Idea: Reputation -> Post Ratings

[StoPCampinGn00b]

So, I want to propose an idea that could replace reputation. Blasphemy, right? My precious gems!
Well, it's an idea. I'm not sure if most people on Hive have even thought about it, but here it goes. You're welcome to jump in with an open mind!

What are post ratings?

Post ratings is the system that's meant to be the upgrade from reputation. The XenForo devs intended for likes to be the new reputation as they created vBulletin, but now ratings became known as the better choice. Post Ratings - taking likes to the next level Disregard the positive / negative bar. We're not going to use any e-peen anything.

Examples of ones that can work for Hive:

- Like

- Informative (good in WEHZ and other support forums)

- Funny (good in the off-topic forums)

- This (the agree rating / good point)

- Creative (good in artistic works or creative ideas)
[ ] - For the Hive! (a rating to give for doing helpful deeds contributing to the Hive. Maybe Archian or someone can design one)

- Award / Winner (see below under reward rep)

And we could even have some temporary ones or special ones. i.e. For the Horde, For the Alliance. Arghhh (for pirate day), Moose,
​

Less spam comments, more interaction

One / few word posts such as "nice" or "good model" would be fewer, so more constructive comments would be put in the spotlight.
How many times have you seen something nice, funny, creative, helpful, etc, but didn't comment? It happens all the time because we don't feel like posting on every single thread we view.

And unlike rep, the ratings are publicly visible on the post. It's good that it shows so people that see that can think: "Ah, so this is a thing the community deems as creative" or "people really appreciate this kind of post, I should make more myself"​

What about reward rep?

Ah, it's a good feeling to get that sweet sweet 40 rep along with a medal. Never experienced it :^)
I think it's fair to say that having a unique rating mods can give called Award or Winner. If you don't want to settle on one Award rating, we can even make it like rep - 30 20 10 contest points. This is not to replace the medals, just the reward rep which is just a chunk of rep. It's good since it makes contest wins easy to keep track of.​

Concerns?

The only negative I see with this is that it wouldn't feel nice for people who really want to keep their reputation. However, the reputation can easily be replaced with likes. So you're not really losing your amount, it's just a change in 'currency' if you will. Unspendable currency, that is.

It actually doesn't lower posting. Most forums that I've seen make the transition got boosted activity. You still need to post to subscribe, post to give feedback, and post to make a sincere compliment. Which is good, of course.

What about my gems?! The gems stay. Pretty sure that the system would work with it. 400 rep is some sort of gem. 400 rep points = 400 rating points. Easy.

When Hive added the profile and VMs feature, you would have seen some people complaining and worrying that "Hive would turn into Facebook." Now, it's a feature people take for granted. It'll take time for some people to get used to. Yes, social media uses similar things such (likes and shares, but they aren't ratings). However, Reddit and other successful forum-types have a rating feature and they work well for them.​

Conclusion

So don't worry. It's not complicated, lol. It's just one click, and you can choose whatever rating you want. No restrictions or rules. Besides, reputation caused problems in the past from 'spread' to 'rep-whoring' to 'neg rep' to contest complications. The post rating system is more simple than our current rep distribution system and guidelines, and may be even a bit more fun and fresh for the forum.

Just having posts and the occasional reputation is old and repetitive, nothing fresh. The idea is to boost the times in showing people appreciate your work or activity, and to boost interaction in a way that's nicer than rep.​

Thoughts? If you agree, disagree, or you're on the fence, please post.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Promotes politically correct atmosphere, which promotes self censorship. That's a way to have me leave.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Promotes politically correct atmosphere, which promotes self censorship. That's a way to have me leave.

Um what? Wrong thread?

I'm not a fan of PC either, but I fail to see how this is even close to real world political correctness. It's just post ratings, not activism for proper LGBT categorization and such. There's not even any mention of censorship or categorizing people. Isn't it even the opposite of censorship, since ratings are more public?

Honestly, the forums that I know that use this are usually more centrist and right wing. But really, this has nothing to do with politics.

 

[Ralle]

As far as I know XenForo just contains likes, not something like what you suggested.

I think removing rep is a no-go. We can restyle it and make it cooler, but removing it is far too dangerous.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Existing rep won't be removed for sure. Just relabeled, that's all. I addressed your concerns in the concerns section of the OP.

But yeah, I know this idea might seem a bit too much of a change. Especially for the nostalgic factor in some. But I'd really appreciate a reconsider. I've edited the post a little, too.

 

[Cherrymage]

To me, I think we should keep rep (my glorious gems!) and also introduce post ratings too. Keep them separate.
Post ratings are a great idea, it can promote quality posts and submissions while also letting newcomers get a hang of the Hive. This idea could work well with rep. However, please don't remove rep. We all love rep.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

This and like are easy ways for agreeing on one side without providing actual comments and observing how your side has more support, encouraging butting in for inconstructive comments, band wagon effect. It also promotes halo and stigma effects.
For me this would be third community to add upvotes and have people commit to caveman era behavior. You would just be repeating past mistakes.

We instinctively want to belong to majority with our values and norms to have better changes to survive and reproduce, in this we form a shared picture over what is right or wrong. But how can you have the rights to decide what is right or wrong? (Generally people draw the line at deciding over one's life.) We are all hyper naive and unaware of 99% of factors associated with any topic.

Community is already too restrictive. One acc per IP is beyond ridiculous to me. And I can't debate for nazism even if I would provide arguments, it being a banned topic. Most likely this is because the staff are afraid of being called nazis to let such talks exist, after all labels are the fundamental weapon of the left.

You should all look up the original definition of forum.

 

[The_Silent]

As long as I'll be able to disable the visibility of both (jk)

Honestly though, reputation has very little effect on what I do; so either way it'll probably have very little effect on me. When that is said, lets not get a facebook-like like system, the system should promote helpfulness/usefulness and user interaction, not masturbatory self-promotion.

 

[Chaosy]

Feels like the recent gender bullshit.
Apparently there are 69 different genders now.

I feel like this is the same, just over complicating.

 

[The_Silent]

Maybe we should stay on topic.

 

[Chaosy]

It is on topic.

I don't see the point of having 5 different types of points.
Keep it simple.

 

[IcemanBo]

So the idea is to have not "rep = rep", but devide reputation into categories, that "rep = likes + funny + creative + etc" ?
+
make the reached category points visible at one's post, like "Funny +3" at a post for example?

should there then also be something like a counter for each category at one's profile?, like how many likes one got, funny etc

Can I give "Funny" and "Creative", both to a single post for example?

I'm not sure though how it's related to less spam, but more interaction.

Personaly I don't need to visualisize the category of why someone appreciated my content like "funny, informative" etc, and it's enough to know that someone appreciated it. But maybe it also would not bother me too much, I don't know.
For making rep, or rep-categories visible at one's post, I don't really have a opinion at the moment.

And I can't debate for nazism even if I would provide arguments

It depends on how you discuss it I would say; it's not the topic per se that is now allowed to be discussed, but it may be some conclusion that follows by the argumentation which is used, when it's pure violance, hate racism, etc. that is spreaded.

 

[Eagle XI]

Not any meaningfuller than the current rep gems, i mean it perhaps would only differ to the %? minority of frequenters to this site that put any meaning in such things as those are in fundament nothing but '50 colors of Like'.

Also cant pass without stating that i dont like the 'Like-enforced' system of Fb and such, must everyone like everything ? there should also be dislike, hate it, exterminatus etc.

 

[Cherrymage]

Reputation can show a person's general popularity in the forums (repping someone when he's amusing); while post ratings actually indicates most of their contributions to the site (rating him as good when he done good).

 

[TriggerHappy]

Eh, I'm not really for it. I like the "like" button but reputation is basically the same thing.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Promotes politically correct atmosphere, which promotes self censorship. That's a way to have me leave.

Feels like the recent gender bullshit.
Apparently there are 69 different genders now.

I feel like this is the same, just over complicating.

Cool.

I was also testing to see how willing people in willing to change with the fair reasoning in front of them. I expected nostalgia for reputation / broke don't fix it mentality to be the driving factor for an opposition, but it's actually anti-PC politics from Jondrean and Chaosy. Heh, never would have guessed. LGBT and gender categorization is such a far stretch from Hive post ratings, but I guess it just shows how political 2016 and 2017 was for the western world that it affects nearly everything more than ever - when it shouldn't.

I'll reiterate that "Political Correctness" or "Far-left" politics has nothing to do with the idea of post ratings. And I'm not sure if you'll listen to that statement or even consider it. I also pointed out that the forums I use with ratings tend to be more centrist or conservative than Hive to show that this isn't a PC thing at all.

But yeah, I got the response that was needed to decide the fate of this idea. Unless any of you change your minds.
Thanks for the replies.

 

[Ralle]

I don't see the point of having 5 different types of points.
Keep it simple.

I agree with that.

Community is already too restrictive. One acc per IP is beyond ridiculous to me.

That's not how it works. It's one account per person.

I want to keep things simple. I can imagine the next step to be displaying the number of reps a certain post has received. That is actually the default behavior of this reputation system, but the design of it was retarded, so I disabled it.

 

[Footman16]

Seeing how this system works on Brigand's Haven and Diplomunion is interesting and it does have its appeal.

I'm kind of 50/50 on it, on the one hand it is a breath of fresh air into the Hive and would probably liven up the community a bit, however, it does have flaws of its own like people who would just spam every single one of someone's posts with the same type of 'like' such as happens with some people in Diplomunion and Brigand's Haven where they have a dislike option. I am verging on the side of I wouldn't want to see it on the Hive. I do think some changes could be made to make the Hive more interesting I don't, however, have any idea what those changes could be.

As for jondrean's and Choasy's points, I literally don't see the relevence of actual Human psychology, sociology and politics with a rating system on a Warcraft 3 Modding site and what that has to do with freedom of speech, Nazi-ism, LGBTQI, genders or supposed 'Left-Wing' politics.

 

[fladdermasken]

I literally don't see the relevence of actual Human psychology, sociology and politics with a rating system on a Warcraft 3 Modding site and what that has to do with freedom of speech, Nazi-ism, LGBTQI, genders or supposed 'Left-Wing' politics.

It's okay. They don't either.

 

[A Void]

i vote for keeping the current reputation, it's nostalgic and i love those gems...

 

[Rheiko]

Oh my dear gems, oh what I have earned up to now, oh what Ralle gave me. Keep the reputation! lmao.

anyway, not sure whether post ratings will bring good things or not but it sure sounds interesting to me.

 

[Ralle]

I have been pondering re-adding negative reputation. What I have thought about is to display the rep a specific post has received and next to it, the negative rep it has received. If the negative rep is high enough for said post, it will be concealed (but still visible with a click). It would help to let the community moderate itself.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

It would help to let the community moderate itself.

Humans make bad moderators.

 

[fladdermasken]

I have been pondering re-adding negative reputation. What I have thought about is to display the rep a specific post has received and next to it, the negative rep it has received. If the negative rep is high enough for said post, it will be concealed (but still visible with a click). It would help to let the community moderate itself.

We can do this with warnings too without mixing reputation into it. There's an option to show the warning publicly to everybody who can see the content.

Humans make bad moderators.

Yeah, but the staff consists of humans too. So we're fucked either way.

The idea of self-moderation is already in play and has been working like a clock. The difference between what we're doing now and what we did in the past is that we don't moderate before stuff happens.

e.g. the old policy was to lock down any thread that had the potential to get heated. Now we only lock it down as a last resort, after we have tried for long enough to set it on the right course without any results.

We also have way more options to do this with this new platform. We can e.g. ban people from specific threads, and display warnings publicly. We can (like before) edit posts, split the content into multiple threads (in case of derailing), delete posts (usually only done if they contain nothing but shit), etc.

Moderators should only get involved if they absolutely need to, not just because they can.

 

[deepstrasz]

What I have thought about is to display the rep a specific post has received and next to it, the negative rep it has received. If the negative rep is high enough for said post, it will be concealed (but still visible with a click). It would help to let the community moderate itself.

Blizzard forums do something similar (they gray/darken the post if it gets over 10 dislikes). Thing is, people might be inclined out of curiosity to press the show message/post and read to find out why it was covered in the first place.

 

[Ralle]

people might be inclined out of curiosity to press the show message/post and read to find out why it was covered in the first place.

For sure, but they will also know that a majority of the community frowns upon it. That is where the mechanism works. People will be outed by other people.

I do find it weird that the 10 dislikes is a hard limit. What if it has 1000 likes and 10 dislikes? I would much rather make it so it would be the percentage of dislikes when there is more than 10 likes/dislikes.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Yeah, but the staff consists of humans too. So we're fucked either way.

The idea of self-moderation is already in play and has been working like a clock. The difference between what we're doing now and what we did in the past is that we don't moderate before stuff happens.

e.g. the old policy was to lock down any thread that had the potential to get heated. Now we only lock it down as a last resort, after we have tried for long enough to set it on the right course without any results.

We also have way more options to do this with this new platform. We can e.g. ban people from specific threads, and display warnings publicly. We can (like before) edit posts, split the content into multiple threads (in case of derailing), delete posts (usually only done if they contain nothing but shit), etc.

Moderators should only get involved if they absolutely need to, not just because they can.

By existing self-moderation, are you referring to reviewers, users with approval rights? My concern is about forum, not assets. I think asset sections should be strictly moderated, in that the discussion should be kept on the asset in question. But people reviewing others' opinions, lol... How ineligible do you have to be to consider that. Here, my proof in self-moderation leading to censorship of minority: reddit: the front page of the internet, and my previous post is still a thing.

 

[deepstrasz]

I do find it weird that the 10 dislikes is a hard limit. What if it has 1000 likes and 10 dislikes? I would much rather make it so it would be the percentage of dislikes when there is more than 10 likes/dislikes.

Well, Blizzard forums have a like-dislike balance system. If somebody dislikes a post it gets -1. If someone likes that post it gets +1 which means a total of 0=>normal post as if no one liked it or disliked it (you can't know unless you've watched the post be disliked and liked. However, if the post gets 5 dislikes and I for instance will give it a like, the -4 will be visible on that post instead of the -5.

 

[KILLCIDE]

@jondrean you're going to want to reread what fladdermasken said. He never said anything that would make you think he was referring to assets.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

@jondrean you're going to want to reread what fladdermasken said. He never said anything that would make you think he was referring to assets.

I don't know what he's referring to with self-moderation then. It doesn't come clear from the post and he hasn't corrected my guess. And you didn't tell it either. Are you referring to having a particular off-topic moderator then?

 

[Ralle]

Not resource moderation but messages/comments.

 

[KILLCIDE]

@jondrean he means that Moderators let the community try to handle it on their own before jumping in. As he mentioned, we only get involved if we have to, not just because we can.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Okay yes, I didn't think of that as self-moderation. It's pretty obvious now that I read it, lol.

Anyway, I'm not at a position to rate your opinion. Or someone else's for that matter. It would be a feature used by people who would not consider its censoring effects, or want to push their agenda. And I fail to see the context where it would be appropriate to be used on forums generally, why not just use report if a post violates site rules. I said generally as I can come up with special cases, like help zone.

 

[Ralle]

You wouldn't rate an opinion. You would approve of something good or disapprove of something bad. I'm thinking that posts by a certain someone in the PSA would quickly be concealed as I believe many in the community frowned upon his/her behavior.

 

[Freddyk]

I have been pondering re-adding negative reputation. What I have thought about is to display the rep a specific post has received and next to it, the negative rep it has received. If the negative rep is high enough for said post, it will be concealed (but still visible with a click). It would help to let the community moderate itself.

I strongly dislikes the idea of adding neg-rep and masking posts with negative score:
Negative reputation will just bring a new cause of conflict and hate between people, I fear adding it will just add more un-constructive and un-kind comments on the forums.
Masking some posts can make the discussion difficult to understand, and as others said it might even draw attention to unwanted posts because people will just click to see why this post was masked.

On the contrary, I think showing rep on each post is a good idea, and highlighting posts wîth high rep would be good (for example, in a help topic it would emphasize the post with the answer).

 

[Ralle]

Negative reputation will just bring a new cause of conflict and hate between people, I fear adding it will just add more un-constructive and un-kind comments on the forums.

On the contrary, I think showing rep on each post is a good idea, and highlighting posts wîth high rep would be good (for example, in a help topic it would emphasize the post with the answer).

I might tend to agree. You rock.

 

[Celaquil]

As long as I stay in office, rep will stay.

Fuck likes, fuck post favouritism, hail the ever-growing ego-booster beneath my avatar.

 

[KILLCIDE]

As long as I stay in office, rep will stay.

Hell yeah! Now hurry up and either scale the rep or bring back rep power! I want my GOLD gem.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I completely agree with the idea of seeing the Reputation that a post has garnered, and all of that stuff, for all the reasons aforementioned. Not so sure about the neg-rep stuff, though I'm not averse to it I suppose.

I think I can see what jondrean & others are going on about, even if I don't fully understand it. The contention lies in the belief that in places like Reddit (featuring systems as the ones described here, up/down-votes, community-driven moderation, etc), a certain mind-set & culture & community is fostered... One which "romotes politically correct atmosphere, which promotes self censorship."

Not sure I agree, but I see kinda where he's coming from.