What are we?

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A lot of people have wondered why do we live. There may not be an exact reason for this.

Please, discuss about this. How has our race begun? How's it going? How long we live? For what?

I have a boring opinion for this: we are a part of very big system, that will never crash (unlike windows vista. hmm... bsod in real life? :D )
I would like to hear something more colorful than that.

Forget about religion stuff. Not like "God made us and God will end us!"

Edit: If there's an topic for reason for living this is not the same.
 
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We live because we could be part of biological experiment done on a dead planet that the Earth has been and seeded with life and water with time.

We live to be food of other - higher beings that could be the very same creators.

We live to be a new civilization that can meet its galactic brethren some time in the future.
 
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I believe we live to evolve... I mean... to evolve as beings... as in physically, mentally and spiritually... so that at some point in our evolution we might get an awareness of the true goal of our race... (if there is another one besides evolution).
 
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There was this big explosion and when spacetime expanded enough to let all the energy cool down, various subatomic phenomena began to take shape. As it cooled further those subatomic waveforms bound together to create many types of particles, but as we don't yet understand much about any of the others, let's focus on protons, neutrons, electrons, and photons. Cooling further, these grouped together and formed the most complex waveform yet. A single hydrogen atom. Cooling further, these atoms bind into elemental hydrogen. Otherwise structureless clouds of hydrogen gas fill the universe.

Cue gravity. Let's undo the cooling resulting from the expansion of space. Let's bring localized pockets of matter together and "increase" their energy. As those clouds compact the pressure at the center of gravity rises ever more dramatically with mass. Eventually this boring world of hydrogen gas surprises us with even more structure. Hydrogen fuses to create helium and electromagnetic waves (photons). But helium atoms don't link like hydrogen does. Huh. As the pressure increases, more heat is transferred to the core and more and more fusion happens. With enough mass, a star ignites. That structureless cloud of gas begins to take on a very complex shape. As time goes on, more and more layers are created until the star attains critical density and can no longer justify nuclear fusion. A lot of the time this means the core was iron. So yeah the star explodes and the chaotic event causes even heavier elements to form. Now we can start doing some real chemistry, trying to figure out how all these different atoms link up.

Cue, again, gravity. That cloud of elements again pulls together, but this time with very different results. For the first time in the billions of years the universe has existed, we have solid matter instead of gas. A hydrogen ball re-forms at the center of the solar system, sometimes igniting into a star again, and we get various types of second order and even third order satellites - planets and moons, respectively. As this point there is so much structure in the universe that we need to form sub-disciplines. As you increase gravity, and therefore pressure, you eventually get a distinct third phase of matter: Liquids.

I'm not much of a chemist, so I don't know exactly how mind boggling the possibilities are, but they're quickly approaching "inconceivably" as far as I can tell. There is one structure that I think I have a fairly good grasp of though. We'll call them the "organic elements." On Earth, at least, they tend to 1.) form extremely complex molecules naturally, and 2.) react quickly. If the various crystalline forms don't capture your interests, then perhaps an amorphous blob will. You can poke it and split into into smaller bubbles. It's so flexible and strange. By far, I think, the absolute most complex structure ever conceived. It'd be hard for me to imagine anything more complex could possibly arise.

Well guess what? It turns out chemistry has a near-infinite complexity. The number of ways you can construct molecules and the ways they interact is absolutely mind-boggling. With the organics alone you can form some massive molecules composed of long chains of atoms. Acids and sugars and proteins. As it turns out, you can practically program the formation of these things. And, as it happens, there are naturally occurring programs. But not all programs are equal. Some do interesting things and others do a few things and then go inert. You could say they "halt," or, if you prefer, "die."

So the interesting organic reactions continue to occur, cyclically. But it's not a perfect process. Sometimes an atom gets hit by one of the incomprehensibly numerous photons the sun pours out and gets excited out of place and screws up the process. Call it a bug, call it a death, call it failure, but every now and then, these "mutations" don't screw things up. Occasionally, and very rarely, they change the program in a novel way. While the possibilities are endless, the reactions cannot happen without some kind of "fuel." Whether it be some kind of "burning" process that turns O2 and I don't even know into CO2 or some kind of "photosynthesis" that does the exact opposite, the only life that can flourish is the one that has fuel.

Over billions of years, life actually turns out to have the capacity to alter the entire chemical face of the planet. At this point life is so prolific and full of a variety of mutations that even though 99% of them die now that their fuel is exhausted, that 1% goes on to re-proliferate and evolve. Ecosystems arise and these single cells begin to work together. As it turns out, teamwork is awesome for accomplishing goals. Eventually they work so well together that an entire clump of cells acts as an organism unto itself. Of all the unfathomably infinite realms of possibility, that such a structure would arise naturally is beyond my wildest imagination.

It gets worse. Cells begin to specialize. More and more complex multicellular organisms arise. Eventually, and I have no idea how, but at this point I see now reason to question that such a thing is possible, a very strange type of cell manages to find its program occur naturally. A neuron. As a neuron does little by itself, it could never have arisen in the single-celled world. But when you join these cells together, something absolutely remarkable happens. Something so strange, so complex, so incomprehensible, that I find it logically impossible to explain. Thought. Consciousness. Awareness. Decision. Learning. The uncanny ability to alter chemical reactions at whim. No longer are we mere chemical reactions in a vast universe.

Two main types of thinking organisms arise. Predators and prey. Or, as I like to call them, hunters and herds. In the early days, hunters tend to be solitary. Looking out for themselves. Once again, teamwork comes into play. Herding animals further unify and develop a sense of community. Let's call them social creatures. Eventually hunters learn to form packs too, blurring the lines I've attempted to draw in the universe. Over the eons many species come and go as the universe sends chaotic event after chaotic event towards the planets, changing the environment temporarily and forcing life to alter itself in order to flourish more effectively than other lifeforms competing for the same fuel. Apex predators tend to take it the hardest when this happens.

One such social creature finds itself in quite a different environment after one such event. Normally this family of species live in forests. Forests? Oh yeah they're a type of plant. Plants have been around for billions of years now. In fact they're older than the neuron. Well the point is, their environment changed dramatically. For survival's sake, their brains managed to evolve an entirely new way of thinking. Let's call it... Abstract. Let me tell you about intelligence. Intelligence is great. It allows you to make decisions in entirely new ways. Cause and effect are no longer something your neural network calculates and calibrates itself to, but they are coherent concepts in and of themselves. You can reshape your environment in ways you would literally have not thought possible otherwise. Over the years you can reach a point at which your entire world is artificial. No matter where you look, just about everything you see was fabricated at the hands of intelligence.

We're reaching, or have already reached, a point at which we can create entire ecosystems. We can alter the landscape and change anything as we see fit. With time and effort, I'm not sure there is anything we are incapable of. The biggest challenge posed to intelligence comes from that of a competing intelligence. But what about teamwork? What happens when we work together? What happens when our entire civilization, ecosystem, our entire world, unify? What structure might form at such an already unfathomably inordinate level of structural complexity?


Of all the possible answers, that we aren't part of a much larger structure yet to be realized is completely out of line with everything the universe has ever done.
 
The wording needs some work.
It wasn't actually an explosion, but the expansion of energy and photons from a singularity created by mere nothingness. Photons are massless after all, so they don't really need anything to create them (No, I don't mean the cause, I mean that they don't need you to have anything to transform in order to create them), but they do need something to cause their creation (Here, I mean "cause", HURR). I don't know what energy is on a more basic level though. (The first thing that comes to my mind when I'm faced with this question is a curve in string)
 

fladdermasken

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It wasn't actually an explosion, but the expansion of energy and photons from a singularity created by mere nothingness.
Explosion

exp-los-ion
n.
  1. A release of mechanical, chemical, or nuclear energy in a sudden and often violent manner with the generation of high temperature and usually with the release of gases.
  2. A sudden, great increase.
 
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We are Homo sapiens. We are humans, Also we are the only living beings, who have consciousness - we understand we exist, we understand that we live in a world, we understand what we do and who we are. We eat and drink to survive. We are lazy, so we invent to make our live easier and there for we can be more lazy.

We count - 15 :eekani:
 
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The IluMIanati Create Us to feed the Reptillian Lizard Men deep Belo our Earth when the Great Feasting Comes.

Some History -- 10 Bilion years ago Iluminati make Lizard men but LIZARD men 2smal l2 eat Dinosaur??? So they make human....The lizard men have not ate for 10 billion Years but be afraid my brothers for they will feast Soon upon all Humin..
 
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I think we're just Sims created by a noob running around unattended in a randomly generated world.


The wording needs some work.
It wasn't actually an explosion, but the expansion of energy and photons from a singularity created by mere nothingness.
Incorrect. Not from nothingness. The gravity of a black hole rips the fabric of space and time and creates a singularity. Within this singularity is an infinitely large space where a new universe is born. So, our universe is one of many. On top of it all, there has always been energy in our universe. There was at no point "nothing". The very thought of something before the Big Bang is ridiculous. It's like drawing a location on a map that is south of the South Pole.
 

Deleted member 157129

D

Deleted member 157129

I had no intention of coming here, so please bear with me when I don't heed any of the posts within the thread beyond the one I cite. I merely clicked a link to TRD's latest post in order to add a reputation comment for his misbehaviour in chat. Then I read the post and wanted to philosophise over it.

The gravity of a black hole rips the fabric of space and time and creates a singularity. Within this singularity is an infinitely large space where a new universe is born. So, our universe is one of many. On top of it all, there has always been energy in our universe. There was at no point "nothing". The very thought of something before the Big Bang is ridiculous. It's like drawing a location on a map that is south of the South Pole.
Following this line of thought (partially coupled with the earlier post this is a comment to) here, one would assume that the so-called Big Bang is the birth of a black hole that leads to this universe we live in. That is, when a massive star in an exterior universe collapsed and formed a singularity (very rough and simplified way to say it), this universe was born, and all the matter this black hole has sucked (and presumably continues to suck - hence the ever-expanding universe) out of the exterior universe continues to fill this universe. Likewise, we give matter to new universes and so the chain continues forever. However, it still leads you to wonder what universe was the first one. It is very comfortable for us humans to have a definite answer to what came first, so that we can order things chronologically. I think this desire is preventing us from ever figuring out the universe, and thus the events that has lead to our existence.

To get back on topic, though, I find the theory of our existence being a result of nature's way of balancing out for something else as the most realistic one. Just like natural disasters. We're an earthquake. We started somewhere, and we continue to create new after shocks, breaking down the planet, and forming a new one. Yet, I don't think we evolved from monkeys, it is simply too large a gap between us.

As a Satanist, the past is of much lesser importance to me and I don't spend much time dwelling the past or the becoming of what has become, I rather deal with what is to come. Still, knowing the past is essential to understanding the future. Quite the dilemma.
 
The origin of the most fundamental things in the universe also boggles my mind.
For example, why is the speed of light ~300000Km/sec and not something else? >:eek:
Why do objects prefer balance?

Quantum Physics makes answering this a piece of cake though:
It happens at random and for no real reason.

Have there ever been experiments that test Quantum Mechanical theories?
I'd love to see that ^.^

NOW GIVE ME YO KITTEH
(If you know what I mean)
 
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Yet, I don't think we evolved from monkeys, it is simply too large a gap between us.
The gap isn't as big as some would believe. For instance: You bro, are genetically more similar to a male monkey, than you are to any woman on this planet. Also, we have found a chromosome in the human genome that is undoubtedly the result of the merge of two chimpanzee chromosomes.

Ignore the title.

Have there ever been experiments that test Quantum Mechanical theories?
I'd love to see that ^.^
Yes, many tests have been conducted on Quantum Mechanical theories. In fact, every person on this forum is conducting such a test (Assuming you all have mobile phones) at this very moment.
 
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The gap isn't as big as some would believe. For instance: You bro, are genetically more similar to a male monkey, than you are to any woman on this planet. Also, we have found a chromosome in the human genome that is undoubtedly the result of the merge of two chimpanzee chromosomes.

There is proof of evolution, there is proof of having in common with apes but there is also proof of inconcistencies in the theory of Darwin (considering it is centuries old and shouldn't be considered as the only true story). One inconsistency is epigenetics, other inconsistency can be seen in the skulls comparison here plus add the 'missing link' never found:


I think we're mixed with apes and actual human looking civilization before the man was born.

Otherwise yes, there was this break on History channel with a monkey and when you look at its balls and penis it looks exactly like adult human, just darker and its appropriate color and skin...
 
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what do you mean we never found the missing link? we found many links, from the ape-like australopithecus to our fully human cousins the neanderthal, we found literally hundreds of varieties of hominids in between. it is likelly that present day homo sapiens could have reproduced with homo neanderthalensis, homo heidelbergensis, and homo ergaster, who could probably have reproduced with homo habilis and so on. what more missing links do you want?
genetics prove evolution. do we really have to pull some extraterrestrial civilization out of our asses, that evolved millions of light years away from our star, and yet had enough genetic similarities with our species to hybridize with us? might as well claim a wizard did it

also, the currently accepted theory of evolution isn't the "theory of darwin", it has been ammended countless times since then, and is quite solid, especially when compared to any you might come up with, that's why the serious scientific community accepts it

also to say that we evolved from chimps is to miss the point, we evolved from a common ancestor, that was neither a chimp nor a hominid, but something in between
 
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what do you mean we never found the missing link? we found many links, from the ape-like australopithecus to our fully human cousins the neanderthal, we found literally hundreds of varieties of hominids in between. it is likelly that present day homo sapiens could have reproduced with homo neanderthalensis, homo heidelbergensis, and homo ergaster, who could probably have reproduced with homo habilis and so on. what more missing links do you want?
genetics prove evolution. do we really have to pull some extraterrestrial civilization out of our asses, that evolved millions of light years away from our star, and yet had enough genetic similarities with our species to hybridize with us? might as well claim a wizard did it

Hundreds? Source? Did you not take 10 minutes to check out the big difference from just the last two skulls while for all previous it was similar skulls. Why do civilizations disappear suddenly, why are we considered not the first civilization? What happened to the rest? Every time an asteroid hit us right?

I will let you know, when it comes to creationism, evolution, extinction of dinosaurs, what you read in textbooks is just part of the whole picture because there is no way scientists can say that exactly so happened, sure they can find traces of evolution but from who, what where - no one really knows..

Think it like that, acting like a straight scientist who is in 'I don't hear you' mode about anything different from the already established doesn't make you less gay.
 

HFR

HFR

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ancient-aliens.jpg
 
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Hundreds? Source? Did you not take 10 minutes to check out the big difference from just the last two skulls while for all previous it was similar skulls. Why do civilizations disappear suddenly, why are we considered not the first civilization? What happened to the rest? Every time an asteroid hit us right?

I will let you know, when it comes to creationism, evolution, extinction of dinosaurs, what you read in textbooks is just part of the whole picture because there is no way scientists can say that exactly so happened, sure they can find traces of evolution but from who, what where - no one really knows.

let me start with this, you have trouble believing homo habilis evolved from australophitecus because of a perceived lack of transitional fossils, or what you describe as a "missing link". australophitecus, and the genus homo were but another animal back then, it wasn't particularly more numerous than any other large animal, so it is already impressive that we found as many transitional fossils, i can assure you we haven't found nearly as many, or classed them with nearly as much finesse and subtlety, for any other transitional fossils between modern animals and their ancient cousins and ancestors.
so what should we do? assume every animal we have currently are the product of interbreeding with extraterrestrial lifeforms?

physical anthropologists, who are themselves often terrible scientists with a racist political agenda, have nonetheless documented considerable morphological variations in skulls, even among groups of comparative genetic proximity, or putting it in laymen's terms, even among groups of people within the same race. average skull volume can vary up to cubic centimiters in mere decades to respond to changes in social and geographical environments

there's also the misconception that evolution only happens over very long periods of time through very slight changes. while this is true for some cases, many factors can trigger an acceleration or slowing in the process of natural selection, and change the direction in which it operates.
a catastrophic event can change the environment and force a species to adapt radically for short time survival and a reduction of energetic necessities, while a particularly abundant period might allow for an increase in energetic necessities, allowing a species to grow, for example, a bigger brain.
species can also be forced to change their habits, a largelly herbivore hominid might have little necessity for a large brain when all he does is pick up fruit, but exhaust this resource and force it to find an alternative and you might see its brain capacity increase drastically over mere thousands of years.
such a dramatic burst can generate comparatively few transitional fossils, which might account for any perceived lack of "missing links". that isn't the case, though, compared to the rarity fossils in general, scientists are very satisfied with the number of hominid fossils, and they can draw a pretty good picture from what evidence was found from these fossils


Think it like that, acting like a straight scientist who is in 'I don't hear you' mode about anything different from the already established doesn't make you less gay.

wat? what is already established in serious science, is so because it was falsified enough times and survived it to be considered solid. nevertheless, the scientific community is constantly reviewing itself, and isn't afraid to admit it's mistakes. aditionally, it works, it's methods work
acting like you're smarter than the thousands of people with academic degrees on anthropology doesn't make you any less ignorant, and the fact that you have to resort to personal insults and denigrate a specific sexual orientation actually does make you look stupider
 
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I'm not making up my own theories but getting to read some theories of other people who have done their scince beyond what is already established, so I'm not claiming 'smarter than all scientists who explain it with evolution', nor do I deny evolution as I've mentioned several times. But there are enough things to suggest evolution may not be all (again not all != exlcude evolution)

How would you explain the intelligence we got, what kind of development is this? yes a dog can understand commands, play with a ball, many animals can do that but they remain animals. Compare a monkey and compare a human, physiological similarities, right?

Same similarities as a dog and a wolf, same physiologically but different animals. But both are animals, how come we didn't see a smart elephant that can do maths, solve physics problems, it only happened to humans? Or another ancient animal use fire? :D

It is because we could have been similar in physiology and common ancestors, like a dog and a wolf example but add the human uniqueness, no other animal developed that well, darn it! And despite im not a believer in the Bible, afterall, it is talking about creationism so there is no guy sitting in the clouds. Plus some of the researchers talk about humans being the 5th 6th and so on civilization? Do we have a record between neanderthals and the last Ice Age and suddenly tadammm Sumer, Ancient Egypt, Babylon etc? With the so much clues that suggest we may not be alone, depicting people coming from the skies, I do not agree this is entirely evolution..
 
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5th or 6th civilization?!
every animal on the planet is unique, our uniqueness isn't unique. you'd also be surprised how inteligent some animals can be, parrots, chimpanzees, dolphins and pigs have demonstrated arithmetic capabilities previously thought to be only human characteristics, elephants and wolves are gifted with very human-like empathy and emotions...
the reason why any other animal hasn't developed "higher" intelligence, intelligence is a fairly complex feature, it is a combination of several mental capabilities (many of those can be observed on perceived "lesser" animals) so, being a fairly complex feature it is unlikely to develop convergently twice in a close time proximity. let's talk about any other complex features: eyes. eyes only developed once, and were inherited by all the descendants of the original eyed creature, who was once unique in it's eyedness. even today, there are eyes much more developed than others, ours are merelly primitive eyes that can see clearly a fairly short scope of the color spectre, only with fairly bright light, and and at a fairly short distance, many animals surpass us on these characteristics.
legs, proper legs developed several times in natural history, yet they developed with several million years difference in between, so the first legged creatures and their descendants were unique in their leggedness for millions of years.
intelligence, intelligence itself isn't a unique feature, but a development of a lesser feature, a more primitive intelligence, and we see differences in intelligence of magnitudes similar to the difference between humans and the average mammal on other comparissions: the octopus is many degrees of magnitude more intelligent than the average invertebrate, is it also half alien?
chimpanzees are also highly intelligent, as you might have heard, more so that many mentally disabled humans and children up to five years, the fact that you still think of them as animals is simply because they don't speak a language similar to yours, but they can be taught.
once you interact with a chimpanzee that can communicate with you through gestual language, or when you see a parrot making up composite words to describe unknown objects that share characteristics with objects he knows, you'll feel somewhat less unique

the only reason that there aren't species as intelligent as ours in our planet is because high intelligence was developed very recently by species ancestor to ours and that we replaced on their niches, and it would be very unlikely for it to develop parallel on another branch of the tree of life in such a short time span; we are but the few first million generations to develop high intelligence on this planet
 
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What I find interesting is that on a topic about the purpose of humanity, we start talking about science. Our culture today has pushed science into every other field. Prime example being "political science". Politics is about as far away from science as I can imagine. It's about humanity; greed, power, influence, etc. How are those things scientific at all?
 
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Ice Age and suddenly tadammm Sumer, Ancient Egypt, Babylon etc? With the so much clues that suggest we may not be alone, depicting people coming from the skies, I do not agree this is entirely evolution..

you edited this in after i started typing my previous post, so i missed it.

there are actually thousands of years and many early sedentary cultures before those you mention. the climatic changes brought by the end of the ice age forced many established hunter gatherer communities to adopt agriculture, the hunter gatherer lifestyle is actually healthier and easier than a sedentary lifestyle, but the warming climate made it unsustainable in some regions of the world. later, technological advances made agriculture a more desirable practice and it spread to other parts of the world.
while hunter gatherer lifestyle requires less work from each individual to sustain themselves, agriculture requires much more work from the farmers, but it allows them to feed more people. it leaves many people bored and without work, who are forced to either make themselves useful or starve, which enabled differentiated professions and dedicated researchers, and professional warriors, who in turn brought many technological advances, and peacefully or forcefully spread their lifestyles to other regions. this easily explains how civilizations progressed more quickly than previous hunter gatherer cultures, without the need of external influence from either spiritual or extraterrestrial beings.
 
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so, being a fairly complex feature it is unlikely to develop convergently twice in a close time proximity. let's talk about any other complex

How do you know how often intelligence of that kind can develop? Ah right the 'we are the only humans in the universe, no intelligent life could even exist as it is completely rare'. P.S im a scientist, see how scientific I sound? Cause I know it for sure, I can see through the unvierse!'

Are you trying to say you know things that no one else has explained? Wow! I can do that too, I can find explanations about everything, I can even turn against what I know is true and can give it an explanation just to not sound unusual. But face it, unusual things DO happen, things that YOUR mind is too CLOSED to imagine it can be. Because you don't see it every day..

I see what you did there... you are philosophising.. just twisting words in no paragraphs whatsoever. Ignoring the the things that don't make sense in human history and the events that happened that can confirm a lot of what you don't even imagine in your CLOSED mind.

What you said happens, I do not deny the different development of animals but it is a complete ignorance of the fallacies in human history. I'm not saying any of the things I stand for are a FACT but evolution in the way you explain it as if you know how history went through when there is a lot of things to say it wasn't exactly so... is also just part of the puzzle.

The part of the human history where there is barely any record is just too unknown to claim any of the current explanations as the only ones when there are others.

Yes, there is evidence to show there are holes in history and the picture may be different than your closed mind can imagine, it's just not enough to become science, yet but it's being worked on. I suppose you are not familiar with the many facts about unusual objects and 'people in the skies' throughout centuries for such claims to exist at all.
 
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The words biology and evolution in the same sentence without the word species there makes my head ache.

I believe it's impossible to understand Humanity or answer the thread creator's questions until we start acknowledging simple biology.
 
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the only reason that there aren't species as intelligent as ours in our planet is because high intelligence was developed very recently by species ancestor to ours and that we replaced on their niches, and it would be very unlikely for it to develop parallel on another branch of the tree of life in such a short time span; we are but the few first million generations to develop high intelligence on this planet


Again how do you know how often intelligence can form? SPECULATION MUCH? It's not like your anyone working in that area yet alone know how possible it is even if you were.. Ah right the 'we are the only humans in the universe, no intelligent life could even exist as it is completely rare'. P.S im a scientist, see how scientific I sound? Cause I know it for sure, I can see through the unvierse!'

Yes I'm aware of the tools, agriculture and all they used but there is numerous events from the ancient times talking about ships, chariots from the sky, PEOPLE coming from the skies, today's sightings, most of them military, others remain unexplained and too high in technology, so many documents about UFOs, so much vagueness in human history.

Before talking about agriculture, you do not even know Sumerians appeared totally out of nowhere, and disappeared also without a notice.. Ancient Egypt talk about some who've come frm the sklies, Ancient China, Etiopia, Mayans, Aztecs, American Indians..

You only repeat things like a broken casette recorder established in textbooks that I've read a painful number of times... please.
 
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eimtr, i can't stand this much longer, reading your posts is somewhat painful. i don't think you have enough mastery over language to be having this conversation, but i'll try to respond nonetheless

'we are the only humans in the universe, no intelligent life could even exist as it is completely rare'
when did i claimed that? you're the one claiming that intelligence is something so special that it couldn't have developed from non-human primates, and had to be brought to earth by mystical beings, i'm instead claiming that intelligence is simply a more developed version of an animal characteristic, that could, and probably would develop again in other animal life forms, given enough time and favorable environments. it is speculation, yes, but not more than your own claims. at least i dont go about pulling little green martians out of my ass
i don't have a stance on extraterrestrial life or intelligence, i find it very possible, even likely, yet not feasibly falsifiable with current technology, so any serious stance on it will have to wait for some solid observations(not the dubious sightings you're talking about, nor the fantasies of pseudo-historians that can't distinguish mythology and artistic liberties from reports of ufo sightings)

Before talking about agriculture, you do not even know Sumerians appeared totally out of nowhere, and disappeared also without a notice
wat... i actually know plenty about the sumerians, thank you. they appeared not out of nowhere, but from prehistoric agricultural societies in mesopotamia, that had begun to settle and develop agriculture since as early as 10000 bc. they invented the first written language and left us plenty of historical records. whatever mystery shrouds them is perfectly reasonable, given they existed seven millennia ago, and can be explained by many concurrent serious scientific theories, without resorting to invaders from outer space

You only repeat things like a broken casette recorder established in textbooks that I've read a painful number of times... please.
actually, yes, i've read books, is that a bad thing? i have more than a passing interest in ancient history, my uncle is an archeologist and i have access to a number of books and periodic magazines. i've also participated as a volunteer in archaeological excavations and had a chance to discuss these subjects with reputed scholars. you, on the other hand, repeat things like a broken casette recorder established in conspiracy theories and pseudoscience that I've read a painful number of times... please.(or whatever that sentence may mean)
 
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at least i dont go about pulling little green martians out of my ass
i don't have a stance on extraterrestrial life or intelligence, i find it very possible, even likely, yet not feasibly falsifiable with current technology, so any serious stance on it will have to wait for some solid observations(not the dubious sightings you're talking about, nor the fantasies of pseudo-historians that can't distinguish mythology and artistic liberties from reports of ufo sightings)

Reading my posts is painful? Wow! Who was doing a no-paragraph walls of texts and you will teach me how I post?

Pulling out of o's ass? Here is an event that is representing what people saw, this is not 'artists expression' in the way you want it to be, someone just drawing for the lolz.

BaselWoodcutting.jpg

A 16th century woodcutting depicts this scene in which dark spheres were witnessed hovering over the town of Basel, Switzerland in 1566. The spheres appeared at sunrise, 'Many became red and fiery, ending by being consumed and vanishing', wrote Samuel Coccius in the local newspaper on this date.

Nuremberg1561.jpg

At sunrise on the 14th April 1561, the citizens of Nuremberg beheld "A very frightful spectacle." The sky appeared to fill with cylindrical objects from which red, black, orange and blue white disks and globes emerged. Crosses and tubes resembling cannon barrels also appeared whereupon the objects promptly "began to fight one another." This event is depicted in a famous 16th century woodcut by Hans Glaser

Source

The quotes are writings from those times, they match a lot with some of today's sightings. It is mentioning how they released things out of them (like missiles) towards the others, so this rules out meteorites. Again smaller object relased and hovering from a bigger object is typical for today's sightings.

You have knowledge in history, I have knowledge in Astronomy and I've read all science says about our evoluton and let me tell you - I've never seen a 'ufo' because I was able to identify all I see and because obviously im not someone nuts who calls every light in the sky 'aliens'. Now should I claim all people are IDIOTS even well trained pilots because I myself haven't seen ONE?

However, despite the large amount of uncredible people, liars, disinformers, I do know that there are things and technology most of it military, the rest could very much not be as there has been enough confirmation whether there has been military training or whether

Yes it is not certain and I never was certain about something that doesn't just show on a daylight, you got that right - some of the things I say are just as much speculation as what you claim.

Of course, the current explanation about how we develop makes the most sense but should any of the Bible be true and like the above example, there are things that aren't 'JUST ARTISTS' and did happen... well then the theory of Ancient Astronauts is the ONLY way any of this to be true.

I told you, excluding what definitely deserves attention, acting like 'Im the straight scientist who disregards research on all that is not in textbooks doesn't make you less gay. But you are just a kiddie, you may have broader view one day.

As for aliens on Earth, whether they are aliens or natives, it has yet to be proven, it is currently not scientific. But the documentation and clues about them is just too darn heavy to not be holding some truth and research is a must.. What science has found about our evolution could be so, but there is no way to prove that exactly so happened.

Most of that scientific theory makes sense and I agree with it, I just have a thing in mind when it comes to ancient history of which we can never get enough record, otherwise yes, today's science explains to great extent our evolution.
 
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The scientific community is constantly reviewing itself, and isn't afraid to admit it's mistakes.
You're half right. It is reviewing itself and seeking to improve in large part, but you must realize that it is composed of homo sapiens. Now, I don't know if you know much about homo sapiens, but I can tell you that every one of them I have ever met has had trouble admitting their mistakes.

Relatedly, neither of you is an idiot unless you're convinced the other one is.


There is nothing physically preventing extraterrestrial civilizations from sending probes to Earth. There never has been. There is no reason to believe we've never had such a device come to Earth at any point in it's history. The very fact of the matter is that we are not only capable of doing this ourselves, but we already have.

When we're dealing with events like cited in the previous post, we first have to determine that what is being witnessed is not technologically possible for humans at the time. Being as we are now, there is little we can witness that we can say for sure was not human. As time goes on this will get worse and worse. We can't use probability here. We can't just keep going on dismissing the claims because of how unlikely we calculate them to be. It is just the opposite. Our calculations of how likely it is should be dictated by what is claimed. Anything else is confirmation bias.

The next step is try to to figure out WTF those probes are doing because I'm drawing a blank as to what an alien civilization would be doing putting on an air battle show in our atmosphere.
 
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