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Next Melee Mapping contest Pre-disscusion

What maps would you like to create for the next contest?


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Level 20
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
276
Hello there!

With Melee Mapping contest #3 soon comming to an end, we should start disscusion about the next one. Share with us your opinions, I and many more are looking forward to hearing what you have to say. The poll should represent the general theme, thus what types of map we want to create in the next contest. You have up to 3 votes, so we can get as close as possible to the most suited category agreed by most of us.

Another main questions wich we must agree on:
- Do we want to have it Reforget friendly or not? (e.g. Allow custom doodads or not etc.)
- If no imports, can we change the actual doodads, make small changes to wheater and so on.
- If we want to allow imports, to what extend they can be implemented?
- If you have suggestions for judges, I will be more then happy to hear them.
- Do you think we can soon -ish (March) or should we wait for a few more weeks?

That would be all for now, but I hope we can get the conversation going.
 
Level 6
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
88
- Do we want to have it Reforget friendly or not? (e.g. Allow custom doodads or not etc.)

I'm in favor of doing so. It'll come soon enough.

- If no imports, can we change the actual doodads, make small changes to wheater and so on.
Weather effects are fine with me.

- If we want to allow imports, to what extend they can be implemented?
Are there any information about what kind of imports would not look odd with Reforged?
But if we agree to allow imports they should not be game breaking or confusing like destructibles looking like something that's normally invulnerable or terrain textures where you can't tell whether you can build on them or not.

- If you have suggestions for judges, I will be more then happy to hear them.
How about you?
Also I'd like to suggest the winners of the previous contests, including the current third one (whoever that will be).

- Do you think we can soon -ish (March) or should we wait for a few more weeks?
Soonish - unless my expectation for the end of the judges' work is off again. They as well as you are still busy with the current contest and you are a mapmaker yourself. I wouldn't want to give you a handicap because you're still occupied.
 
Level 14
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Messages
140
This is mandatory imo, Reforged-ready maps, ain't this why we're doing this couple recent contests for - to have a nice pack of R-ready maps? Do we want to have it Reforget friendly or not? (e.g. Allow custom doodads or not)

If Blizzard would be so kind to change boundaries of what is considered Melee:Yes/No in Reforged, than yes. I would really enjoy if melee maps allowed to modify doodad size from 20% to 300%+, or change doodad color, rotation, pitch and all those things that shouldn't break the melee:YES status. If no imports, can we change the actual doodads, make small changes to wheater and so on.

Imports if not specifically done blizzlike, usually look out of style/tone with the rest of models. This contest is a melee contest: balance, innovation and theme. If we want to allow imports, to what extend they can be implemented?

No suggestions for a qualified wc3 judge, but would be nice for judges to communicate more and be more active during the contest. - If you have suggestions for judges, I will be more then happy to hear them.

ASAP? Who has time to join - will join :D Maybe include more submissions per creator? Do you think we can soon -ish (March) or should we wait for a few more weeks?
 
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Level 4
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Dec 2, 2018
Messages
25
Yeah, I'm globally against the utilisation of imports, but I don't see why changing the doodads visuals through the editor is problematic (it will still be a melee map even if the editor cannot recognize it)...
About time, I think that finishing before the release of Reforged could be a good point so a contest in march-april is a plus !
 
Level 20
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Nov 6, 2013
Messages
276
Seems like many of you hyped for the next contest, which is great. The main idea behind these contests is indeed to get some of those maps to official ladder, but we can have some other patterns (2 contest Reforged ready, 1 for custom doodads or something) since some people would like to produce some new tileset/not so mainstream map designs and so on. I just want to make sure majority of you are for Reforged ready maps.

@Khaldaiel while we all know that, Blizz won't accept any map with changed object data. (Check Swamped Temple, which originaly had some, but Blizz scraped them all, notifying the community it is the last time they will do that.) Thus until the Blizz will change their melee ladder policy regarding this, if we want to stay Reforged ready we must comply with that. (I have some custom object data in some of my maps, but I know they won't be accepted into the ladder. If I would want them to be there, I would have to rework them.)

@XanderD while I and previous participants could judge, most of them would like to participate in the contest, so I don't know about that. Also, speaking for myself, I'm not that confident in my melee knowledge to become a judge, maybe in the future when I'm more confident, but have in mind that the judge should have a lot of mapping as well as gameplay knowledge, but most importantly, loads of free time, which is rather limited for some.
 
Level 6
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88
@XanderD while I and previous participants could judge, most of them would like to participate in the contest, so I don't know about that. Also, speaking for myself, I'm not that confident in my melee knowledge to become a judge, maybe in the future when I'm more confident, but have in mind that the judge should have a lot of mapping as well as gameplay knowledge, but most importantly, loads of free time, which is rather limited for some.
My intention was not to force anyone to do this job nor to make this a punishment for people who win a contest so they'd be unable to do it twice in a row or whatever. It was just a suggestion. But besides mapmakers we could also ask professional players (or former ones) or shoutcasters or people who are a bit like both. So to name just a few that come to my mind: Foggy, Grubby, Neo and Remo from Back2Warcraft, ToD - perhaps even the finalists of the recent 2v2 Ugri Challenge Happy, Cash, Thorzain and StarShaped or other top participants from this tournament. But I have no idea whether any of these would want to or got the time to do this. I think it would also be nice to have a combination like one mapmaker, one top player and one caster so we'd get three completely different points of view. But these are all just ideas.
 

sentrywiz

S

sentrywiz

What is reforged-ready maps? Is it only custom doodads?
Can we also change models of units then?
Or add some minor trigger enhancements?

Probably not on the latter this is melee contest..
 
Level 20
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Messages
276
@sentrywiz pretty much what @JaleVeliki said. The map status in editor must be melee, which right now means: No custom data, No triggers, No imports, No campaign units etc. Everything that changes the status Is this a melee map to No would be banned. Since we don't know much about Reforged yet, assumtion is that maps which use Blizz assets and use no custom data, can be easilly transfered into W3:Reforged and played by everybody with a beatiful new graphics.
 
Level 18
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
498
I think we could go full reforged friendly.
Some hive maps have been recently used in tounaments and inhouse games, and they are required to be melee: yes types of maps, and having maps fresh out of contest ready to be played would be a plus imo.

About judges I have no idea. It is such a time consuming thing, I doubt anyone busy streaming and such would even consider it.

Was wondering also, is there any way to have people vote without having to log in?

And what about collaborations? A good terrainer could partner up with a more game knowledgable person and viceversa.

Maybe I'm thinking too far on these, the community is too small for that I fear.

About the time.. considering these seem to last around 2 monts+, mid march? with it ending around mid may, we could have a longer contest june-august, and then mid september-mid november in time with reforged? I'm just speculating.
 
Level 5
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Mar 1, 2018
Messages
47
"And what about collaborations? A good terrainer could partner up with a more game knowledgable person and viceversa."

Me like this idea a lot
 
Level 29
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
1,635
Hello there!

With Melee Mapping contest #3 soon comming to an end, we should start disscusion about the next one. Share with us your opinions, I and many more are looking forward to hearing what you have to say. The poll should represent the general theme, thus what types of map we want to create in the next contest. You have up to 3 votes, so we can get as close as possible to the most suited category agreed by most of us.

Another main questions wich we must agree on:
1- Do we want to have it Reforget friendly or not? (e.g. Allow custom doodads or not etc.)
2- If no imports, can we change the actual doodads, make small changes to wheater and so on.
3- If we want to allow imports, to what extend they can be implemented?
4- If you have suggestions for judges, I will be more then happy to hear them.
5- Do you think we can soon -ish (March) or should we wait for a few more weeks?

That would be all for now, but I hope we can get the conversation going.



1) yes
2) no change doodads.
3) no imports all to reach blizzard Ladder, use the imports in mini maps contest.
4) I have none.
5) march is great! can´t wait to map something. 1st of march would be great!!

6) since the tide is going to 2v2, I say 2v2.
 
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sentrywiz

S

sentrywiz

Can 2v2 be interpreted as a 4 player FFA, if I started attacking my ally and my dark
companion player attacks his ally. Then we;re all attacking each other and its a mess.
A bloodbath. *hint

I agree on any date, as long as the rules are defined. Custom or no custom, works fine with me.
 
Level 6
Joined
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Messages
88
Can 2v2 be interpreted as a 4 player FFA, if I started attacking my ally and my dark
companion player attacks his ally. Then we;re all attacking each other and its a mess.
A bloodbath. *hint
Someone please remind me never to play or test a map with sentrywiz.
;)
But of course you could make a 2v2 map in a way that it is also suitable for 4 player FFA.
 

sentrywiz

S

sentrywiz

Someone please remind me never to play or test a map with sentrywiz.
;)
But of course you could make a 2v2 map in a way that it is also suitable for 4 player FFA.

Lmao! Especially not the "2v2" map I would be making.
 
Level 29
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May 21, 2013
Messages
1,635
I am eager to start!! hope this starts the 1st of march!!

I think we could go full reforged friendly.
Some hive maps have been recently used in tounaments and inhouse games, and they are required to be melee: yes types of maps, and having maps fresh out of contest ready to be played would be a plus imo.

About judges I have no idea. It is such a time consuming thing, I doubt anyone busy streaming and such would even consider it.

Was wondering also, is there any way to have people vote without having to log in?

And what about collaborations? A good terrainer could partner up with a more game knowledgable person and viceversa.

Maybe I'm thinking too far on these, the community is too small for that I fear.

About the time.. considering these seem to last around 2 monts+, mid march? with it ending around mid may, we could have a longer contest june-august, and then mid september-mid november in time with reforged? I'm just speculating.

"And what about collaborations? A good terrainer could partner up with a more game knowledgable person and viceversa."

Me like this idea a lot

it may be problematic, 2 users may end discussing the map in neverending ways.
Collaboration is great for big proyects like AOS, Altered melee and RPG, where you can actually add things, more heroes, more items, more units, more buildings with funtions,

but for melee, is like the whole map is an individual idea,
(it may end in things like, I dont want partner with that guy... is not that good at this...or is not having time or not responding my pms, he has low activity...).

Coperative contest tend to have time of 2 and 3 months, while us like 1 month.

also we are not that much people with will to participate in competitive melee contest, 19 maps in the 2nd 15 maps in the 3rd, it will reduce the entries at half.

But, I would consider 2-users team as optional for those who want to team, if there are users that really gets along and have time to discuss, send map here, send map there, beta test. (I prefer solo-mapping).
 
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Level 5
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Mar 1, 2018
Messages
47
Yeah I mean just as an option. I have worked with Keito/Filmting in the past on maps such as Synergy which is now in the 2v2 mappool on ladder.
And I have also collaborated with Knecht here and there.
Collaborations shouldn't be forced, but they can create great results. I have a pretty good grasp on balance and can create concepts, but I have no World Editor experience or terrain ability, but I still like the idea of making a map. If you prefer solo mapping you can do solo, but to me this is a good idea.
 
Level 29
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Messages
1,635
Yeah I mean just as an option. I have worked with Keito/Filmting in the past on maps such as Synergy which is now in the 2v2 mappool on ladder.
And I have also collaborated with Knecht here and there.
Collaborations shouldn't be forced, but they can create great results. I have a pretty good grasp on balance and can create concepts, but I have no World Editor experience or terrain ability, but I still like the idea of making a map. If you prefer solo mapping you can do solo, but to me this is a good idea.

I understand that many people collaborated with the map Synergy, but my point is that Synergy is a map made by 1 user, not like Elemental tower TD that was made by 5 users.

I was thinking in the 4th contest, one thing is collaboration, give hints here and there and maybe a beta test, like the 8 users of discord did in my map.
And other thing is to design a map co-author like "mafe & Jaleveliki like "Nerubians in Felwood""
Co-author, the work should be half-half or a clear separation.

If one user is the terrainer, that user gets all the work, define loot, beta test and point bugs, seems like a very secondary work.

Of course a map can be designed half-half but it really requires "a lot of time" and "get along"
 
Level 20
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276
@Ragnaros17 you are looking too much into it. Collaborations can be great options for many, you don't need to do it if you don't like it. It is not your buisness who is the primary and who is secondary map creator, if they agreed to create the map toghether, it will belong to both of them and they can split it in any way they want. Or did I get something wrong in your post?
 
Level 29
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@Ragnaros17 you are looking too much into it. Collaborations can be great options for many, you don't need to do it if you don't like it. It is not your buisness who is the primary and who is secondary map creator, if they agreed to create the map toghether, it will belong to both of them and they can split it in any way they want. Or did I get something wrong in your post?

Yes, maybe I didn´t explain my point well.
I just did the long speech stating that team work should be optional.
Because there are contest where teams are mandatory, and I don´t want mandatory teams contest.
That should be well explained in the rules, thats all.
 

sentrywiz

S

sentrywiz

I wholeheartedly agree with @Ragnaros17 on this.

@Mr.Henci you might have overlooked a critical rule in this and future contests.
You ignore the benefits and cons of a teamwork made map, and how big of an impact it can have.

For the sake of argument, since I ranked dead last in this contest, I can prove my theory by
joining the next contest with another map maker, as a control group. Two heads bash and fight
each other, thus resulting in ideas being polished. An alone map maker is a specialist, two or more
are a team and you can expect the unexpected from teamwork, good or bad.


Also, I ranked last because I like making other kinds of maps. Never made melee other than Spacing v1.1 Rain Forest, and even that one is
stretching the limits of melee, or rather... limiting them. So it was fun for me to see if my experience got me
through... and oh look at the results!

Anyway, point was and is - Team work is either in or out. If not, I can join by myself and get 10 other people
to polish the map for me. Then I'll get all the credit if I win. That's neither fair nor fun for everyone else.
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
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Messages
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Due to reallife, I havent really been keeping up with the developments here in depth.
My current point of view is that 2v2 could be a good idea, with the new warcraft3.info team league coming up, and the organizers there open for new maps (there will be one 2v2 per clanwar), as they have included two of @Mr.Henci 's maps in the mappool. Maybe we can reach out to see how long they expect the first season to last, so that we can have the contest concluded some time before hopefully the second season will begin, and maybe a map has a shot to be included there. A 2v2 map also shouldnt be as time-consuming as a 4v4 map.

I am not sure if I will participate as a mapper this time. However, if you guys are ok with that, I would like to try being the host/a judge this time. Though this would mean I will probably not be available for feedback or testing while the contest is running.
 
Level 29
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Due to reallife, I havent really been keeping up with the developments here in depth.
My current point of view is that 2v2 could be a good idea, with the new warcraft3.info team league coming up, and the organizers there open for new maps (there will be one 2v2 per clanwar), as they have included two of @Mr.Henci 's maps in the mappool. Maybe we can reach out to see how long they expect the first season to last, so that we can have the contest concluded some time before hopefully the second season will begin, and maybe a map has a shot to be included there. A 2v2 map also shouldnt be as time-consuming as a 4v4 map.

I am not sure if I will participate as a mapper this time. However, if you guys are ok with that, I would like to try being the host/a judge this time. Though this would mean I will probably not be available for feedback or testing while the contest is running.

judge great!!
 
Level 20
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276
@Ragnaros17 yes, the team of 2 would be optional, I've never said it should be only team contest, but having an option to work as a team can bring even more polished and better maps.

@sentrywiz not sure I'm following you buddy. Teamwork is a nice option in my opinion, not sure if you are for it or against it. And yes, we rely on user honesty, there is no way we can prove the map hasn't been made by 100 users at the moment.

@mafe even though we will miss your map in this one, offering to be a judge is a great news. If you want to host a next contest, sure, go ahead. I don't own it in the end :D If you feel, like you can do a better job thanks to your contacts in the whole W3 community, I would be happy to leave you all the contest management.
----
EDIT: Also, I was thinking we can start this weekend, meaning 1st - 3rd March. Are you guys ok with that? Also, we don't really need that much time with 2v2 maps, so maybe 3 weeks should be enough, meaning the end would be around 23rd-ish March. What do you guys think?
 
Level 29
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@Ragnaros17 yes, the team of 2 would be optional, I've never said it should be only team contest, but having an option to work as a team can bring even more polished and better maps.

@sentrywiz not sure I'm following you buddy. Teamwork is a nice option in my opinion, not sure if you are for it or against it. And yes, we rely on user honesty, there is no way we can prove the map hasn't been made by 100 users at the moment.

@mafe even though we will miss your map in this one, offering to be a judge is a great news. If you want to host a next contest, sure, go ahead. I don't own it in the end :D If you feel, like you can do a better job thanks to your contacts in the whole W3 community, I would be happy to leave you all the contest management.
----
EDIT: Also, I was thinking we can start this weekend, meaning 1st - 3rd March. Are you guys ok with that? Also, we don't really need that much time with 2v2 maps, so maybe 3 weeks should be enough, meaning the end would be around 23rd-ish March. What do you guys think?

It can start friday 1st and end sunday 7 april, five weeks?

2v2 sounds great! But give us at least a two month time :p, last time I joined only after Christmas and had only few weeks to finish it :p

contest shure have mapping time of 1 month, or 1 month and 1 week,
consider that if we start in march 1 month mapping, 1 month judge, the contest results will be in may.

extentions can be granted if a lot of users are falling behind. but
if you dont get in time but the others does, is your bussiness,
 
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Level 20
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@mmtt glad it suits you. @Restor 2 months would be an overkill. 4v4 maps are huge and take a lot of time, but most of the user managed to pull it of in less than a 6 weeks. So, like you, joined in late, yet managed to finish their maps to a contest worthy level. 2v2 maps are much smaller in scale, thus require less time.

@Ragnaros17 do you really need that long though? I have a feeling many start their maps 2-3 weeks before deadline, so I tought it will be enough time for mappers to finish, with maybe 1 week extension to 1st April. Let's see what others think and how @mafe will react, since he seems to be in charge now.
 
Level 29
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well so start friday 1st and end sunday 31?? 4 weeks is ok to me , hope the others are also ok.

Important!!


I feel that a poll is necesary (in a similar way like the theme contest based) to know in a fast way what is the tendecy regarding teamwork in the 4th contest.

not an oficial poll. a cheap/ one to know users opinions in a fast and easy way.
I am not organicing this contest, probably @mafe will, this may help him to decide and if necesary write new rules about it.

if teamwork is a go

there should be rules about this cases
1) Teamwork is limited to X numbers of users (I think two is the number Terrainer/Balancer??)

2) If 1 of the 2 users of the teams drops because of RL, the other user can:
a) continue the original entry alone.
b) team with a new user, but start a new entry (fair for both users ??)

3) If both users want to disband and continue alone or make team with others users, they have to submit both new entries , none of them can use the old entry of the team after disband and continue both in the contest alone or in others teams.

I can only think this two situations wich may require a pre-defined rules just in case.

except the rules of teamwork, I think we should use the same pack of rules

20% poll 80% judges, 15% creativity, 35% terrain, 50%balance and the rest of the stuff.

4th melee contest may allow optional teamwork?
 
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Level 22
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Whoa, I completely forgot about this thread. Tbh, I'm not really sure about joining the next contest, a lot of work to be done irl. I'm all for teams though, some might be better at balancing, other at terrain, teams might help some creators out.

@mafe Ah, lovely to see you take on the post of judge. Well suited for it.
 
Level 29
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Whoa, I completely forgot about this thread. Tbh, I'm not really sure about joining the next contest, a lot of work to be done irl. I'm all for teams though, some might be better at balancing, other at terrain, teams might help some creators out.

@mafe Ah, lovely to see you take on the post of judge. Well suited for it.

Yeah I understand you, I will not join this one because of RL, it just happens, good luck.
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
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So, if I'm going to host it, I will at the very least need several days to set everything up, especially since this will be the first time for me doing anything like it.

The early possible schedule (assuming everything goes right) would probably be something like this.
-Contest announced next weekend.
-Contest starts on March 15 (a short amount of time before announcement and start seems to be customary)
-Contest concludes on April 14.

One downside for this is that May will be relatively busy for me, so I might take a while to come with the scores.

However, imho the last contest results are out for a relatively short time. I still get regular notifications of people updating their maps from the contest, so it is not like everyone has nothing to do right now ;) Maybe some people even would like to polish their 4v4 map before mocing on to the next map? Any opinions on this?

I dont mind teamwork being allowed.

@Naze would you be happy to be the appointed moderator once again?
Are there any further suggestions for judges? @W3Sour @WTii how about you?
 
Level 28
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Sure!

When you make the contest thread just tag me in it and I'll make sure it is okay before I do the moving around and set up the official announcements for the contest.

However we usually wait a month or so before another contest of the same type. What do you think?

Regarding judges, in addition to possibly W3sour and WTii, you can take a look at someone who didn't participate in the end of the contest (like Knecht is saying he probably won't) and invite the person.
 
Level 6
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However, imho the last contest results are out for a relatively short time. I still get regular notifications of people updating their maps from the contest, so it is not like everyone has nothing to do right now ;) Maybe some people even would like to polish their 4v4 map before mocing on to the next map? Any opinions on this?
Speaking as one of those currently polishing their map from the last contest, I'd still be able to start a new map project. It would only mean that my tower defense will be postponed.

And about judges again - I could ask some people but I don't want it to look like I'm picking anyone who would favor me. So if you want me to go around and ask some people, just tell me.
 
Level 4
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However, imho the last contest results are out for a relatively short time. I still get regular notifications of people updating their maps from the contest, so it is not like everyone has nothing to do right now ;) Maybe some people even would like to polish their 4v4 map before mocing on to the next map? Any opinions on this?

Not sure about others but if the next contest is in mid march then thats plenty of time for me to make changes to my map.
 
Level 6
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I would like to nominate Chaco ( Twitch ). As an experienced caster he knows the game well and of course also a lot about the mechanics and map balances and all the other tasty stuff we're looking for in a qualified judge.
 
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I got good and bad news - I asked ToD and he's also too busy. But I got a positive reply from Ena1337 ( Frozen Throne - Northrend - ENA1337 - Player Profile , Twitch ). So he would be another nomination from my side. I still like the idea of a trio of a caster, a top player and a map maker. Chaco would fulfill the role of the caster, Ena as current #57 on ladder would in my view qualify as a skilled player but if only I knew a place where we could find a talented mapmaker...

So seriously - Chaco and Ena would be great in my opinion. So I'd love some mod or admin to get into contact with them. Chaco already posted here that he's willing.
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
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So here is my preview about the the next contest. There might also be a bit of prize money, but it isnt 100% guaranteed yet. Also I will not release the names of th judges yet, as there will be some special surprises ;)

the%20hive%20workshop.png


full


MELEE MAPPING CONTEST #4

Create a 2v2 melee map that excels in balance, terrain and creativity, while being suitable for Warcraft III Reforged.

contest%20rules%20and%20conditions.png

  • No submission may violate any of the site rules.
  • If a submission does not follow the map submission rules the creator will be disqualified.
  • All submissions must follow the current theme. If any submission does not fit, a moderator will tell you as soon as possible as to avoid confusion.
    • You must submit your entry before the deadline. To submit your final entry, you must upload the entry's contents as a bundle in the Maps Section, and link to that bundle in this thread confirming the submission.
    • Several screenshots of terrain and gameplay.
    • The file in the appropriate format.
  • You must show at least one unfinished preview of your submission, before the deadline, as proof that it’s yours.
  • Your submission may not be started/made before the official launch of the contest.
  • Judges may not participate.
  • Your final submission must be bug free.
  • Teamwork is allowed under following conditions: Up to two people may work jointly on a contest submission. If you want to enter as a team, both participants must state this in the contest thread.
    • Prize money will be evenly shared between both mappers.
    • Finding testers to help you with your submission is not considered teamwork.
    • You can participate either in one team or as a single contestant.
  • No custom imports are allowed.
  • Triggers are not allowed.
  • Only one entry per contestant or team.
  • For melee maps, any gameplay altering data may not be changed. (No custom units/spells/buffs. Destructibles/objects may be changed, however we would highly apreciate, if you wouldn't do so.)
  • To participate in this contest, register by stating your intention in this thread. There will be a limit of 25 submissions. A list of registered participants will be available in the post below this one. Please also leave a note if you know that won't be able to finish your map in time, so that your spot can be taken by someone else instead.
  • Please also consider the FAQ in first post after this thread.

Breaking any of these rules may lead to punishment in the judgement score, up to disqualification from the contest, depending on the weight of the issue. In case of doubts towards a certain rule you are very encouraged to discuss it in the contest thread so others and judges may help with sorting it out.

prizes.png


  • 1st place: 30 reputation points and €xx through paypal.
  • 2nd place: 15 reputation points and €xx through paypal.
  • 3rd place: 5 reputation points and €xx through paypal.
  • Judge: 15 reputation points

The three winning entries will receive an award icon, representing the winning entry.


judges.png


  • TBD

contest%20judging%20and%20voting.png




Balance:
Is the map balanced for both teams? Are the positions and distance between points of interest fair? Does the map allow the 4 races to be balanced? Consider balance when implementing the pathing, resources, creep camps, and item drops.50/100

Terrain:
Is the map visually pleasing in mediums of terrain, doodad placement, and overall theme? Is the map repetitive? Is the aesthetic well designed but not overly obstructive?35/100

Creativity & Uniqueness:
Does the map bring something new or creative to the table? This should primarily refer to gameplay, but terrain may also be included. 15/100

Bugs:
Scores may be brought down if there are bug-like issues such as faulty pathing, unusable resources, etc.


  • 80% of the winner shall be determined by the contest's appointed judges.
  • 20% of the winner shall be determined by the results of a public poll.
contest%20dates%20and%20deadline.png



  • The contest shall begin on March 16 and conclude on April 23th, 23:59 GMT
Assigned Moderator: @Naze
 
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mafe

Map Reviewer
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Messages
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I have also created a FAQ to be included in the contest thread. It is not fully complete yet, but anyway:

What is a melee map?
A melee map is map that is suitable for unaltered wc3 gameplay. The kind of maps you play on when you to battle.net and hit

How can I tell if my map is a melee map?
Set game data to default and play your map. When you have all 8 heroes in the tavern, your map is fine. Alternatively, when you open your map in the World Editor, there is a small text in the bottom right which says Melee map: Yes or No. If you hover your mouse over this text, it will give indicators your why your map is not considered a melee map. Sometimes (for example, if you open a map that has been created in an World Editor with a different language setting), it will still say it isnt a melee map, but will nevertheless work as a default melee map.

Why this restrictive setting? I could just make sure it is a melee map by setting game datat to "Melee (latest patch)"?
@Kam has stated before that in order to be considered for Battle.net, melee maps should satisfy the "Melee Map: Yes" condition, see here: Melee Mapping Contest #2 - 1 vs 1 . So this condition is set to ensure all maps entries will satisfy this condition, as the dream of almost all melee mappers is to have their maps adopted by blizzard. If you are not happy with this, then unfortunately this contest is not for you, but nothing prevents you from uploading and sharing your map anyway.

Why doesnt the contest start right away?
Participants shall have enough time to consider if they want to work as a team and talk to pontential partners without missing time during which they could be working on their maps. Also during the previous melee mapping contests, there have always been some questions about rules and other stuff which should better be answered before the contest itself begins.

Please define "2v2 map".
For this contest, maps shall be rated with respect to how suitbale they are for 2v2. If your map is also playable for other game modes such as 1v1, FFA,... is not relevant for this contest, neither positively nor negatively.

What does "ready for reforged mean"?
While I'm not entirely sure where I heard it, but if I remember correctly a blizzard employee said that maps using only data that is included in the World Editor by default can be ported to Reforged without any problems. This seems to imply that if you import resources for your map, this might cause issues with respect to portign the map to Reforged.

Why the limit of participants?
It is to limit the number of submissions that the judges will have to review, as these reviews will take a lot of time if taken seriously, and the judges are doing this in their own free time. However, if it is foreseeable that there is much greater interest in this contest than anticipated, this topic can be discussed further.

Any further explanations about teamwork?
There are probably some issues if someone tries to insist on a very "creative" interpretation of the rules. Please try to be reasonable. Other than that, it would of course be good idea to find teams of people who complement each other well, for example an experienced player (with little mapping experience, but knowledge about gameplay and balance) and an experienced mapper (who already knows some tricks about the editor, but maybe isnt playing too much).


If you have any questions or believe something should be resolved before the contest starts, please leave a comment. If there are no obstacles, I will publish the contest this evening or tomorrow (european time).
 
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Level 12
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If you wish to recruit top tier players for testing (which is generally a splendid idea), it might be reasonable to give them only the very best maps. Do a standard round of judging beforehand, sort out the best 3, 4 or 5 maps and pass them on to expert balance testing.

Cause I imagine it's pretty tiresome to play through some 15 to 20 maps, and I'd prefer more in-depth analysis of the best maps over a superficial analysis of all maps. I don't mean to disrespect the creators of the "weaker" maps (and even if unbalanced, they might still be fun to play), but if the idea is to pass maps on to Blizzard, then it would be reasonable to take a much closer look at those few.

Perhaps ask the testers you've had in mind what they think about the work load. If they have fun, they will be in for the upcoming contests as well. I've always found it hard to find good players and they typically preferred to stick with one or two maps that you improved continually, rather than testing a new map every day.

Additionally, you could give the maps an additional "outview" rating that's not part of the final points. Some maps are faulty by their basic design while others only need a bit of item drop fixing to be playable already. Small mistakes cost big points in the tournaments (and rightfully so), but sometimes the second best map is actually the more promising one, if only it received some repairs.
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
869
If you wish to recruit top tier players for testing (which is generally a splendid idea), it might be reasonable to give them only the very best maps. Do a standard round of judging beforehand, sort out the best 3, 4 or 5 maps and pass them on to expert balance testing.
Just to clarify the terms: Testing ist something that is up to the map developers to decide how they want to approach. If they can find pro players then great! The judges of this contest will review the maps after the contest has concluded. It is up to them to decide how they create their reviews. Ideally, this should involve test games, but I wouldnt blame a judge if, for example, he decides that some maps are just not worth the investing a large amount of time into reviewing them and just states a few obvious reasons.
Cause I imagine it's pretty tiresome to play through some 15 to 20 maps, and I'd prefer more in-depth analysis of the best maps over a superficial analysis of all maps. I don't mean to disrespect the creators of the "weaker" maps (and even if unbalanced, they might still be fun to play), but if the idea is to pass maps on to Blizzard, then it would be reasonable to take a much closer look at those few.
See above, I consider this up to the judges to decide. However, I also hope that these contest will attract new people to making melee maps. Anyone entering deserves at least some kind of feedback, especially as an encouragement for new mappers.
I'm not sure if we will proactively pass maps on to blizzard. My assumption is that blizzard are paying attention to what's going on here anyway (see Kams comment in the FAQ).
Perhaps ask the testers you've had in mind what they think about the work load. If they have fun, they will be in for the upcoming contests as well. I've always found it hard to find good players and they typically preferred to stick with one or two maps that you improved continually, rather than testing a new map every day.
There is definitely a point to this argument. It's just that this process isnt compatible with a contest.
Additionally, you could give the maps an additional "outview" rating that's not part of the final points. Some maps are faulty by their basic design while others only need a bit of item drop fixing to be playable already. Small mistakes cost big points in the tournaments (and rightfully so), but sometimes the second best map is actually the more promising one, if only it received some repairs.
Sometimes judges have already included it, but yes, that sounds like a good idea to explicitly include it.
I guess there is a small typo in here...

But that wasn't the point of this message... The point was : "YEAAAAHHHHHH !!!" Glad to see the contest building up, and the surprises are only spicing it up !
Probably not a typo, more like an error due to english not being my native language. I'll see if I can express it more clearly ;)
 
Level 6
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Messages
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I do like the idea Cigaro proposed here about making the judgment a two-stage process and I actually have been in some juries for architectural contests that worked that way. However, I think it is too late for this very soon upcoming contest to implement this concept now. But we should talk about this for the fifth one. I could then also explain how these architectural contests work (here).
 

mafe

Map Reviewer
Level 24
Joined
Nov 2, 2013
Messages
869
I've added some more questions to the FAQ.
Unfortunately due to a misunderstanding, I will have to remove the part about w3il having a look at the maps. I probably should have waited a few days longer before mentioning this. Sorry.
This does not mean that they will definitely ignore the maps, just that nothing is certain at the moment.

I also clarified that the "creativity" category shall primarily focus on gameplay, but can also include terrain.
 
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