"SCII Editor to be MUCH more powerful then WCIII"

[~VanMavus]

Considering the WCIII editor is currently at what I would say one of the best editors released to date, if they actually manage to pull this off and the whole SCII editor is in the scheme of WCIII editor we can expect to see a godlike map array.

Another major problem is the limited amount of creeps, in WCIII if anything, there are TOO many creeps. A huge stack of models that Blizzard made which weren't necessary but add to the fun.

Hopefully we're given the means to import WCIII based models into SCII. That would also add massive power. I'd also like to see WCIII re-created with SCII powerful Havoc engine allowing for god-like gameplay. WCIII me-lee is great but with the abilities the Havoc engine promises and possibly even the ability to "transfer" maps from WCIII into SCII we can expect the game to be amazing. (Transfer meaning, hopefully we can take a WCIII map and run it through a program - Poof - SCII map)

Also we can hope that SCII will be getting a new scripting language, this will hopefully be more powerful then JASS + WCIII GUI together. If people take the time to learn it (which they will) then there are no limits to the amount of creation.

The first thing I'd like to see with the creation of SCII is an ORPG, mainly because the WCIII ORPG's are great, but the ability of the SCII engine allows for so much more depth. The only problem is it will be a future-age RPG, though not limited to that from what I can see there are no tilesets (from pictures) indicating a normal world. It would be nice if we could use WCIII models in SCII to re-create some of the great ORPG's,

Altough another problem will be the modelling. We're going to need to see very high resolution models for the game or it just won't cut it with the rest.

Could you imagine a WCIII unit in the middle of SCII units, it would be ugly to say the least.



Plus, on that point, will the staff at Hive make a "HiveSCWorkshop" and "HiveWCWorkshop". Two different pages for the two, or will you merge SC and WC? Or will you not have SC at all.

I can't wait to hear replies and possible comments about the editor, Hive, Havoc Engine, gameplay and everything else Starcraft.

 

[Kimbo]

All I can see is WCIII and SCII.

Dear god use paragraphs

 

[~VanMavus]

All I can see is WCIII and SCII.

Dear god use paragraphs

Use your moderator power to fix it .

 

[Mechanical Man]

Use your edit thread power to fix it.

 

[Ham Ham]

Will the SCII editor have GUI?

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Yes it will, in some way atleast.

I tried to read the thread but after line 2 all I got was sduihsuihgfasyiSCIIsjuhdasiuhWCIIIhaduh...............

 

[Ham Ham]

Considering the WCIII editor is currently at what I would say one of the best editors released to date, if they actually manage to pull this off and the whole SCII editor is in the scheme of WCIII editor we can expect to see a godlike map array.

Another major problem is the limited amount of creeps, in WCIII if anything, there are TOO many creeps. A huge stack of models that Blizzard made which weren't necessary but add to the fun.

Hopefully we're given the means to import WCIII based models into SCII. That would also add massive power. I'd also like to see WCIII re-created with SCII powerful Havoc engine allowing for god-like gameplay. WCIII me-lee is great but with the abilities the Havoc engine promises and possibly even the ability to "transfer" maps from WCIII into SCII we can expect the game to be amazing. (Transfer meaning, hopefully we can take a WCIII map and run it through a program - Poof - SCII map)

Also we can hope that SCII will be getting a new scripting language, this will hopefully be more powerful then JASS + WCIII GUI together. If people take the time to learn it (which they will) then there are no limits to the amount of creation.

The first thing I'd like to see with the creation of SCII is an ORPG, mainly because the WCIII ORPG's are great, but the ability of the SCII engine allows for so much more depth. The only problem is it will be a future-age RPG, though not limited to that from what I can see there are no tilesets (from pictures) indicating a normal world. It would be nice if we could use WCIII models in SCII to re-create some of the great ORPG's,

Altough another problem will be the modelling. We're going to need to see very high resolution models for the game or it just won't cut it with the rest.

Could you imagine a WCIII unit in the middle of SCII units, it would be ugly to say the least.



Plus, on that point, will the staff at Hive make a "HiveSCWorkshop" and "HiveWCWorkshop". Two different pages for the two, or will you merge SC and WC? Or will you not have SC at all.

Please, copy and paste it on your first post

 

[Massive_attack]

You cannot transfer maps from Wc3 to SC2

You cannot transfer models from Wc3 to SC2

It would be nigh impossible to remake Wc3 into SC2

The havoc engine cant garuntee all that, the only effect ive seen of it in the game is chunks of metal falling. Doesnt mean we can have half life 2 physics.]

A variety of unseen-units are available in the editor, and you can bet there will be more than faction-specific units in the campaing.

As far as i know, its GUI only, not jass, but i dont have anything to back that up.

Knowing Blizzard theyre engine will help make shit models look good/okay, kind of like how Wc3 makes good models look like shit.

THW will most likely make a SC2 models section or have all SC2 models go into this section.

Gameplay is not about individual units or troops, its about swarms of shit killing each other, sometimes with bigger shit helping out. In other words: going to be harder to make ORPGs.

 

[PurplePoot]

In no particular order:

The havoc engine cant garuntee all that, the only effect ive seen of it in the game is chunks of metal falling. Doesnt mean we can have half life 2 physics.]

I'm pretty sure that that's the kind of thing the engine CAN do, and it just depends what Blizzard implements/gives us access to.

As for wc3 models in Sc2, the low polycount would probably make it look awful. There also aren't any tilesets that would look good with wc3 units, so you'd have to redo those too.

I hope they change the JASS syntax, though.

A variety of unseen-units are available in the editor, and you can bet there will be more than faction-specific units in the campaing.

Apparently all the scrapped units and SC1 units will be available, so yeah.

Judging by the above, (and the fact that heroes may have custom models like in wc3), we'll still probably have a respectable selection to pick from.

As far as i know, its GUI only, not jass, but i dont have anything to back that up.

I've heard a lot of things about how the new scripting language will look, etc, so I highly doubt that they'd do that. Also, that'd be (quite frankly) a really stupid decision. Even making it 100% scripting, no GUI, would almost definitely be a better option. Personally, I think I would be likely to quit SC2 modding right on the spot if triggers were GUI only.

Plus, on that point, will the staff at Hive make a "HiveSCWorkshop" and "HiveWCWorkshop". Two different pages for the two, or will you merge SC and WC? Or will you not have SC at all.

I actually brought this up back in May, and it's very likely that THW will support both wc3 and sc2

Linky

I'd also like to see WCIII re-created with SCII powerful Havoc engine allowing for god-like gameplay.

Havok is a physics engine, not a game engine.

Also, from a pure gameplay point of view, if Sc2 was on the Wc3 engine, there would be almost nil actual gameplay difference (assuming the engine could handle a lot of units...). Why do you keep thinking that a new engine will make gameplay 1000x better? Seriously -.-. The engine looks like 99% eyecandy (changed from before) with barely any new features. (no, I'm not talking about Havok, I'm talking about the Sc2 engine)

WCIII me-lee is great but with the abilities the Havoc engine promises and possibly even the ability to "transfer" maps from WCIII into SCII we can expect the game to be amazing.

Very opinionated -.-. I'd

A) much rather vote for them to implement a toggle to use sc1 units/stats
B) tell people like you that frankly... if you want to play wc3, play wc3. If you want to play sc2, play sc2.

Also we can hope that SCII will be getting a new scripting language, this will hopefully be more powerful then JASS + WCIII GUI together.

Jass+GUI? Wait, I'm missing something here, aren't I? You can't add GUI to JASS... That'd be like saying... "Let's hope grade 10 geometry is better for grade 9- geometry + grade 8 geometry". It's totally redundant. GUI is just the weaker elements of JASS, put into a less user-friendly but easier to use form.

The first thing I'd like to see with the creation of SCII is an ORPG, mainly because the WCIII ORPG's are great, but the ability of the SCII engine allows for so much more depth. The only problem is it will be a future-age RPG, though not limited to that from what I can see there are no tilesets (from pictures) indicating a normal world. It would be nice if we could use WCIII models in SCII to re-create some of the great ORPG's,

Honestly, why are you so obsessed with the SC2 engine? >_>. It's not like the engine will magically make ORPGs better. In fact, I expect to see less of them due to the lack of items.

Altough another problem will be the modelling. We're going to need to see very high resolution models for the game or it just won't cut it with the rest.

**high poly >_>

Could you imagine a WCIII unit in the middle of SCII units, it would be ugly to say the least.

Why did you keep talking about how great Wc3 models would be in Sc2, then say that Wc3 units would be ugly in Sc2?







Having attacking while moving should be nice though, among other things. Also, I personally like the combat interface (placement of the attack/etc icons) and the armor systems better in Sc, especially the ability to have armor/weapon types (Carapace, C-10 Canister Rifle, etc) that don't actually relate to the bonuses of the armor/weapon.

 

[Massive_attack]

PP, i know your a mod and all that, but we wont be able to do shit with the havoc engine, stuff will fall on its own, thats about it from what ive seen, its not like in half life 2 where you touch something and it falls at varying speeds, or the ability to manipulate objects ect.

For instance

In half life:
Some dude shoots a rocket at enemy 1. Enemy 1 dies and goes flying, then rag-dolls on the ground, possibly skidding a bit, kicking up dust and particles.

In SC2: at best, enemy 1 explodes and his peices fall to the ground on theyre own.

Ill correct myself on one place though, the water aparently has physics, so falling particles arent the only physics to be had.

 

[PurplePoot]

PP, i know your a mod and all that, but we wont be able to do shit with the havoc engine, stuff will fall on its own, thats about it from what ive seen, its not like in half life 2 where you touch something and it falls at varying speeds, or the ability to manipulate objects ect.

For instance

In half life:
Some dude shoots a rocket at enemy 1. Enemy 1 dies and goes flying, then rag-dolls on the ground, possibly skidding a bit, kicking up dust and particles.

In SC2: at best, enemy 1 explodes and his peices fall to the ground on theyre own.

Ill correct myself on one place though, the water aparently has physics, so falling particles arent the only physics to be had.

What does being a mod have to do with anything...? x.x

On the other hand, it's an RTS, but also, where do you have confirmation that we won't have access to the Havok engine in any way?

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

You don't mess with engines, you don't edit them. However, they might include options, such as varying speeds and the like, or even turn it off completly.

 

[Turtles]

What does being a mod have to do with anything...? x.x

i think it means hes afraid of you. haha.

In half life:
Some dude shoots a rocket at enemy 1. Enemy 1 dies and goes flying, then rag-dolls on the ground, possibly skidding a bit, kicking up dust and particles.

In SC2: at best, enemy 1 explodes and his peices fall to the ground on theyre own.

Half-life is a very detailed game, with a very good physics engine. they even improved that engine in cs:s. Sc2 will not be designed that way. it's not that type of game.

 

[PurplePoot]

You don't mess with engines, you don't edit them. However, they might include options, such as varying speeds and the like, or even turn it off completly.

Yeah, that's what I meant - that possibly Jass3 or whatever the heck the scripting language for Sc2 is called may have functions to control aspects of the Havok engine.

And I seriously don't see why me being a mod should make you any different when it comes to debating or discussing facts and opinions with me (or anything else! (except flaming, of course, but you shouldn't flame anyone anyways))... I mean, it's not like I'm going to neg rep you because we disagree on how much access to Havok we think custom maps in Sc2 will have >_>

 

[Massive_attack]

I know a few admins at other Wc3 sites that might *COUGH WC3C COUGH*

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

And I seriously don't see why me being a mod should make you any different when it comes to debating or discussing facts and opinions with me (or anything else! (except flaming, of course, but you shouldn't flame anyone anyways))... I mean, it's not like I'm going to neg rep you because we disagree on how much access to Havok we think custom maps in Sc2 will have >_>

Mod rhymes with Todd. Todd starts with a T. Mr. T pities the fool. Therefore, all mods think everyone else is a fool.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Tyranid]

Just to make things clear for people who come here asking about the "unseen units" in the map editor they are these (some are speculation, althought really likely):
-Lost units from SC 1 (Blizz confirmed Dragoon and Firebat, I hope all of the will be in).
-Scrapped units from SC 2 (Soul Hunter, Tempest(replaced with carrier) and reaver(Blizz thought that the Colossus fills the reaver's role))
-Hero units from the Campaign. This time they will most likely have unique models, atleast the big ones, or that's atleast what I'm expecting. These are the SC 1 type heroes (more powerful "normal" units with special skills now), not WC 3 heroes.
-Campaign only units.
-Hidden units (this is a MAYBE, I remember blizz saying something like this but not sure)

Other things about the editor:
-It has the WC 3 hero system.
-Yeah you can add custom models created for SC 2.
-New scripting language.

 

[PurplePoot]

-It has the WC 3 hero system.

Link?

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

There are single-player heroes, and I'm pretty sure they'll work like the wc3 versions.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

Link?

They have said it several times, im suprised you havent read it.
They said it wouldnt be for melee (campaing\editor only) and I dubt there is going to be as many heros..

"2) Will StarCraft II Heroes have unique abilities?

Heroes will have unique abilities different from regular unit abilities. Heroes will be playable only for single player and will not be a part of the multiplayer skirmish experience."
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=18850&s=new?new
Theres other places were it was said, but I dont have links to them...

 

[PurplePoot]

There are single-player heroes, and I'm pretty sure they'll work like the wc3 versions.

There are single player heroes, the wc3 part is what I want a link for.

"2) Will StarCraft II Heroes have unique abilities?

Heroes will have unique abilities different from regular unit abilities. Heroes will be playable only for single player and will not be a part of the multiplayer skirmish experience."

Of course I've read that. StarCraft had heroes too, that weren't at all like the wc3 system, but still were different (than normal units), with different ability mixes, anyways.

Eg. The mothership would, in the initial build, make a good campaign Protoss capital ship hero, but not in the Wc3 sense.


You people need to stop associating "Hero" with the wc3 type only >_>

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

You people need to stop associating "Hero" with the wc3 type only >_>

There isn't any other type to care about. The starcraft type is somewhat of a "no duh" type of thing.

 

[PurplePoot]

Well then, you're confusing yourself, because not everyone on battle.net is referring to Heroes in the wc3 sense.

 

[Tyranid]

*SIGH* Just to CLEAR THINGS UP the Campaign has the SC 1 hero system, in other words they are pretty much just a normal unit with more stats. Althought I guess now that it's 3d they have unique models an also this time they have special abilities.

The WC 3 Hero system is in the MAP EDITOR for CUSTOM MAPS ONLY! It will NOT be in the CAMPAIGN nor in MELEE.

 

[Ham Ham]

I dont care about heroes.
I just want to know if the Sc2 Editor will be such the War3 World Editor: Easy, Powerfull and Flexible.

 

[PurplePoot]

The WC 3 Hero system is in the MAP EDITOR for CUSTOM MAPS ONLY! It will NOT be in the CAMPAIGN nor in MELEE.

Still awaiting a link for that. There's lots of speculation, but as far as I know nothing has been confirmed.

*SIGH* Just to CLEAR THINGS UP the Campaign has the SC 1 hero system, in other words they are pretty much just a normal unit with more stats. Although I guess now that it's 3d they have unique models an also this time they have special abilities.

Well, I don't think they confirmed how hero mechanics for Single Player will work, but MP will definitely not have heroes, it appears (and so I hope...)

 

[Tyranid]

Still awaiting a link for that. There's lots of speculation, but as far as I know nothing has been confirmed.

You know what? I can't be assed to find you a DAMN LINK! Instead start monitoring the Battle.net SC 2 FORUMS! There a blizzard employee (think it was Karune) OFFICIALLY STATED THAT THE WC 3 HERO SYSTEM WILL BE IN THE MAP EDITOR!

Seriously, every time I post something like this here everyone is "LINK LINK LINK" even thought they most probably find it in the B.net SC 2 forums.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

You know what? I can't be assed to find you a DAMN LINK! Instead start monitoring the Battle.net SC 2 FORUMS! There a blizzard employee (think it was Karune) OFFICIALLY STATED THAT THE WC 3 HERO SYSTEM WILL BE IN THE MAP EDITOR!

Seriously, every time I post something like this here everyone is "LINK LINK LINK" even thought they most probably find it in the B.net SC 2 forums.

Ok, let me get this right:

1- Everybody wants to know about heros in sc2
2- Everybody wants a link to where it was stated.
3- The link is easy to find.
4- You are getting madish because people keep asking you.

So let me ask you....if its so easy to find why dont you find it and link to it????

 

[PurplePoot]

I keep looking through the Q&As and such, turning up no support for your claims, so if it's so easy to find a link would be appreciated.

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Ok, let me get this right:

1- Everybody wants to know about heros in sc2
2- Everybody wants a link to where it was stated.
3- The link is easy to find.
4- You are getting madish because people keep asking you.

So let me ask you....if its so easy to find why dont you find it and link to it????

He never SAID it was that easy. It's like when you look at a site and forget the link to it, but a few months later you're looking for it... x5. Furthermore, if people ask that many times, it would be annoying, easy link or not.

 

[PurplePoot]

Well then, if you don't have proof, please don't say you're sure of it. If you do have proof, by all means do (but show the proof )

Oh, and I did a search of all Blizzard Rep posts... no results supporting your claims.

 

[Massive_attack]

Blizzard has said this: There will be heroes in the editor.

While "heroes* can mean anything, it still gives up a hope/chance to have them in.

Furthermore, i have only heard that heroes will not be in melee, and have nothing supporting your claims either.

The simple fact is we dont know and blizz wont say, thats just the way it is.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

He never SAID it was that easy. It's like when you look at a site and forget the link to it, but a few months later you're looking for it... x5. Furthermore, if people ask that many times, it would be annoying, easy link or not.

Yes, but he shoudnt complain that we arent finding it if he himself isnt either.

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Would you kindly read the Q&A Ralle posted. There WILL be heroes in singleplayer campaigns, but not in multiplayer.

What is the role of heroes in StarCraft II? Will they be the same as in StarCraft?

StarCraft II campaign heroes will fulfill roles similar to what appeared in the original StarCraft single player experience, but they will have even more unique abilities from standard units, and will be more innovatively integrated into the story campaign. Heroes will not be buildable in multiplayer.

 

[HeretoDLstuff]

Would you kindly read the Q&A Ralle posted near the bottom half. There WILL be heroes in singleplayer campaigns, but not in multiplayer.

Yes, but define Heros....>.>

How about leveling up? Leveling up abilitys? They only said there would be heros with abiltiys, but not ecaxty like wc3..

 

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

They say "heroes". It will probably include some kind of extreme vetrancy system.

 

[PurplePoot]

Blizzard has said this: There will be heroes in the editor.

While "heroes* can mean anything, it still gives up a hope/chance to have them in.

Furthermore, i have only heard that heroes will not be in melee, and have nothing supporting your claims either.

The simple fact is we dont know and blizz wont say, thats just the way it is.

My claims are that we have no proof if they will/won't have wc3 heroes, so what you just said actually does support my claims

They say "heroes". It will probably include some kind of extreme vetrancy system.

StarCraft had heroes without a veterancy system or anything else, so it's really 50/50 here.

 

[Tyranid]

Ok, let me get this right:

1- Everybody wants to know about heros in sc2
2- Everybody wants a link to where it was stated.
3- The link is easy to find.
4- You are getting madish because people keep asking you.

So let me ask you....if its so easy to find why dont you find it and link to it????

1= And Karune answered that stuff on the Forums.
2= You know how damn HARD it is to find that old topic from the forums!? It was a really old topic where Karune came to answer and now the topic seemingly died.
3= No, it isn't easy to find, IT'S A REAL PAIN to find it.
4= Other people could also monitor the B.net forums.

 

[PurplePoot]

1= And Karune answered that stuff on the Forums.

No he didn't, I searched all Blizz. Poster posts (just go to search and select Blizzard Search), both SC2 forums + all SC forums, no results in your favor.

 

[LordDz]

Gief a link and what page and we shall see

 

[Tyranid]

What is the role of heroes in StarCraft II? Will they be the same as in StarCraft?

StarCraft II campaign heroes will fulfill roles similar to what appeared in the original StarCraft single player experience, but they will have even more unique abilities from standard units, and will be more innovatively integrated into the story campaign. Heroes will not be buildable in multiplayer.

That's what Karune said about heroes a LOOONG time ago. I'm still looking for the thing about WC 3 heroes in the map editor (AKA SCUMEdit for now atleast) that Karune said.

 

[Massive_attack]

Ok so then that means: No item system i bet. A Wc3 styled Hero gets better in 1 lvl, stays the same in another. A super-unit system with a few custom abilities and (i think) a custom model.

Overall not bad, i was hoping for inventory though.

 

[Jaakko]

My consern is that will there be any cinematics inside maps? :/ I wouldn't like item system in scifi as much as in Warcraft.
EDIT: And btw the max player count in multiplayers should be more than 12, let's say 30. That would be a lot of fun. Depends only I guess how powerful the game engine is that how many units it can handle.

 

[PurplePoot]

It's currently 8, from what I remember from some old Q&A, no guarantees though. (I recall them saying "Same as the original")

 

[Jaakko]

8? Oh that's even worse than 12.

 

[PurplePoot]

Found it, scroll down to the first question of Batch 5

http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=1&p=1&#post1

 

[Jaakko]

The yellow minerals are a really good addition and they will make the level design of a melee map more interesting and strategic.

 

[Massive_attack]

Yeah i think yellow minerals are in fact a good idea. not only does it add more tact to reasource wars, it also looks preety too.

 

[Jaakko]

I think I would want to do a 2v2 melee map first.

 

[LordDz]

I will make a map about 2 Zerglings.. One Wc3-hero style and the other SC1/2 hero style..