[Hive's Battlefield] - A community Map

[Mr.Goblin]

oh... epic <3

 

[Septimus]

the amount of armor and life regeneration deduction was too high.

 

[redscores]

Hero Name: redscores
Hero Title: Blood Archlord
Hero Model: Archimonde (A bit more reddish with phoenix effects on the hands)
Missile Model: None, Melee Attack

Story: Will soon be added.

Status:

Strength 14
Agility 12
Intelligence 24 (Main Attribute)

Abilities:

1. Spell
Name: Terrorize
Description: redscores summons a ward full of dark spirits, the ward starts to howl and crumble every few seconds, causing nearby enemy and allied (redscores is excluded here) units to flee in panic for a few seconds. The Ward has 50 Lifepoints.

Area of Effect: 400
Duration (Fear): 1/ 1,5/ 2/ 2,5 Seconds
Interval (Fear): Every 5 Seconds.
Duration (Ward): 40 Seconds

2. Spell
Name: Shock Drain
Description: redscores drains the life out of a victims heart, filling it with eternal darkness, the strength of the victim will vanish slowly, with every drain, and his motivation will vanquished with every part of the life drained out of the victim.

1. Effect: Drains 2 Damage and 25 Movement Speed from the Target.
2. Effect: Adds 2 Damage and 25 Movement Speed to redscores.
Limitation: 12/16/22/26 Damage and 100 Movement Speed.
Duration (Buff): 20 Seconds

If the Limitation is reached, the spell does nothing until the 20 seconds of the buff runs out.

3. Spell
Name: Claustrophobia
Description: redscores creates a matrix full of darkness around the victim, smashing it and causing immense fear, afterwards the victim has a bigger affinity against damage for a certain time.

Damage (Matrix): 20% of the Victims Lifepoints
Modificator (Damage): 1,25x
Duration (Debuff): 15 Seconds.

4. Spell (Ultimate)
Name: Master of Torture
Description: redscores presence alone shatters the hearts of his enemies, if a unit comes closer as a certain range to him, it will suffer from pain and maybe even insanity! (PASSIVE (Aura))

Area of Effect (Aura): 375/425/475
Damage (Aura): 3% of life per second.
Effect: Each second is there a 5% Chance that every unit in aura gets insane for 3 seconds.

Insane-Debuff: The Unit attacks 25% faster, but the owner of it can no longer control it. Units which are insane attack even allied units.

 

[MortAr]

Hero name: Mortar
Hero title: Chain Gunner
Model: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...808/?prev=search=rifleman%20elite&d=list&r=20
Missle model: Normal one, but when it hits a target, theres a blood appearing onto the targets' chest.

Attributes:
-Agility: 21 (+2.0/main)
-Intelligence: 16 (+1.5/optional)
-Strenght: 13 (+1.5/optional)

SPELLS

1. Granade Lauch - Throws a granade full of sharpnells into the air, which will land on the target point after 2 seconds. Upon landing, the granade explodes dealing 50/70/90/110 damage, also it will release 6 sharpnells into random directions. When a sharpnell comes within an enemy unit, it will hit it, dealing additional 20 damage and slowing it movement speed by 30%.

2. Turret Protector - Creates a turret at the target location. The turret can shoot a maximum of 4/5/6/7 times against an enemy unit. Turret deals 22-25/25-28/31-34/34-38 damage.

3. Headshot - A shot to the head that deals up to 20/30/40/50 additional damage with a short stun duration.

4. Plasma Field - A field made of pure energy is created. The field is energizied by an special modificated machine in its middle point. When an enemy unit enters this field, it will be slowed by 40/50/60% and take 5/10/15 damage per second. If an enemy leaves the field, it will be silenced for 1/2/3 seconds and it will have be burned by 8% of its maximum. The burner mana combusts, dealing damage to the target. The field can be deactivated by destroying the machine in the middle. Lasts 7 seconds.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Hmmmm, I still need to adjust my spells a little bit to remove the requirement of the extra Tank model

 

[Xarwin]

For everyone: please take care that we won't be using any custom model/skins YET.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

For everyone: please take care that we won't be using any custom model/skins YET.

IMO new models will simply take up more space in the map. Space that you need for images (because if possible tree system and window system and pick system), code, icons, doodads (which could be used for terrain) and effects. Just an opinion.

EDIT EDIT EDIT
Skill trees will not be used, so I removed them.

As for heroes, I go for my tree suggestion:
Hero name: Anachron - or if he doens't like it, some other important guy, like PurplePoot, BUT NO RALLE.
Type: Int, pure support

1 - Light flash:
On ally:
- Heals a friendly unit for X HP and buffs it with an additional HP regeneration bonus. It also boosts the unit's movement speed. Enemy units nearby become flashed due the light beacon and have an Y chance of missing attacks.
On Enemy:
- Damages an enemy unit for X HP and buffs it with a degeneration HP bonus. It also reduces the unit's movement speed. Allied heroes of the caster have a chance to cause critical strike every time they attack this unit.

2 - Shield Of might:
On ally:
- Gives the allied unit a shield that absorbs X damage (or absorbs X% of incoming damage) and buffs the armor of the allied unit by Y. The shield has H hp. When the shield dies it explodes causing all enemy units in the area to have Z% reduced attack power for J seconds.
On enemy:
- Gives the enemy unit a light shield that amplifies all incoming damage by X%. The enemy unit can only take Y% extra damage before the shield wears off (it can take up to H hp of the shield). It also buffs the unit with -Z armor. When the shield wears off, it explodes giving allied units Z% to attack power for J seconds.

3 - Aura of Resilience: Allied units and heroes have a chance to block an attack every time they are attacked. If they do block an attack, the damage of the attack is split over enemy units nearby. (cliché well known spell ). It also gives bonus HP to the caster and X% of that bonus HP to allied units.

4 - Mark of Light (Chanelling): Creates a David Star within a circle on the ground (or other geometric shape you may like that involves circles). All allied units within the star are healed vy X hp every second while all enemy units are damaged by X hp. If an enemy unit leaves the circle of light it becomes stunned by a lighting of light for Y seconds.

This build was going to belong to one of the heroes of my personal project. The spells (except for the ultimate) are not hard and I had some one them already implemented on my map (was making the ulti but never finished it). I decided to change the spells by inspiring myseld on Anachrons current Avatar icon and on the project. Since it is not a "badass kill everyone build for a hero" Anachron may not like it xD

EDIT EDIT EDIT
Done !

 

[MortAr]

Most of the updates in this version were only to fix the current terrain and some rough-looking flaws.
Here is a small-list of the things that were fixed, changed or/and added.

-Made some changes in the woods between the lanes.
-Fixed all flaws and rough looking places on the waterfall
-Bottom lane is almost done.
-More fixed flaws over the middle lanes (both sides)
-Added some more details as requested
-New type of bushes (2)
-Some paths into the woods were modified

This is a temporarily update over the terrain since we are planning to make a big one this friday.
Still, I'm waiting for the new models for the stones, bushes, some flowers, and,
the new trees which will be used for the city in the right corner.

Screenshots will be taken after the next update, so stay tuned.
Link to the album for the screenshots here.

 

[Anachron]

Sorry for no progress yesterday, was busy in real life.
Have the full weekend for myself, so this will hopefully bring the terrain a big step forward.

 

[HailFireer]

I signed up for doodad modeling. If you need something tell me OK.

And you can always upload picture to the social group.

 

[Xarwin]

That's true.
Well after all, we're making progress.
I just finished Midnighters his hero which I will post.
Please note that it is still a WIP and balances need to be made.

Hero Model: Lord Garithos
Custom Model: Missile (by DonDustin)
Hero Name: Midnighters
Hero Title: Enigmatical Warlock

Based on: Wisdom (intelligence)
Type Attack: Ranged

Wisdom Effect: /

Presence of Storminess
Midnighters temporarily gains an orb of darkness which sends out
crepuscular destructive waves at enemies.
Effect: Fires waves of darkness at nearby enemy units, dealing damage.
Each orb deals 20/40/60/80 damage. Fires out each 1 second.
Lasts 4 seconds.
Cooldown: 8 seconds.

Void Hand
Summons a soul catching hand which temporarily slows heroes caught by it.
Whenever a hero is straight in the middle of the hand it will get struck.
Effect: Slows heroes near to the hand for 10/15/20/25%. Whenever a hero stands
in the middlepoint of the casted position it will get stunned for 2 seconds.
Cooldown: 6 seconds.

Dark Cognizance
Midnighters is known with spells out of the darkness. Midnighters will summon a
strategical gate at his feet which aims for the weakest enemy among him, firing out
a galactic beam towards this enemy that deals damage to any enemy in the line.
Effect: Summons a beam which deals 40/80/120/140 damage to any enemy caught by it.
Cooldown: 12 seconds.

Overshadow
In the depths of mysterious dark pits Midnighters found a powerful ability to
split the shadow from his human body. Doing so brings his shadow to life
which has the same abilities as he do.
Effect: Summons temporarily a shadow of Midnighters which rides side to side,
doing the same moves as Midnighters pleases.
The shadow lasts for 8/10/12 seconds.
Cooldown: 180 seconds.

-- Edit --
Managed to finish a good WIP around our Death System. I made up a youtube video so people understand how it works.
It is a very basic video but hell, you'll know how it works .

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Xarwin, I don't understand your midnighters hero. His second spell looks like a modified rip-off from demon hand in Soulstealer (HoN) and I can't find the overall tactic. I can't understand how you can combine your spells in order to be more useful.

So, the Orb is meant to be an AOE spell (because it attacks many units right?), the hand is a supportive slowing spell and your 3rd skill will (that will in most cases attack nearby creeps) only seems to be useful if you are making a solo fight in 1v1 which is horrible for your AOE spell (because it will be way less effective). Your ultimate is cool (LOVE the idea) but your spells won't benefit him that much (making your hand 2x will only slow the enemy 1 time. It really doesn't add any bonus).

The way I see it, the hero is a mix of lane pushers, single killer and supporter, but he is not good at any of these specific categories.

This is the way I see your hero. PLease comment.
Btw, the death system is awesome - just like the death system in Age of Myths.

 

[Anachron]

Xarwin, about the death system, please make it so that died units do not have collision.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Xarwin, about the death system, please make it so that died units do not have collision.

Agreed. Perhaps you should prevent players from selecting them as well?

 

[Anachron]

Yes, players should not able to select those units.

 

[krisserz]

And the corpose position could be pinged periodically.

 

[Midnighters]

Xarwin, I don't understand your midnighters hero. His second spell looks like a modified rip-off from demon hand in Soulstealer (HoN) and I can't find the overall tactic. I can't understand how you can combine your spells in order to be more useful.

So, the Orb is meant to be an AOE spell (because it attacks many units right?), the hand is a supportive slowing spell and your 3rd skill will (that will in most cases attack nearby creeps) only seems to be useful if you are making a solo fight in 1v1 which is horrible for your AOE spell (because it will be way less effective). Your ultimate is cool (LOVE the idea) but your spells won't benefit him that much (making your hand 2x will only slow the enemy 1 time. It really doesn't add any bonus).

The way I see it, the hero is a mix of lane pushers, single killer and supporter, but he is not good at any of these specific categories.

I asked him to create it this way and he did. It portrays me, and if you don't like it, you won't have to use it.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

I asked him to create it this way and he did. It portrays me, and if you don't like it, you won't have to use it.

I am just saying that in games like Dota, HoN, LoL (and so on) heroes have a clear function / objective. In Dota (per example) it is clear that the Assassin is a carry, that zeus is a spellcaster nuker. In HoN it is clear that armadon is a born tanker and that Shaman is a babysitter/healer.
In THW community project nothing is clear and heroes don't seem to have a function. Everyone makes heroes that belong to all areas and yet they are all poor and mediocre at them.
People like heroes when they have roles, and so do teams. If you make a hero that doesn't fit a strategy no one will play it. Even worst, you are ruining the game with senseless heroes and stealing the place to new heroes that could be better.

It is not a matter of liking/not liking. It is a matter of making sense and your "portrait" (or whatever you want to call it) makes none. Even redscores hero makes more sense than that. It is clear that you never made a decent hero concept in your life, there is no strategy and no line of use.

I honestly hope that this is the first and last hero of this type I see. Having more heroes like this will only make the PvP experience weaker and therefore will make the project fail / die (Like sands of time, it died because it had a weak PvP).

Please, for all the people who want to make heroes, THINK of a combined tactic. Decide if your hero is a supporter, tanker (we need those), nuker, carriers, single killer, disabler. Decide if it belongs to early, mid or late game.
Don't make heroes fit all roles in all stages because you will just be making a crap hero.
Function is the key.

With this said, your fate is now your own.

 

[Xarwin]

I will update the death system soon, it was still WIP like I said .

However Flame_Phoenix let's get this clear:
- I am not ripping off any spell, it is my own imagination and it is possible that spells have the same effect. How do YOU expect me to know what exists and what not? You can't expect that all spells in the battlefield are different.
- So actually you say basing heroes only on tankers, support, noob carriers, healers,... is a good idea? That we shouldn't add one simple so named "nuker" or carrier? Why not? EACH AoS game has one or more and the players LIKE it. Unbalanced you say? Well then LETS balance, ever thought of that?
You named Zeus for an example, well "Zeus" is a nuker but it really depends on the player and his team if he will own with it or not. And another note: stealing is not possible with the system that TRD made.
- Role of this hero: support the creeps and keep heroes backwards. Sounds logical, no?

It is clear that you never made a decent hero concept in your life, there is no strategy and no line of use.

Watch your words there dude. I know more about gaming then you ever will know.
Stop seeing things out of your own perspective and open your eyes.
This hero is a perfect combination for killing enemy heroes. A so named Anti-Hero.

You want an example of this hero?
Say it slows the enemy hero with Void Hand, casting Presence of Storminess meanwhile you can walk near him thanks to the effects of Void Hand, damaging it meanwhile and casting in the end Dark Cognizance to finish him off is a strong combination if used correctly (I even didn't mentioned to cast the ultimate). But guess what? This hero is ranged and Presence of Storminess won't reach that far so its a real challenge using this hero (low hp, its NOT a tank and will die faster).

Otherwise this hero can also push lanes with his spell Presence of Storminess.


I really don't see your point and I stay with the fact that you need to stop looking out of your own perspective and watch through the eyes of my team.
As you can see Midnighters likes it this way, he's a gamer online too. Why doesn't he complain about it? Because the hero is good and useful!

I prefer avoiding posts like this but you keep hammering with your own mind. Stop that.
I had a few people telling me you did, so I'm not the only one who sees this.
If you have anything else to complain about please talk to me in private.

You shouldn't judge things which you haven't used yet.

Thanks.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

How do YOU expect me to know what exists and what not? You can't expect that all spells in the battlefield are different.

Wermmm, since you are also a HoN player I assumed you knew the spell. My bad, sry

- So actually you say basing heroes only on tankers, support, noob carriers, healers,... is a good idea? That we shouldn't add one simple so named "nuker" or carrier? Why not? EACH AoS game has one or more and the players LIKE it. Unbalanced you say? Well then LETS balance, ever thought of that?

Hã? That is not what I said. We need to make this clear on msn, since posting it here will take 4ever.
Zeus is a nuker no matter the player. Let's not consider extreme cases of extreme noobs.
I didn't mention balance, steals nor anything. I just mention tactical purpose, which seems to be lacking.

- Role of this hero: support the creeps and keep heroes backwards. Sounds logical, no?

This is what I am talking. The role is so vague you can't even define it. Supporting the creeps and killing heroes is what ALL heroes do.
What is the role of this guy in a team? Supporter ? Disabler? Nuker? A mix of two? I don't think it's any because his 4 spells don't even combine.
You could use the "hand slow" with the "AOE orb" and kill an enemy team, but then his other 2 abilities make no sense in this logic. Get what I mean?

Watch your words there dude. I know more about gaming then you ever will know.

I am not here to discuss this. In fact, that was not directed to you, it was directed to moon guy. I had the feeling he made the hero and that you posted it. I got confused.

This hero is a perfect combination for killing enemy heroes. A so named Anti-Hero.

Yes, because wasting an AOE spell in 1 unit, slowing the target AND wasting a 3rd skill killing a creep is totally going to get you a kill... or not.
Since you don't seem to be familiar with all heroes of HoN I will give you a perfect example. HoN has a hero called the enginner. This hero has an AOE stun (compared to your slow), a turret (that is a copy of the hero) and an AOE ulti (compared to your orb). The enginner is supposed to be an agi carry. HOWEVER, the tactical line of this hero is so bad that S2Games (the company making the game) had to remake the hero about 5-6 times. This was not enough. In a desperate way to create a connection between the enginner's skills they decided to force a 3rd hero ability that would boost all other abilities. Currently, the enginner is one of the worst heroes in game, and few people play it because it has no tactical command line.
I hope you get the similarities. Engineer has a connection skill in order to aid his lack of tactical line, and still, gamers don't like him. Your moon hero doesn't even have an ability to help his tactical line.
You have my advice sound and clear and you are free to make your choices (which I respect).

As for my "hammering mind" or "closed views" I think you might me wrong. I am neither of both, I am simply stubborn xD
My idea was to discuss your hero. However moo showed up and then we entered a flame war. This is not what I intended. Keep in mind that my sole purpose is to let you know what I think it's right. The decisions will always be yours.
Now that my "mission" is done, I will leave the rest of the work for you to do.

You shouldn't judge things which you haven't used yet.

That is the funny thing. I've already used it.

Phew ... I really should stop making threads this long xD

 

[Mr.Goblin]

For the death system.. make the Wisp's mouvement speed at 599, no collision size..

because it might take for ever to resurrect your hero. If the wisp could go throw trees and cliffs would be much better. Although, you still want to reduce light of sight of the wisp too..

because you could easily see some enemy heroes, trying to gank someone while you are travelling in wisp form.

just saying..

 

[watermelon_1234]

For the death system.. make the Wisp's mouvement speed at 599

I think movement speed will be reduced based on how high the hero's level is.

Wait time is also included: your spirit is slowed for each level a hero gains. Distance takes an important note too.

 

[Xarwin]

@ Flame_Phoenix
I'm not in into a flame war and that's not my intention.

The hero still has a few flaws which I will work out tonight.


@ Mr.goblin
Yes I will add that and movement speed is based on the hero its level (resurrection time takes longer when higher level).

 

[HyperActive]

Movement speed has can be 522 max.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Movement speed has can be 522 max.

Ye, but you can simulate a higher velocity by making a function which helps moving it, using SetUnitX/Y.

 

[Anachron]

Or just use my missileengine and when the missile reaches the body begin rescurrention.
What about that? Then you can use any movespeed you want.

 

[HyperActive]

It can be done, but except for spells and specific cases, I don't think that coding an alternate move system should be done. Just a waste of function calls.

 

[The Reborn Devil]

Or just use my missileengine and when the missile reaches the body begin rescurrention.
What about that? Then you can use any movespeed you want.

Isn't he supposed to steer the wisp himself? If not then using your system is obviously what we must do.

 

[Xarwin]

I think it is more logical that you control your spirit.
Would be kinda weird seeing your spirit flying as an orb to your corpse uh ;P

 

[HailFireer]

Then it can be used for scouting and stuff. And if you put its sight to 0 how can it find its corpse even with ping...

 

[Viikuna]

I am just saying that in games like Dota, HoN, LoL (and so on) heroes have a clear function / objective. In Dota (per example) it is clear that the Assassin is a carry, that zeus is a spellcaster nuker. In HoN it is clear that armadon is a born tanker and that Shaman is a babysitter/healer.
In THW community project nothing is clear and heroes don't seem to have a function. Everyone makes heroes that belong to all areas and yet they are all poor and mediocre at them.
People like heroes when they have roles, and so do teams. If you make a hero that doesn't fit a strategy no one will play it. Even worst, you are ruining the game with senseless heroes and stealing the place to new heroes that could be better.

It is not a matter of liking/not liking. It is a matter of making sense and your "portrait" (or whatever you want to call it) makes none. Even redscores hero makes more sense than that. It is clear that you never made a decent hero concept in your life, there is no strategy and no line of use.

I honestly hope that this is the first and last hero of this type I see. Having more heroes like this will only make the PvP experience weaker and therefore will make the project fail / die (Like sands of time, it died because it had a weak PvP).

Please, for all the people who want to make heroes, THINK of a combined tactic. Decide if your hero is a supporter, tanker (we need those), nuker, carriers, single killer, disabler. Decide if it belongs to early, mid or late game.
Don't make heroes fit all roles in all stages because you will just be making a crap hero.
Function is the key.

With this said, your fate is now your own.

You are thinking of DotA again.

If you only make heroes that are supporters, tankers, nukers, carriers, single killers, disablers, you are doing it wrong. There are endless number of possibilities, and only your imagination is the limit. Your way does nothing but cuts out some options, some of which can be damn cool.


And not every hero has to have some specific role designed for them. Its better to leave some space for players to find out their favorite way to play the character.

Designing early, mid and late game heroes, is probably the worst thing you can possibly do.
Every hero should be useful all the time, simply because that way its more fun for the players. That is whats important, not your crappy DotA & HoN metagame bullshit you are trying to feed us here.


You all seem to think that hero designing is all about making some set of 4 abilities and selecting some stats numbers for making a hero to fill some lame role in some sorry ass strategy you have designed for your map, but it aint.

Designing heroes is so much more than just that.

Its the players who come up with those strategies. Its not your job and by doing it you just take away their chance to use imagination in order to find different ways to play the game and thus reduce the overall depth of your shit.




Hero designing is more about this shit right here. Its mostly just erwtenpellers art, but if you check that designing Oak Fall character thingy, you see that what character designing is really about trying to decribe and picture some idea.

His abilities, what he looks like, how strong or agile he is, are just the ways to describe the nature of the character itself.

If you have the character, you can always change little details, such as abilities, when developing the gameplay. The big picture, the nature of the character still remains unchanged.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

You are thinking of DotA again.

I actually gave example of HoN and I mentioned LoL iirc. I simply said "Dota" because it's a concept people know. I am not using it as a main reference and you should know that.

If you only make heroes that are supporters, tankers, nukers, carriers, single killers, disablers, you are doing it wrong. There are endless number of possibilities, and only your imagination is the limit. Your way does nothing but cuts out some options, some of which can be damn cool.

As long as they make sense it's OK for me. In Age of Myths (its NOTHING like Dota) the heroes usually had mixes of roles, but still there were all awesome and they all had a very defined function (support, DPS, heal, etc). I could go on and find more example but I think you got my point.

That is whats important, not your crappy DotA & HoN metagame bullshit you are trying to feed us here.

I am sorry for you Vikuna but people seem to like Metagame bullshit. It sells, and even Sands of Time has it. So, what's your suggestion? Just go and make random heroes?

Hero designing is more about this shit right here

yes, because Nemo and green spring trees would in deed make perfect heroes that everyone would like playing. In fact, why give units abilities at all? Just add some pretty models and you have your game... or maybe not.
You fail to understand that people like strategy, and that they will try to find it on the hero they play. If your hero has no defined strategy it will ruin the game. This is not an opinion it is a fact. It is even used in FPS games such as Team Fortress, they actually study this things and I could give you more examples of fails and bad decisions that made many people leave the game (including some of my friends).

 

[Xarwin]

Hive's Battlefield is now officially a hosted project on THW!
Thanks, Ralle!

Guys, I'll be making the needed posts and stuff tomorrow in the afternoon.
I don't have the time now so be ready!

-Xarwin

 

[Mr.Goblin]

Hive's Battlefield is now officially a hosted project on THW!
Thanks, Ralle!

Guys, I'll be making the needed posts and stuff tomorrow in the afternoon.
I don't have the time now so be ready!

-Xarwin

hum if you need icons for each section I could do them.

 

[N1ghthawk]

Death System
Its just dumb when a hero dies and disappears. To add a twist we’ll add a system which makes the hero fall upon battle right on the spot it got owned. In the meanwhile you’ll gain a spirit which can resurrect your hero by going near its body. You can compare it with the WoW death system.
Wait time is also included: your spirit is slowed for each level a hero gains. Distance takes an important note too.

I had the same idea for my AoS but decided agaisn't implementing it seeing as:

1. your just asking for campers
2. if you die near a tower or in the enemy base your screwed
___________________________________________

Map looks good overall. Looking forward to seeing some of those ideas get off the drawing board and of course the eventual creation of the map.

GL to ya mate

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Well of course you'll have the option of reviving in your base (I believe Xarwin had mentioned something about this before)

 

[calbert]

I have just registered so that I, and the hero representing myself can be in this project.

No, was just joking about that.

I have read through all 20 pages of comments just now.

I am very interested in this project and would like to contribute some ideas / suggestion to it. I could help with testing the map, and a bit of modeling, I could make those static stuff like weapon attachments, but am horrible at doing the textures for them.

From what I have read, I suppose decisions have been made on the inventory system and other basic things. I think they are good the way they are now.

About what items will be in this, I think it really depends on how the other things are going to work. Just an idea about them "showing up" when equiped, they could just be adding existing effects to the mount point, so you don't need new models.

You could stack different effects to make different looks, and that fact alone gives you a lot of different possibilities, and you don't have to worry about the animation not fitting the weapon as you did not change the weapon.

For items, they shouldn't be too complicated, just using the Dota ones as example (not that I liked them), they are too complicated, I suggest they should be simple.

For example say if you have 6 basic items and they can combine with any other item including same item, you then already have 27 items total, but that's a bit too much sonow the next thing you have to consider, if item A + item B will have the effect of item A + item B, would it be too simple and makes some combination stupid? Or if the combination should give an extra bonus besides the origional effects, which makes more sense, or should they turn into something totally different? Will such a huge number of items good for the map and are they really needed? If they are too simple they are boring, but they shouldn't be complicated also.

They are significant part of the game but shouldn't be too much. My own experience with dota was just creep, and buy items and creep and buy items until I got good enough ones then I go kill other people, which is like work and work is not fun.

About hero designs, as this is making heros that represent members here, I do not totally agree with the "hero" type thing, although it always works. It is not a bad thing to make heroes which seems to have no purpose nor type. It is just HARD to make good heros which are without specific purpose, and there's just too much failed examples.

There are a few options which can make them "gain" their purpose, one thing is to let the player choose what attribute they add to when they level up, but as of now I think the attribute parts are still wip, so I am not sure if this will work. If using this system, how to implement it? would it be too much for the player to choose which one of the 3 attribute they add points to, and would it be too annoying to have to click everytime you level?

Another thing is for the skills, they could have very high max levels but you can never get all of them, now that makes any hero gain their purpose depending on which skill they concentrate on, but it will be more work to be done on balancing skills this way.

And the death system, like werewolf said, would be good to have option to spawn back in town, but would that means you can respawn faster as you don't need to travel back or you need to wait longer as it takes time for your corpse to be somehow transferred back to town?

Another thing about being dead near enemy isn't a totally bad thing, if you can control your "soul" thing then you can control when you revive your hero. I think should make the "soul" invisible so the other team does not know if you are waiting for the right time to revive or still on the way. This opens up more options strategic wise.

Ah... this post is already getting rather long, I'll just leave it as is. Not very organized as I just put down what I was thinking without much thought(refers to how I put them down). You are welcome to make positive comments about this, or you could just say no then ignore it if you don't like them.

 

[Viikuna]

I am sorry for you Vikuna but people seem to like Metagame bullshit. It sells, and even Sands of Time has it. So, what's your suggestion? Just go and make random heroes?

First of all, my name is not Vikuna. Second: I know no game called Sands of Time.

And my point was that you are here explaining us how DotA works, and claiming that this is exactly how this stuff should be done. But thats not how it is.

yes, because Nemo and green spring trees would in deed make perfect heroes that everyone would like playing. In fact, why give units abilities at all? Just add some pretty models and you have your game... or maybe not.

Abilities are most important for the gameplay, but only small part of Hero designing. What you are doing here, is not really Hero designing.

You are thinking of abilities with numbers, when there is not even a game yet, and numbers actually mean nothing.

So I repeat: That stuff is of course mostly important for the game, but not for Hero designing.
Stuff with numbers just comes later in map creating process.

 

[Fussiler1]

Congratulations on your hosted project!

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

First of all, my name is not Vikuna.

Sir, yes Sir !!
Viikuna, got it.

And my point was that you are here explaining us how DotA works, and claiming that this is exactly how this stuff should be done. But thats not how it is.

For the last time, I talk about Dota because it is the only "link" I can have with you guys. But fine, if you want I will stop referencing Dota. Want me to reference another game you all know?

You are thinking of abilities with numbers,

Numbers ? In case you haven't seen, even my own suggestions don't have such things as numbers. I don't pay much attention to values because they can always be changed for balance purpose. Now, I really pay attention to the overall tactic of the hero. Tactics have nothing to do with numbers, they are instead related to "what is the purpose of your hero".
Ofc, if you don't like this, you can always go and create Chuk Norris hero, which will be able to play all roles, all stages and will also have a "Win game" ability button.
Like these numbers now ?

 

[krisserz]

Yay! Hosted project!

 

[HailFireer]

Phoenix and Viikuna plz stop endless arguing. We appreciate the ideas, but arguing about what other one said is pointless, especially if you don't know if they will be implemented or not.

Thank you.


~HailFireer

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

@HailFireer: You are probably right. Yet, I still think that Chuck Norris hero should be implemented... just for the people who don't like numbers...

 

[HailFireer]

I personally think it shouldn't since Chick is popular all over the net, nut just here.

If you want him make a map about this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WgT9gy4zQA

 

[Amargaard]

First I don't know what AOS means (Yeah, I'm Noob... But eveyone should understand this, even noobs!)... so can you please make "()" and tell us the full sentence just one place -the first time you use the AOS-word. Edit: I corrected the AoE-words to AOS... And well, I know what AoE means. Still don't know what AOS means!

What I think you are tryng to create (Please tell me i I'm wrong); This map is a Team versus team-batte, like DotA (Though I normally don't play DotA), but there's no evil and good sides with different heroes - Both sides are good and evil at the same time, but not allied and can choose the same heroes. The players on the two teams can choose 1 from very many heroes, all based on the users on HIVE, which means there will be thousands of heroes. The heroes will use models and icons looking like the users Avatars and their spells must be very different from the other heroes'... There comes units out of a Barracks which takes up a random weapon, and march for the enemy base. And there will be Items which is connected to the different heroes, and can be upgraded if some special items is gathered in the same inventory... (?)

Who's gonna make all those units, heroes, models, icons, spells etc... And wouldn't the map be extremely laggy with all these imported ressources, advanced triggers, new spells and all...? I think the idea is amazing, but is it possible??

Is it all users on the HIVE or only the famous ones? If you are going to make all, are we then going to post a model, icon and spell-ideas for you to use, or will you make it all yourself? Please let me know, either PM me or "upgrade" the first post with all the information, or simpy reply...

- Amargaard / ANM / Jalokin95

 

[redscores]

AoE is a simple shortening for Area of Effect, and at Flame Phoenix, don't disturb our work, you are selfish, and you are trying to force us in the fucking DOTA standards with your ideas, please, get out of here, it is useless to argue with you, DoTA has a miserable design, guess what? The Balance of DotA is based AT ALL on Items, which is a major design flaw.

And you tell us to take "hero concepts" like supporter and such? But you are just telling us to make monotone shit, try to be creative, but you can't, because you are a coder and you can't do anything different, that disqualifies you for any suggestions.

Actually, Xarwin is quite enraged about your behavior, so beware...

 

[Viikuna]

@ Flame_Phoenix

Yea, you havent posted any "hero ideas" like that, thats true. Its those other guys who do that stuff.

I was mostly complaining about those early mid, lategame hero and tank, suppoerter, damage dealer hero thingies in your case.



Of course some heroes are good at dealing damage, which makes them damage dealers. Some heroes are strong which makes them tanks.
But if you start to think other way around and only design tanks, damage dealers and supporters, your map will be very monotone, like redscores too said.

Theres some much more that heroes can do in battle that just those few things in those categories.




Anyways. The proper way is simply to think what would be awesome in your opinion. What would be fun and wicked and cool. Some stuff of course cant be done for wc3, but thats just something we have to live with.


And btw, getting longer revive times the longer game lasts sounds not cool in my years. You actually get punished from playing long games.
Getting punished from playing long games sounds no cool. You want people to play the map after all.


edit.

Who's gonna make all those units, heroes, models, icons, spells etc... And wouldn't the map be extremely laggy with all these imported ressources, advanced triggers, new spells and all...? I think the idea is amazing, but is it possible??

Not really.

Only real problem is the file size of the map and the amount of time its required to actually do all that stuff.
Thats why I would personally go with only small number of heroes, so their models, textures, icons spell effects and other thingies dont raise the file size too much.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

I personally think it shouldn't since Chick is popular all over the net, nut just here.

I was being sarcastic my friend

Who's gonna make all those units, heroes, models, icons, spells etc... And wouldn't the map be extremely laggy with all these imported ressources, advanced triggers, new spells and all...? I think the idea is amazing, but is it possible??

Afaik Xarwin ( the leader) decided to cut on imported models and resourced. Heroes will not have imported models so far and he will be focusing on imported models for effects and terrain. This way the map will be very small but very beautiful as well.
As for the code, Anachron was my disciple and I an trying to see his code and I always try to give him feedback. I can assure that, as long as the code is made by him, there will be no lag at all. Can't speak for other coders though.
In conclusion, have faith in the project, there are lots of people working to make it awesome.

AoE is a simple shortening for Area of Effect,

I believe he meant AOS and not AOE. You know that, stop being a dick to people who just want to help.

don't disturb our work, you are selfish, and you are trying to force us in the fucking DOTA standards with your ideas, please, get out of here, it is useless to argue with you, DoTA has a miserable design, guess what? The Balance of DotA is based AT ALL on Items, which is a major design flaw.

Perhaps I should make a drawing so you could understand what I mean?
I am not forcing you to anything. In fact, if you want to make shitty heroes and screw tactics, go ahead and be my guest I won't mind.
Also, I am not telling you to be monotone, I am telling you to be focused.
There are good heroes around here (reminds me of Anachron ice hero) problem is that they are too few and people simply refuse to learn from them (like you are doing now).
If you want to kick the ass of all heroes, than go ahead and implement Chuck Norris. Why play a game when you can instantly win it?
Finally, and for the last time, I talk about Dota because it is the only game you guys know and so I use it as a reference. If you want me to start using another game as reference you'll have to tell me, because I am not sure of the games you people know.
I don't mind talking about some FPS, another RTS or even an RPG and use it as arguments to what I believe is right. Thing is I don't do it because I want people to understand the meaning of my message.
I can start talking about Age of Myths or even Doomsday (also good AOS maps) but then you people wouldn't understand my message because you don't know those games (which is OK, no1 is forced to know everything).
I hope you understand it now ... Jesus, it's like the 3rd time I try to explain myself. Do you forgot I am actually against this being a copy of Dota !? Do you forgot my 1st post on this thread ? I think you did.

Actually, Xarwin is quite enraged about your behavior, so beware...

I am always willing to talk to him and I have him in great consideration. Thanks for the warning.

Of course some heroes are good at dealing damage, which makes them damage dealers. Some heroes are strong which makes them tanks.
But if you start to think other way around and only design tanks, damage dealers and supporters, your map will be very monotone, like redscores too said.

Yes, I totally agree Viikuna. I am not opposed to versatile heroes and I don't mind if a hero focuses on 2 roles (per example) as long as his tactic line is clear to understand. If you see my suggested hero you will understand how much I like versatility (and yes, my suggestion needs to be nerfed ).

And btw, getting longer revive times the longer game lasts sounds not cool in my years.

In your years !? Or do you mean ears ?
I don't know if I should agree or not. Long revive times were created to end with long games. If a game lasts like an hour people will want to finish the game, and long revive times help finishing the game.
But I also agree it sucks to wait a minute without doing anything. What would you suggest?

 

[Viikuna]

AoS stands for Aeon of Strife, which was a map in Starcraft.

Today its used here in wc3 modding as a name for this genre of maps where two or more factions fight against each other and players control their characters in their forces.
Common characteristic of an AoS map are lanes with spawned creeps, deffensive towers and player controlled heroes.

DotA is an AoS for example.


edit.

In your years !? Or do you mean ears ?
I don't know if I should agree or not. Long revive times were created to end with long games. If a game lasts like an hour people will want to finish the game, and long revive times help finishing the game.
But I also agree it sucks to wait a minute without doing anything. What would you suggest?

Yea, I meant ears. Dont know where that Y came from.

And you dont need long revive times in order to finish games.

Well, in DotA you need it, because you cant get so big army of creeps that reviving enemy heroes cant, even without their own creeps, to stop your army if they have enough levels, and so they can delay their defeat damnably long even if they cant really win anymore.

But it doesnt really mean that its the only way to do this stuff.

edit. Actually, there wont even be this problem if you design your stuff correctly. Most of AoS maps have somekind of way for your team to become stronger than enemy team.

For example, in Tides of Blood, when you kill enemy heroes you get blood, which is used to build unit spawning towers, which helps pushing.

Just be careful that you dont make any dramatic snowball effect, so that one kill in early game gives you so much exp and gold that it becomes much easier for you to kill enemy again, which makes it even easier to kill him again, which repeats few times, and soon those few early game kills determine the team that is gona win the game, when it should be the team that plays better in general during the whole damn game.

 

[calbert]

Hmm so maybe option of instant revive at base or move spirit back to corpse, each has advantage I think.

If you revive at base, there's no risk of getting attacked immediately after revive, and if you use spirit it saves you the time getting back to where your hero die.

Maybe make this into an option so you can use the "old" one or this one or both...

Anyway I think really making something is better than just talking about it.