considering the amount of Death Knights named Lord ... seems like the order of Ice was not the only ones trying to resist the undead.
• So, since this city was the last bastion of Zaïnor, does that mean that it is the one where Kazardius was killed and eaten by the townsfolk ? Yeah, I can see why he would have to sit this one out.
• From a timeline perspective, does that mean that the whole fight against the rebellion up until the final showdown happened before Rath even got to Blen's prison ? So much for the swift raiders of the Darkmind clan...

 

[Apprentice Darkmoon]

New chapter finished:
-Lieutenant Claire's new armor is 10/10
-Tremalon's presence in the Zirr Nexus was a surprise. He has a certain charm with all his dialogue about what will happen during the mission and the future.
-When in the second human book we had access to a mixed army, controlling the new Ironfist was a new and satisfying experience. I love banishers and dark steel golems. They were my key to both survival and siege.
-That poor archmage. I was thinking that he would be at the fallen mage's base like in the SHB, but it seems the Rohir grabbed his body first.
-The new frost mistress was the old grandmaster? Was she the first female leader of one of the elemental orders? I was expecting some dialogue between her and Brian about that, it was a shame the walking dead killed her because she might be useful alive or something. Also, the new item is really appreciated.
-It seems Rahandir doesn't like Pentiss and his lectures. Well, I can't blame him since there's an annoying undead ogre with a strange obsession with eyes and tearing flesh. Still, Pentiss's last moments before leaving took me by surprise. Was he really pretending?

Anyway, great work as always, Mr. Dundred. I'll be waiting for the new missions.

 

[DD Mikasa]

Played through the map, over all the map did not change much, some things that crossed my mind though:

1.A missed opportunity to use the demi-heros/ semi unique generic units like the three Iron fist captains we had way way back when we helped salana, we could have gotten access to Clair.
2.Isn't it a bit weird that Mayor Kent has two paladins as part of his entourage (considering that to this point Holy Bastion has taken charge and the paladin order has started to be more fanatical) while he is serving the undead, wouldn't it be more fitting if those two paladins were replaced by Ares Knights?
3.I Love the decision to replace the Crypt Lord of the teal base with a fallen Arch Magi, the crypt lord always felt out of place on the original SHB
4.I dont believe myself right now but The knight unit is actually much more useful than the elite on this map, i went for a 8 Elites 8 knights 6 banishers and 3 necormancers as an army comp and worked wonders, draw the bulk of the enemy outside the base, buff the knights with unholy frenzy snipe production builds, all the while Elites with the help of banishers tank for days.

Oh by any chance Shar i know i am ages late on this question, are the iron fist by any chance based on the Death Korps of Krieg? They are almost identical in demeanour.

 

[jitao]

After playing the new chapter i couldn't help feel disappointed we didn't get to see Thanok and Clair in action, even though they are both in charge of this mission. Clair getting a death threat from her superior if she fails him, you would think she would fight alongside with zed and her army. It also felt awkward that Clair or Thanok didn't say anything when encountering undead heroes.

 

[nchp1903]

I thought the first part was painful, but holy shit, this Revenant deathball that constantly replenishes itself overwhelms my production.

Dank Warrior with Endless War, despite being powerful af, can't survive the burst damage from Death Coil + Frost Nova + Chain Lightning. Gonna take a long rest to figure out how to deal with this nightmare, or I may have to reduce the difficulty.

 

[MyPad]

View attachment 403225
I thought the first part was painful, but holy shit, this Revenant deathball that constantly replenishes itself overwhelms my production.

Dank Warrior with Endless War, despite being powerful af, can't survive the burst damage from Death Coil + Frost Nova + Chain Lightning. Gonna take a long rest to figure out how to deal with this nightmare, or I may have to reduce the difficulty.

Agreed. If I recall, the SHB did not have really durable flesh golems at their disposal (maybe I'm recalling it wrong?) to tank your army. I think it's because we have access to the superior ironfist healer, the Banisher, who can heal your entire army much more reliably than the ordinary Priest. After dealing with the flesh golems, you will have to deal with the Revenants. After that, you only have a few moments to besiege the traitor base before they can replenish their forces.

Keeping your free Elites alive is tantamount to surviving this battle of mana attrition. Your Necromancers can't spawn skeletons, so they're just reserved for buffing and debuffing of enemy revenants. Your Banisher's Healing Wave, while definitely very valuable, will eat up a lot of mana, so it's best to disengage if the situation is unfavorable and your elites can't tank any more hits. Lord Brian Bha'arizel the Shadow Knight can provide some sort of disable through his own custom Cloud ability, which is just the Dragonhawk's Cloud ability with a different model. A group of catapults may provide the necessary AOE you need to overcome their production.

Once you've taken out one of the outlying bases, their troop production easily becomes much more manageable. You won't have to worry as much on the micro aspect at that point, since you've essentially won the game.

Spoiler: Shadow Constructs or something, I forgot the name

Before you break the gates that will lead to your Shadow Constructs being "removed", you can queue up additional constructs in the Arcane Sanctum. This will make it far easier to break through Mayor Kent's defenses.

A possible way to prevent this "useful feature" through triggers is illustrated below (I haven't tested this yet. Still, please don't actually implement this, or at least restrict it to Hard mode):

• Custom Script: set bj_wantDestroyGroup = true
• Unit Group - Pick all (Units owned by Player) and do (Unit Group - Actions)
  • Unit Group - Actions
    • If - If (All Conditions) are true, then do (Then - Actions), else do (Else - Actions)
      • Or - (Any Conditions) are True
        • (Unit type of (Picked unit)) Not Equal to Arcane Sanctum
        • (Picked unit) is dead Equal to True
    • Then - Actions
      • Comment: -------- Filter out all unwanted units --------
      • Skip all remaining actions
    • Else - Actions
    • Comment: -------- Remove all queued units --------
    • Custom Script: call IssueImmediateOrderById(GetEnumUnit(), 851976)
    • Custom Script: call IssueImmediateOrderById(GetEnumUnit(), 851976)
    • Custom Script: call IssueImmediateOrderById(GetEnumUnit(), 851976)
    • Custom Script: call IssueImmediateOrderById(GetEnumUnit(), 851976)
    • Custom Script: call IssueImmediateOrderById(GetEnumUnit(), 851976)
    • Custom Script: call IssueImmediateOrderById(GetEnumUnit(), 851976)
    • Custom Script: call IssueImmediateOrderById(GetEnumUnit(), 851976)

 

[Elempash]

Oh man, havent been on hive since its old version. Turns out my old account is no more but w/e. Registered to post my review on lord of shadows, because its probably the most memorable chapter of all Arkain.
Updated ironfist is way above the army comp we used to have. Banishers proved to be an insane supporting spellcaster. Melt down the armor of key targets, dispel skellies, unholy frenzy or frost armor from foes and chainheal elites so they can tank infinitely. I ended up having a full front row of elites and a secondary squad of banishers and archers to kill some occasional air units. It felt like I zergrushed the first part of the mission.
The second part proved to be unfair. The enemy fields an ENORMOUS revenant deathsquad. Had to resort to suicide attacks with wargolems and elites, while leaving supply-free elites and Brian to defend. Eventually destroyed their production and overwhelmed them.
Overall the mission got better. Didnt feel like a slog, enjoyed the whole thing. Maybe I should've used necromancers but I didnt feel like they were any good. Also the last part of the mission made me miss hydromancers, I really lacked some strong aoe magic damage.
Having said all this, I have to confess. I know i'm gonna eat my words and lord Shar's gonna punish me for saying this... But the mission got easier. Or maybe smoother. The original took me 5 painful hours of peeling off the defenders one by one until I won. Here I made it under 3 hour mark ( plus some saveloading). A big thanks to you Shar, the lord of shadows has got better.

 

[nchp1903]

Now this is some advanced strat. I mean, I already cheesed through the first three bases with Arcane Towers' Reveal for the Shadow Stalkers (or Shadow Slappers, as I like to call because of their attack sound) to get rid of those pesky Shades, so I might as well cheese all the way.

Also, imagine if we have some kind of Ironforged Spell Breakers to counter those filthy Revenants. Would be fun.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Will make a more elaborate post later.

I just want to say that @MyPad's post has given me an idea.
I wanted to give players access to less niche shadows for the second half but decided not to.
Now i had the idea to replace the old shadows for the second part (as in upgrade them) into their new form - from a technical perspective, by using the Chaos ability plus triggers.
It gives you another cool tool rather than just removing one without making Kent laughably easy.

 

[DD Mikasa]

Honestly i think its time for Brian to get a kit rework( i know shar hates this) but to me Brian is a confused hero, he is a melee hero with supporting abilities but has a utterly useless third spell for him, since Brian cant tank for shit. I think his third spell needs to be reworked into an debuff/buff aura.
His other spells are okay but his third spell needs to go.
I think a version of Amari's aura would fit him nicely or maybe an aura that lowers enemy attack, after all his apparence is so unsettling that even Thanok a Black dragon was disgusted by it, it isn't far fetched to think a common foot soldier wouldn't be terrified by his presence in the battlefield.
I wont provide numbers here as thats Kas and Shars job since they take into account balancing issues.

As for the fallen mage guild base that is true it was a hell to break through it, i did it through cheese i pushed through the choke point with mass Enchanter/Elite then send my buffed cavalry units to snipe the production buildings of the traitors base grey base first then did the same with the fallen mage guild. Keep in mind Thanoks boni is a must since Clairs +7 damage boni literally does diddly squat here( that boni needs a rework too cuz its useless)

 

[nchp1903]

Honestly i think its time for Brian to get a kit rework( i know shar hates this) but to me Brian is a confused hero, he is a melee hero with supporting abilities but has a utterly useless third spell for him, since Brian cant tank for shit. I think his third spell needs to be reworked into an debuff/buff aura.

I like to discuss about heroes' ability, so let me come up with a few ideas.
Let's say we fully commit to the AoE support path, so I'll need to go through each ability.

Spoiler: Q

Mind Blast (forgot the name): Storm Bolt on crack, so basically good but boring. If Brian/Bhaarizel is truly as creepy-looking as Thanok claims, then how about change it to something based on Drunken Haze to apply single target silence and reduced attack damage, which gives the "stares so hard that they lose the will to fight" vibe. And having a source of Silence will make his other abilities harder to be debuffed.

Spoiler: W

Shadow Corruption counters auto-attackers quite hard, assuming you're not scuffed by RNGesus. I personally like having a bit of gambling, so it's fine for the time being.

Spoiler: E

Dank Secrets is out of place for someone who doesn't really attack much, and in later levels, will overlap with Gardon's Dark Secrets, meaning less variety in gameplay. Since he has a lot of active abilities, he can use some mana regen by either giving him Attribute Bonus like Tremalon, or something based on Roar that gives him bonus mana regen, in exchange for reduced damage or reduced health regen, etc and call it Dark Knowledge, perhaps.

Spoiler: R

Shadow Creatures are solid units, but also, too solid to be called 'Shadows'. I'm thinking of something along the line of: removed Bash and Resistant Skin, removed cooldown, reduced durability, greatly reduced summon mana cost, added Ghost (Visible) and Phase Shift.
Sure, it may be less useful in a few situations, but rules of cool demands it.

I personally love playable characters that incite fear, so I hope some of these ideas can be fine-tuned and made into reality.

 

[DD Mikasa]

@nchp1903 Well i wasn't talking for a full rework (Shar hates them so chances of that happening are slim)
But his third ability has got to go Brian possess neither the stats or the unique items to make him a drain tank, like Gardon is.

But if hypothetically Shar decided to rework Brian I think there are two overarching themes he fits in

Either a Crowd control tank (i mean after all what Aridon did to him he still managed to find a way to come back)
Or and i know this might ruffle some feathers
Ranged support keep his other spells the same but just rework that god dam useless Dark secrets ability, after all Brian unlike Largoth and Aridon is far more benevolent and he likes to help other races, to what end we still dont know but at first glance he seems far more supportive of the mortals be them Orcs, Gardon's Humans or Elves so a support type hero wouldn't hurt.

 

[HappyMan]

Hah, the new chapter was another excellent work, it took me a whole day to complete, this will be a long post because I have so much thing to say so grab a drink and enjoy:

- Gardon is a bit careless there. Going straight into a place full of suspicious guards, should have take a Scroll of Teleportation with him in such situation, I don't know if that thing work

- Great! We get access to Ironfist units now, one of my best human faction. Their "Dark Warrior" ability is truly the nightmare to their enemy in long-term battle, they will quickly recover and continue to fight day by day, month by month without rest. The Banishers are helpful too, both buff allies and debuff enemies.

- No Captain Herdon, Lieutenant Tormin and Sir Ferdal, the legendary trio of Ironfist demi-heroes? Guess they are still with Salana since they are told to be, what a shame for their shining opportunity.

- Claire sharing thoughts about Thanok and Gardon are quite intriguing in Arkain lore. According to her letter in "Tales of Arkain", her thoughts are contrary to those lines, hope she doesn't have an amulet, a ring or something similar but wih her sudden change, I guess she does.

- Is it just me or I feel that Thanok's assistance is extremely useless here? We have to deal with horde of traitor, a whole capital with large forces of Undead and he just send some units to attack. Maybe he want Claire (the players) to take the lead and have all achievements, the cruel dragon isn't that cruel, right?

- I don't know if I have found a bug or not but after I defeat Kent, it didn't confirm that I completed the mission but a few minutes later it did.

- So Pentiss can access to somebody mind, huh? I dare she get to Papa Redfist's mind, wonder what will she see?

- I have a few question: When did Brian meet and teach Gardon dark magic? Before that what was Gardon like? His personality and goal?

- The conversation between Gardon and Rahandir is removed, I guess that does make sense since it is not necessary.

- That would be all and may I suggest some of my idea to make the chapter more fun?

• Adding Thanok and Claire's dialouge would be interesting which make them to be known better since we almost have no hero in this chapter.
• Make Thanok send more units to attack in waves after the destruction of the sieged weapon.

That's the end of the post, thank you for reading and feel free to let me know your thoughts. As usual, good work to Mr.Shar and anyone give their hand in the project. Have a good day.

 

[Navy45]

Honestly, I quite like Brian as he is now.

• His W is very strong and is quite in tune with the character's aesthetic.
• The Q is not all that interesting but having some sort of interupt is crucial against certain enemy heroes.
• The Dark secret is not incredible but, since Brian is not that durable, it can be a contingency to make sure he stays alive. Also, it is a cool reference to the fact that he has trained Gardon, who likely learned the spell from him.
• Finally, Brian's ultimate is very unique, having a permanent shadow guard is very in tune with the fact he is the Shadow Master. Additionnaly, it also provides the ironfist with a much-needed damage sponge (cavalry and Darksteel golems are cool but in the final levels, they are outclassed by everything they fight)

 

[DD Mikasa]

The Dark secret is not incredible but, since Brian is not that durable, it can be a contingency to make sure he stays alive. Also, it is a cool reference to the fact that he has trained Gardon, who likely learned the spell from him.

Thing is even with that ON Brian is still paper, why give a drain tank spell to a hero who does not possess the necessary stats to drain tank, we all know that by the time Brian joins the roster we are fighting 3+ armies in every chapter and their units are just as strong. The ability does not blend in with his kit AT all. Unlike the other four.

 

[Elempash]

I'd rather have immolation removed on Gardon, easily the dullest and least useful spell out there. But I recall Shar told me personally a long time ago in another thread that's not happening
Dunno why you guys are hating on dark secrets for Brian, his rightclick is okay. Not super, but okay. Plus his stats can be inflated the items you may find along the way, so I dont see how its bad.

 

[DD Mikasa]

I'd rather have immolation removed on Gardon, easily the dullest and least useful spell out there. But I recall Shar told me personally a long time ago in another thread that's not happening
Dunno why you guys are hating on dark secrets for Brian, his rightclick is okay. Not super, but okay. Plus his stats can be inflated the items you may find along the way, so I dont see how its bad.

But why give stat items to arguably the weakest fighting hero on the human roster when you can amp up the other ones? Id rather have a amped up Vail than a amped up Brian, that seems rather counter-intuitive, you focus on making fighters stronger after all Brian is just a AoE blind bot for most of the chapters he is playable.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Skeleton lumberjacks seem to be very agressive in the hands of the AI. Every time I attacked an undead base, there was at least one trying to take down an Elite with its pickaxe (not that effective). I even had one pursue my troops all the way to my base when I retreated.

The Undead defend their bases tooth and nail. And bone.

-Lieutenant Claire's new armor is 10/10

100% agreed - all thanks to @johnwar

1.A missed opportunity to use the demi-heros/ semi unique generic units like the three Iron fist captains we had way way back when we helped salana, we could have gotten access to Clair.

After playing the new chapter i couldn't help feel disappointed we didn't get to see Thanok and Clair in action, even though they are both in charge of this mission. Clair getting a death threat from her superior if she fails him, you would think she would fight alongside with zed and her army. It also felt awkward that Clair or Thanok didn't say anything when encountering undead heroes.

Next you'll ask me to make Thanok playable...

Oh by any chance Shar i know i am ages late on this question, are the iron fist by any chance based on the Death Korps of Krieg? They are almost identical in demeanour.

Nope, didn't even know that 40k faction when the Ironfist was invented, and I strongly disagree about the similarities in demeanour now that I know a few things about them.

If I recall, the SHB did not have really durable flesh golems at their disposal (maybe I'm recalling it wrong?) to tank your army

In fact there were MORE Flesh Golems than there are now.

Oh man, havent been on hive since its old version. Turns out my old account is no more but w/e.

Really? What is your old account?

Having said all this, I have to confess. I know i'm gonna eat my words and lord Shar's gonna punish me for saying this... But the mission got easier. Or maybe smoother. The original took me 5 painful hours of peeling off the defenders one by one until I won. Here I made it under 3 hour mark ( plus some saveloading). A big thanks to you Shar, the lord of shadows has got better.

My pleasure.

- No Captain Herdon, Lieutenant Tormin and Sir Ferdal, the legendary trio of Ironfist demi-heroes? Guess they are still with Salana since they are told to be, what a shame for their shining opportunity.

They are in the Elven Kingdom, correct - consider this a spoiler if you will.

- So Pentiss can access to somebody mind, huh? I dare she get to Papa Redfist's mind, wonder what will she see?

Fire.

- I have a few question: When did Brian meet and teach Gardon dark magic? Before that what was Gardon like? His personality and goal?

That... is a story for another day!

Also what is this sudden trash talk about Brian's kit now?
Alright, I'll bite.
Q: Brian can stun enemy heroes and channeling units while also dealing some damage by getting inside your head. Never underestimate the usefulness of a stun.
W: Probably his most useful ability. An up to 75% chance to miss - for a GROUP of enemy units within an increasing radius. If you can't make use of it, I can't help you.
E: Combine it with W. Get hit as little as possible and regenerate health.
R: I like his new ult, even if not compared to his old one.

Both Gardon and Amari each "leeched" one of his hero abilities because they were/are his apprentices. The rest of their kit is of their own making.
Gardon makes himself more different from Brian by shooting cursed crossbow bolts, summoning flames to devour his enemies and inspires his allies and followers with an aura of war itself. Gardon considers Brian many things, a mentor, an old friend, what have you, but certainly not his master.
Amari on the other hand makes herself more similar by summoning waves of shadow magic to destroy those who stand against her, by summoning an aura that is corrupting the very armor her enemies wear and ultimately by summoning a frigging swarm of shadows to devour others and give her health back. Her relationship with Brian is (going to be) elaborated more than enough, I don't need to tell you.
Each of them is their own in their own right yet they all have some sort of shadow magic in common - some more than others.

 

[DD Mikasa]

I have a few question: When did Brian meet and teach Gardon dark magic? Before that what was Gardon like? His personality and goal?

Well this info might be obsolete by now, but i remember asking shar ages ago about Gardon (Due to Bastion being able to summon a younger Gardon avatar) and shar said that Gardon used to be less "Darker" back then, i took it as his goals and personality didn't change much from the time he learned shadow magic he simply didn't possess the means to do what he does now back then since he didn't have access to the dark arts Brian taught him.

 

[Apprentice Darkmoon]

I think a version of Amari's aura would fit him nicely or maybe an aura that lowers enemy attack, after all his apparence is so unsettling that even Thanok a Black dragon was disgusted by it, it isn't far fetched to think a common foot soldier wouldn't be terrified by his presence in the battlefield.
I wont provide numbers here as thats Kas and Shars job since they take into account balancing issues.

I like to discuss about heroes' ability, so let me come up with a few ideas.
Let's say we fully commit to the AoE support path, so I'll need to go through each ability.

Spoiler: Q

Mind Blast (forgot the name): Storm Bolt on crack, so basically good but boring. If Brian/Bhaarizel is truly as creepy-looking as Thanok claims, then how about change it to something based on Drunken Haze to apply single target silence and reduced attack damage, which gives the "stares so hard that they lose the will to fight" vibe. And having a source of Silence will make his other abilities harder to be debuffed.

Spoiler: W

Shadow Corruption counters auto-attackers quite hard, assuming you're not scuffed by RNGesus. I personally like having a bit of gambling, so it's fine for the time being.

Spoiler: E

Dank Secrets is out of place for someone who doesn't really attack much, and in later levels, will overlap with Gardon's Dark Secrets, meaning less variety in gameplay. Since he has a lot of active abilities, he can use some mana regen by either giving him Attribute Bonus like Tremalon, or something based on Roar that gives him bonus mana regen, in exchange for reduced damage or reduced health regen, etc and call it Dark Knowledge, perhaps.

Spoiler: R

Shadow Creatures are solid units, but also, too solid to be called 'Shadows'. I'm thinking of something along the line of: removed Bash and Resistant Skin, removed cooldown, reduced durability, greatly reduced summon mana cost, added Ghost (Visible) and Phase Shift.
Sure, it may be less useful in a few situations, but rules of cool demands it.

I personally love playable characters that incite fear, so I hope some of these ideas can be fine-tuned and made into reality.

I like the idea to change Lord Brian's E for a bonus or an aura effect. What about some kind of "fear" aura that reduces damage of nearby enemies? Although now that I thinking, this could be added to certain "father" who loves his daugthers so much.
About the Q ability, I like the stun to cancel channeling spells, but I'm agreed that the master of shadows need something like the Silence to deal with massive spellcasters.
In case of the R, perhaps you can summon the four shadow creatures instead to wait for a corpse. Something like the book item that summon skeletons.

 

[nchp1903]

Spoiler: Screenshot

After throwing a Bhaarizellion of Golems, Catapult, and Brians at my enemies, the dum-dum Revenants and Walmart Vanessa are finally down.
Although, I want to know if my victory is legit or it's just the A.I acting up, because at one point, they stop producing Flesh Golems, and after the Black Citadel is destroyed (then rebuilt quickly afterward), I feel like their production pace is slower.

Anyway, time to drop my thoughts and reviews:

• Played more aggressive than the last time I played this mission in SHB, so the time is shortened by 2 hours.
• The Zirr put up quite a good fight for a bunch of scholars. Hell, they even pull the Lumberjack boys to defend their base. Also, Tremalon is entertaining. (btw what race was he when he was alive?)
• The Fleshtearer put up quite a good fight, even when he can't see my Shadow Slappers. Thanok and Claire should thank Aridon for not giving him control of a base.
• Claire is gorgeous, as many have said, and on top of that, her totally unbiased opinions about the Ironfists are quite fun to read.
• Also, One by One because I think it paired well with Critical Strike.
• Banishers are a nice addition, like Druid of the Talon/Stormbringer but with burst healing. Now with Crown of Not-Vanessa, they should do their job even better in later missions.
• And the most anticipated change (by me at least), is an upgrade to Dank Soldier. Endless War, combined with Overseers/Medicines of the Exile + Gardon's Sword will provide insane natural regen for the Ironfist.
• Darksteel Golems are nice. I don't remember if they have been this way before, or the skin gives me the feeling that it's much stronger.
• Fallen Order of the Frost, more like Order of spell spammers that destroy any non-mechanical troops, before raising them back to wreck the rest of my shit. Basically, Workshops are my best friends in the last push.
• First, Pentiss' deception got on Ornasion's nerves, and now her pretentious courtesy is getting on Rahandir's.
• As for Brian's kit, he's fine per se. I'm just a bit too used to MOBA heroes design, which are more micro-intensive and cater to one certain role. Still want to have something that makes me feel like he fears the enemies he face though. (Also, talking about designs, what if we have Leadership Bonis which, instead of giving average bonus, gives significant bonus but with a debuff to other units/buildings?)
• Quite a fun chapter with wide variety of units to make up for the lack of playable heroes in the first two third of the chapter. Had a blast playing it, mainly because I'm a masochist.

 

[jitao]

Next you'll ask me to make Thanok playable...

Well i was hoping he was a uncontrollable hero who assists in game like SOB flammedus in this mission. i don't see him as playable hero through out the other missions because we already have plenty of heroes to control.

I am curious though why he doesn't have much role in game other than upgrading elite units, even though he is practically Gardon's right hand man and has a similar personality to him.

 

[Elempash]

The Undead defend their bases tooth and nail. And bone.

100% agreed - all thanks to @johnwar


Next you'll ask me to make Thanok playable...

Nope, didn't even know that 40k faction when the Ironfist was invented, and I strongly disagree about the similarities in demeanour now that I know a few things about them.

In fact there were MORE Flesh Golems than there are now.

Really? What is your old account?

My pleasure.

They are in the Elven Kingdom, correct - consider this a spoiler if you will.

Fire.

That... is a story for another day!

Also what is this sudden trash talk about Brian's kit now?
Alright, I'll bite.
Q: Brian can stun enemy heroes and channeling units while also dealing some damage by getting inside your head. Never underestimate the usefulness of a stun.
W: Probably his most useful ability. An up to 75% chance to miss - for a GROUP of enemy units within an increasing radius. If you can't make use of it, I can't help you.
E: Combine it with W. Get hit as little as possible and regenerate health.
R: I like his new ult, even if not compared to his old one.

Both Gardon and Amari each "leeched" one of his hero abilities because they were/are his apprentices. The rest of their kit is of their own making.
Gardon makes himself more different from Brian by shooting cursed crossbow bolts, summoning flames to devour his enemies and inspires his allies and followers with an aura of war itself. Gardon considers Brian many things, a mentor, an old friend, what have you, but certainly not his master.
Amari on the other hand makes herself more similar by summoning waves of shadow magic to destroy those who stand against her, by summoning an aura that is corrupting the very armor her enemies wear and ultimately by summoning a frigging swarm of shadows to devour others and give her health back. Her relationship with Brian is (going to be) elaborated more than enough, I don't need to tell you.
Each of them is their own in their own right yet they all have some sort of shadow magic in common - some more than others.

I used to be "LickMyEyeBall". I believe im actually responsible for the creation of this thread xD
I quit hive( and gaming for that matter) for a few years to settle a few things. And now im here. I have to say the progress on true story is staggering. I get it you're doing a lot of "reusing old content", but you've squeezed some new stuff into them and introduced something brand new which is in my opinion a titanic work.
I've replayed the whole beta in a span of a week and it was a blast. I actually like the fact that some missions became less punishing (looking at you "between a rock and a hard place"), while others became more difficult to manage (pretty much all of first books content). And while we're on the topic of improvments, I'd like to adress one (or rather two) things I've hated.
We know for certain that the next human chapter is Gardon and the boys (and girls) vs Retka. And that chapter employs one of the worst mechanics this game features - multiple factions under your control. I dont mind the additional micro, but the mechanics of 3 different bases under your control feel really clunky. I hope that you will at least consider revamping it and that one orc chapter with the same premise.

 

[Mvicio]

Act Six, Chapter Five.
-This new mission was fun until the last part. Having the control of a mix of units from Royal Guard + Golden guard was good enough,
-The Kajon Marauders are a really big group of mercenaries, maybe they have the same amount of forces like Daric´s. Perhaps killing the bandit lord in mission 1 will change some of this somehow.
-Lord Korbaz special knights are not that special... they are just stronger knights. Not even magic from a Noble
-Duke Woras base was HUGE, i left most of the base alive and that really save me during the final attack.
-I suppose the order of the tides are gone forever, a pity that Cora didn´t took over
-I fought in the order of the tides base, however i think Lord Korbaz was the best if you use the high ground on your marksman. Well, i´ll use it in the future.
-Whitefield is gonna betray Retka and die then, probably halting his attacks a bit after the lord of shadows mission. Either that or he took one of the bases in the inner city and switch sides, he is a really good person after all.

Act Six, Chapter Six.
-Holy shit this one was tough, even having the super powerful banishers and the Ironfist regen trait makes everyfight hard. The ironfist really need their leader war aura.
-Why was Zirr nexus outside? They want to gather knowledge so why they are not inside? Perhaps Ardoz nexus would be better to stay on that position.
-Are the humans really traitors or they are part of the brainwashed rohir nexus? They use Revenants instead of mages anyway. I suppose some are traitors and some are possesed
-The Rohir nexus base was tough, but the final part of the mission is a monster.
-So the order of the frost use his soldiers bodies to field more and more flesh golems? I suppose since every order has an army of non mages.
-No dialogue from the Mistress of Frost (good item btw), you had to use the undead vanessa model somehow
-Neither Ornasion nor Rahandir like Mistress Pentiss, I agree, too zealous despite his usefullnes.
-So 2 of the 7 orders are out so soon in the war, yet the lightning one still alive.

Since this act had 4 human chapters, expect just the Retka battle on the next one and go on with the Orcs story (we wanna see the special bearman hero).

-Let's hope Whitefield chooses the right side. Though his point that the Empire is about to abandon the kingdoms still stands, and both Cora and Larine don't even attempt to refute this. Did Gardon tell them or do they refuse to believe that the "Emperor" would abandon the continent?

Why would they? Both of them hate Van Durce and is obvious that he isn´t helping in the war at all. They have reasons to trust Whitefield´s words, however they´ll try to win the war with Gardon, not with the emperor forces.

It could be that Birram's magic is more primitive than Gardon's, so his amulet do a complete mind wipe instead, like in Korjaha's case. Whatever it is, I don't think it is tied to Brian's shadow magic, because Amari, after being trained by him, in The Exiles, don't seem to recognize the cause of Korjaha's insanity at first.

Birram was the one that found the black dragons lair (near the Derrin outpost) so i suppose he uses both shadow magic and black dragon magic, making the combination something strange.

Both Gardon and Amari each "leeched" one of his hero abilities because they were/are his apprentices.

So the next apprentices will have his Q as stun. Well Bryan "new" set is far more useful, a stun, a debuff (a really strong one) and summoning more creatures to fight for you (like Aridon do with his skeletons). Also if you control both Gardon and Bryan you can activate both Dark secrets and once so that´s a plus. Also the shadows are used later when Zyainor rises as surveillance so his kit makes sense both gameplay and lorewise.

Perhaps the only thing to improve is to change the Stun visual to some shadow proyectile. He is not as useful as Gardon or Cora but he is useful nonetheless.

 

[LISBOAH]

My review of Act Six, Chapter Six:
-Opening cinematic: "... until everything fully repaired." --> "... until everything is fully repaired."
-I like how Gardon criticizes the Toranites for allying with the undead, when they did so out of necessity. If not for the undead, Toran probably would have been razed to the ground by Retka. Gardon was too far away, the Golden Guard are the Golden Guard, the other kingdoms are busy either revolting, being slaughtered by the demons or orcs, or bitching about the imperials (looking at you Dorten)...
-In retrospective, Gardon should have told Thanok about Brian beforehand.
-I honestly kind of feel bad about Mayor Kent and his men. I kind of wish that Aridon, in return for their loyalty, gathered their corpses and will bring them back
-Middle-cinematic, when Pentiss is talking with Gardon: "Conider yourself lucky..." --> "Consider yourself lucky..."

 

[DD Mikasa]

-In retrospective, Gardon should have told Thanok about Brian beforehand.

I mean considering that Gardon himself was surprised to see Brian back, he might have thought Brian was gone for good and there was no need of him being mentioned.
And besides Thanok (from what i have been able to understand) doesn't concern himself much with politics he has one job to be the diplomat of his race and whip mortals into peak fighting shape, i honestly doubt he worries himself much with whom does Gardon know or whom he doesn't.
Thats Birram's job.

 

[Jayred0320]

CHAPTER: 6
It could just be me and gotten a little bit rusty on war3, but I find the second part somewhat difficult, the enemy defenders are too strong even with elites and banishers, If you proceed to attack you'd be able to destroy the Traitor's defending army and the Mage's army easily on the first assault, but just about when you think you're gaining ground, a second counterattack from the Mage's army comes and by then you'd get pushed back, the Flesh golems and the revenants are op. And you can try and hold your ground against them thanks to the elites and banishers but after a few seconds they get reinforcements by the Traitor's replenished army. But I really like the new revamped chapter by itself. The previous version of this chapter was very enjoyable as well though. The enemy attack waves are easy to fend off though, but trying to attack them on their grounds is a nightmare.

 

[Karmondia]

CHAPTER: 6
It could just be me and gotten a little bit rusty on war3, but I find the second part somewhat difficult, the enemy defenders are too strong even with elites and banishers, If you proceed to attack you'd be able to destroy the Traitor's defending army and the Mage's army easily on the first assault, but just about when you think you're gaining ground, a second counterattack from the Mage's army comes and by then you'd get pushed back, the Flesh golems and the revenants are op. And you can try and hold your ground against them thanks to the elites and banishers but after a few seconds they get reinforcements by the Traitor's replenished army. But I really like the new revamped chapter by itself. The previous version of this chapter was very enjoyable as well though. The enemy attack waves are easy to fend off though, but trying to attack them on their grounds is a nightmare.

This. I've been trying to beat this mission (on hard) for hours, but those last bases are impossible to break through. By the time you deal with their defensive force, another come in to replace them. Golems and catapults are not the answer, because (on hard) everyone and their mother has hardened skin. This wouldn't be a problem, if the player still had access to hydromancers (I miss them so much), but now, the only supporting casters you have are the banishers and the necromancers. Banishers are op, but they are not offensive casters, so they don't help much, also the enemy really likes to focus them, so... yeah... the necromancers... well... they are ok. The skeletons are good for nothing fodder, they can't even tickle the enemy on hard, frenzy and cripple are "ok" spells, but honestly, with the supply limit, I can't justify making them. Because, in reality, what makes this mission so hard, is that you are capped at a 100 supply. Yes, you are capped in most of the missions, but there, you usually have 2-5 heroes, and they don't cost supply. Here, you only have Brian. Brian is a decent hero, he is very useful, but when you're fighting 2 flesh golems, and 367642 revenants, and the regular human army (knights, catapults, etc.), and even your OWN ARMY BECAUSE ONE OF THE REVENANTS HAS RAISE DEAD. Yes, you have heard me right, even if you could beat all of these units, what can you do when even your (temporarily) resurrected elites are attacking you... so anyway... where was I? Oh, yes, Brian is a useful hero, but any hero that's not outright broken will not be useful here. This mission might be balanced on normal, but on hard... well I guess that's why it's called "hard" right? I just miss my hydromancers...

 

[nchp1903]

Oh damn. Even the guy who I'd normally 'borrow' strats from is having a mental boom.

Haven't checked the map yet, because don't want to spoil myself, but I think Death Revenants require Black Citadel. It takes them a while to build it back up, so during that time, we can build Cavalries and Elites without being punished by Raise Dead and Animate Dead. Also, for me, they stop training Flesh Golems after I kill probably ~10 of them.

Banishers are not useful here obviously. I feel like their spells are good to fend off early waves with minimal loss, because they provide burst healing, not consistent healing.

A possible, but untested way to break through without Workshop units could be One of Us Elites as main DPS/tank + Banishers to dispel Frost Armor and provide heal + Necro to buff and to contest Corpses. Requires lots of micro though.

Anyway, the difficulty is up there with Between a Rock and a Hard Place imo.

Also, OOT but I remember seeing custom loading screens in SHB. Any chance that we can get them back?

 

[DD Mikasa]

capped at a 100 supply

A dam shame this one, maybe just maybe Shar in his good graces would make a special Clair boni just for this mission since we lack heros that instead of offering a 7 bonus attack damage to elites ( which does diddley squat) would lower Elite production points to maybe 5 ??? How useful would that be ? Right ?

 

[MyPad]

In the last phase of the current chapter, Lord Brian should have the ability to empower the Elites with his shadow powers so that they become more resistant to magic damage, their only weakness. This can be implemented as a mission-exclusive upgrade.

In the current iteration of the chapter, Flesh Golems are spell immune, making debuffs useless against it, unless they pierce spell immunity. The Flesh Golems have a monstrous 3000 HP with about 10 - 11 armor to boot, making its effective health 4800 - 5280 HP (assuming +6% per armor point). To make it more manageable, they should lose either some HP or base armor or both.

 

[nchp1903]

This sounds dope ngl. A maxed out army will have a maximum of 20 Elites instead of 14, which is almost 50% more effective.

Anyway, I also have ideas to overhaul the two Bonis, making them more double-edged, so hear me out.

Trained by Thanok: Falls into the good-but-boring archetype. It's made for prolonged combat, so I'm thinking of something like:
Dark Warrior and Endless War now provides lifesteal, but Envenomed Sword is no longer available.

One of Us: The name gives me a hivemind-ish vibe, like they're being convinced by totally-not-brainwashed Claire to fight with zeal. So something like: Elites can no longer benefit from armor upgrades or use Defend, but they gain a lot more damage, attack speed and movement speed.

Edit: The suggestion to make Brian give a boost is also good. Maybe if the player manages to get this far without a Boni, they can unlock a secret Brian's Boni that replaces Defend/Resistant Skin with Spell Defense (without) movement speed penalty.

 

[Karmondia]

This sounds dope ngl. A maxed out army will have a maximum of 20 Elites instead of 14, which is almost 50% more effective.

Anyway, I also have ideas to overhaul the two Bonis, making them more double-edged, so hear me out.

Trained by Thanok: Falls into the good-but-boring archetype. It's made for prolonged combat, so I'm thinking of something like:
Dark Warrior and Endless War now provides lifesteal, but Envenomed Sword is no longer available.

One of Us: The name gives me a hivemind-ish vibe, like they're being convinced by totally-not-brainwashed Claire to fight with zeal. So something like: Elites can no longer benefit from armor upgrades or use Defend, but they gain a lot more damage, attack speed and movement speed.

Edit: The suggestion to make Brian give a boost is also good. Maybe if the player manages to get this far without a Boni, they can unlock a secret Brian's Boni that replaces Defend/Resistant Skin with Spell Defense (without) movement speed penalty.

This sounds awesome. Double edged but very powerful boni on missions like this sounds like a good idea. Trained by Thanok and One of Us could even stay, and we could get one or two extra choices. The problem with this mission is, that whatever you do, you are limited to 14 Elites, (and then you don't have anything else) in a mission where only Elites are effective (at least on hard). I have 28000 gold and who knows how much lumber, yet I can't make an army that can kill that base, because I'm capped at 100 supply. I've tower spammed the entrance, so they will never be able to get out, and they keep replacing those flesh golems, they keep making those Death Revenants, and I can't defeat them, because by the time they are dead, I'm dead as well. By the time I trained enough elites to try again, they have replaced every lost unit as well. It's a stalemate, one that can't be broken, at least I can't break it. And again, on hard Elites and Golems are the "way to go", making footmen and archers is a death sentence, because almost everything has area of effect damage and hardened skin. The only units that are "good" here, are those that can hit hard, and take a lot of punishment, hence the golems and elites. More extreme boni could help, or raising the food cap/lowering the food cost of the elite (or nerfing the revenants, because them having death coil and raise dead is op). I understand that balancing the game around hard difficulty is bad, because it makes normal too easy, but this mission could use some changes. It was fine when you had hydromancers, because they were broken (but so was your enemy), but now it is ridiculous. The enemy outnumbers you, and outclasses you with their superior units. This mission is really fun but it could use work, we could have some additional tools to play with, for example.

 

[nchp1903]

Well, on the brightside, at least there aren't any Legionnaire or Lifescorcher.

As for the floating resources problem, I made use of them by building 12 Workshops just outside the gate, 8 for Golems, and 4 for Catapult. Give them a taste of their own medicine by making use of my ceaseless production.
And yes, no Barracks. Barracks' units are the Death Revenants' best friends.
(Also, I think they have respawnable Acolytes too. Crazy.)

 

[DD Mikasa]

I suppose a move from one dimensional boni's to a buff/debuff one would be a change in a new direction, as far as I know there exist non in the game right now most of them are either general stat buffs for a special/group of unit/units or give you access to a new unit in your tech tree (i.e gardon's bloodclaws pack)

Now i think this might have crossed shar's mind but considering the extra codding it might require add here in top of terrain building, triggers, changes due to balance issues that need to be made, Ai etc would that be a touch time consuming?
While this one and done elite production reduction boni would be much easier to implement, we have to keep in mind that the true story is a work in progress, Shar does much of the chapter building and him having to put on extra time on new codding for different bonis while he has to work on new chapters might not be that realistic due to time constrains.
But i am glad a majority of us here agree that Clair's boni is underwhelming and might need a slight revamp or a total rework.

Its not like access to the weakest Hero in the human roster helps that much anyway (yeah ill keep saying it Brian is more of a burden than a help you have to constantly waste gold on him to revive him)

 

[Karmondia]

As for the floating resources problem, I made use of them by building 12 Workshops just outside the gate, 8 for Golems, and 4 for Catapult. Give them a taste of their own medicine by making use of my ceaseless production.
And yes, no Barracks. Barracks' units are the Death Revenants' best friends.

Well, since Elites were not fit for the job, I decided to try the golem, catapult strategy. It still doesn't work. The enemy simply has too much... Here is a video, where I relentlessly attack with workshop units, and fail miserably:

The problem is, that no matter what you do, a 100 supply army can't contest a 200 supply army, where every unit they have, is better than every unit you have. Just look at the Death Revenant: It has 1500 hp, 11 armor (and hardened skin), 600 mana, 64-92 chaos damage and completely overpowered spells. Even the "weaker" Ice Revenant has 1100 hp, 10 armor (and hardened skin), 500 mana, 52-76 chaos damage, VAMPIRIC AURA and op spells. The weakest one, the Frost Revenant has 450 hp and 21-29 damage, but that doesn't matter because he is not going to attack you with his normal attack. He has BLIZZARD, which means he will cast it whenever he feels like it (which is most of the time). Everyone remembers, how in missions where you fight against the demons (most notably in "The Gate of Hell"), doom guards like to cast rain of fire on your forces. These guys do the same thing. One blizzard or rain of fire on your army is ok, you can move out of it. But when 5 of them are active at the same time, you can't really do anything about it, especially in choke points. The damage stacks up, and kill your heavy armored units that are weak to magic damage. So while the Frost Revenant seems like a minor threat, he is actually, while not as strong as the other two, still a huge threat. And don't even get me started on the Flesh Golems. By the time you kill those monsters, the enemy army arrives to greet you, meaning you can't snipe their production buildings, and you can't ignore them, because they are right there at the entrance. And the enemy can build ALL OF THESE UNITS NON STOP for free, while I (as you may have seen it in the video) burn through thousands of gold, to build my subpar units. You can't outbuild them, because they SPAM these bad boys non stop.

 

[DD Mikasa]

Well, since Elites were not fit for the job, I decided to try the golem, catapult strategy. It still doesn't work. The enemy simply has too much... Here is a video, where I relentlessly attack with workshop units, and fail miserably:

The problem is, that no matter what you do, a 100 supply army can't contest a 200 supply army, where every unit they have, is better than every unit you have. Just look at the Death Revenant: It has 1500 hp, 11 armor (and hardened skin), 600 mana, 64-92 chaos damage and completely overpowered spells. Even the "weaker" Ice Revenant has 1100 hp, 10 armor (and hardened skin), 500 mana, 52-76 chaos damage, VAMPIRIC AURA and op spells. The weakest one, the Frost Revenant has 450 hp and 21-29 damage, but that doesn't matter because he is not going to attack you with his normal attack. He has BLIZZARD, which means he will cast it whenever he feels like it (which is most of the time). Everyone remembers, how in missions where you fight against the demons (most notably in "The Gate of Hell"), doom guards like to cast rain of fire on your forces. These guys do the same thing. One blizzard or rain of fire on your army is ok, you can move out of it. But when 5 of them are active at the same time, you can't really do anything about it, especially in choke points. The damage stacks up, and kill your heavy armored units that are weak to magic damage. So while the Frost Revenant seems like a minor threat, he is actually, while not as strong as the other two, still a huge threat. And don't even get me started on the Flesh Golems. By the time you kill those monsters, the enemy army arrives to greet you, meaning you can't snipe their production buildings, and you can't ignore them, because they are right there at the entrance. And the enemy can build ALL OF THESE UNITS NON STOP for free, while I (as you may have seen it in the video) burn through thousands of gold, to build my subpar units. You can't outbuild them, because they SPAM these bad boys non stop.

I like how there isn't just a full minute in the video and Brian is already dead xD.

I dont think golem spam is the way though, I think the only way you can break the last base in Hard is through cheese and cheese alone maybe the strategy I used on normal (elite cav and healers) might work here too, I aint gonna even bother to try it since this chapter is stress inducing as it is.

 

[nchp1903]

I beat it on Hard with Golem spam, but here is how I did it. (Don't know if my 1.31 WC3 affect the A.I or not though) I'll tried to be as detailed as possible with my demonstration, using an old save game:

Spoiler: Workshop strat

• The gate is the key, because you can't fight the Revenants in open field. The bottom Workshop line can be placed further down for you to squeeze in a few Cannon Towers for extra AoE damage.
• Once the whole thing is set up, use one Golem to pull all enemy force to you. Use your Catapults to target fire Flesh Golems and Death Revenants, since they can heal other units.
• Make a slow push through the second gate while keeping up production. Once you're through the second gate, the Traitors and the next Revenant wave will now come to stop you. Use a few Shadow Creatures and Golems to distract while the rest do one of these things in any order. If failed, repeat from step one.

1. This patch of tree must be obliterated with Catapults, while the Golems and Brian buy time for them.

(This one is optional, if you have trouble smacking the Castle.)

2. Rush in and destroy the Traitor's Castle and their Peasants, which will screw up their A.I, and greatly weakens their production. Remember to use Arcane Tower to check if any Peasant/Militia survive the onslaught, then send it your batch of Golems to deal with them. If the Golems can retreat, good. If not, it's not the end of the world.
- Once the two tasks are done, we'll proceed through the next phase of the plan.
1. This phase is basically a blitzkrieg, so movement is needed. Only use a few Catapults to defend instead of attack.
2. Wait for the attack wave to come to you instead of pulling them yourself, then defend against it easily, because the Traitors can't help anymore. If done correctly, the Flesh Golems will still be alive, which is good. Yes, good. You heard it right, because the next steps will be hindered if they rebuild their Flesh Golems, but they won't rebuild it if the old ones don't die in the first place.
3. Remember the patch of trees I told you to clear? Right click the entire army there. The one or two Darksteel Golems (or Shadow Creatures, better alternative because of Taunt) that are being targeted by the Flesh Golems, will be left behind.
4. Now, use your Arcane Towers to scan the base. Their forces should be agitated by now and will move out to attack. Once they walk past the trees, send your entire hidden force to the Black Citadel. If Walmart Vanessa comes, ignores her because her damage is trash. And don't bother killing the Acolyte, since he can respawn. It may take more than one attempt. If you know you can't kill it in one run, pull them back to cause at much destruction as possible to their production line.
5. Anyway, once the Citadel is down, that's pretty much it. That thing takes one thousand years to be rebuilt, and by that time, they can't scramble up enough Death Revenants and Golems to deal with you anymore (or in my case, they stop training Flesh Golems altogether).

With that being said, I feel like this last part of the mission is built like a puzzle, which is...'unique'. And if everything fails, I have a much more effective strat that I just thought of: Wait for Kasrkin to upload his run.

 

[Kasrkin]

Wait for Kasrkin to upload his run.

ALL IN DUE TIME
Shadows are great, having a taunt is great, a spell immune taunter that I can send at annoying revenants to keep them occupied somewhere else? Even better.

Spoiler

 

[Enki555]

Phew. It's been so long, and I got spoiled heavily xD. As long as it goes:
-Crown of the Frost Mistress was originally supposed to be for undead Vanessa or no? Order of the Frost, surprising it sounds, fits well for Toran's bond with undead. After I come from countryside, I will play and review xD
-And how I yearned to play liberation of Toran with undead . Guess three chapters in one city would feel redundant... But hey, dark elven arc had 3 chapters too xD with same underground setting.
-So, remnants of Order of the Frost is assimilated unto Zirr Nexus, right? Guess new units in Zirr roster then xD
-(I really hope Undead will be given enough love XD)
-Next mission would be probably Salrian mountain mission or our favorite dish in the castle. Or maybe defense of reclaimed Toran. Or elven forest corruption dunno hha.
-The previous chapter: After taking Elrin's base, it would've been nice to at least train hydromancers at Jadira's cargo. They had the best aoe and rlly miss it so much (also hated thanks to hell of dmg tearing my army). Cora ult with Larine healing is broken combo. It was quite breezy at Woras and Elrin's base but 3rd base was much complicated as it required diving right unto noble. The reward is high and sparing those buildings helped at last. The last part, however... will be nightmare if u don't engage on highground. I made a fatal mistake by directly engaging and scattering my forces for first to penultimate waves and losing almost all gold. Only way to rectify was get unto high place and let Cora ult while defending with leftovers I had. Rlly nice mercenary mission. Keep it up