Mathog's Arena v2.3

[Moderator]

18:45, 15th Aug 2014
Hell_Master: Map approved with a rating of 4/5. See SCN's review below:

	Mathog's Arena by Inferno11114 RATINGS Gameplay & Entertainment: 17/25 Terrain & Layout: 8/10 Doodads & Scenery: 7/10 Bugs & Consistency: 5/5 Total Score: 37/50 FEEDBACK Gameplay & Entertainment: Simple arena is simple. When you play this map, it is very easy for new comers to understand. It's not exactly exiting but it wouldn't be boring for most. In the beginning, I checked the quests and it was nice how everything was explained. I played 2 heroes, druid and the one healing knight. It would be nice to put in their descriptions if they are healers, as I'm sure not all intelligence heroes are healers. Most of the map is very straight forward, items with recipes, regular spawning creeps until bosses have some kind of unique ability. The custom heroes have edited preset spells from different units, there aren't much custom ones and ultimate spells are underwhelming. The biggest difference in this map compared to other arena's is that summoned units play a big role, in items and hero abilities. You can even upgrade your damage, and micro them as they have worthy abilities. The second thing I like about this is that you don't have a timer to finish shopping for items, as there are quite a bunch, but not to much to overwhelm yourself. Though, unlike many arena's of today, there isn't any top right table to check your kills, what the enemy units will be like in the future, what round you're on, and so on. (unless you read the beginning of the round) 17/25 ​ Terrain & Layout: Surprisingly, you cared about the terrain for an arena map. It's done moderately, most outside of the playable zone. Cliffs are a little high at places, height leveling is used to a point, and tiles are mixed fairly. The layout works perfectly, and it's nice how you don't have to stay in the middle of the map and get trapped. 8/10 ​ Doodads & Scenery: Decoration is fine in here. Trees and a few barren trademarked doodads are spread throughout the map, with few doodads in the arena portion. Their aren't much structure like things in here, besides Mathog's and the Hall of Champions area which are done half heartedly. The red haze around the map adds to the flavor. 7/10 ​ Bugs & Consistency: No bugs spotted. Everything works smoothly. 5/5 ​ Suggestions These suggestions are optional and some of these may be repeats. > Add more doodads around the map > Tone up the ability creativity ​ VERDICT The only way a map can be approved is if it follows the map submission rules. All rules but one rule is followed. Fix it and I will vote for approval. > Please add in your description if the map is open source and anyone may have it, unprotected but need permission, or protected.​ NOTES Overall the map is an organized arena with likeable gameplay but does not have much uniqueness. Feel free to contact me about this review, or to say hi! (+1) Reputation point for uploading and your hard work. Ratings 0-14 1 STAR 15-24 2 STARS 25-35 3 STARS 36-46 4 STARS 47-50 5 STARS Map reviewed 11 August 2014, version 1.1 [TD]

 

[JCarrill0]

Anyone interested to help test this map for a review?

 

[eubz]

Created by METALLICAOWNS ; Uploaded by: Inferno11114
are these the same person?

 

[Inferno11114]

Yes, they are both me, I just forgot to change the Author name in the world editor to my new Battle.net name. I'm working on a new version at the moment and that'll be fixed when I upload it.

 

[Vinz]

Before I registered to Hive I liked creating Arena maps in the Barrens as well. Wish you well with this map.

 

[XanX]

It's playable, i didn't see bugs during the game, you should maybe had more custom spells and maybe 2-3 players is'nt enought for that kind of map, (it's funnier to play with more people, and here if one leave it's over)

 

[Inferno11114]

I've thought about adding more players to the game, but it would make it exponentially hard to balance as I added more player slots. It's possible I may add more players in the future, but I don't even know how balanced it is on 3 player mode yet. The idea with this is that you could either play by yourself, or find 1-2 friends (people that aren't likely to leave) and get the game started. I think it would take forever to make a full house game on a new game nobody's ever heard of. I want to take it one step at a time. I know that all the standard heroes some may find boring, but I wanted to give players new to the game but not new to Warcraft a good place to start. They can pick a Hero they know how to use to make it a little easier to pick up the game. Some of the custom heroes also have standard spells I know, but quite a few have 3-4 custom abilities. A few of the items also have abilities that aren't normally on items. Not that can you can tell in game, but i do have 400 custom abilities in the Object Editor, so I'm not skimping on that thanks for the input!

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

	Mathog's Arena by Inferno11114 RATINGS Gameplay & Entertainment: 17/25 Terrain & Layout: 8/10 Doodads & Scenery: 7/10 Bugs & Consistency: 5/5 Total Score: 37/50 FEEDBACK Gameplay & Entertainment: Simple arena is simple. When you play this map, it is very easy for new comers to understand. It's not exactly exiting but it wouldn't be boring for most. In the beginning, I checked the quests and it was nice how everything was explained. I played 2 heroes, druid and the one healing knight. It would be nice to put in their descriptions if they are healers, as I'm sure not all intelligence heroes are healers. Most of the map is very straight forward, items with recipes, regular spawning creeps until bosses have some kind of unique ability. The custom heroes have edited preset spells from different units, there aren't much custom ones and ultimate spells are underwhelming. The biggest difference in this map compared to other arena's is that summoned units play a big role, in items and hero abilities. You can even upgrade your damage, and micro them as they have worthy abilities. The second thing I like about this is that you don't have a timer to finish shopping for items, as there are quite a bunch, but not to much to overwhelm yourself. Though, unlike many arena's of today, there isn't any top right table to check your kills, what the enemy units will be like in the future, what round you're on, and so on. (unless you read the beginning of the round) 17/25 ​ Terrain & Layout: Surprisingly, you cared about the terrain for an arena map. It's done moderately, most outside of the playable zone. Cliffs are a little high at places, height leveling is used to a point, and tiles are mixed fairly. The layout works perfectly, and it's nice how you don't have to stay in the middle of the map and get trapped. 8/10 ​ Doodads & Scenery: Decoration is fine in here. Trees and a few barren trademarked doodads are spread throughout the map, with few doodads in the arena portion. Their aren't much structure like things in here, besides Mathog's and the Hall of Champions area which are done half heartedly. The red haze around the map adds to the flavor. 7/10 ​ Bugs & Consistency: No bugs spotted. Everything works smoothly. 5/5 ​ Suggestions These suggestions are optional and some of these may be repeats. > Add more doodads around the map > Tone up the ability creativity ​ VERDICT The only way a map can be approved is if it follows the map submission rules. All rules but one rule is followed. Fix it and I will vote for approval. > Please add in your description if the map is open source and anyone may have it, unprotected but need permission, or protected.​ NOTES Overall the map is an organized arena with likeable gameplay but does not have much uniqueness. Feel free to contact me about this review, or to say hi! (+1) Reputation point for uploading and your hard work. Ratings 0-14 1 STAR 15-24 2 STARS 25-35 3 STARS 36-46 4 STARS 47-50 5 STARS Map reviewed 11 August 2014, version 1.1 [TD]

 

[Inferno11114]

Thanks for the review! I'll take all the criticisms you noted into consideration to try to polish this map. I'll be releasing a new version soon(ish), and I'll put effort into each of the areas you noted need some improvement before I release the next version. Once I have that done, I'll add into the description that the map is closed source and protected, for now anyway. My apologies for missing that.

 

[Deleted member 238589]

Good job

 

[Inferno11114]

Been a long time, but finally got around to updating this. Map description now states that the map is protected.
I have lots of plans for 1.3, like improving the terrain and scenery, new game modes, and introducing a few new Heroes. These Heroes will be more unique and less like standard Warcraft 3 Heroes, but will still definitely have some of those qualities. A few of them will be secret Heroes, so you'll have to think a bit and play a few times to find out how to unlock them.

It's hard sometimes to stay motivated and interested enough to keep updating a map, but if even one person (other than myself) enjoys playing this map, that will definitely give me some more motivation to work on it! So, if anyone's looking for a map to play by themselves or with 1-2 pals, try this out!

P.S. just a little challenge to anyone who tries the map out. Try beating the game on Hardcore in 45 minutes or less. Good Luck!

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

I remember this review from over half a year ago. Hmm, I should have stressed that the lack of creativity in the heroes was something to be deemed as unfavorable. Nevertheless I enjoyed it despite its simplicity.

Anyway, the "state whether the map is protected or not" rule isn't a rule anymore. Just thought it would be best to know!

 

[Inferno11114]

I'll definitely work on changing up the custom heroes a bit. I've had this map laying around for quite a while so that's why some of the custom heroes are rather simple. I think it's also a challenge to change up their abilities without affecting the balance of the map too much, and also keeping them in balance with the standard Warcraft heroes. Definitely taking your advice into consideration SCN so thank you!

...Just realized that SCN is also my first, middle, and last initial. Weird. lol

 

[Deleted member 238589]

I enjoyed this map. Glad you're still working on it

 

[Inferno11114]

Thanks Imperator. Definitely been putting some hours into it lately, just got done redesigning one of the custom heroes!

 

[Holliance]

Hello I played your map 1 weeks ago.
It was interesting! Thank you for your efforts.
And I want to write my opinion and feeling about this map.
Please feel free, just reading is ok!

I select Tauren, Pit lord. Each hero has stun.
And it works good.
Even last boss, he was stunned long time.
because...
I buy bash, active attack speed, and tier2 attack items four.
It was really good. I had two strong Heroes!
I love stun and power characters.
Thanks!

 

[Inferno11114]

Thanks Holliance! Definitely, having two heroes with stun can make it easier especially on bosses. At one point I over-nerfed the stun and CC effects to where they felt useless against bosses, so I buffed them up. Obviously I don't want someone to just perma stun everything all day, but it should be a viable strategy to try to keep them stunned for long periods. Heroes (like the Alchemist) that can achieve massive attack speeds are pretty crazy when you give them Bash and stack damage items. This makes them insanely good particularly against single targets. Also, if someone is gonna spend time, money, and mana on locking a boss down (with stun, hex, entangle, etc) I want to reward them with, well, actually locking the boss down for a while. I could go on, but basically I'll just have to look at the stun/disable lengths and fine tune them.

Also, on the note of "bash, active attack speed, 4 tier 2 attack items" this is indeed a very powerful and simple strategy that I've used as well, but can leave your Hero not very durable, and you could die very quickly under certain circumstances (units with thorns damage, burst damage like spells, getting focused, etc). Higher risk, higher reward. Obviously you can add life steal onto this to alleviate the survivability issue a bit as long as you're attacking.

TL;DR I'll be looking at fine-tuning crowd control and stun durations, Thanks again for playing, look forward to 1.3 for redesigned custom heroes and all kinds of good stuff! There will be more difficult ways to challenge yourself! So even if you were playing on Hardcore and felt it wasn't too hard, there will be more in store for you.

 

[buyingcoats]

I tried it with 2 players but we kept getting teleported back before we finished a round.

 

[Inferno11114]

I had someone else tell me the same thing, I will take a look and see what's going on. If you have any information you can give me that would be awesome. Like if it started happening at round 1 or started occurring later on, what heroes/items you used, etc. Also if it's a recurring issue every time you try to play that would be good to know too. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Inferno11114]

Finally updated this map! This took a lot of work, especially updating all of the Hero tooltips... Anyway, there will probably be a balance patch out sometime before I release 1.5. I really do need to do some testing in multiplayer. It's been a long time since I've played with someone else. Need to make sure there aren't any bugs. If anybody wants someone to play with, message me on here!

 

[deepstrasz]

It's an interesting concept but players must think the choice of their heroes. Heroes that only attack one target at a time be it through normal attack or spells are pretty much weak.

-requirements for recipes should be written as a list...
-where are/what happens to the barracks after you buy them?
-creeps can be attacked with spells from the camp plus infernals can be thrown at them without problems. Moreover, enemy summoners can create minions near the fountains
-feedback is not an orb effect?
-21 level max? But there were still almost 20 rounds left
-some heroes have ultimates with 45secs cooldown and others with 180secs (Dreadlord and Mountain King for instnace)
-the last battle is won without all of the infernals being destroyed
-there are no units immune to magic other than mechanical that are partially immune

If it wasn't for the fact that killing a percentage of the enemies in a round gets the heroes back to the safe zone, the game couldn't be won as there would be too many units against them. This is mostly for the first 10 waves.

 

[Inferno11114]

There seems to be a bug when there is more than one player where you teleport back to the fountains after killing all the units. It's not supposed to be like that. You are supposed to be required to kill them all before going back to the fountains/shops. It works fine in single player, but I have nobody to test multiplayer with... I would be glad to test this with you or anyone else to see whats going on. Onto your other points:

-Good idea with listing recipe requirements as a list. I will get to work on that.

-I don't think Feedback counts as an orb effect, but I will check it out.

-For the barracks, if you are talking about the Pocket Camp items, you have to complete the tier 3 item recipe for the Pocket Camp, then you can change it into one of three different types by buying the items in Mick's shop. I couldn't think of any other simple way to allow players to switch between the three, so that's those items are there. They don't do anything unless you have the actual Pocket Camp item in your inventory (which basically allows your Hero to summon Pocket Factory-type units).

-Max level used to be 25. I changed it so that you can't just max out all your skills and have to decide a bit on how you want to level your skills. Again I need to test with another actual human being, but in Double Hero mode for Single Player, I tend to reach max level around Round 44. I wanted players to reach max level before they finish the game so they can actually use their Heroes at max power for a little while.
- In many Warcraft custom maps, and even the standard game, Heroes have differing cooldown times for ultimates. For example, In the standard game, the Paladin's Ressurrection has a 240 second cooldown, while the Keeper of the Grove's Tranquility is a mere 60 seconds. One is obviously more powerful than the other, and thus the cooldowns are different. Having different cooldowns for skills is just another way to balance out the Heroes or give them a different "feel". You mentioned the Dreadlord's Inferno, so I'll explain the reasoning behind that. When the Infernal is summoned, it deals AoE damage and stuns. Since the cooldown is only 45 seconds rather than 180, the Dreadlord can take advantage of that AoE damage and stun much more often. The downside is that he has to resummon the Infernal more often and thus use more mana. It's just another way to differentiate him a bit, instead of it being another "summon x for 180 seconds, cooldown 180 seconds" type ultimate.

-That issue with the final round should be resolved if I figure out what bug is causing the issue I mentioned above in multiplayer.

-I didn't want magic immune units because then spellcasters would be completely useless and probably couldn't make it past certain waves. Most units that were magic immune do have Hero spell resistance at least though. Spell immune units could make a return.

-I'm not sure which Heroes you are talking about in regards to single target, but the Blademaster and Alchemist (very heavily single target based Heroes) are among the most broken in the game. Although they are receving nerfs in 1.4b. You just need the right item build. Items in this game are almost as important as the Hero you select.


Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it! You can try single player mode, preferably Double Hero mode since the games is balanced around two heroes being used, and i guarantee you will find the game at least a bit more enjoyable...You'll actually have to kill all the enemies before teleporting to the fountains, which should resolve some of the issues you had with the game. I'll try to find someone to test this with me so I can fix it ASAP. Thanks again for replying.


EDIT: Map updated to 1.4b. Mostly balance changes, bug fixes, and reworks of certain abilities. For the time being, the map is Single Player only, due to the crippling bugs in multiplayer mentioned in previous posts. I have a friend that is going to test the map with me in a couple days, so it should all be fixed relatively soon, and multiplayer will be back!

Also you were right deepstrasz, Feedback is an orb effect and the tooltip for Amulet of the Conjurer now mentions that. Never knew that. Thanks!

 

[deepstrasz]

-For the barracks, if you are talking about the Pocket Camp items, you have to complete the tier 3 item recipe for the Pocket Camp, then you can change it into one of three different types by buying the items in Mick's shop. I couldn't think of any other simple way to allow players to switch between the three, so that's those items are there. They don't do anything unless you have the actual Pocket Camp item in your inventory (which basically allows your Hero to summon Pocket Factory-type units).

There should be some info about it either in the item's description or in the quest log.

- In many Warcraft custom maps, and even the standard game, Heroes have differing cooldown times for ultimates. For example, In the standard game, the Paladin's Ressurrection has a 240 second cooldown, while the Keeper of the Grove's Tranquility is a mere 60 seconds. One is obviously more powerful than the other, and thus the cooldowns are different. Having different cooldowns for skills is just another way to balance out the Heroes or give them a different "feel". You mentioned the Dreadlord's Inferno, so I'll explain the reasoning behind that. When the Infernal is summoned, it deals AoE damage and stuns. Since the cooldown is only 45 seconds rather than 180, the Dreadlord can take advantage of that AoE damage and stun much more often. The downside is that he has to resummon the Infernal more often and thus use more mana. It's just another way to differentiate him a bit, instead of it being another "summon x for 180 seconds, cooldown 180 seconds" type ultimate.

I understand that but I think Drealord+Infernal>Mountain King+Avatar. That last ability has a bigger cooldown.

-That issue with the final round should be resolved if I figure out what bug is causing the issue I mentioned above in multiplayer.

Well, it shouldn't be that hard. Try making some triggers with the number of heroes on the map/in a region. If there are two heroes there should be more monsters and the number of monsters to be killed should be bigger in order for the heroes to get back to the safe zone. And/or try to put the condition of how many of the enemy units are left in the arena. If there are still creatures there, the heroes don't get teleported. You think of something, you're the map maker!

Also you were right deepstrasz, Feedback is an orb effect and the tooltip for Amulet of the Conjurer now mentions that. Never knew that. Thanks!

Actually the guys from DotA were right. It is there that I first saw it, I guess.

 

[Inferno11114]

There should be some info about it either in the item's description or in the quest log.

The info for changing the Pocket Camp type is listed on both the actual item, and on the little "Switch Pocket Camp" items. I can make it more clear though.

I understand that but I think Drealord+Infernal>Mountain King+Avatar. That last ability has a bigger cooldown.

Fair enough on the Dreadlord/Inferno thing, I will likely nerf the damage of the impact and maybe nerf the Infernal, or just revert it back to the standard 180 second cooldown.

Well, it shouldn't be that hard. Try making some triggers with the number of heroes on the map/in a region. If there are two heroes there should be more monsters and the number of monsters to be killed should be bigger in order for the heroes to get back to the safe zone. And/or try to put the condition of how many of the enemy units are left in the arena. If there are still creatures there, the heroes don't get teleported. You think of something, you're the map maker!

You are right, it isn't that hard, I just literally haven't been able to test it with another player in years! But I took a look at the triggers and may have found the problem. Those conditions that you mentioned are already in the triggers pretty much exactly how you said it, but it seems like it was double spawning waves in two player, but only counting the first wave of units, hence why you were getting ported out early. This would also explain why you were so high leveled early on.
I haven't tried adding more units depending on the number of players, but it could definitely be added in. As of right now though, the monsters do receive health/damage/attack speed/movement speed boosts when there are more players. Another minor detail is that as it is right now, if you're playing single player, you get ALL the gold for yourself, rather than splitting it between 1-2 other players, making your hero pretty decked out in items. And that's a good reason to add more monsters per player; then everybody gets more gold and decked out in items, but then I would have to rebalance the entire game. I'll have to do it little steps at a time.

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

[Alireza Evil]

Not bad You just need a bit encouragement keep on the good job !!

 

[Inferno11114]

Haha thanks Alireza!

Map updated to 1.4c. A couple bug fixes and the rest are minor changes, mostly to items. Tested with two players and the game functioned properly all the way through. Unfortunately I forgot to test if there are any issues when a player leaves or dies. If anyone finds that they can't continue when one of their teammates dies/leaves, let me know! Either way I'll be able to test it again soon.
Next update I plan to do is to give every player gold, regardless of who gets the kill, a la sunken city (probably other maps too). This would require tweaking the gold bounty of monsters to keep the game balanced, or else everyone would have more gold than they'd know what to do with.

 

[r.ace613]

Cool man!

 

[Chaosium]

Yo, I found a minor typo in Damius Noblesteed's description during the hero selection, in the tooltip the blue text starts with "amius Noblesteed", one D is missing ^^

The game is pretty neat, I like the terrain and general setting, it looks very Warcraft-y, which is cool !

 

[jupiterjiro]

Sun Mage Phoenix skill is bugged, allows you to summon multiple Phoenixes. Made the game a breeze.

 

[Inferno11114]

Fixed the Phoenix bug and re-uploaded the map. Thanks for the heads up.

Chaosium I will make note of that and fix it for the next version!

 

[Heinvers]

Bump! @Inferno11114 you know, since you're using this skin, I should be listed in the Credits as well. Or you haven't updated the list yet?

 

[Inferno11114]

Heinvers, you are now included in the credits. That should have been in there a long time ago. Thanks for catching that and thanks for the great skin!

 

[Sirmarkis29]

So amazing map ! can you expand this map to 4 players? plz??
5/5 rating keep up man

 

[Inferno11114]

Thank you Sirmarkis. I don't plan on increasing the number of players, but I won't rule it out either.

 

[clanpwrg]

All is working until i try to put space key for teleport in Arena for wave 1
Space doesnt teleport me!! Space just "teleport" my screen to hero altars!

Mayb you can add a "mob" where we can click for teleport?

Thank you

 

[Inferno11114]

"Space" as in space bar? You need to press the Escape key to teleport. Let me know if there's any problems with that. I could add a button to the upgrade shops that teleports you as well if need be. The reason your screen moves to the altars when pressing space is because that's where the player start locations are.

 

[Krash1992]

Really awesome map, but I tried it with a friend and whenever we got to wave 20 and slightly beyond, the game crashed. Once at around wave 24, the other at wave 20.

 

[Inthebag]

Tried it myself too, surely improved from the previous version, but there's more chances in an error in this version, always at the waves where hydras start spawning

 

[Inferno11114]

Really awesome map, but I tried it with a friend and whenever we got to wave 20 and slightly beyond, the game crashed. Once at around wave 24, the other at wave 20.

Tried it myself too, surely improved from the previous version, but there's more chances in an error in this version, always at the waves where hydras start spawning

I have noticed an increase in crashes as well lately. Sorry guys wish I knew what was causing it. Thanks for the feedback though and I'm glad some people out there are enjoying it. I will keep working to polish this map and get it running as smoothly as possible, and will definitely look into the specifics you guys mentioned.

Small update coming soon to hopefully address some of these issues.

 

[Swan]

Playing this map today, its pretty good. I like the heroes, they are simple but seem well made and have interesting designs. Had a bug where the round didn't end, it seemed to be caused by mindcontrolling the last unit alive. I'll upload the replay later if I still have it.

Edit: Happened with the wraiths on Mindweaver too.

 

[Inferno11114]

Playing this map today, its pretty good. I like the heroes, they are simple but seem well made and have interesting designs. Had a bug where the round didn't end, it seemed to be caused by mindcontrolling the last unit alive. I'll upload the replay later if I still have it.

Edit: Happened with the wraiths on Mindweaver too.

I have seen the bugs you are talking about in the past. Thought they were taken care of completely, but I will take a look at them and try to recreate the problem and fix it. Thanks Swan.

 

[MrAsD]

i enjoyed the map but i think more than 100%(IICR its 120%) cleave its insanely OP i like cleave but that do true dmge and destroy every mob in a few hits my suggestion its lower the amount of cleave i played with a support and the golem and win in hardcore without problems. But the mode its ok the problem its the hero with insanely amount of cleave

 

[Inferno11114]

i enjoyed the map but i think more than 100%(IICR its 120%) cleave its insanely OP i like cleave but that do true dmge and destroy every mob in a few hits my suggestion its lower the amount of cleave i played with a support and the golem and win in hardcore without problems. But the mode its ok the problem its the hero with insanely amount of cleave

Level 6 cleave is 105%, which may indeed still be too strong. I will take a look at the numbers and likely lower them slightly for the next patch, which should be out very soon, just working on one more bug.

 

[PhucTH]

Can you make the map with more playable slot?
Aslo, when duel, we can't use summon, making it a little unfair

 

[nhs325]

So the warlock code won't work, you might want to fix it.

 

[Inferno11114]

I will look into that and re-upload. Probably a typo in the password hint.

EDIT: seems to work just fine. Only things I can think of would be make sure not to leave out the dash in the front, and don't include the quotation marks. I can update the in-game tip to make that more clear. And if you've already picked your hero (or both heroes if playing by yourself) then the secret heroes just won't appear, even if you type in the correct password.

 

[koaibangem]

Hi,
This map cant play war 1.24?

 

[alexander.bedulin]

Escape does nothing, can't start playing.

 

[This is my Hammer]

I am having a massive problem with the game on LAN, I literally cannot host it, it says the map file is too large. Otherwise I'd rate this game 5 stars, it is very well made.