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2 Player Campaign

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by TheSpoon, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. tulee

    tulee

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    Hi Spoon, the difficulty for the chapter 4 insane was sort of challenging, though with two people microing + making 10 towers outside the undead base fast then luring them with mortars made quick work of the enemy. I only wanted to say that the difficulty for chapters where there is only meant to be 1 hero ( I.E the next two missions ) must be made far harder than ones that Blizzard meant to have two heroes, where blizzard already increased the difficulty somewhat more. So for the next two missions can they be challenging? I have found that Falric makes a huge difference in this game, to the point where in chapter 9 Malganis would have to be made lvl 35 haha. For sure though in the next chapter the liches should be 10 or over with stronger undead while Malganis should be lvl 20+ for the Culling of strathhome, the current strategy now is for one player to cull the villagers while the other defends the base/ distracts malganis ( currently one player can hit Malganis or his army and make them chase the unit around which renders Malganis useless in terms of killing villagers )
     
  2. indomitable1319

    indomitable1319

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    Spoon, I noticed in 9 that Arthas can take out the purple base on the right of his base in Blizzard's and yours. It made me LOL, my bro and I switched players, he slew the entire base within three minutes.
     
  3. tulee

    tulee

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    Yes, with Chaos damage and a fast attack Arthas can level bases easily. In the normal campaign the reason Arthas can't afford to do this in hard mode is because his base is hit too hard while he is gone and arthas is NEEDED to counter Mal'ganis. All Spoon needs to do is make sure arthas doesn't have much time to run off and solo bases, which basically means making the attacks on his base stronger ( Mal'ganis higher level and army stronger ).

    Also Spoon I understand that editing these maps for insane difficulty isn't easy. I do know though that besides the human campaign the only other campaign that will be hard to edit for insane difficulty will be the undead. The reason is because the night elf and orc campaigns pretty much have two heroes for ending missions, thus the difficulty won't need to be raised quite so much. Missions like frostmoure are hard to edit because the addition of 1 hero ( lvl ten max ) completely unbalances the game. Pretty much from lvl 3-4+ the addition of a second hero starts to majorly imbalance the game. So good luck with making the levels hard +P.
     
  4. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    @tulee
    The risk of having 2 players imbalancing the game, was something I had to accept at the start.
    There isn't much I can do about it. But I wanna stop thinking about balancing and fixes so much, that I'll never get the campaign done.
    I get your points entirely, but yeah the idea of this increased difficulty is to give you all a bit more of a challenge. (I'm just making it harder, not really thinking about balancing too much)

    @indomitable1319
    Yeah you can do that in the normal campaign XP

    MESSAGE TO ALL:
    Next weekend I'm going on a weekend holiday, - So no releases next weekend
    But the week after is the half term, so I'll catch-up and do both weekends worth.
    And I'll do the arrangements for a undead campaign also ^^

    I've not got much feedback regarding insane mode (except tulee)
    I was wondering if you guys could collect some? ^^?
     
  5. TheOverWhelming

    TheOverWhelming

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    Insane mode is good, its made it challenging but not to the point where you're all "Hold up gang, we have to hold still for my mana to regenerate so I can heal everything" AKA Boring wait time.
    Mission 2 seemed reallly easy for -insane, since Uther keeps everyone alive. Only difficulty was killing the Orc base (North) but even then that was easily done.
    I'd suggest adding a "Impossible" difficulty that increases all enemy HP by 50%, there's a system that does that. The difficulty then could legitimately seem impossible. Only con is that it'd be VERY Hard and people would get very annoyed when they lose it, even with the self-explanatory difficulty-name.

    Edit: Forgot to say, but in the first mission when you save Timmy he runs back.
     
  6. sagi5533

    sagi5533

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    I think insane mode isnt needed in chapters 7 8 cuz there is nothing intersting there to change ,on 7 u just pwn purple and take siege machines and destroy green base ,and on 8 u just walk on road and destroy ships and on the way kill few creeps and undead. anyways i'm just saying it cuz i cant wait for undead campigan :D ,it takes too long and i'm sure other peoples r waiting for undead campigan just like me :grin: I dont want to bother u or somthing just trying to be helpful in someway :p :thumbs_up:
     
  7. TheOverWhelming

    TheOverWhelming

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    That's why 7 needs one.
    8 needs to be harder. I don't even need to get units most the time. .
    It's bad to finish something halfway, he might as well as polish the first one then go to the second.
     
  8. Amauta

    Amauta

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    i found a bug in the chapter 4, the insane mode doesnot work well, iam not recive waves of gouls, the enemy camp is literalment deserted. i just found some alcolits xD...
    pd: thx for fixin the load code :D

    EDIT: Iam playing the chapter 5 too and is very fun in insane mode, but in the final wave the licht doesnot go whit the wave of the scourge, iam not see any lich in the entire siege.

    And some cinematic doesnot sincroniced the voice.

    Thx for all i agreed :D
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
  9. tulee

    tulee

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    Well Spoon My friend and I consider ourselves to be very competent at War3 Campaign, both of us having writen a guide together, and I would LOVE to add input as to how to make the missions harder on insane mode / balancing.

    QUOTE
    i found a bug in the chapter 4, the insane mode doesnot work well, iam not recive waves of gouls, the enemy camp is literalment deserted. i just found some alcolits xD...
    pd: thx for fixin the load code :D

    EDIT: Iam playing the chapter 5 too and is very fun in insane mode, but in the final wave the licht doesnot go whit the wave of the scourge, iam not see any lich in the entire siege.

    And some cinematic doesnot sincroniced the voice.

    Thx for all i agreed :D
    QUOTE

    Well if the AI is harder to configure for the fourth mission then rather than making the undead base stronger he can make the slaughter house, the one up near Kelthuzad, act like a part of green's base by sending down aboms. Easy balance + it would add the difficulty needed.

    As to chapter 5.. where are the liches indeed : (



    ALSO spoon, I understand that you would love to start the undead Campaign ASAP but please could you start it after the human maps are bug free? Or keep adding fixing it while you make the undead maps? I wouldn't mind waiting an extra week for the undead campaign if it meant insane mode worked for all the human maps o.o
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
  10. The Druidinator

    The Druidinator

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    Wow, this is just incredibly nice! I tested two of the maps out (first and last, actually) before my partner tired. I'll get to trying the rest later on, dealing with that as well as piling school work and my own project.
    The first map was quite fun, I like how you dealt with the issues and created a very smooth experience, as well as a slightly more challenging run (compared to the normal, solo version).
    Isolation though... that was awesome! I played as Falric (since I got jealous of watching him go as my partern's hero on Defense of Strahnbrad), and it was quite challenging (wasn't even on Insane), with Falric running around soloing mobs while I microed my defenders around. Different from normal defensive scenarios in Blizzard's works, since you actually didn't have any income except Falric's killing sprees, and dealing with the Lich without a hero was fun (though he killed all my three Riflemen with a series of Frost Novas... damn him!). All in all, it kept me constantly on my toes.
    As for the Arthas+Falric part, it was similar to the defense. Challenging, requiring a good deal of strategy and forethought (what skeleton to kill first, what priorities, can I afford wasting mana on a Shield Slam?). Dead Eye's fight was very, very well made (it impressed me quite much), with focus on the Sprites and awareness of that ice-punch he was calling down. We died though, low on health and mana after the previous Dead Eye fight as well as the giant skeleton battlefield (we died on the skeletons our first run, then tried it again with more items, better thinking and waiting 5 minutes to regenerate all health and mana before going in).
    What I don't like though, would be that we only could save twice (once for me, once for her), which we weren't aware of. Maybe this is standard online, but I'm not even close to an online-player. Overall, I loved every minute of it, and I can't believe there are still 3/4 of RoC left, as well as the whole expansion (and it will be interesting to see your sidekick heroes, perhaps Naisha for Maiev? Looking forward to it!)!
     
  11. Spiritless_One

    Spiritless_One

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    Very good job, re-created blizzards campeign and made it multi player.. u #%!ing rock man!! I<3U!(no homo).
    And the scoring at the end is just plain awsome. Way to go.
    +Rep
    11/5
     
  12. Dark_Angel2147

    Dark_Angel2147

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  13. tulee

    tulee

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    Spoon please consider my proposal to give input on how to make the level for insane mode, I can promise our suggestions will be simple and easy to add, rather than changing the AI which is sure to lead to possible bugs.
     
  14. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    WOAH, lots to reply to.
    Ok lets see.. (I'm not gonna bother with quotes)

    @TheOverWhelming
    Thxthx,
    Erm, yes mission 2 is still quite easy (its mission 2 after all!)
    I /could/ upgrade the AI, or maybe remove Uther for the mission,
    (Is this a good idea?)
    And yes, if people want it harder, just handicap themselves! (simple)
    Lastly.. I quickly look over Timmy. I think I know what you mean
    (But tbh I don't know why he does that, and I cba to fix it XD)

    @Sagi5533
    I'm gonna keep going with my difficulties XD
    Sorry bud, you'll have to wait!

    @Amauta
    Fixed the AI on chapter 4! (Yes it was broken)
    And /I think/ I've got the liches attacking for chapter 5.
    (Its so long, I've not bothered to properly test it XD)

    @tulee
    I think I've fixed the bugs now, I could make the abominations attack..
    But I think I've got it working now good.
    And yes I plan to make the human stuff COMPLETE, before I move on.
    (That is what a lot of people don't want me to do, but I'm glad some people like you understand I have to get what I've made fixed!)

    @The Druidinator
    Thx for the lovely wall of text <3 (I did read it xD)
    Erm, it isn't necessary to wait for your health to come back (that comes back automatically)
    And I think you can save more than twice if you don't overlap the saves, (I'm not entirely sure)

    @spiritless one&dark angel 2147
    Thx!

    Woah sorted XP
     
  15. The Druidinator

    The Druidinator

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    Alright, just played map 4 where you defend Hearthglen, and we found a major bug; we loaded the stuff from the earlier level, but when it began, both the Town Halls belongen to a passive player! That meant that we couldn't turn in gold, which in turn meant no income at all. We solved it by my partner giving me all resources she had, and I then built myself a Town Hall (with the damn long building time, of course) and then started harvesting, getting enough gold to give to my parter so she could get her own, and then barely hanging by at defending the town.
    This was a blend of frustration (in the begining, was impossible to get by) and later very amusing, with it as the ultimate handicap. We were miles behind the undead forces in terms of resources and troops, but finally made it through (even though I lost my army to the undead caravan and had to abuse Divine Shield to get Arthas to solo the Meat Wagons). I suggest you take a look at this, as it could easily ruin somebody's interest in it.

    Edit: On Isolation, we really couldn't save. The first save went fine, the second time the "SAVE" option was grayed out.
     
  16. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    Are you sure you got the most recent map? (That was a bug in an earlier map)

    As for the saves, I am not too sure.
    I think saves go best like this:
    - Player 1 saves
    - Player 2 saves
    (Then quit, and load player 2's save)
    Then maybe you can continue saving?

    EDIT: I think I've found where the problem was, I've fixed it ^^
     
  17. The Druidinator

    The Druidinator

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    Yes, I'm quite sure it's the most recent. I went on this very thread, clicked the "March of the Scourge" link in the map list you have posted, and downloaded it from the download button.

    As for the saving, you are suggesting both players saving, then quiting the game, loading the save, and then you have more save opportunities? (with the rinse and repeat method).

    Edit: After posting this I noticed your edit. Happy to be of help!
     
  18. barowei

    barowei

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    Firstly, notice that, each player can save only ONE time per game (yeah, I'm sure about it). That means, if u need more saves you have to load after second save to reset number of available saves.

    And let's go to the true reason of writing post here: I think, that scenario 7 SHOULDN'T have shared techtree and upgrades. That's because gold harvested is full there, you told that there are 2 bases, and now it will be my argument:3
     
  19. tulee

    tulee

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    Hey Spoon I wanted to know, you said on that holiday of yours you would do the remaining chapters insane modes + preparations for undead. I was wondering if you could post Falric's hero information ( spells ) as part of the preparation +P
     
  20. indomitable1319

    indomitable1319

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    Wow, loads of comments on Insane. Well, you can't start H1 alone anymore! I've tried it. Oh, TheSpoon, is it's alright with you, I opened Isolation on WE. I just wanted to see the triggers you have and how you made it like that. Thanks.