Staff Changes(?)

[HINDYhat]

WILL was banned from *chat* for no reason. Then his ban was lifted, and he was again banned for what others said on HIVEchan. And so it was extended to a forum ban when WILL called Ralle a fascist prick I suppose.

In any case, NO. A poll to appoint map moderators would be so wrong. Just look at the "User of the Year 2008" thread: what the users want is not always the right thing.

 

[Bartimaeus]

WILL was banned from *chat* for no reason. Then his ban was lifted, and he was again banned for what others said on HIVEchan. And so it was extended to a forum ban when WILL called Ralle a fascist prick I suppose.

In any case, NO. A poll to appoint map moderators would be so wrong. Just look at the "User of the Year 2008" thread: what the users want is not always the right thing.

What the administrators and moderators want isn't always the right thing, either.

 

[HINDYhat]

100% agreed. But it isn't about what anybody wants. It's about what the site needs.

 

[Bartimaeus]

100% agreed. But it isn't about what anybody wants. It's about what the site needs.

Which isn't necessarily what the Staff wants.

 

[Traxamillion]

100% agreed. But it isn't about what anybody wants. It's about what the site needs.

qft.

 

[Elenai]

For the record the staff does not condemn criticism as long as it is given in a professional, dignified, decent, and amiable way. And in addition, the same rules that apply to a user, apply to a moderator. Since a moderator is by definition a user who has volunteered his time, and received permissions to help run the site.

We are clerks, and police officers, but we are also citizens.

Thank you.

You may continue with your discussion:

 

[PurplePoot]

Just popping in to say two things:

1) lol, wc3edit.net

2) WILL is banned now? It's like crashing one time hasn't gotten the point across, so we have to do it ten more times!

 

[Sergeant Ray]

How long da ban?

 

[~Void~]

He flamed Ralle directly after complaining for about a week, how long do you think? ;]

 

[busterkomo]

lol, wc3edit.net

Indeed. It seems like he's asking to be banned.

Which isn't necessarily what the Staff wants.

True, but generally the administration have a better idea of what the site needs more so than the average user.

 

[Hakeem]

At wc3edit.net, I encourage criticism, because I seek to better myself, rather than let it go unnoticed, simply because people are afraid I will ban them because I'm an administrator. But no, I say if they think something is wrong with me, then they should tell me, so I know.

That's why I like debate and honesty. Isn't honesty just awesome?

100% agreed. But it isn't about what anybody wants. It's about what the site needs.

Actually, it is about what Ralle wants. Luckily, he wants a lot of the stuff the rest of us do.

 

[PurplePoot]

At wc3edit.net, I encourage criticism, because I seek to better myself, rather than let it go unnoticed, simply because people are afraid I will ban them because I'm an administrator. But no, I say if they think something is wrong with me, then they should tell me, so I know.

I might as well start here with the fact that you're an administrator at wc3edit.net.

--

Actually, it is about what Ralle wants. Luckily, he wants a lot of the stuff the rest of us do.

Well, Ralle wants the site to stay afloat.

 

[Vegavak]

Actually, it is about what Ralle wants.

What truly strikes me odd is that criticism is met by moderators with torches and pitchforks, rather than open ears and cooled jets. That criticism is met by Ralle with an immediate ban, because everyone owes him for this website and should be kissing his ass justly.

Because of those reasons, this community is hopeless.

Ralle wants to live his life without being bothered by the site. I can understand that it's a hassle for him, but he needs to come to terms with that and pass the torch on, while retaining ownership. The site would damn well benefit from it.

 

[Ghan_04]

> What truly strikes me odd is that criticism is met by moderators with torches and pitchforks, rather than open ears and cooled jets.

You'll find that the format and context in which the criticism is presented has a great deal to do with how it is received by the staff. Your statement does not describe all instances of criticism.

> That criticism is met by Ralle with an immediate ban

See the previous sentence. The manner of presentation of that criticism was unacceptable.

> Ralle wants to live his life without being bothered by the site.

Ralle wants to continue to improve the site. The staff exists to help him do so, and to give advice and ideas to him about what would help. In fact, every member is able to give advice about what they think would benefit the site.

 

[PurplePoot]

As much as it is of course more so the highly negatively phrased criticism which is met adversely by the staff, criticism in general is not particularly appreciated. It's human nature, but hell, that doesn't mean it's right.

 

[Devine]

@ hindy, then create one in the staff board ...
if you have one off these here ...

 

[Ash]

This post is being kept for a later date.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Yes, and because I'm an adminsitrator at wc3edit.net doesn't make me the almighty devil, or less of a human than the rest of you, and if you think so, then you are a fool, and completely prejudiced.

For the record the staff does not condemn criticism as long as it is given in a professional, dignified, decent, and amiable way. And in addition, the same rules that apply to a user, apply to a moderator. Since a moderator is by definition a user who has volunteered his time, and received permissions to help run the site.

We are clerks, and police officers, but we are also citizens.

Thank you.

You may continue with your discussion:

This post is funny. You will ban anyone who gives you one single negative word in their criticism, but completely ignore anybody who gives criticism without negativity.

 

[PurplePoot]

wc3edit.net

United Warcraft 3 map hacking!

Sounds like a real respectable site, one famous for accomplishing nothing other than ruining the reputations of perfectly good maps by inserting badly coded cheat packs into them.

But the second part of that post has truth.

 

[Bartimaeus]

"wc3edit.net
United Warcraft 3 map hacking!"

Sounds like a real respectable site, one famous for accomplishing nothing other than ruining the reputations of perfectly good maps by inserting badly coded cheat packs into them.

But the second part of that post has truth.

Dekar should SO re-name that to cheating/editing...

We're not ruining the reputations of perfectly good maps. We're ruining our own reputation. The more maps that get cheated, the more infamous we get. It's not like if we cheat a map, somebody will be like, "omgosh dis map r a cheatzors t3h map maeker musta poot sum chetz in dis bad boy"

No, they're going to be like: "omfg stupid cheats...hope wc3edit.net dies in a fire".

Anyways...I agree, (mostly), about badly-coded...only one I can really think of that was actually coded pretty well is Aero's.

(edit) And I thank you for being the first one to see the truth and actually post about it.

 

[Kimbo]

Dekar should SO re-name that to cheating/editing...

We're not ruining the reputations of perfectly good maps. We're ruining our own reputation. The more maps that get cheated, the more infamous we get. It's not like if we cheat a map, somebody will be like, "omgosh dis map r a cheatzors t3h map maeker musta poot sum chetz in dis bad boy"

No, they're going to be like: "omfg stupid cheats...hope wc3edit.net dies in a fire".

Anyways...I agree, (mostly), about badly-coded...only one I can really think of that was actually coded pretty well is Aero's.

(edit) And I thank you for being the first one to see the truth and actually post about it.

Wow.. I just lost respect for you.

 

[Pyritie]

Aaaaaaand we've gotten way off-topic again.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Wow.. I just lost respect for you.

I think the real question is that if any of you had any for me in the first place*. Somehow, I don't think so, and somehow, I really just don't give a crap. I'm trying to help this site, not to destroy it, or convince that wc3edit.net is better, because, no, it's not. It's different. I think it's kind of silly to let the community die because nearly everybody is too blind to see the truth.

Anyways, why? I was just making a point against a point. His point was wrong, so I felt like I needed to correct it. Believe me, I'd rather have us not infamous, and known as a GOOD editing community. But that'll never happen, firstly, because the site would die within a day. Secondly, we'd probably lose some/most of our staff. Thirdly, I would like for it to happen, but I would also dislike it. Stop putting protections on your maps, and maybe we'll stop messing with them,

Rather then lie about it, saying that we're actually not that bad would be a terrible lie, at the very least. We are still not devils. We are still humans, and because we like to enjoy gaming in a different way doesn't make us any less human than you guys. It's not like we're killing people, or stealing property, (all work made by World Editor/for Warcraft 3 is the sole property of Blizzard).

Also, just for the record, I don't play cheated maps.


*The fact that people would make fun of me, and ignore all my points simply DUE TO THE FACT that I'm part of wc3edit.net pretty much convinced me of this.

 

[~Void~]

Another Dusk-esque figure who is trying to help gets ignored due to our stubbornness and condescension. Good job, guys.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Hey, don't associate me with random people I don't know!

I must confess though, I can carry no respect for someone who promotes the alteration of other peoples' maps and intellectual property with neither permission nor regard for the purpose of the original map. In any and all intellectual communities that is the ultimate in no-no's.

Anyways, go look at Ralle's recent announcement. The administration apparently came to a consensus about what to do with the map section. Next order of business?

 

[Mechanical Man]

wc3edit.net

United Warcraft 3 map hacking!

Sounds like a real respectable site, one famous for accomplishing nothing other than ruining the reputations of perfectly good maps by inserting badly coded cheat packs into them.

But the second part of that post has truth.

Who cares about inserting cheats. Thanks to these guys I can now get some sweet models and other imported candies from different maps.

 

[~Void~]

Hey, don't associate me with random people I don't know!

I must confess though, I can carry no respect for someone who promotes the alteration of other peoples' maps and intellectual property with neither permission nor regard for the purpose of the original map. In any and all intellectual communities that is the ultimate in no-no's.

Anyways, go look at Ralle's recent announcement. The administration apparently came to a consensus about what to do with the map section. Next order of business?

My point was, he, like you, was a seemingly random figure who stepped in and tried to lend a hand and was turned away because of his associations with another site.

 

[Pyritie]

My point was, he, like you, was a seemingly random figure who stepped in and tried to lend a hand and was turned away because of his associations with another site.

He didn't have to advertise it like he did.

 

[Bartimaeus]

I must confess though, I can carry no respect for someone who promotes the alteration of other peoples' maps and intellectual property with neither permission nor regard for the purpose of the original map. In any and all intellectual communities that is the ultimate in no-no's.?

The map shouldn't have limited people's learning. Simple as that. Now they're paying for it with creating protections.

Anyways, I don't encourage it. I do, HOWEVER, encourage the recovery of brilliant maps whose author is long gone. I don't give a crap about him/her, and he/she doesn't give a crap about their map, either. So it's all good. For example, last year, I WOULD'VE deprotected EotA, because it's author, DarnYak, hadn't been editing it for quite a long time. However, now that he's back, and working on it, I won't touch it.

(edit) Advertise it? In what way? Saying I'm an administrator from it, so you guys can despise me? Alright, next time, I won't be honest.

 

[Elenai]

________________________

Line drawn, next thing please. As our esteemed Dusk has requested that we do.

 

[SinisteRing]

My point was, he, like you, was a seemingly random figure who stepped in and tried to lend a hand and was turned away because of his associations with another site.

You're connecting his past to his intelligence? You're questioning him because of his background? You might as well be flaming his name. It's like saying your name is Void so everyone who hates DotA should hate you as well and not listen to you because your name is from DotA and if I hate DotA then I hate you. It just doesn't make sense.

Please, listen to people rationally, and look less what's behind them and more what they present to you now. If you don't want to listen to him, you don't deserve Bartimaeus' opinion. Simple as that.

________________________

Line drawn, next thing please. As our esteemed Dusk has requested that we do.

Clever. Let's try to change the topic. An obvious declaration of "I know you're right, but wont admit it."

P.S. Wondering who I am? Damn... I probably shouldn't tell you. Look where it got Bartimaeus and Rising_Dusk...

 

[busterkomo]

Any news on Rui's progress in selecting new map moderators? The site actually seems to have settled down recently. The only thing that seems to need attention is the map section.

 

[Vegavak]

He didn't have to advertise it like he did.

It was more of a proof of credibility/credentials than an advertisement. It's not his fault the majority of users on The Hive can't comprehend half the shit written here.

A lot of the problems I've had with the staff have been from power abuse, or poor comprehension of what was being written/said/discussed.

 

[Elenai]

Vegavak, did I not just draw the line and cut that conversation? Yes I did..

Any power abuse, and what not, shall be discussed in a future thread, not in the current topic: Maps/Criticism. Baby steps...

Back to the topic my little duckies ^_^

Any news on Rui's progress in selecting new map moderators? The site actually seems to have settled down recently. The only thing that seems to need attention is the map section.

 

[PurplePoot]

There's nothing to discuss as to that topic. It's just a "we're waiting for news"... statement.

New topic, in my opinion - not directly staff changes related, but site management related (and relating to a good deal of what has been said in this thread):

Get rid of the "no controversial/potentially offensive discussions in public rule (that is, the one to do with moderator positions, why was I banned, blah blah).

If people will be offended by it, that means that you're doing it wrong. The administration has proved time and time again that admin contact is an effective way of having nothing happen, and having to take discussions into private areas means that opinions cannot be contributed to them.

Beyond that, personal attacks are deleted anyways for the simple reason that they're flaming etc. If someone wants to criticize a moderator in public, it's a good thing: if the moderator isn't doing anything wrong, no harm is done that wouldn't've been done by the troll anyways, and if the moderator is, then there are surely more stories than one, and separating them all is only a way to sweep them under the carpet. Besides, shouldn't the public have the right to be offended when someone supposed to be managing them is screwing around?

Oh, and don't reply with the standard "the site is a dictatorship blah blah blah" comment, as it doesn't make sense: a dictator needs people to dictate, and if everyone leaves in frustration then those people don't exist. Thus, to an extent, in a dictatorship such as this the public still makes a huge amount of the decisions.

 

[Septimus]

Thirdly, I would like for it to happen, but I would also dislike it. Stop putting protections on your maps, and maybe we'll stop messing with them,

At least it provide a temporary shield that prevent inexperience user from deprotect it.
Also, by having the resources open source. Do you know what could happen to it? Plenty of carbon copy map, that's it. CARBON COPY.

And what happen? 1st, bunch of low quality map that kill the joy of user. 2nd, nobody would ever figure out who is the genuine author of the map. Infact, I do not even know who is the origin of the Green Circle TD author. This easily enable some wannabe to claim the credit without any problem.

========================================================

It moderator was flamming, report to admin. If admin was flamming, report to Ralle. If Ralle was flamming, then close 1 eye (Unless you are daring enough). It was quite simple.

 

[Ash]

CARBON COPY, BITCHES.

Sorry, that sounded like a meme. Do you actually understand what a 'Carbon Copy' is? Do you not just mean a 'complete copy'?

Also, anyone who uses a map protector can take their pretentious attitude and shove it.

 

[Gilles]

New topic, in my opinion - not directly staff changes related, but site management related (and relating to a good deal of what has been said in this thread):

Get rid of the "no controversial/potentially offensive discussions in public rule (that is, the one to do with moderator positions, why was I banned, blah blah).

If people will be offended by it, that means that you're doing it wrong. The administration has proved time and time again that admin contact is an effective way of having nothing happen, and having to take discussions into private areas means that opinions cannot be contributed to them.

Beyond that, personal attacks are deleted anyways for the simple reason that they're flaming etc. If someone wants to criticize a moderator in public, it's a good thing: if the moderator isn't doing anything wrong, no harm is done that wouldn't've been done by the troll anyways, and if the moderator is, then there are surely more stories than one, and separating them all is only a way to sweep them under the carpet. Besides, shouldn't the public have the right to be offended when someone supposed to be managing them is screwing around?.

I would agree with you.

The one fear I would have, is users constantly coming forward to question the staff. Questioning the staff is a good thing, but when you are doing it on a consistent basis, everyone loses respect for them. If there aren't enough users with the ability to look at things objectionably and decide if the staff member(s) were at fault or not (more importantly the 'not') you'll have constant dissatisfaction with the staff.

Now, I agree that discussion should be open, and that Admin Contact has proven ineffective, but I wonder if the staff has been questioned a bit too much lately.

 

[Bartimaeus]

At least it provide a temporary shield that prevent inexperience user from deprotect it.
Also, by having the resources open source. Do you know what could happen to it? Plenty of carbon copy map, that's it. CARBON COPY.

And what happen? 1st, bunch of low quality map that kill the joy of user. 2nd, nobody would ever figure out who is the genuine author of the map. Infact, I do not even know who is the origin of the Green Circle TD author. This easily enable some wannabe to claim the credit without any problem.

If it's a noob editing a good map, and this noob makes a low quality map, then what's to worry? It's low quality, and it sucks, and the original is better. That simple. People won't host the low-quality version, they'll host the original. If the noob makes the map better, then, all the better. Like I care who it's from.

(edit) The fact that you guys cannot stop arguing about these two things, even though Elenai has already said next topic, multiple times, pretty much proves it. I know I may not be helping, but I only reply to somebody after they break the next thing, thing.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Also, anyone who uses a map protector can take their pretentious attitude and shove it.

Someone's obviously never made anything worth holding intellectual property over, then.

---

I mostly agree with what Poot's saying, but ultimately he really said nothing. The rule makes sense because if it is offensive then yes, the person is 'doing it wrong'. If they are 'doing it wrong,' then others will respond and continue 'doing it wrong.' That leads nowhere except to people getting pissed off, which boils down to a breach of site rules thus is handled accordingly.

If you 'do it right,' then the topic stays. It is already this way; if it weren't this topic would be long closed and nothing would have come from it. Your point, Poot, really is a moot one. There's really nothing more to be said of it.

 

[PurplePoot]

No it doesn't, Dusk. You aren't allowed to criticize moderators or anything in public, no matter the situation.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Yeah, you really are. You've just got to have some tact in your approach.

 

[PurplePoot]

Well then, you still get told that it belongs in admin contact, at least in my experience of reading this forum.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I think that's because 9 out of 10 people lack the necessary tact to not be a troll in posting their criticism.

 

[Bartimaeus]

I think that's because 9 out of 10 people lack the necessary tact to not be a troll in posting their criticism.

So, you have to have tact to critic the staff? Not many people have tact, which is probably why nothing ever gets reported.

 

[~Void~]

I think that's because 9 out of 10 people lack the necessary tact to not be a troll in posting their criticism.

I'd say nobody can be tactful all the time. Believe it or not, you make trollish comments sometimes, too. Although I think you're already aware of this.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Only when dealing with moderators who don't know their own place or how they should act, let alone how to treat others.

 

[~Void~]

If that was a snipe at me, I suggest you stop.

Otherwise, I think that holds some merit.

 

[Kwah]

So . . . it holds merit when it doesn't apply to you?

Anyhow, this issue has been resolved, no?

 

[~Void~]

That's not what I said; I said not to snipe at me.