Melee Mapping contest #3 - Poll

[Mr.Henci]

MELEE MAPPING CONTEST #3 - POLL

Create a 4v4 melee map that excels in balance, terrain, dynamic, and creativity, while beeing suitable for the Warcraft III Reforged.

• Each user can only vote once in the poll.
• Judges can't vote in the public poll
• You cannot vote for yourself. If a voter has the same IP as the author then the vote will not be counted and it may result in the disqualification of the entry.
• You cannot create multiple accounts to vote for an entry in the poll. If a voter has been found to be using multiple accounts none of the voters votes will count in the final result.
• You cannot bribe users for votes. Contestants who break this rule will be disqualified and given negative reputation.
• You cannot invite friends to vote strictly for you in the poll.

• 1st place: 30 reputation points
• 2nd place: 20 reputation points
• 3rd place: 10 reputation points
• Judges: 5 rep

The three winning entries will receive an award icon, representing the winning entry.

• @WTii
• @W3Sour

Participant	Final Entry
1. @Knecht	Legion's Demise
2. @mafe	Northern Felwood
3. @JaleVeliki	Nerubian Passage
4. @Rockstar356	Cold Butterfly
5. @Ragnaros17	Frostfloe Deep
6. @Khaldaiel	Scar of Northrend
7. @fostaa	Burning Steppes
8. @Ascrelle	Treacherous Waters
9. @mmtt	Frozen Peak
10. @Loner-Magixxar	Arctic Dream
11. @sentrywiz	Underground Fortress (8)
12. @XanderD	Golden Oases
13. @DuckDuckGoose	Taken City
14. @Restor	Desert Mirage
15. @Arrr	Northmarsh Ruin v1.1

Balance	Is the map balanced for both teams? Are the positions and distance between points of interest fair? Does the map allow the 4 races to be balanced? Consider balance when implementing the pathing, resources, creep camps, and item drops.	50/100
Terrain	Is the map visually pleasing in mediums of terrain, doodad placement, and overall theme? Is the map repetitive? Is the aesthetic well designed but not overly obstructive?	35/100
Creativity & Uniqueness	Does the map bring something new or creative to the table?	15/100
Bugs	Scores may be brought down if there are bug-like issues such as faulty pathing, unusable resources, etc	-

• 80% of the winner shall be determined by the contest's appointed judge(s).
• 20% of the winner shall be determined by the results of a public poll.

Contest thread can be found here: Melee Mapping Contest #3
You can download all the contest entries in the ZIP file down bellow.

Assigned Moderator: @Naze

 

[Restor]

Well I must say this will be very hard to pick the 5 best

 

[deepstrasz]

Guys, please try to give 5 votes (the maximum). Only if you so desire not to give so many but I think that you should use the limit because that's why it's there to create better statistics when usually there aren't that many people voting anyway.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Apologies for that, can you please revert it so I can give my vote for someone else

Not the first time this happen, don´t worry, just wait Naze response.

 

[JaleVeliki]

It probably happens every time because the poll is located above the rules (maybe should mention there's rules if you scroll bellow in the poll name or something).

 

[fostaa]

Hey guys,

This is my first contest that I participate in and I'd like to admit that I showed the contest to two of my friends that we usually play together. Neither I, nor they knew that we should vote for more than one map here and that is why I have two direct votes this way. Since I want to stick with the rules, as this happened unintentionally, I'd like my vote and the vote of user "Radikalen" to be reset so we can actually vote properly (the other friend of mine hasn't voted yet).
Apologies for the misunderstanding but I prefer to be honest rather than leaving it this way.
As a suggestion - can we please ask Ralle to attend a little bit and change the poll so that the minimum maps of choice are 2 or 3 (or even 5) - this way we will have a fair voting system.

Thank you for the understanding

 

[deepstrasz]

As a suggestion - can we please ask Ralle to attend a little bit and change the poll so that the minimum maps of choice are 2 or 3 (ot even 5) - this way we will have a fair voting system.

@Naze is the contest moderator.
There is a minimum of 1 vote and max of 5. The poll informs about it.

 

[Naze]

Hello everyone!

The poll has been up for a few days and very few votes were cast yet, but we had 2 "illegal" votes. Due to the circumstances the poll has been reset.

Friendly reminder:

• Don't vote for yourself
• Judges aren't allowed to vote ( @W3Sour and @WTii )
• Overall, just read the rules

---

@fostaa you can vote for up to 5 entries (this number comes from 1/3 of total entries rounded down when it's the case), and the site offers no option to put a minimum, so we can't do that. Also since it's your first offense and I had to reset the poll, the self-vote has been removed, just be sure not to do it again. You're not removed from the contest. Usually when the poll has been up for many days and has a lot of votes, you won't be given the option to have the vote removed (we have no way of doing that). The normal procedure is to give -5 points in the final score and then the vote would be ignored when calculating the scores.

---

PS: Also now the the poll has been reset, most of the posts above refer to things non-existent, being off-topic. Those posts have been removed.

 

[W3Sour]

haha.. oops. I just wanted to see the results actually so I picked any map.

I have looked over all the maps and am making my judgements now

thanks for entering

 

[deepstrasz]

The results can be seen by clicking the green View Results button under the poll, the button right under the one called Cast Your Vote.

 

[WolfFarkas]

I want to wish good luck everybody.

I am taking notes in a excel file, because is hard to decide.

all maps have a lot of work, and is like put in a balance, he did this... but he did that, but he has this wich is great... but oh here is a bug...
so is hard to chosee.

 

[Kantu]

GLGL brave memers!
Might the fearsome spirit of tower rushing not destroy your gold mines!

 

[Knecht]

@Ragnaros17 Excel? Are you going to make some graphs and tables like the ones in the contest thread? Might be interesting to compare some more data from the maps.
Hopefully I'll have more time in February, I'd like to have a thorough look at the maps before I cast my vote.

 

[WolfFarkas]

@Ragnaros17 Excel? Are you going to make some graphs and tables like the ones in the contest thread? Might be interesting to compare some more data from the maps.
Hopefully I'll have more time in February, I'd like to have a thorough look at the maps before I cast my vote.

Same here, I can´t remember things if I don´t take notes, so I take notes and compare maps, bugs like aggro, camara limits, bottle necks, no or few AOW options, I also want to think well which maps I am going to vote (also I got 2 weeks, no more mapping).
But no, no graphs.
Something like this. I only show as example my bugs (those that I know), because I don´t want to speak of the bugs I think may be in others maps.

I think I will cast my vote next weekend.
Is nice to see those numbers rolling

 

[Restor]

Hmm, can I ask what that "N path" in the E column means?

I personally would go with probably just ordinary "quick review" in WE and maybe play one game on it and then decide if I like it or not. So it will be mostly based on the first impression and mostly on the visual."

And the order of the maps for me (from best to worst) will be set that the first map will be at the bottom of the ranking (well, because it will be the very first map, it will be also on the first spot as well), and then I will compare the second map to the first, if it is beter, if yes, it will move in the front of the previous map (so it wil be in order: "second, first"). The third map will be compared to the map on the very bottom of the list, and if it is better, it will move in the front of it (in this case it will be in the second spot of the three maps, like "second, third, first") and then it will be compared to the map just above itself, etc. And so on until it will be find as not better than the map in front of it or if itself will be on the very top of the list.

I hope it makes some sense :-D (ofc it will be without my own map, just the rest 14 of them)

I just hate making marks, because I find it harder to decide which mark some map should get, but if I have two maps, I can quite fast decide which I like more.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Hmm, can I ask what that "N path" in the E column means?

I personally would go with probably just ordinary "quick review" in WE and maybe play one game on it and then decide if I like it or not. So it will be mostly based on the first impression and mostly on the visual."

And the order of the maps for me (from best to worst) will be set that the first map will be at the bottom of the ranking (well, because it will be the very first map, it will be also on the first spot as well), and then I will compare the second map to the first, if it is beter, if yes, it will move in the front of the previous map (so it wil be in order: "second, first"). The third map will be compared to the map on the very bottom of the list, and if it is better, it will move in the front of it (in this case it will be in the second spot of the three maps, like "second, third, first") and then it will be compared to the map just above itself, etc. And so on until it will be find as not better than the map in front of it or if itself will be on the very top of the list.

I hope it makes some sense :-D (ofc it will be without my own map, just the rest 14 of them)

I just hate making marks, because I find it harder to decide which mark some map should get, but if I have two maps, I can quite fast decide which I like more.

1) Number of paths, like 6 vertical and 4 horizontal. I won´t decide much with that. But maps with more paths are better than those with few paths like 2 vertical 2 horizontal. But also a lot of paths may end in bottle necks and chokes points, chokepoints are not good neither.

"play one game"
I need to see all the map, the loot, the pathings, the walling option, the AOW positions, I play the game in my head (also to much lag with this low core pc).

"on the first impression and mostly on the visual"
Not to me, about visuals I can say:

- All users have more or less same skill with tile mixing.
- Some users put more doodas or less doodads but that would mean a score change about 15/35 to 35/35.


Enviroment 35% , Balance 50%, so to un-tie maps I focus on balance mostly ( some things like "he screw the center the other screw the goblin markets, that one has agro here and there, no AOW positions in water, gaps between trees, " lot of stuff).

which I like more."
- I like more ice maps than forest maps, still I would not decide my vote with that.

to me is not if I like it or not, a map may be very beauty and worked but have tons of bugs about balance,
A map It may have a great overall balance but screw it in some very basic points and I may consider others maps.

In the 2nd melee contest, I worked a lot my map but screw it in a huge way with the base layout.

( I can also say that voted because of visuals mostly in the 1st melee contest when I had little knowledge in balance, but not anymore).

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

I really liked treacherous water with the sentries on the small islands. I only wish it had been pushed a bit more as there's no real contest on who gets what.
I had fun with Scar of Northrend when I played with friends but I think it might work better as a 2v2v2v2 map.

 

[Heinvers]

Notice added!

 

[WolfFarkas]

Notice added!

thanks, that was faster than a pizza delivery.

 

[JaleVeliki]

I've already linked the poll to about 5-6 different discord wc3 / mapmaker / gaming channels yesterday.

 

[WolfFarkas]

I finished in writting my opinions about the 15 maps. I only point positive things.

Someone is interested that I post those comments here? (or better not?).

 

[JaleVeliki]

I finished in writting my opinions about the 15 maps. I only point positive things.

Someone is interested that I post those comments here? (or better not?).

I will also post short comment on current map zip, go go!

 

[WolfFarkas]

I will also post short comment on current map zip, go go!

Thanks. I would really like to read your comments too (special my map, but also I wish to see if we have similar ideas).

My opinions about the maps. I only point positive things (no negative things).
Very subjetive so I point things in one map and forget to point in others.
For my vote I will aso consider bugs or things that affect the game. But I will not mention them.
Won´t cast my vote yet but maybe this post may be interesting,
I hope someone enjoy it (if you think something is out of place, let me know).

Show 14 maps

1)Legion Demise by Knetch:

Balance
+ Paths 5 verticals, 3 horizontals mainly.
+ Loot is good and balanced in general, low considering marketplace.
+Base layouts. Walling the base is posible.
+ Wide Paths.
+ Creeps well placed.

Creativity:
+ Few creeps increase chance of early pvp.
+ Paired goldmines.
+ Very Good mix of Fellwood and Northrend tiles.
+Unguarded mana fountain in the center may be an interesting thing.

Enviroment:
+ Very good tile-mix and doodads use for fellwood map.

2) Northrend Fellwood by mafe:

Balance
+ Base shape with walling option.
+ Paths: 10 verticals, 6 horizontals mainly.
+ AOW positions in the 4 goblin shops.
+ Very good Loot.
+ Overall good creeps positions.
+ All paths Wide.

Creativity
+ Players Positions.
+ Goblin lab in the center of the map.
+ Well definition of forest areas and swamps areas.

Enviroment:
+ Very good tile mix and good use of doodads.

3) Nerubian Passage by Jaleveliki

Balance
+Paths 9 vertical, 6 horizontal.
+ AOW positions to creep in Merc. Camps, Goblin Labs and nerubian + skeletons L17 camp.
+ Overall Good loot and creeps.

Creativity:
+ Nice Neutrals buildings layout (goldmines in special).
+ Nice enviroment that fits with the “Nerubian” theme.
+ Pathing options.

Enviroment:
+ Very good tile mix and great use of doodads for enviroment.

4)Cold Butterfly by Rockstar 356

Balance
+ Paths: 6 Verticals.
+ AOW positions in 4 orange creeps in each side + AOW goblin shops.
+ Very good loot and creeps.
+ Creeps well placed.

Creativity
+ Paired goldmines
+ Competitive goblin markets.
+ Map shape does look like a butterfly.

Enviroment:
+ Very good tile-mix.

5) Scar of Northrend by Khaldaiel:

Balance:
+ Bases have walling option.
+ AOW creep options in goblin markets and other orange creeps.
+ To lazy to count all paths. Lot of paths.

Creativity:
+ I can recognice a grass area and a much more frozen area.
+ Terraining and cliff use has a lot of complexity.
+ Interesting player distribution.

Enviroment:
+ Very good tile mix and doodads use.

6) Burning Steppes by fostaa

Balance:
+ Bases have walling option.
+ Nice clasic octogon shape.
+ AOW positions to creep in goblin markets and merc camps.
+ Bridges with unbuildable tiles avoid towers exploits.

Creativity:
+ Nice volcano and lava rivers.
+ Nice mix of dungeon and barrens tiles.
+ Many expanding options (3) is an interesting thing.

Enviroment:
+ Very good tile mix and use of doodads (clever use of northrend trees).

7) Treacherous Waters by Ascrelle:

Balance:
+ 2 Horizontal, 3 vertical, nice boat map mainly.
+ Good creeps and good Loot.
+ AOW creeping option in merc camps and in powerfull green creep that loots perma L 2.

Creativity:
+ Nice Boat map.
+ North players play different in land than the north players.
+ Interesting use of way-gates to land attack the enemy.
+ Map seems to increase the chance of very early pvp with small size and easy expandings.

Enviroment:
+ Nice tile mix and doodads use.

8)Frozen Peak by mmtt:

Balance:
+Way-gates to short walk.
+Lot of goldmines
+Paths: me layzy, complex, a lot.
+AOW postion at merc camps, orge level 16 creeps, and goblin markets.
+Huge map with many options.

Creativity:
+ 2 different great areas, green forest and center frost, plus the sea.

Enviroment:
+Great tile mix and cliff use, very complex.

9) Artic Dream by Loner-Magixxar:

Balance:
+ AOW positions in goblin markets and merc. Camps.
+ Paths too layzy to count + boats.
+ 2 expanding options per player.
+ Creeps are well placed.
+ Way-gates allow early pvp.
+ Loot is nice.

Creativity:
+ Tile mix and doodad use is very impressive.
+ Interesting layout + Map offers boat use.
+ Lots of place to visit may allow many strategies.
+ Personal opinion, I like the marketplace with an ice rock gate with 500 hp.

Enviroment:
+ Great use of doodads and tile mix.

10) Underground Fortress by Sentrywiz:

Balance:
+Is an interesting design, that it clearly shows a lot of work.
+ It looks fun like war-chasers or some kind of dungeon map clearing.
+It focus on PVE.But after clearing a red creep level 20, pvp can be done.

Creativity:
+ Maze design.
+ This map inspired me to a posible dungeon design contest.

Enviroment:
+ Nice doodad use.
+ Interesting cliff use.

11) Golden Oases by XanderD:

Balance:
+ To layzy to count paths options, great paths complex.
+ I like the expanding golemines positions.
+ I never use a dragon roost, I like the idea in this map.
+ Nice creep selection and good loot.

Creativity:
+ Waterfalls
+ Tile mix in the center
+ few mer camp, goblin market, goblin lab, competitive.

Enviroment:
+ Very good tile-mix
+ A lot of doodads use.

12)Taken City by Duckduckgoose:

Balance:
+ Wide Paths.
+ Interesting layout.
+ Paths: 4 Verticals, 5 horizontals. I like the paths options.

Creativity:
+ Asimetry: NE is different from SW.
+ Nice city map.

Enviroment:
+ Nice mix of city tiles. Nice doodads use giving a magic city theme.

13)Desert Mirage by Restor:

Balance:
+ Paths 7 vertical, 6 horizontal, I think.
+ Bases shape with walling option.
+ 2 goldmines per player.
+ Nice clasic octogon shape.
+ Creeps use on expandings. 1 expanding is easy, other hard because of air units.
+ AOW positions in goblin labs and goblin markets.

Creativity:
+ Enviroment is very live for a barrens map.

Enviroment:
+ A lot of work in tile mix and doodads use.

14) Northmarsh Ruins by Arrr:

Balance
+ Creeps selection
+ Paths: to layzy to count, very complex.
+ Taverns are competitive.
+ 11 expanding golmines. 1 for competitition.

Creativity:
+ waygate in the center.
+ Tile mix.
+ Map has a lot of different areas with different tilesets.
+ few merc camp, goblin market, goblin lab, competitive.

Enviroment:
+ A lot of work with the tile-mix and the doodads use.

Overall all 14 maps have a lot work
Really hard to decide a top 5.

 

[Restor]

"+ A lot of work in tile mix and doodads use."

Well, that literally made me laugh :-D, I was making tile mix and placing doodads on Saturday and Sunday, and I was in little rush then, but thank you for your feedback

and Barrens has lots of air creeps, and unlike for example Lordaeron Summer, Barrens's air creeps are not jus the tough ones (like red dragoons) but even the weak harpies, so you can have a relatively easy creep spot (even green one) but all creeps can be flying types , so that can bring something new to the game

 

[WolfFarkas]

"+ A lot of work in tile mix and doodads use."

Well, that literally made me laugh :-D, I was making tile mix and placing doodads on Saturday and Sunday, and I was in little rush then, but thank you for your feedback

and Barrens has lots of air creeps, and unlike for example Lordaeron Summer, Barrens's air creeps are not jus the tough ones (like red dragoons) but even the weak harpies, so you can have a relatively easy creep spot (even green one) but all creeps can be flying types , so that can bring something new to the game

Me: not always I am creative by spoting creativity on maps.

In my opinion about air creeps.

Undead can not creep air creeps till tier 2. (nerubians with web skill, or hero with the silk web item from the shop, both require tier 2). Unless you chose the lich hero Kelthuzan or dark ranger in the tavern.

But Undead tend to play with DK, Malganis hero or Nerubian hero too. They are nice tanks.

while the others races have anti air units in tier 1: orcs have trolls, humans riflemans, Ne archers.

So IMO I am not fan of air units in low level creeps green or orange. To balance the undead early in tier 1.
If I use air creeps I like them more in red creeps.


I learned that from the wc3 youtube user Orange and I am stick to that melee knoledge since then.
Orange

 

[Restor]

yes that's true, I never thought about that in this way. But there are many other creeps on that map and if it will be played as team game, it is not that big issue like in 1v1 perhaps

 

[WolfFarkas]

yes that's true, I never thought about that in this way. But there are many other creeps on that map and if it will be played as team game, it is not that big issue like in 1v1 perhaps

About the air creeps, I was talking in general, and in plays where players creep everyone by himself.
thats true, not an issue in team games, is just the 1v1 theory is so stick in my skin that I use it in all.

 

[Restor]

As i am reviewing other maps, this thing what many maps suffer IMHO is that many "dead ends", i.e. some path, on which end there is a creep and/or shop or whatever, but there is no other way out of there, so army can be pretty easy trapped there. In most of the common played ladder maps there are no such dead ends, because from almost every place on the map the army can escape from chasing by the enemy

 

[WolfFarkas]

As i am reviewing other maps, this thing what many maps suffer IMHO is that many "dead ends", i.e. some path, on which end there is a creep and/or shop or whatever, but there is no other way out of there, so army can be pretty easy trapped there. In most of the common played ladder maps there are no such dead ends, because from almost every place on the map the army can escape from chasing by the enemy

Yes important point.
I should be crowned king of the dead ends. My bug.
That bug appeared in my map when I was forced to move starting positions foward to reduce walk between teams + very small map.

 

[Restor]

yeah, that central goblin shop between two starting locations, but I dont thing that some enemy would like to go buy stuff to the shop just between two enemy bases

 

[deepstrasz]

Yes important point.
I should be crowned king of the dead ends. My bug.

I don't see it as a bug. It's makes for diverse strategy. If every map is the same, then it's a boring game.

 

[WolfFarkas]

I don't see it as a bug. It's makes for diverse strategy. If every map is the same, then it's a boring game.

glad to hear it but:

In the second melee contest, I had my mercenary camps in dead ends, and that was spoted as bugs, and to get approval of the map, I fixed that.
there was a single path to reach the merc. camp and then you had to go back for the same road.

by the way (trying to be on topic), congrats! to mafe and XanderD they shure are doing well on the poll for the moment.
edited

 

[deepstrasz]

In the second melee contest, I had my mercenary camps in dead ends, and that was spoted as bugs, and to get approval of the map, I fixed that.

You mean because the mercenaries were trapped between doodads? Otherwise, I see no problem.

 

[sentrywiz]

g
by the way (trying to be on topic), congrats! to mafe and XanderD they shure are doing well on the poll for the moment.
edited

I was just gonna say the same thing.
Making melee maps is a skill on itself and some guys have better practice and knowledge.
Nothing against them, you make what you're interested in.
Even though I like making maps, melee maps are my least favorite.

Your map isn't doing bad either. Even my map and all other 1 vote maps aren't doing bad.
We got to participate, winning is icing on the cake.

Acknowledgement feels great, but to me and maybe others the feeling of
completing a map and releasing it on hive and other sites feels like winning.

 

[Mr.Henci]

@sentrywiz even the guy with the least points can be proud of himself, since he managed to create a 4v4 in time. Look how many users, including me, weren't able to finish their entries in time.

 

[WolfFarkas]

@sentrywiz even the guy with the least points can be proud of himself, since he managed to create a 4v4 in time. Look how many users, including me, weren't able to finish their entries in time.

true

I was just gonna say the same thing.
Making melee maps is a skill on itself and some guys have better practice and knowledge.
Nothing against them, you make what you're interested in.
Even though I like making maps, melee maps are my least favorite.

Your map isn't doing bad either. Even my map and all other 1 vote maps aren't doing bad.
We got to participate, winning is icing on the cake.

Acknowledgement feels great, but to me and maybe others the feeling of
completing a map and releasing it on hive and other sites feels like winning.

I didn´t want to make a problematic comment, just a fast attempt to try to be on topic. Because I was going very offtopic with my dead ends discuss.

Dead ends may be bugs or not depending on the situation or the zone where they are placed. Or the distance to walk to reach the dead end.

and about the poll with so many great maps, votes are pretty much scattered between entries, 3 here, 3 there, 2 here , 4 there, 5 here, 3 again there. So that mafe and XanderD achieved 9 each, is that they got a good impact from the public.
Is also nice to see all entries with at least 1 vote.
I hope at least 1 map from these 15 may reach Ladder play or melee play contest.

 

[Restor]

@Mr.Henci - as you said, I am proud of myself that I finished my map at all, because laziness is my second name , and I started only after Christmas, so I just had around three weeks only

And I am glad that my favorites have the most votes for the time being

 

[sentrywiz]

@sentrywiz even the guy with the least points can be proud of himself, since he managed to create a 4v4 in time. Look how many users, including me, weren't able to finish their entries in time.

Exactly, well said.

true



and about the poll with so many great maps, votes are pretty much scattered between entries, 3 here, 3 there, 2 here , 4 there, 5 here, 3 again there. So that mafe and XanderD achieved 9 each, is that they got a good impact from the public.
Is also nice to see all entries with at least 1 vote.
I hope at least 1 map from these 15 may reach Ladder play or melee play contest.

Public poll can be very random, as @Mr.Henci said somewhere in the contest, map will be judged in about a month.
So this will take a while, and by the time results come most of us might forget the contest xD

And yeah, it sucks when a map gets 0 votes, even if it really sucks, I'm sure some effort and thought went into it.
Its a shame if it doesn't get acknowledgement, but people are who they are, and what they like, they like and what they don't like, they don't. So I am glad like you that there are no maps on the bottom of the barrel, even though we can guess which ones are there.

In a way its like comparing ice cream flavors... you can't expect everyone to like strawberry or vanilla, that's why there
are so many flavors. But in no way possible is one ice cream flavor better than another. All truth is relative.

 

[deepstrasz]

All truth is relative.

Not in science. Anyways, you are right when it comes to people voting spontaneously but when it comes to those that actually give some thought to the maps, comparing it to flavours becomes moot.

 

[sentrywiz]

Not in science. Anyways, you are right when it comes to people voting spontaneously but when it comes to those that actually give some thought to the maps, comparing it to flavours becomes moot.

Science is very limited.
All truth is relative. Or better said - all in the eye of the beholder.
We should talk about science somewhere else though, I feel this isn't the thread.

I'm comparing people's tastes in maps, not the skill or knowledge that goes into map making.

 

[deepstrasz]

Science is very limited.
All truth is relative. Or better said - all in the eye of the beholder.

Tell that to physicists. If all truth is relative, then there is no truth which is false. The universe acts on a foundation of unchanging laws. Take chemistry for instance. Reactions come out how they should every time unless there's an interfering factor.

I'm comparing people's tastes in maps, not the skill or knowledge that goes into map making.

I'm comparing the skill that goes into people understanding the problems of a map like balance when they play it. But most people vote on a whim anyway.

 

[sentrywiz]

Tell that to physicists. If all truth is relative, then there is no truth which is false. The universe acts on a foundation of unchanging laws. Take chemistry for instance. Reactions come out how they should every time unless there's an interfering factor.

I'm comparing the skill that goes into people understanding the problems of a map like balance when they play it. But most people vote on a whim anyway.

The act of trying to explain something, dissects it. That's what science does - dissects things, analyzes them and says this is truth.
Science is all mind. No heart. No emotions. No thoughts. And it doesn't work that way... btw, explain the double slit experiment.

That's another skill entirely. That's more of an observer or a judge's point of view. But again.. still relative.
And yes people do do that. Because we're people

 

[deepstrasz]

Science is all mind. No heart. No emotions. No thoughts. And it doesn't work that way... btw, explain the double slit experiment.

Because science doesn't work on hormones it doesn't mean it's not true because you can't feel it.
I can't explain the double slit experiment. First of all, I'm not a physicist. Second, it's like you expect me to discover a cure for all cancers right now.
Who knows? Maybe there's interference somewhere and physicists haven't figured out where/why. Humanity probably will find out at some point and we might not live to see it, sadly.
Instead of giving an example of an enigma which means further research is required for its elucidation, you should use palpable ones. Otherwise, we're polemicizing over God's existence.

 

[sentrywiz]

Because science doesn't work on hormones it doesn't mean it's not true because you can't feel it.
I can't explain the double slit experiment. First of all, I'm not a physicist. Second, it's like you expect me to discover a cure for all cancers right now.
Who knows? Maybe there's interference somewhere and physicists haven't figured out where/why. Humanity probably will find out at some point and we might not live to see it, sadly.
Instead of giving an example of an enigma which means further research is required for its elucidation, you should use palpable ones. Otherwise, we're polemicizing over God's existence.

I never said its not true. All I said is truth is relative.
And that science is very limited. Because it boxes itself in, then claims universe is a box.

Why is it an enigma? Makes perfect sense to me. Because it proves truth is relative.
Here it is, explained in science terms: consciousness collapses the wave function of a particle.
Ok here's another then. "if a tree falls in the forest and there's no-one to hear it, does it make a sound?"

 

[deepstrasz]

@sentrywiz gone on your profile to avoid more off-topic.

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

I would like to thank whoever voted for my map, with it, I have achieved my goal of getting at least 1 vote. I can die happily now.

I have continued to work on it to make it more interesting cause I felt it lacked good terraining.

Obviously I would also love it if people could send me what they liked but more importantly what they disliked so I can improve the second version.

 

[WolfFarkas]

About voting, since from 14 maps I can only vote 5.
And there is stated the judging score 50% balance, 35 enviroment, 15% creativity, so I try to vote considering those values.
When I did my list of comments I was focusing in balance , enviroment and creativity (or try, is hard to point or define creativity).
(I did a list 3 times, because the second list was different than the first, but the third was equal to the second)
First list I made it considering bugs only.
Second list I made it considering bugs and good points.
Third list I did it with Restor method.
Still my vote is very subjetive, I can´t proper say if things like problems in the center of the map are more or less important than problems in lateral goldmines (as example).

My top 7 maps are in alphabetic order:

Arrr, Ascrelle, Jaleveliki, Knetch, Loner-Magixxar, mafe and Rockstar356

I decided to vote (alphabetic order):

Ascrelle, Knetch, Loner-Magixxar, mafe, Rockstar356.

I had to chosee by an inch.
But I want to say that Jaleveliki and Arrr maps are also great, a pity that to vote 5 I had to exclude the others two.

Overall all maps have a lot work

Really hard to decide a top 5.

it was a fun contest, good luck.

 

[Restor]

Well, does somebody know what the next melee contest theme will be about?

2v2 or what? I would like to make some 2v2 map

 

[WolfFarkas]

Well, does somebody know what the next melee contest theme will be about?

2v2 or what? I would like to make some 2v2 map

is a bit soon to talk for another melee contest, I mean lets wait the result of the poll, the results of the judges, cheers the winners, maybe some weeks of relax, and later say hey, one months since last melee contest someone wants another? and then create some polls..

 

[Knecht]

@Restor I know a strict deadline in form of a contest keeps people mapping but you can still create maps on your own without the need of competition. Or you can just try and play with the editor, I usually use the time in between contests to look for obscure stuff that could be used in melee, study it and think of its uses (be it gameplay elements or just visuals). That is when I have the spare time for it