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Why are WoW models not allowed?

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Level 7
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I find the rule that bars all discussion of, posting of, and submitting of WoW models completely arbitrary. Why dose this rule exist anyway? People rip off models from games all the time; so long as it isn’t for profit it is legal.

Also, since this site dose not allow such models, I'd like to know a site that dose other than the obsolete W3DA.
 
Level 14
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I find the rule that bars all discussion of, posting of, and submitting of WoW models completely arbitrary. Why dose this rule exist anyway? People rip off models from games all the time; so long as it isn’t for profit it is legal.

Also, since this site dose not allow such models, I'd like to know a site that dose other than the obsolete W3DA.

Wrong... ripping models is legal only if you are using it for PERSONAL use, not for free. If I'd make a mmorpg game with wow ripped models, it's illegal even if I do it for free. With WoW it's another case because the games are from same company (Blizzard) and blizzard released WoW icons, so that makes a problem. Unfortunately we don't know official Blizzard stance about these models, except that map with WoW models got approved on Battle.Net site.

I personally don't mind WoW models, and I help people looking for tips how to export them, it's just my way of things.
 

Deleted member 126647

D

Deleted member 126647

I personally make scratch models and/or animations myself.
 
Level 32
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These are my personal opinions:

Urlock said:
I find the rule that bars all discussion of, posting of, and submitting of WoW models completely arbitrary.
Our site owner owner and administrators set the policy for THW. We users who choose to exercise the privilege of membership should respect their rules, even if we happen to disagree with them.


Urlock said:
Why dose this rule exist anyway?
I think that this rule is more or less of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. You can do it all you want, but we are not going to encourage or help you.

Urlock said:
since this site dose not allow such models, I'd like to know a site that dose
Just shop around, friend Urlock: follow the hyperlinks from Blizzard, any Warcraft site or even try a search engine.

Mechanical Man said:
So, releasing a map with those models on this site is illega?
While not necessarily illegal, it's certainly immoral.

Until such time as the policy is changed, I will not myself personally approve such resources.
 
Level 32
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I think that the "No WoW Exports" (or other games as well) rule is designed to try to keep the Warcraft III multiverse unique unto itself. Meaning that, one can draw ideas and concepts form other games like WoW, Neverwinter Nights, Zelda, or others, but cannot directly extract resources from those games.
 
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WoW models are horrible to begin with. It's not only illegal and immoral to use these (illegal to use in a non blizzard game, and immoral to use in your map) but they are VERY high poly, they come with hundreds upon hundreds of unneeded animations and they are FAR to detailed for WC3 use, anyway. One model will practically bring you past the 4 mb battle.net hosting limit, so they are completely useless to you unless you are making a single player map anyway.
 
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Urlock said:
I am only questioning why the "No WoW Exports" was made.
The technical aspects of those exports should also be considered. They are VERY large in file size, for example.

Urlock said:
Not that I necessarily agree with that
No problem there, even if we agree to disagree with one another or with the rules, everyone is still entitled to their own opinion. As I said earlier, these opinions are mine only.

As other WCIII modders (or our administrators) voice their opinions on this topic you might receive an answer that is more to your satisfaction. If thereafter you are still not satisfied you will have a variety of choices:
  1. Continue to lobby in support of your opinion (not highly recommended.)
  2. Operate within the spirit of the rules and mod WCIII to the best of your ability.
  3. Ignore this website, and its accompanying rules, altogether.
 
Level 8
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choices:
  1. Continue to lobby in support of your opinion (not highly recommended.)
  2. Operate within the spirit of the rules and mod WCIII to the best of your ability.
  3. Ignore this website, and its accompanying rules, altogether.

We the users have the right to discuss the rules about this site. Becuase without the users a site is nothing.

As for the WoW models Blizzard would of done something along time ago about people using them why we can't be a 100% sure they care the percent on which they don't is pretty high enough that people shoulden't use the illigal escuse to enforce there argument. Personly I think that say a couple users get together extract some common WoW models like footman,ghoul,lich,ect and then optimize them clean them up for Wc3 use and submit it as a "Offical" recource so you can still keep your no submitting WoW policy but still have the models avaliable for users.
 
Level 45
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Same universe or not. They are from different game engines.

Gosh, iv said this so many times..

1. Blizzard DID NOT MAKE THE MODELS. People hired by blizzard did, this, they still own personal ownership over the models they have created.
-YOUR STILL STEALING THEIR WORK if your modifying, redistributing, selling or claiming their work not unless you have their permission(actual blizzard people who can say and change the laws and ownership over their content)
So thus, we dont support stealing.

2. This site does not condemn them because thats like saying everyone will use them for the right purpose. Not everyone is going to use them rightfully, and they will abuse their right because not everyone is perfect nor holds good morals.

3. It puts the modelers(not goddam, geo-mergers or editors) down who have spent many days and even years modeling for wc3, then suddenly a bunch of bozos come in saying "LOOLOL I MAKE MODEL,YOU CAN MODEL SEE MY MODELS?" or they go "I RIPPED THESE ALL FROM WOW (shows 100 models) FEEL FREE TO DL AND GIVE ME CREDIT LOLOL"
-Then people request like...over at least 20 threads or more a week asking for wow models or asking for a ridiculous amount of wow models (50 models or more).

4. It makes maps look ugly... as in, very, takes away creativity, and top skilled mappers know that uniqueness is the large key, not taking models from a famous game, whacking them in just to make your map look "cool" and making it look like your map actually took hard work to make.

5. The Wow models have highpoly, sure, 1000 is okay, but 4000 polies? and have 20 of those 4000 polied units on the screen? We are talking about 200 grunts on the screen dudes.
-They have no foot prints
-No attachment points
-Missing certain anims
-Anims are too detailed
-Style does not match
-They are obvious that they are from WoW
-They are large in file size, meaning one fucking huge map
-They have no sound attachments
-Dont proportionally balance with wc3 models.

6.And as for you model editors who use wow models, its not about grabbing weapons and armour, heads and claws and thwacking them all together. Its a matter of manipulating shapes and forms to create something new, you dont need wow models for that.
-You gain NO modeling skills from whacking crap together.
-It takes you further away from learning actually modeling and gaining proper dignity.
-You arnt being creative OR original.

7.And the people from that bnet site who approve the maps with wow rips, let me say again, ARE NOT OFFICIAL BLIZZARD STAFF.

8.and as for the other thing, yes, it is illegal, but blizzard doesn't take much action on it(the only thing they did was change the mpq to stop it, but they also did it for other reasons).
It is illegal since:
The game is of a different engine.
The models are for public use(not personal)
read this:
Ownership.
All rights and title in and to the Program and the Service (including without limitation any user accounts, titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogue, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, "applets" incorporated into the Program, transcripts of the chat rooms, character profile information, recordings of games played on the Program, and the Program client and server software) are owned by Blizzard or its licensors. The Program and the Service are protected by United States and international laws. The Program and the Service may contain certain licensed materials, and Blizzard's licensors may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement.

these other ones
A. All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Game and all copies thereof (including without limitation any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions and recordings, audio-visual effects, storylines, character likenesses, methods of operation, moral rights, and any related documentation) are owned or licensed by Blizzard. The Game is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international treaties and conventions, and other laws. The Game may contain materials licensed by third parties, and the licensors of those materials may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this License Agreement.

A. Subject to the license granted hereunder, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on the Game, or remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Game. Failure to comply with the restrictions and limitations contained in this Section 4 shall result in the immediate, automatic termination of the license granted hereunder and may subject you to civil and/or criminal liability. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you may make one (1) copy of the Game Client and the Manuals for archival purposes only.

exploit the Game or any of its parts, including without limitation the Game Client, for any commercial purpose, including without limitation use at a cyber cafe, computer gaming center or any other location-based site without the express written consent of Blizzard;

blegh.. had enough posting..anyway, they may not be on the exact point(the quotes from the EULA) but they are hell down close and good enough in my opinion.
 
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well first of all the models do not belong to the individuals who made them. Blizzard makes them sign contracts just like any other art studio you work for deplicting that minus the giving credit to who made it the model officly becomes property of whoever owns the 3d modeling software the person made it on.

As for my suggestion it was suggesting that we get like 3 users or so extract the most common WoW models clean them up and post them as offical and ONLY WoW model recourse on the site. This will keep the noobs from doing it and getting credit for it and this will still allow people who would like to use the model to freely download them.

btw for your critzm on how putting pieces of a model together dosen't make you learn modeling any. Matter of fact you do learn just like how a kid that use to trace comic book charicters in 6th grade can now draw them freely it gives you a grasp and concept on how there drawn or made now there is a limit on how much you can learn to it but its usly how roolkies in modeling start out.

@Tonks This is why its called Site Discussion....
 
Level 45
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blizzard merely makes them sign a contract so they can use the models for company's intetions and for commercial use, that doesn't mean they can own it 100%. They only own certain rights over the work.

as hosting of wow models, thats just silly...seriously..if people want them, they should get it them self. they don't own Wow? then tough luck, they should if they are using the models.

i for one never learnt by tracing and copying, im against that and i find it wrong, referencing and observing? sure thats okay, but copying and stuff, no way.
Thus, you dont need to tear wow model apart to learn how to model like wow modelers, simply all you need to do is observe the topology, the skin and the animations and thats all you need (can be done in wowviewer)
as for me in modeling, i fiddled with amapi far before i heard of wc3(or at least knew you can model for it) i also experimented with other programs like wings. I never really geomerged much, i mainly geo-edited when i didn't know how to model for wc3. That taught be the basics of mdl data, not very much with modeling, i asked for help and tuts and critz when i was learning to model(actually model model, not edit)

EDITED since i sounded like i was on some evil substance.
 
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Acutly the modelers are using 3dsmax that is licensed to blizzard so yea its 100% theres lol. Also you can't really learn how a model works just by viewing it in a viewer why do you think scientist kill a animal and disect it to figure out how it works rather then just watch it all day? you got to mess with it yourself move it around interact with it to really learn how it works. But anyways NOW tonks is right and where straying off topic to much so yea...
 
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A good idea would be to export WoW models, and try to imitate them making a new model from scratch, I have done it multiple times.
 

Deleted member 126647

D

Deleted member 126647

I agree with Werewulf.

And Xlight, it is stupid to release the more "common" WoW models for open use as the only WoW models allowed.

This will just make people ask "well if you have those ones, why can't you get me this and this one?" This is not the intention, nor what we want.
 
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Thank you, Werewulf, for covering some of the more technical and legal aspects of this topic in detail.

Chriz. has made another excellent point: were some WoW exports allowed and others not, a subjective "cut-off line" would have to be established, a potential source of endless contention. Drawing this line at zero leaves no room for any misinterpretation.

I do not agree that this discussion should be closed or locked. As long as the thread is not being spammed by off-topic irrelevancies it should remain open to allow for free speech in case anyone else has another valid point or opinion to contribute.
 
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Well every map you create is the property of Blizzard(according to the GUI), you use blizzard model to make "unofficial" blizzard map so there isn't really the problem of legality. The problem is there is no point of "copy/paste" the work of someone else, you are making a map as an hobbie and not as a work(where is the point of being lazy ?), and WoW isn't War3 as Werewulf said it's not the same use.
 
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Yes, if that thing happens with the wow models, there surely will be people asking for like..over 100 character models and ALL the models in the WoW database and thats...just stupid. I mean, what do we want? a Wow database or a database for wc3 models?

anyway, the first things i said were based on my opinion so they may seem kinda over the top but i just hope u get my point.

and topic closing? No, just as long as this discussion stays as one rather than an argument.

EDIT: no shit jacek. I dont get paid for a hobby of mine. And you know why i hate Wow rips now :)
 
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Well that one thing I agree with werewolf this topic shoulden't be locked along as it dosen't volate the rules. Like I said before this is why its called Site discussion to discuss a rule or something of the site it isn't "ow this person question is awnsered move along!" i mean he did put "debate" on his first post.

As for more legal argument lets face it blizzard does not care I mean they haven't said it but if they did they would of done something about it way long ago. I mean the WoW models haven't extended out anymore then to warcraft 3 and for blizzard its just more WoW promotion to recruit more MMORPG addicts I mean players.... Matter of fact I think ill even e-mail blizzard about the issue, and post what they have to say on it.
 
I have to disagree, theres nothing to argue honestly, they aren't going to change the rules, WoW models are WoW models, they don't fit into Warcraft 3 (the icons may but the models sure as hell don't)

High poly, their art style is different, their textures are by a different artist. It just flat out doesn't fit in with Warcraft 3.

And modelers shouldn't have their work drowned out by some moron who learned how to convert WoW models to Warcraft 3 (Its not hard to do..) and floods the models section with them, it would just be immoral and saddening to see a WoW model's downloads outdo a piece of work someone put hours into just because its WoW
 
Level 11
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I think that models aren't allowed is that they actually would be illegal to use. Unlike WoW icons (which Blizzard provided for Wc3), the models haven't been set aside for Wc3 use. Just because it's from a Blizzard game shouldn't change anything.

And as with other points, they just don't fit in.
 
lol if I wasn't religious I would've called him a god ;)

Otherwise, back on topic..

I used to be in the shoes of those asking for WoW models, back on wc3sear.ch, but after awhile, I learned myself through practice its much more satisfying to make your own in Warcraft 3's style, then to import some high poly monstrosity into your map.

So for you leeches out there, don't even rip them yourselves, don't rip them at all, let the artists work live on in what it was intended.

And if you all petitioned blizz's art department as much as you spammed about this topic, they'd probably send them to you on a cd-rom in the mail packaged with flowers and a tag saying "<3 Blizzard" (Or they'd burn your house down..)
 
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So you claim that this hive has nothing to do with wc3search? Then how it is possible that you have same resources? Also, if you are scared of WoW models in database, host Crazynutter's tutorial about model exporting, so people can export them themselves, instead of crying for tutorial or model export every 2 days
 
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