WW2: World in Flames [REVISED]

[Fingolfin]

Actually, as far as design goes, the russians had the best tanks. They had sloped armor, wide tracks, low profile, few moving parts.. while german tanks had no actual design elements, just a box fitted with massive heavy armor that would cause it to get stuck in any mud pool it got across, move significantly slower, not to mention break down frequently and easily get penetrated. German tanks had a hard time dealing with russian t-34's until the Panther tank came out in 1943, and then only because it had borrowed most of it's design from the t-34.

The reason russian tanks suffered more casualties was because of the superior training and strategy of the german tank commanders. Also, the red army suffered from a shortage on radio equipment, so only the command tank would be fitted with one, and thereby the prominent aerial that was easily seen by the germans. They would just destroy the command tank first and cause condusion among the rest of the unit.

As for the german soldiers, they were secretly trained on a large scale before the outbreak of the war, although through out the years i guess the skill level dropped as they were simply to desperate to get new soldiers to the lines.

 

[Vuormalainen]

No no no, let me do it.

Germany had the best men, their tanks were heavy (some too heavy to support the blitzkrieg) for sure but could of been much more effective with sloped armor and if they were easier to repair.

Russia had the best tanks, thanks to their well balance and mass production capabilities.

Im not much into navy nor aircraft, but as of all heroic stuff I heard about Battle of Britain I guess best aircraft award goes to them!

edit:
Grrr Fingolfin, one minute too fast

 

[Miss_Foxy]

How about damage / accuracy differences depending on the distance being shot for every unit?

 

[RiotZ]

Omfg, when do we beta-test Fingolfin... xD

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I think he mentioned it a few times, next year January I presume?

 

[Falafelkorv]

German soldiers were drafts only elites were Waffen SS Germany And Hitler broke teh law of having mass tanks in Europe.

Lol, you think their infantry were drafts? They were, especially in the beginning, well armed and well disciplined. Something USSR missed. Their tanks were good but often complex and expensive, and prone to break down.

Also, Russian forces were at the end hardened veterans.

And what law are you talking about? If you mean the "Piece treaty of Versailes", which i think you do, this were limiting their army overall, not just tanks.

//Zelzahim

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Speaking of prone, maybe soldiers could have a 'Prone' ability kinda like the 'Defend' ability on Footmen, except that they have an increased evasion/damage but decreased movement

 

[Fingolfin]

it is a great idea, but a little bit too much micro-management for this game. Quite effectively, everytime a soldier would be moving you'd want it to be in normal mode, and everytime it would be fighthing (or jsut standing guard) you'd want it to be in prone mode. Considering how many soldiers you could end up controlling at the same time, this is not something you as a player could keep up with.

Some more interrestign tank trivia:
Although the Sherman M4 hardly stood a chance against it's german counterparts, it still had no trouble defeating the japanese armor. Infact, american tank crews would use explosive rounds rather then armor piercing ones when fighting them, since the AP rounds would just go straight through the tank without dealing any significant damage.

More on the T-34 is that it could travel almost twice the speed of a Tiger I in terrain, while also having over 1 meter lower profile than the Sherman.

 

[RiotZ]

it is a great idea, but a little bit too much micro-management for this game. Quite effectively, everytime a soldier would be moving you'd want it to be in normal mode, and everytime it would be fighthing (or jsut standing guard) you'd want it to be in prone mode. Considering how many soldiers you could end up controlling at the same time, this is not something you as a player could keep up with.

Some more interrestign tank trivia:
Although the Sherman M4 hardly stood a chance against it's german counterparts, it still had no trouble defeating the japanese armor. Infact, american tank crews would use explosive rounds rather then armor piercing ones when fighting them, since the AP rounds would just go straight through the tank without dealing any significant damage.

More on the T-34 is that it could travel almost twice the speed of a Tiger I in terrain, while also having over 1 meter lower profile than the Sherman.

You should have a sniper class with the ability to prone... You'll very few snipers in a game do to a cap or their price, so you won't have to micro as much..

 

[Vuormalainen]

You should have a sniper class with the ability to prone... You'll very few snipers in a game do to a cap or their price, so you won't have to micro as much..

No (>message length requirement<)

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Will snipers be invisible? Or will they just be camouflaging into the terrain with a very tiny health bar so that it's hard to see them?

 

[RiotZ]

Will snipers be invisible? Or will they just be camouflaging into the terrain with a very tiny health bar so that it's hard to see them?

There are no snipers Foxy, and even if they blended in with the terrain, enemies would automatically attack because of Acquisition Range...

 

[Vuormalainen]

There are no snipers

Confirmed. And there won't be any, give up

 

[RiotZ]

Confirmed. And there won't be any, give up

"give up" Well you don't need to be a prick about it. xD

 

[Miss_Foxy]

How about soldiers, could they be given an upgrade to allow them to blend in? And only be able to be auto-shot when under a certain range, otherwise you'd have to target them manually from a further range.

 

[Fingolfin]

You heard xRiotZx foxy, it can't be done. A units aquisition range is constant, you cannot change it for certain units.


As for the sniper suggestion:

I really hope you guys are actually reading my responses, otherwise you'll just be asking the same questions over and over again.

 

[RiotZ]

How about soldiers, could they be given an upgrade to allow them to blend in? And only be able to be auto-shot when under a certain range, otherwise you'd have to target them manually from a further range.

You can add "Permanent Shadowmeld" which will make them invisible during the day and night, I think it may reveal them after a gunshot though.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Finny, what about the fact that bullets, instead of being homing, are shot in a straight line? So that people can have a chance dodge them both by moving or standing still.

 

[Vuormalainen]

Finny, what about the fact that bullets, instead of being homing, are shot in a straight line? So that people can have a chance dodge them both by moving or standing still.

GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

ERROR ERROR HAZ NO SUPPORT FOR MICRO MANAGING SHUTTING DAOOOOOWN.


Just no, it would lag to hell when people started fighting with they awesome large bad ass armies.

This is not a FPS, neither a TPS, THIS IS.... SPAR-.. RTS!
As I said, you should win of clever overall strategy, not micro managing hundreds of units. This is not gonna be another korean ninja-speed game.

But it's not only about that, as I said, it will lag.

 

[RiotZ]

Finny, what about the fact that bullets, instead of being homing, are shot in a straight line? So that people can have a chance dodge them both by moving or standing still.

That would not make the game lag, though it would make it severely hard. I know a few ways to make a lagless system like that. But having everyone just running their units in circles to prevent death would be pretty fucking retarded right?

Is their going to be inaccuracy tuned into the game? Like perhaps you are 1000 away with a standard infantryman and you have a slightly lower chance to hit? I know a couple Modern Warfare RTS's with that type of system in it.

 

[Vuormalainen]

That would not make the game lag, though it would make it severely hard. I know a few ways to make a lagless system like that. But having everyone just running their units in circles to prevent death would be pretty fucking retarded right?

Is their going to be inaccuracy tuned into the game? Like perhaps you are 1000 away with a standard infantryman and you have a slightly lower chance to hit? I know a couple Modern Warfare RTS's with that type of system in it.

It would make it lag, I guess you don't see how many units there are shooting all the time.

Inaccuracy would be odd having to move your units further than they need to be able to shoot, like attacking with a bunch of units towards Moscow needing to move units even further after they started shooting. It's as stupid as the other idea.

"But having everyone just moving every single unit further than acquisition range (or however it's spelled) to gain advantage would be pretty fucking retarded right?"

To sum this up and hopefully not receive more such suggestions which we mostly got the last 20 pages;

Think of your role in World in Flames as a Chief of Defense, Defense Minister, Army Minsiter or whatever you like to call them. You have full control of all units of your country, you do the bigger orders.

It's not like you would send a order to every man "lie down" "ok, stand up, forward", no. Squad games, yes, awesome-big-rts, no.

You tell parts of the army to go there and there, what units do you want and so on.

Instead of having all these micro options, it's balanced into the game. Thank you.


Yes Foxy you can continue posting ideas. No, we don't hate you.

 

[RiotZ]

It would make it lag, I guess you don't see how many units there are shooting all the time.

Inaccuracy would be odd having to move your units further than they need to be able to shoot, like attacking with a bunch of units towards Moscow needing to move units even further after they started shooting. It's as stupid as the other idea.

"But having everyone just moving every single unit further than acquisition range (or however it's spelled) a to to gain advantage would be pretty fucking retarded right?"

To sum this up and hopefully not receive more such suggestions which we mostly got the last 20 pages;

Think of your role in World in Flames as a Chief of Defense, Defense Minister, Army Minsiter or whatever you like to call them. You have full control of all units of your country, you do the bigger orders.

It's not like you would send a order to every man "lie down" "ok, stand up, forward", no. Squad games, yes, awesome-big-rts, no.

You tell parts of the army to go there and there, what units do you want and so on.

Instead of having all these micro options, it's balanced into the game. Thank you.


Yes Foxy you can continue posting ideas. No, we don't hate you.

I mean't an extremely tiny negative effect. Lie 5% inaccuracy for every 1000 maybe, it would sure help make artillery realistic.

Do you hate me Worma?

 

[Vuormalainen]

I mean't an extremely tiny negative effect. Lie 5% inaccuracy for every 1000 maybe, it would sure help make artillery realistic.

It sounds better, but you will still gain an advantage if you're an korean.

It could be strategicly positive, such as rushing your light tanks further from behind and doing more damage instead of standing by. Although you already have chance to deal more damage/stun vehicles when attacking from back and sides. I'am not sure about the -if, then- factors for the bonus so I guess Fingolfin could go further into detail with that if you want.

Do you hate me Worma?

If it wasn't because of that smilie I would. (Because without it, it would sound baaaaaad)

edit:
But as that is the first time you call me Worma (as far as I can remember) I can sense something bad.....

 

[RiotZ]

It sounds better, but you will still gain an advantage if you're an korean.

It could be strategicly positive, such as rushing your light tanks further from behind and doing more damage instead of standing by. Although you already have chance to deal more damage/stun vehicles when attacking from back and sides. I'am not sure about the -if, then- factors for the bonus so I guess Fingolfin could go further into detail with that if you want.



If it wasn't because of that smilie I would. (Because without it, it would sound baaaaaad)

edit:
But as that is the first time you call me Worma (as far as I can remember) I can sense something bad.....

Why does everyone call you Worma anyway? Are you German?

 

[Vuormalainen]

Why does everyone call you Worma anyway? Are you German?

It's a nickname. I'am Finish, a lot people tend to think I'am German however

 

[RiotZ]

It's a nickname. I'am Finish, a lot people tend to think I'am German however

Okie, well I don't have any witty recommendations yet so... Sit tight.. xD

 

[Vuormalainen]

Okie, well I don't have any witty recommendations yet so... Sit tight.. xD

lol.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Okay But will soldiers be able to swim in the shallower waters with reduced movement speed?

 

[Nightblade]

Hows the project going?

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Well, are they able to swim with terrain difficulties?

 

[Fingolfin]

Where would they swim? Just taking a bath at the beach?
I don't really see any need for this, to be honest, i think it looks better when they just walk through it.

 

[Nightblade]

From your website,engineer is 'weak in direct combat'.But he is stronger than the soldiers?

 

[Fingolfin]

He has higher damage, lower attack speed, but twice the price of a normal soldier, and twice the building time. What i meant about that snippet of text is that building an army of engineers is not a winning strategy, they're just a field construction unit. I will propably change it somehow.
I think their attack speed will be even lower later, i will be givig them a rifle instead of an smg. It is not accurate to what engineers/sappers actually used (smg's and shotguns), but i just couldn't skip rifles in a ww2 map. You can press "compare units" and click on the two to see how their stats differ.

EDIT: Apparently, it was vuorma who wrote that tooltip. You should ask him, because i don't know

 

[Vuormalainen]

EDIT: Apparently, it was vuorma who wrote that tooltip. You should ask him, because i don't know

Answer:
What i meant about that snippet of text is that building an army of engineers is not a winning strategy, they're just a field construction unit. I

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I don't mean 'swimming', I mean like, the terrain debuff on shallow water where you need to just walk.

 

[Svenska_0rmen]

The major power: USA, Soviet and Germany should have 1 Heavy Heavy tank like The German Maus tank. Soviets IS-7 and the American Pershing.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

What's a Pershing?

 

[Hugomath]

An American heavy tank that entered in service in late-war. Google it if you want, type " M26 Pershing ". I personally like it very much :B

 

[Miss_Foxy]

I wonder if Fin already plans on adding that...

 

[Fingolfin]

They are all pretty massive (=AWESOME) tanks, and i could very well consider modeling them for the community.
However, i don't want this to be a map of escalation - we already have three tank classes, plus the german heavy tank - and neither the pershing nor the IS-3 (i assume you can't mean the prototype IS-7 of which only 3 were built!) saw any real action during ww2.
It would only fit the role as an "even larger tank", that would turn the tank destroyers obsolete.


@Foxy: That is a nice idea, but unfortunately, it is a bit hard to code in an efficcient way.
I'd have to run a trigger every 0.10 seconds retrieving a location from each unit on the map, then check if the pathing of that location is "amphibious", and then apply the buff. It is certainly doable, though again, the tactical advantages of this aren't great enough to make it pay. I have intentionally removed most wading places in the map simply because the low unit scale causes units to appear under water when they cross those places, and instead reverted those routes to bridges.
it is good thinking though, if i ever find a place on the map where units are required to walk in the water to get by, i could add a local buff dummy there just like i did with the other terrain debuffs.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Sure What about using a neutral hostile aura unit?

 

[Vuormalainen]

Sure What about using a neutral hostile aura unit?

We know how to trigger things, we just need the suggestions

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Okay I'm really sorry...

 

[WOWWARS]

anti tank infantry could be able to distroy tank distoryers

 

[Fingolfin]

There is no anti-tank infantry in this map.

 

[Miss_Foxy]

How about making one It doesn't seem too hard, plus they were in WW2.

 

[Falafelkorv]

We actually were discussing that a long time ago.
The problem is, the russians do not have any equal to the German panzerschrek and US M9 bazooka.

And where are those models fingolfin?

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Or you could use those rocket launching thingy attachments

 

[Fingolfin]

As falafel said, we have discussed this. Historically, rocket launchers were pretty much useless against anything but the lightest tanks, and most armies wouldn't use them since it would simply give away your position and attract the attention of the tank. It was simply impossible to build a rocket launcher that had the required muzzle velocity needed to penetrate a tank without breaking the shoulder of the user.

Also, we already HAVE an anti-tank infantry support unit, the AT-gun. Those were produced in massive numbers by all nations and had the same penetrability of a tank. If we pack the game with too many unit types, the player will be confused as to when he(/she) should use what.
And sadly, it is not as simple as attatching a rocket launcher attatchment - the soldier would still be giving off a RATATATA-sound everytime it fires, the gun muzzle would appear, and it would be holdiing the weapon in a very unnatural way.

 

[RiotZ]

As falafel said, we have discussed this. Historically, rocket launchers were pretty much useless against anything but the lightest tanks, and most armies wouldn't use them since it would simply give away your position and attract the attention of the tank. It was simply impossible to build a rocket launcher that had the required muzzle velocity needed to penetrate a tank without breaking the shoulder of the user.

Also, we already HAVE an anti-tank infantry support unit, the AT-gun. Those were produced in massive numbers by all nations and had the same penetrability of a tank. If we pack the game with too many unit types, the player will be confused as to when he(/she) should use what.
And sadly, it is not as simple as attatching a rocket launcher attatchment - the soldier would still be giving off a RATATATA-sound everytime it fires, the gun muzzle would appear, and it would be holdiing the weapon in a very unnatural way.

If you didn't want them to hold it in a strange way you would just make it a bazooka type weapon, being that is held under-hand like a regular rifle...
But I agree with you in the respect rocket launchers were not very often used in the war. Although for some reason the Panzerschrek is used like hell in video games..

As for infantry-types, there are so many sexy units you could have that you are pissing me off by not considering. 1. Attack Dogs, 2. Snipers and 3. Radio Operators.. Wouldn't it be hella fun to send a shit load of attack dogs to an enemy infantry emplacement and just letting them tear them to shreds while you call in a paratroop using your Radio Operator designated with your scout sniper..