Tauer's Models 2.0

[loktar]

That looks awesome

 

[Deolrin]

Unfortunately, I can't do that, the hammer is linked to his hand and can't be moved.

Can't you theoretically just make a child bone to the hand bone and position it in the exact same spot as the hand? I think that wouldn't mess up the animations, or would it? I mean, I dunno. Personally I think that he really should drop his hammer, in both of his death animations. It would look really cool.

 

[NhazUl]

If you set it to "do not inherit rotations", it shouldn't mess up. Otherwise the hammer would move with the hand even when it's on the ground. Btw it's getting better and better. ^^

 

[Rui]

Maybe all the other parts of his body are a little static when the spear hits?

 

[Heinvers]

Maybe all the other parts of his body are a little static when the spear hits?

Mostly his legs and arms.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Unfortunately, I can't do that, the hammer is linked to his hand and can't be moved.



Good idea.

Thanks, I wanted to finish him today, but I gotta sleep soon. He will definately be finished this weekend.

I am lovin' that spear-death-anim. Lol, that's cool.

 

[Tauer]

OK guys, I'm gonna release him now.
Now, the animations aren't perfect I'll admit... the export fucked some of them up a little bit. It shouldn't be very noticable ingame though, and I was getting really tired of the shit. So I figured better to release him like this than to keep working on it until I gave up.
It should still be much better than the old one, because of the texture alone. The animations are also still better than before I think.

I'm sorry for the delay, it has taken a lot longer than I anticipated. Hope you guys are not too dissapointed - now I'm gonna relax I think of what model to make next! ;D

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/orgrimdoomhammer-202156/

 

[Heinvers]

No problem. Already checked it, no problems with it so far. The animations play accordingly.
Great job Tauer.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I'm sorry for the delay, it has taken a lot longer than I anticipated. Hope you guys are not too dissapointed - now I'm gonna relax I think of what model to make next! ;D

What is it with decent, honorable guys like you and feeling obligated somehow to the community?
You owe us nothing. Those that are 'disappointed' are that way because of inane self-ascribed expectations.

Just keep being awexome.

(And model Trolls OR ILL BE SO DISAPPOINTED >>... )

 

[Heinvers]

Zul'jin I guess, right Kyrbi0?

 

[Hardtime]

So no update on Durotan?

 

[Tauer]

No problem. Already checked it, no problems with it so far. The animations play accordingly.
Great job Tauer.

Good to hear, thanks!

What is it with decent, honorable guys like you and feeling obligated somehow to the community?
You owe us nothing. Those that are 'disappointed' are that way because of inane self-ascribed expectations.

Just keep being awexome.

(And model Trolls OR ILL BE SO DISAPPOINTED >>... )

Thank you I'm mostly worried about dissapointing people because the animations look better during the creation process, because I render it in 3DS Max. The exporting process always screws up the animations..

So no update on Durotan?

Not right now, no.

Working on base mesh for Zul'jin. No WIP pics yet, it's still too basic. Can't really seem to get his shape right.
I guess his arms and legs should be longer than an orc's, right?
Also wondering what kind of armor he should have, if any. As far as I can see on the concept, he doesn't really wear armor. But he would also looks very empty without any armor at all.

 

[Heinvers]

Working on base mesh for Zul'jin. No WIP pics yet, it's still too basic. Can't really seem to get his shape right.
I guess his arms and legs should be longer than an orc's, right?
Also wondering what kind of armor he should have, if any. As far as I can see on the concept, he doesn't really wear armor. But he would also looks very empty without any armor at all.

Well, good to hear that you're doing a great Zul'jin model (the rest are awfully made/ no offense to the respective creators).
As for him, well only some cloth would fit him right now, maybe add knee metal piece and one on his left shoulder or a glove on his hand.

 

[Tauer]

Well, good to hear that you're doing a great Zul'jin model (the rest are awfully made/ no offense to the respective creators).
As for him, well only some cloth would fit him right now, maybe add knee metal piece and one on his left shoulder or a glove on his hand.

Yeah, I'll think of something.

OK, here is a really early WIP:

Starting out with the torso (as I always do..)
Just trying to get the shape right. Don't know, should his arms be longer? Trolls seem to have abnormally long legs and arms.
I could use some feedback from some of the Troll experts on this one.

 

[Heinvers]

Well, I think yes:
Here are some examples(sorry for these):

Ex1

Ex2

 

[Deolrin]

I'm not sure if World of Warcraft art and models are the best inspiration. Those trolls seem a bit too bulky and even orc-like to me.
These are the in-game troll models in their unanimated stance:
http://prntscr.com/3dp9hf
Not sure if it's any help at all to you, but it seems like trolls are more muscular around their upper chest area and arms, and yes, their arms and legs do seem abnormally long.

Also wondering what kind of armor he should have, if any. As far as I can see on the concept, he doesn't really wear armor. But he would also looks very empty without any armor at all.

I'd say bracers, like in WC2. Maybe a glove like Heinvers suggested, his classic scarf, perhaps some jewelry in his ears, hair and tusks. That should just about be all I suppose. It should look higher-quality or more expensive than regular troll stuff, though, him being the leader and all.

 

[Heinvers]

I guess you're right Deolrin (since you're a troll fan), good call anyway.

 

[Tauer]

I'm not sure if World of Warcraft art and models are the best inspiration. Those trolls seem a bit too bulky and even orc-like to me.
These are the in-game troll models in their unanimated stance:
http://prntscr.com/3dp9hf
Not sure if it's any help at all to you, but it seems like trolls are more muscular around their upper chest area and arms, and yes, their arms and legs do seem abnormally long.

I'd say bracers, like in WC2. Maybe a glove like Heinvers suggested, his classic scarf, perhaps some jewelry in his ears, hair and tusks. That should just about be all I suppose. It should look higher-quality or more expensive than regular troll stuff, though, him being the leader and all.

Good point, although I do believe that lore-wise forest trolls are supposed to be more bulky than their Darkspear counterparts, right?
In the books at least, they are described as being very large.

Thanks for the screencap, that'll be useful.

Thanks for the input guys.

New screen:

Still working on the mesh, having a bit of trouble getting the look right. It needs to be humanoid but still not too human-like. Any ideas?

EDIT:

Little update.

Don't know about the legs... there's something about them that doesn't feel Troll-like.

EDIT 2:

Starting to take shape...

EDIT 3:

Adding a few details, armor etc..

 

[Heinvers]

------------------------------
1. Don't know about Deolrin, but the legs are a bit bulky for a troll. Don't you think?
Here's an idea about the legs: you could make him bare footed not wearing boots, that would make him look more like a troll ( I don't say that all trolls are bare footed but..).
------------------------------
2. I think that the waist could be slimmer while the shoulders a bit wider to give him a more trollish look.
------------------------------
3. You could make the actual hands (not arms) a bit elongated.
------------------------------
It's taking shape good so far.

 

[Tauer]

------------------------------
1. Don't know about Deolrin, but the legs are a bit bulky for a troll. Don't you think?
Here's an idea about the legs: you could make him bare footed not wearing boots, that would make him look more like a troll ( I don't say that all trolls are bare footed but..).
------------------------------
2. I think that the waist could be slimmer while the shoulders a bit wider to give him a more trollish look.
------------------------------
3. You could make the actual hands (not arms) a bit elongated.
------------------------------
It's taking shape good so far.

Alright, tried making his waist a little bit slimmer and his shoulders a little wider. Have to be careful not too overdo it though, or it might look too exxagerated. Also made his hands a bit longer.
I did plan on making him barefooted yes, and give him ankle "bracers" or whatever

Also began on the mesh for his axe(s)

I guess his animations shoulder be throwing axes, like in WC2?

 

[Heinvers]

I guess his animations shoulder be throwing axes, like in WC2?

I don't see why not.
I guess it would look like the example I've attached lower.

 

[Tauer]

I don't see why not.
I guess it would look like the example I've attached lower.

Yeah, that's one of the artworks I'm going for.

It's getting there. Just need to do the head now. Base mesh should be done soon.
I'm not giving him tusks, since pretty much every artwork and game model/sprite of Zul'jin doesn't have the tusks.

 

[Chen]

It's taking good shape now, nice WIPs. Well, can you make Vol'jin next?

 

[Tauer]

It's taking good shape now, nice WIPs. Well, can you make Vol'jin next?

Nah, don't think so, sorry. To be honest I'm not really a Troll guy - and Vol'jin... well, he's kinda meh.
I'm mostly making Zul'jin because he's probably the most important Troll in (pre-WoW) lore, and his design is kinda cool. Vol'jin is just a Darkspear troll..

I'd rather go for another orc next time or maybe Lothar.

 

[Heinvers]

I'd rather go for another orc next time or maybe Lothar.

I bet on Lothar or Drek'thar.
Anyway the scarf is taking shape nicely so far.

 

[Chen]

I bet on Lothar or Drek'thar.
Anyway the scarf is taking shape nicely so far.

Drekky Yay!

 

[Hardtime]

Maybe I'd go for an epic Lothar or perhaps a bad ass Rend Blackhand. Maybe even Teron Gorefiend. Not much DK models here to fit his original dark persona.

I bet on Lothar or Drek'thar.
Anyway the scarf is taking shape nicely so far.

Drek'thar really didn't do much during the 2nd War. All he did was lead the Froswolves into hiding during Durotan's absence and waited for Go'el's return and there aren't any good concepts to base him on. Regardless, he's still a cool shaman.

 

[NhazUl]

Theron Gorefiend would be really nice. And great job on Doomhammer, if I may add.

 

[Tauer]

Drek'thar really didn't do much during the 2nd War. All he did was lead the Froswolves into hiding during Durotan's absence and waited for Go'el's return and there aren't any good concepts to base him on. Regardless, he's still a cool shaman.

You mean Thrall's return.. His name is Thrall.

Drek'thar, nah.. He's a minor character, plus the normal Shaman model is pretty much exactly him. His character was based on that model and vice versa.

Theron Gorefiend would be really nice. And great job on Doomhammer, if I may add.

You may, and thank you

Teron Gorefiend is a definate possibility though. I'd like to do a real Gul'dan though.

More pics.

His face is almost done, unless anybody has any input. Still need to do the mohawk and then the modelling phase is actually pretty much finished.

 

[Hardtime]

Why give him a shoulder pad? Didn't most trolls during the 2nd War only wear clothing? If they did wear armor, I'd suggest that to be leather instead of metal. Great job but I think his ears need to be a little longer. Trolls have ears as long as the Elves's. Maybe you should also add a strap to his shoulder pad. It'd look weird for it to be just hanging there. Maybe his arms could be a little longer too. Trolls have longer arms than regular humanoids.

 

[Heinvers]

A lil' bit of uniqueness is not bad.

 

[Hardtime]

A lil' bit of uniqueness is not bad.

Just stating my opinion hehe

 

[Heinvers]

Good to know Hardtime

Teron Gorefiend.

Yes, that would be cool:3

 

[chr2]

Why give him a shoulder pad? Didn't most trolls during the 2nd War only wear clothing? If they did wear armor, I'd suggest that to be leather instead of metal. Great job but I think his ears need to be a little longer. Trolls have ears as long as the Elves's. Maybe you should also add a strap to his shoulder pad. It'd look weird for it to be just hanging there. Maybe his arms could be a little longer too. Trolls have longer arms than regular humanoids.

Straps etc could easily be made on the texture. No need to add unnecessary details to the model. Also, his arms seem long enough to me. I do agree with the longer ears though.
Nice job so far, Tauer! Looking forward to see the finished true leader of the Forest Trolls product !

 

[Hardtime]

Straps etc could easily be made on the texture. No need to add unnecessary details to the model. Also, his arms seem long enough to me.

I'm just noting what I think could be fixed And I've also noticed in Tauer's style that he doesn't leave the chains or straps all to the texture. He usually creates something to fill out the spot. I'm also just trying to standardize his humanoid form to a more Troll-like thing, but then again Zul'jin wasn't like any regular Troll

 

[Tauer]

Alright, the modelling is pretty much done! This is good, went much faster than I anticipated

About the shoulderpad, I just thought he seemed a bit empty without it. The plan is to make it a wooden plate or bark or whatever, it seems more trollish than metal or leather.

I guess the straps can be textured.

Mohawk is done, and ears made larger. The arms should be long enough, I already made them quite a bit longer than normal human proportions.

Total tris count is 715.

Any final input on the model before I start unwrapping + texturing?

 

[Heinvers]

I see that you're pretty much done with the mesh. I do agree about that

the shoulderpad, I just thought he seemed a bit empty without it. The plan is to make it a wooden plate or bark or whatever, it seems more trollish than metal or leather.

 

[Wolffman]

Tauer, I must say I love your models, they are the best Orc models I've seen on THW..

A few things though, if you're creating Zul'jin shouldn't he have long hair instead of a mohawk? Unless you were going for the Heroes of the Storm version of Zul'jin of course

Here are the pictures from WoW and an artwork :--

Overall, I think you're going great nethertheless, so keep it going and keep it strong

 

[Heinvers]

He's aiming for a 2nd war era of Zul'jin here.

 

[Hardtime]

Actually, it makes sense to give him long hair since he's been around since the Great Troll War but Im gonna support whatever you decide to do.

 

[Wolffman]

I guess anything goes with the hair here since no one really has a picture of him during the Second War , but I hope you do give him the Fist of Deity (The Glaive weapon). It'll look really epic

 

[Tauer]

Tauer, I must say I love your models, they are the best Orc models I've seen on THW..

A few things though, if you're creating Zul'jin shouldn't he have long hair instead of a mohawk? Unless you were going for the Heroes of the Storm version of Zul'jin of course

Here are the pictures from WoW and an artwork :--

-

Overall, I think you're going great nethertheless, so keep it going and keep it strong

Pretty much this:

He's aiming for a 2nd war era of Zul'jin here.

As Heinvers points out I'm going for the original Zul'jin from Warcraft II. Based on the ingame sprite + artwork. His original look was with mohawk, that's not something they made up in Heroes of the Storm. See following pictures:

The pictures you showed are both from WoW, and I don't know if you know my thoughts toward the game, but I would rather go for the original concepts from the old games and the novels.
Thank you for taking the time to give advice though, I appreciate it

Actually, it makes sense to give him long hair since he's been around since the Great Troll War but Im gonna support whatever you decide to do.

Well, it is possible to cut one's hair
It even seems popular among Trolls, how else would you achieve the mohawk look?

 

[Hardtime]

Oh yeah forgot about the mohwak my bad hehe

 

[Tauer]

Oh yeah forgot about the mohwak my bad hehe

Hehe, no problem mate

Alright, I'm calling it a day for the modelling, moving onto the texturing. Yay

Also, the square planes will be used for texturing decorations, in case you guys thought it looked weird.

 

[Heinvers]

I figured that out, some will be alpha-ed out as I see. You gave him an amulet I see

 

[Tauer]

I figured that out, some will be alpha-ed out as I see. You gave him an amulet I see

Yah, but it wont be jewels hanging from his neck hehe

 

[Wolffman]

Nonetheless, I hope you release it soon as I'm making my second altered melee map featuring the Amani Tribe as a playable and I think your model will go great in it.. Also do you have any new Alliance or Horde Heroes in mind that are in concept mode at the moment?
The minor characters like Drek'Thar or Nazgrel already have appointed models, though In my opinion Nazgrel deserves this model by Deolrin http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...-161649/?prev=search=Orc&d=list&r=200&c=1&t=2

Hope you do Garrosh maybe , a Brown Orc is rare in THW..

 

[Deolrin]

Alright, so I was absent from the thread for a while, sorry about that... I want to say that it's progressing REALLY well, but I'm not sure if the proportions are perfect just yet. I think you should compare your mesh to your Orc models and try to find a way to make Zul'jin taller, leaner and less muscular - since orcs are meant to be brutish and hulking, while trolls are agile and slim(but still fairly strong). Remember that trolls are always hunched over in their animations, which is why they don't seem very tall, but when they stand to their full length I think they can easily reach about 2.5 meters or so - which is probably what most sources refer to as being 'huge'. I like the jewelry idea, and I'm guessing you're going to go with tribal stuff like bones and feathers(which seems very fitting). However, having him throw axes, while accurate to Warcraft 2, is, to be honest, a bit lame. Every other forest troll in the game throws axes(or wields a staff). If you could make him dual-wield the Fist of the Deity in one hand and an axe in the other, that might actually look really interesting - but it might be a bit too strange. I think you should at least give him some kind of thick\large dirk or dagger in his other hand, and give him both melee and ranged animations.
Also, his feet seem too large. They look like he's wearing boots. Trolls only have 2 toes, and those must be some massive toes for him to have such large feet. D:
And finally, probably my biggest complaint is his hair. I know it's more accurate to the concept art and all, but pretty much every other troll model uses that default WC3 mohawk. To be honest, I think at least in this, you should either go for the WoW version or try something original. You can mix the mohawk with some dreads or something, or thin out his hair, because he's supposed to be an older troll, being the leader and all. At least give him a more unique\original mohawk than the default Forest Troll.

 

[Tauer]

Alright, so I was absent from the thread for a while, sorry about that... I want to say that it's progressing REALLY well, but I'm not sure if the proportions are perfect just yet. I think you should compare your mesh to your Orc models and try to find a way to make Zul'jin taller, leaner and less muscular - since orcs are meant to be brutish and hulking, while trolls are agile and slim(but still fairly strong). Remember that trolls are always hunched over in their animations, which is why they don't seem very tall, but when they stand to their full length I think they can easily reach about 2.5 meters or so - which is probably what most sources refer to as being 'huge'. I like the jewelry idea, and I'm guessing you're going to go with tribal stuff like bones and feathers(which seems very fitting). However, having him throw axes, while accurate to Warcraft 2, is, to be honest, a bit lame. Every other forest troll in the game throws axes(or wields a staff). If you could make him dual-wield the Fist of the Deity in one hand and an axe in the other, that might actually look really interesting - but it might be a bit too strange. I think you should at least give him some kind of thick\large dirk or dagger in his other hand, and give him both melee and ranged animations.
Also, his feet seem too large. They look like he's wearing boots. Trolls only have 2 toes, and those must be some massive toes for him to have such large feet. D:
And finally, probably my biggest complaint is his hair. I know it's more accurate to the concept art and all, but pretty much every other troll model uses that default WC3 mohawk. To be honest, I think at least in this, you should either go for the WoW version or try something original. You can mix the mohawk with some dreads or something, or thin out his hair, because he's supposed to be an older troll, being the leader and all. At least give him a more unique\original mohawk than the default Forest Troll.

While I admit, you make some good points, there are also some things I don't agree with.

I see your point that he should be taller, makes sense since trolls are described as very tall. But you also have to remember that there are different kind of trolls. We have to be careful not to compare him with Darkspear trolls, since they are most likely what people are thinking of when thinking of the tall, and slender trolls. Forest trolls are supposed to be way more muscular, at least according to all the lore I've read. You can even see the ingame models for forest trolls (both WC3 and WoW) they are much more bulky than their Darkspear counterparts. Add to this that Zul'jin is their leader, so he's supposed to be the most powerful one, I think it makes sense that he would be buff.
True, I guess I should make the feet a bit smaller, but it's also very important to remember that this is WC3, an RTS. Because of the POV ingame, character models should have very exaggerated proportions (see Arthas' hands, almost twice the size of his head). If they didn't you wouldn't be able to see them clearly from your POV. You have to be careful not to look at these kind of models from a realistic point of view, but instead look at them for what they are - models for an RTS game.
You do have a point though, and I will scale them down a notch.

The weapons - I can appreciate that you find them a bit boring.. To tell the truth, I never really liked forest trolls nor the concept of throwing axes. Yet again, (pre WoW) lore dictates that this is just Zul'jin's weapon of choice. Also, I don't see why the fact that other trolls use this weapon is a reason he shouldn't.. it's simply a well liked weapon among trolls.
Making an alternate attack mode with melee is a really good idea though, and I'll probably do that, but I'm not a fan of his weapon in WoW.

Finally - the one I disagree the most with - the hair. I'm really sorry for my almost fanatic hate for WoW, but I will not, I simply refuse to use the look from WoW. I cannot abide it. His scarf and mohawk are the two most characteristic traits of Zul'jin and this is something I cannot, nor do I wish to, change. I do however see your point that it should be made a little more unique. I did try this by making it fall slightly to the side (as in the concept art) but it is surprisingly difficult to make a mohawk unique. I will try though.

I apologize if I seem to be ranting, it's not that I'm overprotective of my work, there are simply some of your points I disagree with. I do however appreciate you taking the time to come with such detailed input on my model. Thanks!

 

[Heinvers]

since they are most likely what people are thinking of when thinking of the tall, and slender trolls. Forest trolls are supposed to be way more muscular, at least according to all the lore I've read.

You're right there!

so he's supposed to be the most powerful one, I think it makes sense that he would be buff.

Yes

You have to be careful not to look at these kind of models from a realistic point of view, but instead look at them for what they are - models for an RTS game.

Fantasy games always tend (in WC3 case') to exaggerate a bit the body proportions.

but I'm not a fan of his weapon in WoW.

that makes the 2 of us

Finally - the one I disagree the most with - the hair. I'm really sorry for my almost fanatic hate for WoW, but I will not, I simply refuse to use the look from WoW. I cannot abide it. His scarf and mohawk are the two most characteristic traits of Zul'jin and this is something I cannot, nor do I wish to, change.

LOL, yeah, you made your point clear! You're the artist here afterall, like any noteworthy artist, you must make what you like mostly.