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Reforged code is broken lazy mess. Beware

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Level 14
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The Entire game has been overly easy and Hyjal Really sent out red flags. I never got pushed out of human base and they only had 400 unit deaths and NINE Hero deaths. They NEVER sent 2 heroes at once.

After 10 minutes EVERY WAVE is supposed to have a HERO and it DOES in Classic

This might be fine for someone who never played warcraft ever but it irks the shit out of me.

Also Anetheron like Tichondrius only summons TWO Infernals with his special NOT Four

Oh and archimond is only level 1 and lacks items aka, Ankh , Gem of true seeing, Ring +5, Crown Ect. he also has no abilites so he cant spawn a shitton of infernals , doomguards, or finger of death anymore.
sure archimonde can "level" in the mission but he doesnt train abilties

I played Reforged Hyjal twice then went back to my 1.31.1 PTR Classic install sure enough Mega waves.


Classic team CLEARLY has no business touching RTS when it was the OLD Blizzard that was built upon RTS designed and balanced this game in an era of Starcraft Brood war, WC2 , and WC3

I have even less faith then I had earlier in the week for the future of this game.

TLDR: Hard Mode RoC Final Mission Stayed in Human base 45 mins no cheats

Reforged
Battle for Mount Hyjal: Unit Kills 384 Hero kills 9
Classic
Battle for Mount Hyjal: Unit Kills 772 Hero kills 29

New Graphics doesnt compensate for BUTCHERED gameplay

@Shar Dundred @tomoraider @LordPerenoldeII @Razorclaw_X @Turnro @OutsiderXE @deepstrasz @Kam @Tauer



EDIT:

Thread name changed. This discussion has evolved

The game a mess under the hood.
 
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Level 14
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Really sad that this isn't getting any attention on the forums/reddit/youtube videos/gaming sites etc. when it is in my opinion one of the most egregious things about the whole Reforged project.
hi just finshed the enitre mission check the classic mission stats. its bad

also THOSE people havnt been playing warcraft for 18 years. those people are right here.

Apparently they gave Anetheron a Frost orb too? They cant even get that right. Hes supposed to have lightning Orb.


If they enable custom campaigns im Gonna upload those campaiigns i downloaded that are vanilla campaigns with 1.31.1 tuning. At least its vanilla maps cutscenes and voices non this HELLSCREAM! Bullshit. Grom blizzard. His name has been Grom for 25 fucking years. and at least it didnt butcher the enemy attack patterns. So it by default is vastly superior. Oh and it isnt affected by fucked bugs like broken hero inventory.

I played them all start of January.
 
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Classic team CLEARLY has no business touching RTS when it was the OLD Blizzard that was built upon RTS designed and balanced this game in an era of Starcraft Brood war, WC2 , and WC3

Ironically, the lead designer of Reforged was a campaign level designer on the original Warcraft III.
 
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like every other game the new hard mode was the previous normal all the game have the same system for single player bah
 
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I've been playing the Classic version of the campaign and the biggest problem I've had so far was trying to break the giant gate doodads.

It turned out if I set the hotkeys to Grid layout 'Attack' is just plain no longer 'A' like muscle memory would have it.
 
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Level 14
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I've been playing the Classic version of the campaign and the biggest problem I've had so far was trying to break the giant gate doodads.

It turned out if I set the hotkeys to Grid layout 'Attack' is just plain no longer 'A' like muscle memory would have it.

yeah i hate it not being A either. was like what. zxcv abilites R attack 1234 ctrl groups... wtf blizzard?
why we didnt get Starcraft hotkey in game mapping is beyond me. Probably was too difficult while they were chopping out Vanilla WCTFT features.

Grom... sorry HELLSCREAM got his inventory back in Cenarius level pre Chaos.
Tyrande in Nelf Misison 2 still has no inventory on reforge classic though.
 
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I was looking into differences between reforged hard and 1.27 hard after reading your post.

RoC Human campaing hasn't got any differencies except infamous culling mission.

Here's what I've found at Exodus mission 4

zrOyihkN__E.jpg
QTEyH9r9iLg.jpg

Also, as it seems like, you can't look into enemy heroes inventory anymore, right?
I'm not aware, but is this the same for multiplayer too?
 
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yeah i hate it not being A either. was like what. zxcv abilites R attack 1234 ctrl groups... wtf blizzard?
I didn't find it to be a huge issue - the bigger problem is that they didn't even bother to have a nice in-game hotkey customization for people who want to change things. That's just lazy.
 
Level 20
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I was looking into differences between reforged hard and 1.27 hard after reading your post.

RoC Human campaing hasn't got any differencies except infamous culling mission.

Here's what I've found at Exodus mission 4

zrOyihkN__E.jpg
QTEyH9r9iLg.jpg

Also, as it seems like, you can't look into enemy heroes inventory anymore, right?
I'm not aware, but is this the same for multiplayer too?
Not being able to see the Inventory is a RoC thing. It wasn't made a feature until TFT came out. That's why sometimes you could see a Hero carrying some weird stuff.
 
Level 29
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I haven't played the Reforged campaign. Could that just be a bug that Hard mode somehow selects Normal (like custom campaigns do) or is it confirmed? Is Normal mode even easier?

I saw some videos, and honestly, I was annoyed by some useless detail changes (Grom among others) and worse audio, and I was thinking the community could create a proper Reforged version. Only problem might be agreeing on which changes might actually make it into a community Reforged version.
 
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I keep reading about Grom changes.
What are they?
From what I've seen on youtube, they seem to be quite identical as in RoC.
 
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unfortunately no reforged ALL maps have their own balance and tuning its even if you read 1.32 live patch notes they say balance changes to reforged. Apparently that didnt just mean TFT changes to RoC
I haven't played the Reforged campaign. Could that just be a bug that Hard mode somehow selects Normal (like custom campaigns do) or is it confirmed? Is Normal mode even easier?

I saw some videos, and honestly, I was annoyed by some useless detail changes (Grom among others) and worse audio, and I was thinking the community could create a proper Reforged version. Only problem might be agreeing on which changes might actually make it into a community Reforged version.

Read the first part

Campaigns

  • Restored three prologue missions from the original Warcraft III Demo: Riders on the Storm, The Fires Down Below, and Countdown to Extinction.
  • Updated terrain, mission difficulty, and added auto-saves for all missions.
  • Updated art and layout of major cities from three of Warcraft’s iconic cities: Dalaran, Silvermoon, and Stratholme.
  • Updated all campaign characters and visual assets.
Another balance change is the murloc prologue missions. Well there are no more glaive bouncing murlocs. Also on the final mission less towers in enemy bases less golem waves and the bottom two bases dont have murloc sorceror heroes at all which could devistate you with rain of fire along with his siege /chaos golem escorts

The flesheaters and tidehunters also have vastly reduced HP i think the flesheaters used to have 700? Its like 300 now. Granted that mission was pretty nuts for prologue#5 in classic especially if u tried to destroy based. I mean its harder then Frostmourn level by a mile.

I HATE the auto saves and i cant believe you cant turn them off if u play entire campaign you have a folder of like 300 saves.

Like we have manual save and a quicksave button this was NOT needed.

They did a lot of quirky changes. For instance in Dissension the level where Arthas burns his ships. They turned the goblin night scope. Honestly a pretty trash item into +2 strength tome. Why? Who knows!


I keep reading about Grom changes.
What are they?
From what I've seen on youtube, they seem to be quite identical as in RoC.
No one says the name Grom its replaced with a cut in voice of HELLSCREAM its like those movies that go on basic tv and change swear words and it sounds really out of place and diff tone. Thats what they did. Watch prologue level 2 opening for reforged
 
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I HATE the auto saves and i cant believe you cant turn them off if u play entire campaign you have a folder of like 300 saves.
I think they're nice as an option, but I agree - you should be able to turn that off and... overall, there should be less of them. Having a checkpoint literally every couple of minutes is too much - I could except one or two per mission in some key moments, but the frequency they went with is... excessive.
 
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SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG WITH THIS GAME
Noticed that as well... I don't know what they've done, but I guess there might be something broken with unsummoning. Perhaps make a quick map in the editor and check if it's just this campaign map or is it a general issue?

P.S. Bonus points for showing that when they updated the hippogryph model, they didn't bother to update the icons :D
 
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Noticed that as well... I don't know what they've done, but I guess there might be something broken with unsummoning. Perhaps make a quick map in the editor and check if it's just this campaign map or is it a general issue?

P.S. Bonus points for showing that when they updated the hippogryph model, they didn't bother to update the icons :D

speaking of icons i cant even tell you which one is tyrande and malfurion seriously

I don't know what the hell they did but it feels like there might be invisible units or something that simply cant interact why else would their units rally like this. it only does it when rallied on an OBJECT not open space.

I never see Rage winterchill only rarely. Anetheon actually resses when you're at the Orc base from altar and comes to fight but idk. something is broken i just cant fathom what or how.

WC3ScrnShot_020520_102326_001.png
 
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Also, pointing out that the new map script is a MESS, if you open the editor in the Dalaran Invasion mission that was remaked (and also have a TERRIBLE terrain), you can see they are using lazy coding in the attack triggers.

I noticed this because after the first wave attacked my base and died I revived them with Arthas ultimate order to attack back and the moment they enter in a region they were ordered to attack move to my base.

They forgot to account for Arthas ultimate when coding this.

This is the trigger:

upload_2020-2-5_13-32-0.png
 
Level 20
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I don't know what the hell they did but it feels like there might be invisible units or something that simply cant interact why else would their units rally like this. it only does it when rallied on an OBJECT not open space.
This is seriously strange - alas, I don't think I saw that when I played this mission.

I never see Rage winterchill only rarely. Anetheon actually resses when you're at the Orc base from altar and comes to fight but idk. something is broken i just cant fathom what or how.
That as well, I saw Rage pretty often.

I noticed this because after the first wave attacked my base and died I revived them with Arthas ultimate order to attack back and the moment they enter in a region they were ordered to attack move to my base.
Me right now:

avatar_027f9dcb25a6_128.pnj
 
Level 3
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I haven't played the Reforged campaign. Could that just be a bug that Hard mode somehow selects Normal (like custom campaigns do) or is it confirmed? Is Normal mode even easier?

I saw some videos, and honestly, I was annoyed by some useless detail changes (Grom among others) and worse audio, and I was thinking the community could create a proper Reforged version. Only problem might be agreeing on which changes might actually make it into a community Reforged version.

YES, please. You could definitely do an immensely better job at Reforging the campaigns. Just look at The Fall of Silvermoon reforged. It's so bland and cringey, a souless husk of a city.
 
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Also, pointing out that the new map script is a MESS, if you open the editor in the Dalaran Invasion mission that was remaked (and also have a TERRIBLE terrain), you can see they are using lazy coding in the attack triggers.

I noticed this because after the first wave attacked my base and died I revived them with Arthas ultimate order to attack back and the moment they enter in a region they were ordered to attack move to my base.

They forgot to account for Arthas ultimate when coding this.

This is the trigger:

View attachment 346330

This is just sad.

As said no hope for reforge. There is a reason these people kept breaking our game from 1.29 all the way to the loved 1.31 and then what we are dealing with now.'

They don't know what they are doing with RTS games doesnt help they didnt DESIGN the original game in the first place

I think, they're hidden, invisible or something.
i was watching ghouls deliver lumber to the non existant graveyard

EDIT:

Thread name changed. With the recent revelations this goes beyond a simple questionable difficulty.

The game is a mess that much is clear. we need to dig deeper
 
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Level 6
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I have been debating whether the buy the game, and I am so glad I didn't waste the money. Sorry to hear about everyone's horrible experiences.

What they should have done is a real Warcraft 4, exclude any lore that constitutes the MMORPG-forced-WoW-nonsense, and continue telling the stories. At least then it would not be a bastardization of a legendary game, and rather something that needs serious refinement and tweaking and more respect for skilled/veteran players.

Too bad Blizzard doesn't (seem to) pay much attention to sites like...oh I dunno... THE HIVE... because some of the best custom campaigns for Wc3 are HERE.
 

deepstrasz

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What they should have done is a real Warcraft 4, exclude any lore that constitutes the MMORPG-forced-WoW-nonsense, and continue telling the stories. At least then it would not be a bastardization of a legendary game, and rather something that needs serious refinement and tweaking and more respect for skilled/veteran players.
Warcraft IV would (have) be(en) a financial risk in a time where RTS doesn't appeal anymore and with most Warcraft players being drawn to WoW.
 
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This all frustrates me quite a bit.
The more i look into reforged, the more my disbelief grows.

Is there a reasonable alternative to wc3 + editor?
Age of empires 2 definitive edition is really well made, but lacks quite some features sadly.
 
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Warcraft IV would (have) be(en) a financial risk in a time where RTS doesn't appeal anymore and with most Warcraft players being drawn to WoW.

Why the perception that RTS does not appeal anymore, though? I know a lot people have played WoW and continue to play WoW, but what about the people replaying SC, continuing to play SC2, and continuing to mod the Classic Wc3?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that in their minds, a Wc3 reforged was the best financial decision at the time - the only problem is, the real Warcraft fans seem to see Reforged for what it is - with early bugs/glitches aside, a cheap knock-off with little thought put into it.
 

deepstrasz

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Is there a reasonable alternative to wc3 + editor?
Age of empires 2 definitive edition is really well made, but lacks quite some features sadly.
I don't know. Haven't delved too much into other games and their editors, in detail, I mean.
For instance Heroes of Might & Magic V has a nice editor but the triggering is abysmal in that it's mostly code. Even uglier is Armies of Exigo's and Command & Conquer: Generals'.

Age of Mythology has a lovely editor which you can use to make cinematic scenes and stuff.

But alas, nothing compares to the might and beauty of the World Editor...

know a lot people have played WoW and continue to play WoW, but what about the people replaying SC, continuing to play SC2, and continuing to mod the Classic Wc3?
They are fewer than needed for purchases and stuff compared to AoS/MOBA, shooters, MMORPGs, ARPGs and whatnot.
 
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I tried to raise similar issues on reddit but didn't get any responses.

Anyone else notice that the difficulties have also been broken? : warcraft3

I haven't seen anyone post about this yet (though I may have just missed it since there are 999 problems with Reforged) so I thought I would.

Not going to discuss Story Mode because I don't care about it. I am fine with it being included, but my issue is that now Normal and Hard have been broken.

In Normal, the enemy always has a roughly 25% handicap which means that enemy units have their health reduced by approximately 25%. I tested this in the prologue campaign and in the ROC human campaign. Enemy footmen have about 316 hp and enemy grunts have about 600 hp.

I found this really stupid and annoying. Normal was already casual, but at exactly the right level because I would usually play on normal unless I felt switched on enough for the hard challenge. Now, I feel like I was being forced into Hard unless I wanted to play an infantilized game experience.

But wait, there is more. I switched to Hard difficulty and started Chapter 4: The Cult of the Damned. What do I find? The Hard enemy AI CHEATS.

How did I confirm this? As I was attacking the enemy base, I targeted acolytes to prevent repairing... and once they were dead the necropolis created 5 acolytes at once to instant replace them. WTF?

So, apparently, Normal was too easy and needed a nerf, but Hard was not difficult enough and the only way they could think to make it harder was to make the AI cheat?

In conclusion: Normal as a difficulty has been removed (now it's easy) and Hard has been amped up to AI Cheats levels.

Absolute fucking fail, but given the context I am not surprised.

This is just what I had noticed at the time. Warcraft 3 has been utterly ruined for me.
 
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Level 14
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Might need to play last tft mission

If im understanding this activating pillars nukes base . Wtf?
Screenshot_20200205-142951_Chrome.jpg


People shout them down and say its TFT balance. Aka they arent intelligent enough to listen and think thats bbn ot the case

I tried to raise similar issues on reddit but didn't get any responses.

Anyone else notice that the difficulties have also been broken? : warcraft3



This is just what I had noticed at the time. Warcraft 3 has been utterly ruined for me.


I almost guarantee Reforge "hard mode" is old normal with no handicap.

why make 3 different AI personalites when you can just slide a Handicap meter.


GOing to test HYJAL NORMAL Classic.
 
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Level 8
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I don't think it's that simple. I saw the computer cheating on Hard mode so while maybe the handicap is on 100% they also did some other stupid shit that has made it even worse.

The computer magically spawning 5 acolytes at once whenever it notices that there are zero acolytes is just frustrating and annoying bullshit, and not at all an interesting increase in challenge.

I have been playing the campaign, but I still haven't done most of it because it has been a painful and annoying experience for the most part. Especially because Normal has been nerfed into retardation and Hard just requires more focus than I like to give when playing casually.

Edit: although I could be wrong about the 5 acolytes spawning thing. In light of reviewing what others have said, like what has happened with the Hyjal mission, it's possible that it was a bug or just bad design which I mistook for something they intentionally did to make the difficulty harder.
 
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Apparently on Classic Hyjal Normal they still send double hero ultimate waves at you and a hero in almost ever single wave hard difficulty just amps up the infernal and doomguard /wagon count and gives anetheron Rain of CHaos. Who knows wtf they did.
WC3ScrnShot_020520_150442_01.png

ANYWAY once they enable customs well just play custom campaing of the exact same classic campaign but with reforged assets and not their broken ass tuning pretty much the way we all wanted to if we had an interest in the new models.

a side effect is we get the benefits of the OLD cutscenes, and OLD non butchered voice acting, AND less/no bugs

i played all these this last january and it was a delight
Classic campaign pack updated for 1.30.2! : WC3 everything in campaign uses 1.30.2 tuning.
Play MORE Campaign missions against your friends! : WC3 Play as the Enemy!

This guy is pretty cool
 
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Hello, everyone. I haven't played classic campaign intentionally for like the past year and a half so I can experience it through Reforged. Today I finished the whole RoC + TFT campaign on Hard difficulty except The Founding of Durotar, which I haven't started yet, but I saw posts regarding a bug for the 2nd chapter where it does not take into account the completion of that chapter, hence no achievement and no portrait. I have beaten the campaign on Hard difficulty years ago and the way I remember it, the Frozen Throne campaign was very challenging, especially the Legacy of the Damned part. After my playthrough on Reforged, I must say it felt a lot easier than I remembered it, considering the fact that I forgot a lot of stuff about the missions. I am going to list the differences I noticed with the Reforged campaign (Hard difficulty):
  • Just to clear this out of the way - obviously the Culling of Stratholme, The Fall of Silvermoon and The Siege of Dalaran have been altered, but that's not the issue(s) I want to talk about.

  • Most missions, like for example The Siege of Dalaran and Twilight of the Gods were indeed easier. I barely saw Rage Winterchill in the last RoC mission.

  • By Demons be Driven is a lot harder, and while I do like to have harder missions, in this case I don't mean harder in a good way - once the Infernals cinematic finished 3 Infernals instantly landed in the middle of my base. After I finished them I saw Jaina's Northern part of her base was gone with Infernals and Fel (Chaos) Orcs overrunning her. What's worse is that the Jaina AI never revived Jaina after she died (yes she had the resources for it). In Classic, as far as I remember, Jaina could hold on her own, and if she was killed the AI would revive her at the Altar.

  • Shard of the Alliance was surprisingly easy - I took the right path through the Undead bastion. I remember when I played this mission in Classic I had to revert to my save right at the end multiple times because I was either losing Maiev / Tyrande, Kael was dying or his magical wagons got destroyed. In Reforged I barely broke a sweat. Also in the ending cinematic where the bridge collapses and Tyrande falls is not done properly.

  • The hidden Little Timmy area in King Arthas is not "hidden". In the classic game different kind of trees are used which conceals the area pretty good. The first couple of times I played this mission back in the day I couldn't find it.

  • A New Power in Lordaeron was also a cakewalk - I even took out the orange and green Undead bases before I did the optional objective and destroyed Balnazzar's base. The main issue on this one was that throughout the whole mission the green Undead did not attack Garithos' base not even once. The Human was attacked only by Balnazzar. The orange Undead launched it's first attack really late with a few gargoyles. The second attack came with wagons and necromancers, I believe, although I was already camping at their base entrance with an army of Frost Wyrms... yes I had the time to get an army of Frost Wyrms before the second orange Undead attack. Balnazzar did not attack my base for the whole game until I finally broke the city gate. Right after I broke it with my Frost Wyrms, Balnazzar himself went to my base, while I flooded his from the South with mass Knights and the rescued Dwarfs from the optional quest and beat him.

  • The Forgotten Ones and Ascent to the Upper Kingdom were way, way easier than I remember them to be. When I played this back in classic, I remember I had to restart a million times to beat Ascent to the Upper Kingdom.

  • A Symphony of Frost and Flame - my favorite mission has also received changes. Although I consider them to be for the better. If you open the classic map, you'll notice there are disabled triggers for damaging buildings through earthquakes that occur whenever Illidan or Arthas captures an obelisk. These have been enabled for the Reforged version - every time Illidan captures an obelisk your buildings will suffer damage, every time Arthas captures an obelisk - the enemy buildings will suffer damage. I personally like this change as it makes the mission more interesting, the way they initially intended it to be, back in the day. However, that's not the only thing that makes the mission harder. The way Illidan's army works is at first he'll have weaker army composition with him, but after you kill him 2 times he'll start massing Couatl and will have Naga Royal Guards with him. In classic with an army of 3-4 Crypt Fiends, 5-6 Abominations and 6 Frost Wyrms I am able to destroy Illidan's escort fairly easy while he's busy channeling an obelisk, even with his tough army composition. In Reforged I get completely destroyed, and it gets worse after Illidan captures the obelisk and joins the fight... if I ever get that far.
These are the ones that come to mind now. There are probably more changes I forgot to mention or missed while playing.
 
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Level 2
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Apparently on Classic Hyjal Normal they still send double hero ultimate waves at you and a hero in almost ever single wave hard difficulty just amps up the infernal and doomguard /wagon count and gives anetheron Rain of CHaos. Who knows wtf they did.
View attachment 346344

ANYWAY once they enable customs well just play custom campaing of the exact same classic campaign but with reforged assets and not their broken ass tuning pretty much the way we all wanted to if we had an interest in the new models.

a side effect is we get the benefits of the OLD cutscenes, and OLD non butchered voice acting, AND less/no bugs

i played all these this last january and it was a delight
Classic campaign pack updated for 1.30.2! : WC3 everything in campaign uses 1.30.2 tuning.
Play MORE Campaign missions against your friends! : WC3 Play as the Enemy!

This guy is pretty cool

they can't just use the old code for reforged?no it's better to be an easy mode for all but with write difficult name
a side effect for voice acting that work only in english, all other Language are butchered and in English they have cut some joke like dryad

for achievement they not have implement yet, but if the difficult is so easy not have a sense to make them.On scII i love the brutal challenge
For portrait i've try but i try 3-4 time to do the fist mission on hard and never sign done in the portrait
 
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Chi
Hello, everyone. I haven't played classic campaign intentionally for like the past year and a half so I can experience it through Reforged. Today I finished the whole RoC + TFT campaign on Hard difficulty except The Founding of Durotar, which I haven't started yet, but I saw posts regarding a bug for the 2nd chapter where it does not take into account the completion of that chapter, hence no achievement and no portrait. I have beaten the campaign on Hard difficulty years ago and the way I remember it, the Frozen Throne campaign was very challenging, especially the Legacy of the Damned part. After my playthrough on Reforged, I must say it felt a lot easier than I remembered it, considering the fact that I forgot a lot of stuff about the missions. I am going to list the differences I noticed with the Reforged campaign (Hard difficulty):
  • Just to clear this out of the way - obviously the Culling of Stratholme, The Fall of Silvermoon and The Siege of Dalaran have been altered, but that's not the issue(s) I want to talk about.

  • Most missions, like for example The Siege of Dalaran and Twilight of the Gods were indeed easier. I barely saw Rage Winterchill in the last RoC mission.

  • By Demons be Driven is a lot harder, and while I do like to have harder missions, in this case I don't mean harder in a good way - once the Infernals cinematic finished 3 Infernals instantly landed in the middle of my base. After I finished them I saw Jaina's Northern part of her base was gone with Infernals and Fel (Chaos) Orcs overrunning her. What's worse is that the Jaina AI never revived Jaina after she died (yes she had the resources for it). In Classic, as far as I remember, Jaina could hold on her own, and if she was killed the AI would revive her at the Altar.

  • For some reason in Balancing the Scales I had access to Chimaera Roost. I did not build it as I remember Chimaeras were unlocked in the Ruins of Dalaran mission and wanted to keep it authentic.

  • Shard of the Alliance was surprisingly easy - I took the right path through the Undead bastion. I remember when I played this mission in Classic I had to revert to my save right at the end multiple times because I was either losing Maiev / Tyrande, Kael was dying or his magical wagons got destroyed. In Reforged I barely broke a sweat. Also in the ending cinematic where the bridge collapses and Tyrande falls is not done properly.

  • The hidden Little Timmy area in King Arthas is not "hidden". In the classic game different kind of trees are used which conceals the area pretty good. The first couple of times I played this mission back in the day I couldn't find it.

  • A New Power in Lordaeron was also a cakewalk - I even took out the orange and green Undead bases before I did the optional objective and destroyed Balnazzar's base. The main issue on this one was that throughout the whole mission the green Undead did not attack Garithos' base not even once. The Human was attacked only by Balnazzar. The orange Undead launched it's first attack really late with a few gargoyles. The second attack came with wagons and necromancers, I believe, although I was already camping at their base entrance with an army of Frost Wyrms... yes I had the time to get an army of Frost Wyrms before the second orange Undead attack. Balnazzar did not attack my base for the whole game until I finally broke the city gate. Right after I broke it with my Frost Wyrms, Balnazzar himself went to my base, while I flooded his from the South with mass Knights and the rescued Dwarfs from the optional quest and beat him.

  • The Forgotten Ones and Ascent to the Upper Kingdom were way, way easier than I remember them to be. When I played this back in classic, I remember I had to restart a million times to beat Ascent to the Upper Kingdom.

  • A Symphony of Frost and Flame - my favorite mission has also received changes. Although I consider them to be for the better. If you open the classic map, you'll notice there are disabled triggers for damaging buildings through earthquakes that occur whenever Illidan or Arthas captures an obelisk. These have been enabled for the Reforged version - every time Illidan captures an obelisk your buildings will suffer damage, every time Arthas captures an obelisk - the enemy buildings will suffer damage. I personally like this change as it makes the mission more interesting, the way they initially intended it to be, back in the day. However, that's not the only thing that makes the mission harder. The way Illidan's army works is at first he'll have weaker army composition with him, but after you kill him 2 times he'll start massing Couatl and will have Naga Royal Guards with him. In classic with an army of 3-4 Crypt Fiends, 5-6 Abominations and 6 Frost Wyrms I am able to destroy Illidan's escort fairly easy while he's busy channeling an obelisk, even with his tough army composition. In Reforged I get completely destroyed, and it gets worse after Illidan captures the obelisk and joins the fight... if I ever get that far.
These are the ones that come to mind now. There are probably more changes I forgot to mention or missed while playing.
Chimera were always available on balancing the scales.

And yes i experienced Jainas base getting stomped when i realised she didnt revive either. luckily all i do i make wyverns since the orcs and infernals cant do shit to them.

In symphony of frost and flame illidan is dynamic he builds stuff directly to counter your army so only frost wrym army he will make like 20+ couatl which are op as fuck. But u just kite them over a mass of towers at an obelisk and they die to the troll single unit.

The oblisk trigger is indeed interesting and i posted someone talking about it earlier. That would make NUKEING illidans base into the ground much much easier. instead of a 2 hour ordeal but the results of trading with illidan too much are catastrophic. especially fi you cant openly engage his mass of Flying units and he is nuking your Tower Fortress as a result
 
Level 4
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
48
Chi

Chimera were always available on balancing the scales.

And yes i experienced Jainas base getting stomped when i realised she didnt revive either. luckily all i do i make wyverns since the orcs and infernals cant do shit to them.

In symphony of frost and flame illidan is dynamic he builds stuff directly to counter your army so only frost wrym army he will make like 20+ couatl which are op as fuck. But u just kite them over a mass of towers at an obelisk and they die to the troll single unit.

The oblisk trigger is indeed interesting and i posted someone talking about it earlier. That would make NUKEING illidans base into the ground much much easier. instead of a 2 hour ordeal but the results of trading with illidan too much are catastrophic. especially fi you cant openly engage his mass of Flying units and he is nuking your Tower Fortress as a result

Ah, I edited my post about Balancing the Scales. I did not know Chimaeras were always available. For Demons be Driven - yes I use the same strategy with mass Wyverns. I take Cairne and spam Shockwave to clear the buildings, when he runs out of mana I just suicide him and he reincarnates with full mana. I push through the right side of the map.

As for Symphony of Frost and Flame - I have a personal attitude towards this mission since I was unable to beat it even on normal way back in the day. But after becoming good at the game, ever since I beat it on Hard I started playing it over and over again for a certain period of time, because it was so much fun. I didn't know Illidan built his army based on your own army composition -that makes a lot of sense, actually, now that you mention it. Years ago I read the JASS AI script but I am not very experienced with JASS so I don't know much. I once tried to edit the script to make him build more Royal Guards, don't know if it worked. Anyway my strategy for this mission is / was as follows:

First get all the gold from the previous 3 missions. Send 1 acolyte North to build Haunted Gold Mine. Clear the small Naga base, use sacrificial skull. Build Gold Mine, Necropolis, 5-6 Ziggurats on the right side (upgrade to Spirit Towers to fight off Naga attacks by Vashj), Crypt, Graveyard and Altar (if there is enough room). Then go kill the creeps guarding the obelisks as well as the Tuskarrs for gold, items and XP (for Arthas). Then just repel Kael and Vashj's attacks until I get 2-3 Meat Wagons, 3-4 Crypt Fiends, 5-6 Abominations, 5-6 Frost Wyrms -> destroy Kael's base -> destroy Vashj's base. In the meantime kill Illidan and take 1 of his captured obelisks (not the North one, that's heavily guarded). Don't bother with non-captured ones. Once both bases are destroyed I just focus on the obelisks. I always try to have 2 obelisks under my control (or nobody's control) before I attack Kael or Vashj's base. I know it's not necessary to destroy their bases, but I do it for the fun. In Reforged I only destroyed Vashj's base right after the 3rd Naga attack where she herself joins in. Immediately after I killed her I rushed to her base which was damaged by the earthquakes I caused from capturing the obelisks and cleared it.

I might replay the mission in Reforged again, but like I said, fighting Illidan's mass Couatl + Royal Guards was never a big problem for me in classic, even if Illidan is not channeling an obelisk. All I need to do is properly micro and Death Coil my Frost Wyrms until his army dies. However, in Reforged my Wyrms get focused hard by the Couatls and there is always a Myrmidon that will Ensnare. It's next to impossible to micro my way out in this situation unlike in classic. I never used the mass tower kiting strategy, and I don't think it will be viable in Reforged with the earthquake mechanic. Also I don't think I would've been able to handle the Reforged version of the mission if I didn't take all the gold from the previous 3 missions. In classic I don't have gold problems, but in Reforged, where I have to constantly repair my buildings, I kept running out of gold. It would've been worse if I didn't get the coins earlier.
 
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Ah, I edited my post about Balancing the Scales. I did not know Chimaeras were always available. For Demons be Driven - yes I use the same strategy with mass Wyverns. I take Cairne and spam Shockwave to clear the buildings, when he runs out of mana I just suicide him and he reincarnates with full mana. I push through the right side of the map.

As for Symphony of Frost and Flame - I have a personal attitude towards this mission since I was unable to beat it even on normal way back in the day. But after becoming good at the game, ever since I beat it on Hard I started playing it over and over again for a certain period of time, because it was so much fun. I didn't know Illidan built his army based on your own army composition -that makes a lot of sense, actually, now that you mention it. Years ago I read the JASS AI script but I am not very experienced with JASS so I don't know much. I once tried to edit the script to make him build more Royal Guards, don't know if it worked. Anyway my strategy for this mission is / was as follows:

First get all the gold from the previous 3 missions. Send 1 acolyte North to build Haunted Gold Mine. Clear the small Naga base, use sacrificial skull. Build Gold Mine, Necropolis, 5-6 Ziggurats on the right side (upgrade to Spirit Towers to fight off Naga attacks by Vashj), Crypt, Graveyard and Altar (if there is enough room). Then go kill the creeps guarding the obelisks as well as the Tuskarrs for gold, items and XP (for Arthas). Then just repel Kael and Vashj's attacks until I get 2-3 Meat Wagons, 3-4 Crypt Fiends, 5-6 Abominations, 5-6 Frost Wyrms -> destroy Kael's base -> destroy Vashj's base. In the meantime kill Illidan and take 1 of his captured obelisks (not the North one, that's heavily guarded). Don't bother with non-captured ones. Once both bases are destroyed I just focus on the obelisks. I always try to have 2 obelisks under my control (or nobody's control) before I attack Kael or Vashj's base. I know it's not necessary to destroy their bases, but I do it for the fun. In Reforged I only destroyed Vashj's base right after the 3rd Naga attack where she herself joins in. Immediately after I killed her I rushed to her base which was damaged by the earthquakes I caused from capturing the obelisks and cleared it.

I might replay the mission in Reforged again, but like I said, fighting Illidan's mass Couatl + Royal Guards was never a big problem for me in classic, even if Illidan is not channeling an obelisk. All I need to do is properly micro and Death Coil my Frost Wyrms until his army dies. However, in Reforged my Wyrms get focused hard by the Couatls and there is always a Myrmidon that will Ensnare. It's next to impossible to micro my way out in this situation unlike in classic. I never used the mass tower kiting strategy, and I don't think it will be viable in Reforged with the earthquake mechanic. Also I don't think I would've been able to handle the Reforged version of the mission if I didn't take all the gold from the previous 3 missions. In classic I don't have gold problems, but in Reforged, where I have to constantly repair my buildings, I kept running out of gold. It would've been worse if I didn't get the coins earlier.

illidan picks up items too so kill the creeps before he gets some extra gear. unless its not a permanent item he nabs then whateva. also dont leave items laying around because hell scoop it up.

Ah, I edited my post about Balancing the Scales. I did not know Chimaeras were always available. For Demons be Driven - yes I use the same strategy with mass Wyverns. I take Cairne and spam Shockwave to clear the buildings, when he runs out of mana I just suicide him and he reincarnates with full mana. I push through the right side of the map.

As for Symphony of Frost and Flame - I have a personal attitude towards this mission since I was unable to beat it even on normal way back in the day. But after becoming good at the game, ever since I beat it on Hard I started playing it over and over again for a certain period of time, because it was so much fun. I didn't know Illidan built his army based on your own army composition -that makes a lot of sense, actually, now that you mention it. Years ago I read the JASS AI script but I am not very experienced with JASS so I don't know much. I once tried to edit the script to make him build more Royal Guards, don't know if it worked. Anyway my strategy for this mission is / was as follows:

First get all the gold from the previous 3 missions. Send 1 acolyte North to build Haunted Gold Mine. Clear the small Naga base, use sacrificial skull. Build Gold Mine, Necropolis, 5-6 Ziggurats on the right side (upgrade to Spirit Towers to fight off Naga attacks by Vashj), Crypt, Graveyard and Altar (if there is enough room). Then go kill the creeps guarding the obelisks as well as the Tuskarrs for gold, items and XP (for Arthas). Then just repel Kael and Vashj's attacks until I get 2-3 Meat Wagons, 3-4 Crypt Fiends, 5-6 Abominations, 5-6 Frost Wyrms -> destroy Kael's base -> destroy Vashj's base. In the meantime kill Illidan and take 1 of his captured obelisks (not the North one, that's heavily guarded). Don't bother with non-captured ones. Once both bases are destroyed I just focus on the obelisks. I always try to have 2 obelisks under my control (or nobody's control) before I attack Kael or Vashj's base. I know it's not necessary to destroy their bases, but I do it for the fun. In Reforged I only destroyed Vashj's base right after the 3rd Naga attack where she herself joins in. Immediately after I killed her I rushed to her base which was damaged by the earthquakes I caused from capturing the obelisks and cleared it.

I might replay the mission in Reforged again, but like I said, fighting Illidan's mass Couatl + Royal Guards was never a big problem for me in classic, even if Illidan is not channeling an obelisk. All I need to do is properly micro and Death Coil my Frost Wyrms until his army dies. However, in Reforged my Wyrms get focused hard by the Couatls and there is always a Myrmidon that will Ensnare. It's next to impossible to micro my way out in this situation unlike in classic. I never used the mass tower kiting strategy, and I don't think it will be viable in Reforged with the earthquake mechanic. Also I don't think I would've been able to handle the Reforged version of the mission if I didn't take all the gold from the previous 3 missions. In classic I don't have gold problems, but in Reforged, where I have to constantly repair my buildings, I kept running out of gold. It would've been worse if I didn't get the coins earlier.

its should be interestng if i ever finish reforged. Hyjal being broken or something left a bad taste in my mouth
 
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Dec 1, 2008
Messages
48
illidan picks up items too so kill the creeps before he gets some extra gear. unless its not a permanent item he nabs then whateva. also dont leave items laying around because hell scoop it up.

I know about this one. I usually let him kill the creeps on the right obelisk and take the book of the dead, because at that point in time I have to deal with the first Blood Elf attack on my Northern gold mine. Then I just cheese him into wasting the book by aggroing him and running away LOL.

By the way, I forgot to mention: a new inventory feature in Reforged for the campaign - you can stack consumables. I abused this to my advantage multiple times. For example in the Dreadlord's Fall missions I stacked 3 Scrolls of Town Portal (hate the new Reforged icon for that item) on Varimathras as well as other expensive consumable items, which I immediately sold in the next mission to give myself more gold.

Speaking of the next mission - A New Power in Lordaeron, can someone with access to older Warcraft III game version check this mission on Hard difficulty to see if there are gates between your (Sylvanas') base and Balnazzar's as well as the orange Undead? Currently I have no access to old Warcraft III, but the way I remember it, Balnazzar is supposed to attack you by ground sometime in the beginning of the mission, which by far wasn't the case in Reforged. Unless I am mistaken.
 
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Messages
235
i played all these this last january and it was a delight
Classic campaign pack updated for 1.30.2! : WC3 everything in campaign uses 1.30.2 tuning.
Play MORE Campaign missions against your friends! : WC3 Play as the Enemy!

Looks cool, I will try it later. Thanks for sharing.

I can't believe they didn't include Custom Campaigns. WC3R has been a complete shitshow. Even the custom games don't work properly. Booty Bay is censored and in any case I personally can't even host custom games at all.

Edit: I noticed the gates issue in A New Power in Lordaeron as well. I think they were just worst at map making than even me! So the enemy forces are just stuck in their bases until you break open the gates for them because they don't have triggers to use the gates.

I also noticed that stupid thing with Kael not being able to Siphon Mana to his own troops.
 
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