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2 Player Campaign

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by TheSpoon, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. Biggrouse

    Biggrouse

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    i personally think falric should be in the undead campaign, too.. it would fit a lot more than tichondrious or something else running around with arthas. but player 2 should get kel'thuzad after he's revived
     
  2. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    I wasn't planning to do that : O
    That checklist is for my chapter 10 map that I'm making

    I'm.. not really sure exactly what you mean.
    But I'm just having each main hero character have a secondary hero which will follow them through the whole plotline. That can be used when there is no secondary character.

    Exactly what I plan to do
     
  3. Rozbojnik2

    Rozbojnik2

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    i have a Request...
    did you can take the version of Your's map?
    i newer know when you fixed bugs in the maps and give that on internet...

    and, when is the Undead campaing is begginig?
    (undead capitan Felric it's must Be!:D)
     
  4. Light0ne.

    Light0ne.

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    Just checking to make sure you haven't already given up on these campaigns. I'm really looking forward to playing them all, but I haven't seen you make any changes in a couple of weeks now.
     
  5. tulee

    tulee

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    SPOON, if the 10th chapter is taking time PLEASE finish the nine you have made already, like adding a insane mode and stuff first. My friends and I are crazy about your game but we don't want to start till it is all finished, please
     
  6. SasuhKun

    SasuhKun

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    Falric would just be disposed after Kel Thuzad is revived? D:
     
  7. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    I don't really understand what you want :eek:
    But I will start on the Undead Campaign shortly!

    Sorry I've been working hard on this last chapter, I just finished it
    As you can imagine making a map completely from scratch is a bit more difficult XP

    I just finished the 10th chapter, I'm gonna review the past chapters and add the difficulty, fix the save/load bugs and perhaps I could other features.
    So we should have the whole set completed shortly!

    Maybe, I'll make sure to include him where I can!
     
  8. Rafinius

    Rafinius

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    Very nice. Played them all today with a friend of mine. Found some bugs. Last few maps save/load codes didn't work (i.e. 6to7 7to8 8to9). Also the press ESC for next at the last map didn't do anything (whats that next page anyway?). How is the progress with UD maps going? Keep up the good work.
    EDIT: In map 7 gold and lumber was normal. Is that intended? Also you should make upgrades cheaper in the other maps but not 50% (more like around 75% of normal cost). Most important thing that has to get cheaper is the Keep and Castle upgrades, because those you always need and they normally don't need to be done 2 times to advance (or in this case with half the resources). Don't make upgrades shared as now it is nice that friends tend to specialize in to 2 paths to supplement each other.
    EDITEDIT: I'm really curious how Falric will look as undead. Please please please don't make him a darktinted captain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  9. SasuhKun

    SasuhKun

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    Nah, I prefer as it is.

    Edit: (Or normal play. But you add one extra enemy base and it turns 2v2.)
     
  10. barowei

    barowei

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    I don't think we need to share upgrades, now we have always 2 heroes, and cooperation gives us great advantage. Let's take chapter 6th for example: we made it very fast and without any problems (poor Mal'Ganis, shield bash + holy bolt...). You can always make it a bit cheaper (75% of actually cost, same with Keep and Castle upgrades), but I don't think you really have to do it.

    About bugs, I don't have nothing new to say, we got problems with save, once we got a code but it didn't work in next chapter (and no, I'm sure I didn't make any mistakes, the hell, I got screen and checked it out several times...). I got one game crush in chapter 10th when captain was falling from the bridge, I didn't dc from bn, but later I didn't have this problem, I don't know what should I think about it... You told to report any problems no matter how trivial:p

    I hope, my english is understandable, its isn't my native language and i didn't use it for a really long time;S
     
  11. tulee

    tulee

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    Kel is only playable for two levels.. Please keep Falric for the entire campaign


    Quote
    I don't think we need to share upgrades, now we have always 2 heroes, and cooperation gives us great advantage. Let's take chapter 6th for example: we made it very fast and without any problems (poor Mal'Ganis, shield bash + holy bolt...). You can always make it a bit cheaper (75% of actually cost, same with Keep and Castle upgrades), but I don't think you really have to do it.

    About bugs, I don't have nothing new to say, we got problems with save, once we got a code but it didn't work in next chapter (and no, I'm sure I didn't make any mistakes, the hell, I got screen and checked it out several times...). I got one game crush in chapter 10th when captain was falling from the bridge, I didn't dc from bn, but later I didn't have this problem, I don't know what should I think about it... You told to report any problems no matter how trivial:p

    I hope, my english is understandable, its isn't my native language and i didn't use it for a really long time;S


    He is making a hardmode for the game, hopefully making enemies harder than weakening our units/heroes
     
  12. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    Thx very much for playing them all.
    I'll double check those save codes, I've not tested them myself much.
    I'll think about the researches, I'm having trouble with the system anyway, so it might be easier just to reduce the costs.
    I've picked a model for undead falric, its not really what I wanted it to be like but it was the best I could find. The model does make a secret appearance in my latest human chapter.

    Adding space for a computer and designing another Ai might be a bit too difficult xP, and would probably cause even more imbalances and bugs. Sorry :O

    I see you also disagree with the shared researches, maybe I won't do it.
    Yep I'm gonna review those save codes.
    And I'll double check that bridge cinematic!
    Btw, I understand you fine : D

    In any level where there is not normally a 2nd hero, you will have Falric.
    For hard mode I'm gonna focus on making the enemy stronger, and giving you more obstacles, rather than making yourself weaker.
     
  13. SasuhKun

    SasuhKun

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    That's what they do on hard mode as far as I'm aware. They put more units, and more upgrades on their side. And as a model for Falric, you have two choices. One, you can do as the cinematic. Second, he's a boss on Halls of Lighting on WoW Wrath of the Lich King. You could also check it.
     
  14. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    I've had a good look around, the one I've found will have to do.

    MINI RELEASE:
    Attached to this post is an edition of the Chapter Five of the human campaign
    I've added a 3 features that I'm going to make available in other maps.

    The features are:
    - Exchange system: Player can type -exchange to give the units selected to your ally. (Food limits must be obeyed and Heroes, Town Halls, Altars, Summons and certain units also cannot be traded. This command is likely to be disabled on 'adventure levels' where units are limited)
    - Research system: Researches completed will be shared with the other player. And it isn't possible for both players to accidently research the same thing. (This is also partly to stop the bug which happened in the exchange system)
    - Techtree system: When a player builds or upgrades a building, the techtree requirements are shared with the other player. So only 1 of the players will need to upgrade to a Castle.

    The only changes on the actual level are that many T2 researches have been made available for testing purposes, and the Keep has been degraded to a Town Hall. (Something that will happen on -insane difficulty!)

    Please give have a test, find some bugs and give your feedback!

    And by the way, next I plan to add the Insane difficulty to the existing maps and the systems mentioned above. (2 map re-updates per week are planned)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 11, 2010
  15. Rafinius

    Rafinius

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    The exchange is nice but maybe it makes stuff a bit too easy. The only thing I would have liked while playing, is the ability to exchange the starting units, so that I can better specialize (see below). Can I also exchange stuff like farms?

    I don't really like the shared upgrades thing. It takes out the specialization part, witch was a very nice tweak in co-op building armies (also because both players are mostly the same race). Now both players just spam the same soldiers and attack together only having to look out that no one plays stupid. That takes much communication away in my opinion. I think a plain 25% cost reduction would have been better
    I have similar, but more mixed feelings about the techtree thingie. It lowers specialization, but on the other hand most requirements were HQ tier level and balancing it in a different way is difficult.

    Insane difficulty sounds interesting, but don't forget to make it not only for pro players but also people who are at a normal level (i.e. passed the campaigns without cheats and still know what to do in most situations). Also don't forget to make it a choice :p
     
  16. tulee

    tulee

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    '

    The tech tree and shared updates are a good thing.
    Also don't ask for the difficulty to not be made too high. How can you say make it easy enough for people who beat it on normal to beat it. Beating the normal warcraft campaign is so fucking easy. There is no micro required. He is making this update for the people who want a challenge
     
  17. TheSpoon

    TheSpoon

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    Can you exchange farms? - Yes
    (as long as both players new food limits won't be outstanding)
    You say it makes it too easy? I don't think it effects the difficulty of the level if you give some of your units to the other players?
    You should be able exchange your units on the melee-style levels, so on those ones you can exchange your starting resources.

    You also say you don't like the research system, thats fair enough, but if the exchange system is added, then the research system must also be added. (Because when you exchange units, you immediately gain all upgrades associated with that unit which the other player had)

    The techtree doesn't have this bug and can be added independatly, and I find its a fair balance.

    Insane mode will be harder, I'm not sure how much harder each level is going to be (its not easy to measure), but I will find a way to make the level more difficult than it was. Usually by levelling heroes (sometimes past level 10!), making creeps stronger, giving the opponents more upgrades, possibly editting their AI in some cases to make them 'smarter', giving you less starting upgrades (a town hall instead of a keep), and making the level's objecting more difficult.
     
  18. Cyper95

    Cyper95

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    TheSpoon may I suggest that you have one map that doesn't have research system & all the other things, because then the people who wanna play that way can do that(Just upload it to epicwar and give link on hive maybe?).
     
  19. Light0ne.

    Light0ne.

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    Yes gearing insane difficulty towards normal players would be a foolish idea. The entire point of insane mode is for the challenge. It is because you CAN handle the normal missions easy enough that you need the very difficult challenge. What's the point of an insane mode if everyone can beat it? It's not very insane is it?
     
  20. barowei

    barowei

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    About insane mode and shared techtree, I can see, that you abandoned my suggestion about it. It's your choice. But I still think it isn't really need, including -exchange command that imho won't be used very often (at least by me) - but, if that may be possible please make command that will turn off this features, that should make it more like "play as you want", so everybody should be happy I guess. Insane mode should be for elite players, who are seeking challenge. Who knows, maybe I will be one of them?:D

    About 3p scenarios, okay, but please: as rare as that is possible. My friend agree with me. I checked some scenarios, especially last one in the NE RoC campaign, and I don't think 3 players is good idea. You have two heroes already (furion and tyrande), and comp players aren't active. Giving them to one of players can break the balance. But, if you really have to do it, you can give Jaina to third player, and after she escapes give him control over Thrall's forces. Situation is more clear on TFT campaign, thanks to control over another player I can see at least 2 scenarios in undead campaign where you can add 3rd player (first one and when Sylvanas makes an alliance with Garithos).

    If I will remind something, I will add it.

    EDIT: Oh hell, I almost forgot: In 6th scenario, where Arthas meets Muradin, normal gold and wood (Im not sure about food) ISN'T good idea. Yeah, there are two bases, but still ONE player...
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010