Zephyr #13 - Theme Poll

[IcemanBo]

Time to vote.

Elemental	- Choose one element as theme for your spell. (fire, ice, earth, ...)
Model theme	- Create a spell that fits a chosen model very well, that was submitted on hive.
Uncommon	- Create a spell which appearance does not fit the standard WC3 theme. It should be something absurd, like by an unknown being.
Diversity	- Create a spell which concept is seperated in at least 2 phases.
Blizzard extension	- Retrigger a default blizzard spell. Modify parts of it, add extra effects/featues, extend it. But the spell philosophie should not change too much.
Deception	- Create a spell which focuses on trick your opponents. It should mislead the enemies to make bad decisions.

Note: The poll will end after 8 days, on 3rd september.

 

[Ardenian]

Diversity would be very interesting.

 

[Chaosy]

Decption. Not really interested in the others.

 

[Heinvers]

Deception sounds pretty good.
I'm curious to see what you guys come up with for that theme.

 

[Bribe]

Diversity is too generic. The others are uninspired, except for deception. If deception is chosen, extra points to the creative approaches people might use.

 

[Arad MNK]

~Voted for Diversity, Deception, and Uncommon.

 

[IcemanBo]

Diversity is too generic.

Almia made good example for Diversity I think, for example to create a trap and unit has possibility to trigger the spell to come into an other phase, like start explosion.

userid907, I don't think it makes much sense if you vote for each single possibility. What ever.

 

[Arad MNK]

userid907, I don't think it makes much sense if you vote for each single possibility. What ever.

It does, only for percentages

 

[Almia]

When I heard deception, i expect people will make spells similar to LeBlanc's or Wukong's (if you play LoL, that is)

 

[Bribe]

I'm hoping that people stay away from the mirror image theme for this one. There are better ways to trick someone.

 

[Ardenian]

I guess every participant will more or less do the same concept/ spell for deception, isn't it hard to think of greater variation ?

 

[Bribe]

Here's some ideas off the top of my head if it helps:

- A trick to make a player think you have low HP but you really have a lot.
- Cast a dud spell to make a player waste time dodging it
- Transform into a critter to disguise who you are
- Drop an item that does nothing if the enemy picks it up
- Make the enemy think their HP is low when it is not, and if they get damaged it actually does no harm to them (requires a damage engine for that)

 

[Ardenian]

Hm, I still think there is not that much difference compared to the other themes and we are going to do more or less the same. Happy claiming...

How does this work, by the way ? Once the contest starts, do participants write what they are going to do ?

 

[Bribe]

When I had situations like that, I just judged based on which of the two were better.

Here are some more:

Making a unit think he is moving about freely, but when the spell wears off teleport him back to the initial spell cast point

Confuse the minimap with random nonsense

Disable shared vision for the enemy team

Surround your hero with a bunch of air units so the enemy can't click you

 

[Chaosy]

Drop an item that does nothing if the enemy picks it up

I love this idea. Though I'd make the effect random. Because making a simply fake item is too simple.

For example it is disguised as a normal item but gives vision around the unit that carries it. Dibs on that idea! xd

 

[Shadow Fury]

For deception, I thought of making fake items. For example, a Tome of Intelligence which gives -1 intelligence (so it's a tome of stupidity in the end XD) or potions of healing which are in reality poisonous potions that instead of healing you they damage you. Why not even a whole fake Goblin Merchant? A spell that allows you to replace a real Goblin Merchant with a fake one that sells fake items.
But since there are other themes I liked, I didn't only vote for deception but also for elemental (fire for sure!) and uncommon.

 

[Bribe]

Haha, reminds me of the Pocket Shop I made in WarChasers 2.

 

[IcemanBo]

Ardenian, no worries. Rules will be shown later when contest starts.

 

[Almia]

Here's some ideas off the top of my head if it helps:

- A trick to make a player think you have low HP but you really have a lot.
- Cast a dud spell to make a player waste time dodging it
- Transform into a critter to disguise who you are
- Drop an item that does nothing if the enemy picks it up
- Make the enemy think their HP is low when it is not, and if they get damaged it actually does no harm to them (requires a damage engine for that)

Or something that gives you temporary invisibility

 

[Rheiko]

I like the deception theme but I still don't have a good idea what to make out of it. My Brilliant Ideas always disappear when I need it the most. Darn it.

 

[Wietlol]

For deception, I thought of making fake items. For example, a Tome of Intelligence which gives -1 intelligence (so it's a tome of stupidity in the end XD) or potions of healing which are in reality poisonous potions that instead of healing you they damage you. Why not even a whole fake Goblin Merchant? A spell that allows you to replace a real Goblin Merchant with a fake one that sells fake items.
But since there are other themes I liked, I didn't only vote for deception but also for elemental (fire for sure!) and uncommon.

The hard thing about deception is that most of these kind of spells are worthless when you know what happens.
You must trick the other player even though he knows what is happening.
That is why I chose deception.

Lets say that that "healing" potion does exist.
Then I wont buy that item or at least not use it.

 

[Shadow Fury]

The hard thing about deception is that most of these kind of spells are worthless when you know what happens.
You must trick the other player even though he knows what is happening.
That is why I chose deception.

Lets say that that "healing" potion does exist.
Then I wont buy that item or at least not use it.

The deception is that you do not know if the merchant is real. If you decide not to buy anything, then it will give an advantage to the enemy. That was just an idea of mine but if the contest will start I'll think about something smarter.

 

[Wietlol]

But how will the fake merchant replace the original merchant?
That is something that your opponent also knows because your opponent has used this spell before as well (in theory cause this would mean that for everyone that uses it, there was someone else who did it before which causes an infinite loop and destroys your mind because you cant handle it...).

Back to the topic.
Deception of the highest quality is making the opponent think things that arent meant to be.
The problem about these things is that there is always something that blocks the logic.
In real professional gaming, a true deception is almost only made using a secondary force.

In League of Legends, I remember a movie of a the that saved the day.
LeBlanc has a passive that when she falls under ...% hp, she vanishes for a moment and then appears together with a mirror image.
For allies, it is obvious who is who cause the fake has a different color.
For enemies, it is not so easy to see who is who cause they couldnt see the apprearance of the clone nor see any difference (except for damage dealt which is 0 by the clone).
Shen has an ult that he shield an allied champion across the map and teleports to him/her.

Shen used his ult on the clone of leblanc, causing the enemy to think that the clone has more priority to them than the other who they just let walk back to base...
Ofcourse it was only when the clone disappeared that the enemy found out that that was total deception.

So, in this example, the secondary force (Shen) is the ONLY reason why the enemy would only focus the mirror image.
That simple ability that has no deception at all and everyone knows what it does is the one that made the deception a true one.

It is a hard topic, but I am confident that it is worth the time.

 

[IcemanBo]

Poll acitivity looks good, let's hope we have many participants!

 

[Chaosy]

Poll acitivity looks good, let's hope we have many participants!

I will give up the moment the big boys join as always!

I am not that naive x), choose your battles wisely as they say.

 

[Ardenian]

I will give up the moment the big boys join as always!
I am not that naive x), choose your battles wisely as they say.

I wonder, why ?
Is there something like a secret thingy that participants using Jass or vJass are favoured or something like this ?

I mean, if you have an idea and you can execute it, where is the problem then with challenging experienced coders ?

 

[Chaosy]

I wouldn't try to apply for the world championship in football just because I am decent at it. It would be a waste of time, and it would just make me seem pathetic in comparison to the 'pros'. I can go on for a while if you want to hear more reasons to not take water over your head.

It's like a murloc brawling with Illidan.

edit: If you join for improvement you can just upload to the spell section and the moderator will review your spell just like here.

 

[Ardenian]

Hm.. I see..

 

[Flux]

I will give up the moment the big boys join as always!

I am not that naive x), choose your battles wisely as they say.

But you wouldn't lose anything in the process, aside from time.

 

[Wietlol]

@Chaosy
So in fact, only one person has to join right? The winner.
However there are multiple components to be judged and they have very little connection to each other.
I am 99.99% sure that there wont be 1 entry that beats all others in every part.
And next to that, it is just nice to compare stuff

 

[Chaosy]

Oh great, I started a debate..

But you wouldn't lose anything in the process, aside from time.

Pride, confidence, (possibly) good mood. Might as well create a spell and upload to the spell section, no deadline and no theme forcing, no pressure.. Straight of better if you know you got 0 chance to win.

@Chaosy
So in fact, only one person has to join right? The winner.
However there are multiple components to be judged and they have very little connection to each other.
I am 99.99% sure that there wont be 1 entry that beats all others in every part.
And next to that, it is just nice to compare stuff

No. Those who have a chance of winning, you said it yourself. There are multiple components. Hive's best coder (whoever that is.) might make a flawless spell code wise, but the concept itself is dull. Which might make Hive's third best coder win because he simply had a better concept.
If you're at rank 100 however..

For example, in football there are divisions to make a match fair and enjoyable. My local football club (division 2) will never, ever, face a championship team.

 

[Shadow Fury]

@Chaosy
So in fact, only one person has to join right? The winner.
However there are multiple components to be judged and they have very little connection to each other.
I am 99.99% sure that there wont be 1 entry that beats all others in every part.
And next to that, it is just nice to compare stuff

Exactly...
Ah btw for the merchant, it would be triggered. The true one would be replaced with a fake one with the "Replace" trigger so that the change isn't noticed. Even if it is already fake, it will be replaced by another fake one so no infinite loops or bugs. Well, this idea would fit for a map with many merchants so I should really think about something else.

@Chaosy, you are the classic guy "I join to win, not to receive criticism and/or have fun". You won't lose your pride if you're even the last one amongst the contestants. You will also receive useful critiques for improvements so I don't really see what you gotta lose. Anyway, it's your decision, I won't force you to join if you don't want.

 

[Flux]

@Chaosy, Pride?? I don't think so. You lose both either way, one for being a loser and the other situation for being a coward.
It is better to die fighting as they say. Sorry for being off topic, this will be my last.

 

[Chaosy]

I think the saying goes. "It's worth fighting for something that you believe in."

@SF
It's called being competitive. Criticism is all fine, but I can get that in the spell section as well. Along with other benefits mentioned in my other post.

 

[IcemanBo]

I would love to see many creative ideas.
If you can't get it to run, then better don't participate in a coding contest,
but if it works, it's maybe worth to try and you will also gain +exp, and maybe level up!

 

[Kyrbi0]

I mean, if you have an idea and you can execute it, where is the problem then with challenging experienced coders ?

Well, ostensibly the Contest & it's Criteria are set up in a way that, regardless of the style of coding used, a participant can expect fair Judging.

However, it has been my experience that GUI + Object-Editor-Workarounds are compared unfavorably to (v)JASS code.

Still, if I have time & an idea, I'll join; though voting for "Model Theme" & "Elemental" doesn't look like it's going far. :< "Deception" will be a bit difficult for me. Meh.

 

[Almia]

I would like this to start sooner. I have already made an idea

 

[Tank-Commander]

I've got my idea all figured out, just say the word when the contest starts (I too would prefer it to start soon) difficult theme to make flashy XD

 

[IcemanBo]

Poll ended. The theme will be Deception!
Contest Thread.