[Hive's Battlefield] - A community Map

[Flame_Phoenix]

Viikuna has a nice point.
If I remember well someone had the ideas of relics (which would aid your army). Together with creep camps (that you can assault and take) and spawn upgrades, you may not need to make players wait a life time before they get revived.

However, I still think that people should wait some time for being killed. It's like a punishment you know?
But the amount of time should be small, no longer than 1 min.

 

[Midnighters]

Why must everyone compair maps to DotA, DotA is a failure.

 

[Viikuna]

Surely players should be punished from dying and revive time is good for that. It just dont make sense for it to be more punisheable in late game than early game.

Then it punishes you for playing long games and that kinda makes no sense. It just means that game is poorly designed if it requires something like that to make it possible to win the game.



And DotA is far from failure. Its maybe not perfectly designed and created and it may have many flaws in gameplay, but its fucking big.
Those guys have created all these leagues and competive matches and promoted one single map to be creater than the game it was created.

Thats no failure at all.

 

[calbert]

Knowing what dota fails in will increase the success chance of this one i suppose.

I think a bit of punishment after death could be in other forms instead of waiting time.

It could be gold loss, or rep loss, instead of waiting time.

dota revive wait time is one of its fail points

 

[Midnighters]

It is a failure because of the community, it is a community of assholes, and frankly, most of the heroes are not well balanced.

 

[Viikuna]

DotA doesnt have to be perfectly balanced, because of the commmunity.
All those guys know all the lil tricks and unlogical thingies, like which spells go through magic immunity, which over time effects leave dispellable buff, and which dont.

They know which heroes are good and which bad. The gameplay works not because map is balanced, but because the community is so fucking big that theres always enough players who know how you must play it.

Thats probably caused by DotA being so un-noob friendly. Everybody has to learn how to play it, before they can actually play it.

 

[Midnighters]

DotA, is a failure because it is unbalanced, a good map should be completely balanced, rather then having heroes, Axe for example, being over powered.

 

[calbert]

Yea dota is so imba... it's only playable after you know the exact sequence of buying items and which hero to use and which ones not to use...

It is rather fun to kill people who don't know what they are doing in dota, you will be well on a killing spree.

And this is getting off- topic i think.

So yea, the waiting to get revive is not a good idea, just go with the spirit thing so you got something to do before your hero is revived.

 

[Viikuna]

The gameplay works. Its possible to get 2 teams of 5 heroes, that are enough balanced for a good game.

Not all hero combinations work, of course. Some heroes are actually quite useless. Its just because of reasons I mentioned above, why the map still works and is damn popular.

But yea, I do agree that theres a damnably lot of very poor designing in DotA.



Of course we can argue whether the popularity is the meter of succes and failure. I personally dont see it that way.
There are lot of cool things that are unppular, and loads of popular thingies and maps that are not cool IMO.

 

[HailFireer]

What I think you are tryng to create (Please tell me i I'm wrong); This map is a Team versus team-batte, like DotA (Though I normally don't play DotA), but there's no evil and good sides with different heroes - Both sides are good and evil at the same time, but not allied and can choose the same heroes. The players on the two teams can choose 1 from very many heroes, all based on the users on HIVE, which means there will be thousands of heroes. The heroes will use models and icons looking like the users Avatars and their spells must be very different from the other heroes'... There comes units out of a Barracks which takes up a random weapon, and march for the enemy base. And there will be Items which is connected to the different heroes, and can be upgraded if some special items is gathered in the same inventory... (?)

Who's gonna make all those units, heroes, models, icons, spells etc... And wouldn't the map be extremely laggy with all these imported ressources, advanced triggers, new spells and all...? I think the idea is amazing, but is it possible??

Is it all users on the HIVE or only the famous ones? If you are going to make all, are we then going to post a model, icon and spell-ideas for you to use, or will you make it all yourself? Please let me know, either PM me or "upgrade" the first post with all the information, or simpy reply...

- Amargaard / ANM / Jalokin95

Ok, well you are right at some points point. Not every member will be implemented of course. We aim ti put in members that are active and have been here for some time now, basically that someone actually heard of them.
For the units, yes the pick up a random weapon, but there wont be many of them. I made the concept, so basically you have a melee and a range like in DotA, plus a mage which is relatively week, but he has a week buff/debuff spell he can use.
Imports are restricted so far. Only few doodads, weapon attachments for creeps and icons. Many users can be created with in game models. Like Misha for example, who is an archoon, he will be satyr with plasma effect attached to him. Plasma effect has only 2kb so that is very small and thus can be used.

Heroes are still in development, but if DotA managed to have a ton of original heroes, so can we, especially when we already have an idea what is who supposed to be. They don't have to be a replica of their avatar (look at me for example. How is my avi suppose to be?), but their name, or part of it should be in the main hero.
We still haven't decided on the forces, but I believe it would be best if each side could pick who ever they want.

Hope it clears up some stuff. We hope you will give us ideas and help us.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Can we all stop talking about Dota and focus on what REALLY MATTERS here ?
I don't care if Dota fails or doesn't fail, all I care is that we know the map and we can explore it's ideas (and the ideas of other maps) to make a better one.

Now back to business.

So, in order to conclude, there will be a timer what will make players wait if they die. This is what we know.
As for the death system, I suggested a crazy idea.

Since we may add caravans, I thought " why not add a caravan to get the corpse of the hero?".
The idea is similar to the death system, however it makes more sense (to me).
Actions:
1 - a hero gets critically wounded (dies)
2 - the base spawns a caravan of doctors (they can be invulnerable and unselectable like the body of the injured hero)
3 - the caravan travels to the body of the hero
4 - the caravan brings the hero back to base into an hospital
5 - hero survives and everyone is happy

Personally I like this idea. If we add the caravan concept suggested by Viikuna, this idea will actually fit the map a lot.

However, since the project is in an early state, I think the wisp idea should be implement first.
Any more suggestions?

 

[Amargaard]

I would be glad to help if I can... Though I have never helped with any other projects before :-/

- I still wants to know how many heroes there's going to be in the map... 20, 50, 100, more? You said you would make active users, well that's still a lot, making the game laggy I think. Then split the explanation up further; which of the active users would you make in the map, famous users like Misha, General Frank and Mr.Goblin? Or only the users that helped on this project? Or...?
- I think the items should have a connection to the available heroes or users avatars, an example of an item could be "HailFireer's Lighter" which is his User-Avatar-Picture with a bonus to attack and a Burn-enemy-withWater(?)-ability, or "Amargaard's Album" (Just wrote to get attention of myself) which is my profiles' album with random pictures giving some minor intelligence...
- What about calling Experience "HIVE Reputation" instead?
- I like the Doctor-caravan-idea too!

Amargaard / ANM / Jalokin95

 

[HailFireer]

OK guy chill, were not making a MMOAoS here, OK. I personally think this spirit thing will be OK if when spirit reaches hero it respawns at the base of hero. And if the spirit cant see anything. We don't need Chuck Norris, traveling doctor caravan. Come back down to earth guys before you post please.

Sorry if I'm being rude or anything, but... :/

 

[Viikuna]

Thats pretty nice idea. I like it.

Or maybe something like you need a corpse, so the healer, or witch doctor or whoever in your base could revive the hero. ( Or maybe some healing fountain, which has reviving waters or something.. )


It would be cooler if you could kill those rescue caravan guys, but it has some pretty big problems, though..

Youd have to protect that rescue team to get your ally back in life. Enemies could really delay your revival, by killing the caravan so team has to send another one.

And if they got your whole team you would be fucked


Anyways, you could make so that units wont auto attack caravan, ( you should not kill medics in war ) but heroes can choose to do it.
Breaking the rules of war like that should have some dowside, though, so its not always a viable option to try to delay enemys revival by killing those medics.



Anyways, somekind of medic caravan system might indeed be cool. It such needs some careful thinking, if you decide to make it possible to delay revival.

Its kinda lame to stay dead, unable to do anything, just because your allies suck and cant protect the caravan.



edit. There could be 2 options, actually.

Option 1. Wait for medic caravan to reach your body, return it to base and heal it.
( It would be cheaper, and faster way, but enemies could possibly prevent it if your allies cant protect you.

Option 2. Spirit leaves the body and travels to the base without visible form. In base some spirit healers construct a new body for you.
( Should have somekind of "cost" or downside, so you dont wanna pick that option if option 1 is possible for you. )

Tell me what you think.

 

[Midnighters]

I personally don't like the idea of the caravans, what if it is in the middle of a battlefield
and you cant get to them
they lay there the entire time
and dont do anything.

 

[Amargaard]

What about making a Invulerable Neutral Passive Hero using some Priest-like model that starts in the middle of the map and when the game starts, wanders around healing random units and heroes from both teams...

When someone dies he walks to the body and stuns all nearby enemies and then ressurect it...? People should then try die as close to him as possible xD

He should, of cause, also be based on some user... Just find a user with a Healing avatar... And by the way: Check my former post, there's ideas too!

- Amargaard / ANM / Margaard

 

[Viikuna]

Well, that would indeed suck, Midnighters yes. Thats why we are trying to think different methods here. To find some nice and smooth and cool and neat way to do this stuff.


Normal revive time aint bad, though. Its simple, you dont have to do anything. You can directly adjust the revival time, so it fits for the speed of the game. Not too long, not too short.


That spirit leaves the body thingy, option 2, could be lil bit like that. Constructing a new body would take X seconds. It should probably have some dowside, though, so people would usually wanna pick option 1.

Option 1 would be exist to add this "They are trying to save their wounded ally. Stop them!" and "Protect our wounded friend!! We need to get him safe " -thingy, which would be kinda interesting if done correctly.


Then again, simple revive time would probably be easier to work nicely and its pretty solid mechanic that doesnt really need any fixxing.

Its just that this caravan option 1 would also be pretty cool maybe..

Dont really know.

 

[HailFireer]

i like the Hive reputation thing thing since rep is so important around these parts.

And I like that users that don't get a hero get an item after them.


Also banned people can't be in here as a hero. If you have a hero and get banned while map is not released it will get removed. Is that OK?

 

[Midnighters]

I think banned people should be allowed, we need an epic MasterHaosis hero in teh map!

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

edit. There could be 2 options, actually.

Option 1. Wait for medic caravan to reach your body, return it to base and heal it.
( It would be cheaper, and faster way, but enemies could possibly prevent it if your allies cant protect you.

Option 2. Spirit leaves the body and travels to the base without visible form. In base some spirit healers construct a new body for you.
( Should have somekind of "cost" or downside, so you dont wanna pick that option if option 1 is possible for you. )

Love the idea. It's awesome.

I personally don't like the idea of the caravans, what if it is in the middle of a battlefield
and you cant get to them
they lay there the entire time
and dont do anything.

Then you go for option 2 and the spirit leaves your body to search a new one.

 

[Viikuna]

Actually, I think it should just be that Option 1 can be faster ( if allies protect you ) or slower ( if enemies kill medic caravan and your base has to send a new one ) depending on situation ( lols ).

Option 2 would have a static duration, so it would be a safe option. No need for any downside.


It adds a choise that can help your team or hurt it, if you choose to wait and then after some time leave the body with spirit when you realize that your allies cant save you. ( wasted time )


Strategical choise. Its good, dont you think?
Unknown revive duration that depends on what happens in the battlefield, against static X second duration.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Strategical choise. Its good, dont you think?
Unknown revive duration that depends on what happens in the battlefield, against static X second duration.

As long as the medic caravan offers a benefit for your team, I agree.
I think that the spirit thing should require some sort of payment ( like Y% of your gold?). This way you can always buy the hero back with the wisp, but you always pay a price.
And this is the exact type of thing I like in any game -> strategical choice. This is the type of thing I like seeing on maps and heroes.
I hope you now understand what I mean.

for this idea!

 

[Viikuna]

Yea, thought of gold penalty first, but it kinda sucks if you dont have gold.

Revival is about the lost time after all. This way it would be a unknow, possibly faster, possibly longer revive time depending on your enemies and allies against constant X sec time.

It would be quite simple choise to understand, I think.

Anyways, that rescue caravan was a damn nice idea. Nice brainstorming, I have to say.

edit.

% gold would work too. It just makes this option more viable if you have only little or no gold at all, because you loose much insignifficant amount of gold.

Keeping it only a question of revival time makes it nice and simple IMO.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Yea, thought of gold penalty first, but it kinda sucks if you dont have gold.

Which is why you pay X% of your total gold. This way you will always have gold.
However, you can add a minimum limit, like 30 gold (so if the player doesn't have the gold, he must wait 30 seconds to get it and buy the revive [assuming he wins 1gold/sec]).

 

[N1ghthawk]

So how much do I have to bribe you with to become immortalized?

Ofcourse blackmails always an option too

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

hmmmm, well first we have to deem your bribe worthy of the great moose, then we take an offering of flesh (a hand or an eye, something you have 2 of) before we can clear you for being put in the game.

At the moment I believe we're currently only doing team members and people the team members want to do - I believe allowing people to submit their own heroes will be added later.

 

[N1ghthawk]

then we take an offering of flesh (a hand or an eye, something you have 2 of) before we can clear you

Sounds just like my last job interview

 

[Mr.Goblin]

Here's the first 3 icons for the command buttons.

altough I need your ideas for the icons for these 3

-Attack
-Move
-Stop

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Hold icon looks a lot like the logo of the project.
The other two icons are quite nice.

For the move and attack icons I guess you can always go for the usual.
Attack -> a big sword or 2 sword clashing
Move -> use a fancy arrow

It is not original but people will get the main point. You can also use letters M and A, but I am not sure that will be a good idea.
Perhaps mixing the letters and the symbols could be nice.

 

[HailFireer]

Great Job Mr.Goblin. Keep up the good work.

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

For the attack icon I suggest that you could get inspired in this icon:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/icons-541/btnpowerstrike-154035/?prev=t=13&r=20&d=list&page=3

Hope it helps.

 

[Mr.Goblin]

For the attack icon I suggest that you could get inspired in this icon:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/icons-541/btnpowerstrike-154035/?prev=t=13&r=20&d=list&page=3

Hope it helps.

the main problem is that IT AS to work with the rest ..

hum.. I think I'll simply make a stylish sword and a stylish arrow. will see.

 

[HailFireer]

Why not just make a golden sword that is colored like thos arrows or that cross, and put it in a wooden frame, like others ones, with leaves behind, like other ones.

Just keep em similar to previous ones. Like a wooden frame with a sword on it.

 

[Xarwin]

Just make sure it suits with the terrain style.
I like your work Mr.Goblin, do whatever what you think that will suit and everything will be alright .

 

[HyperActive]

It's good to see this many people working on a aos type of map, with so much dedication. Though I don't like the idea of heroes representing your embodiments, I'm looking towards this project.

In the description thread you say there will be custom AI, does this mean hero AI?

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

In the description thread you say there will be custom AI, does this mean hero AI?

I think they mean "creep AI". Per example, the creeps that spawn from your barracks, as well as the neutral creeps will be intelligent.

 

[Joe-black-5]

Ex-AOS Mapper at your service
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps.php?u=Joe-black-5
need help in anything?

 

[HailFireer]

Best PM Xarwin. And also tell him what you can do. Like coding and stuff.

 

[Joe-black-5]

nah Ill just meet him in chat.
if he needs me in anything I am glad to help, else good luck to him

 

[HailFireer]

Good luck to us all

 

[Billy the Cat]

Good luck guys

 

[Deolrin]

Move could be just a wooden arrow pointing to the top left corner(just some 3D arrow, like the WC3 "move" arrow), attack could be the hilt and a beginning of the blade of a sword(like the WC3 "attack" sword, mhm). No?

 

[zadelim]

can i help in skin ? or some ideas for hero ?

 

[The World Is Flat]

Cool cool. i would make the best hero by far so...

 

[Flame_Phoenix]

Cool cool. i would make the best hero by far so...

If you can talk to a celebrity of the HIve, or to a member of the team I believe your ideas will be welcomed.

 

[The World Is Flat]

I was jk, but i liek the idea. go for it.

 

[bigapple90]

why hello thar

 

[Mr.Goblin]

hum the last command button icons will have to wait a bit more.. sorry got more busy this week-end than I hoped to.

Got a ''last minute'' party that got hosted + some long homework I didn't managed to finish quick (blank page stress), went to my brother's appartement, etc.

busy week, and busy week-end. Although it might be always like this for the folowing month because I'm at the end of the semester, but after that, I will have plenty of time.

(custom icons for models is much faster to make and easy to make, so no worries.)

just take me time for the command buttom cause I have to concept them without a simple theme.

 

[BlazeBird]

project looks very nice...^^
...maybe i can help with the terrain...?

 

[Xarwin]

@ bigapple90 hey there dude!

@ Mr.Goblin well that's pretty far away of the time limit we spoke of uh..

The terrain is mainly done so I am sorry, I have terrainers enough for now
However, your interest is welcome.