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Melee map contest #2

Discussion in 'Submissions Archive' started by Mr.Henci, Aug 6, 2018.

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  1. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    Soon, it will be a year since the last melee map contest and I must say that it was a quite enjoyable experience. Thus, I want to ask you, my fellow map makers if you would be interested in the next round of melee contest?
     
  2. Blood Raven

    Blood Raven

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    I would probably join if someone hosted another 2-player melee contest with an interesting theme.
     
  3. nightelfbuilder

    nightelfbuilder

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    Yeah a 2 player melee map would be really good, and make the theme as out of the box as possible so people can use lots of custom imports hehe.
     
  4. I can't guarantee I'll be joining because of my exams. If it's somewhere like mid to late August I might give it a shot. It's for 1v1 maps, right?
     
  5. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    Well, here are my ideas for the contest, but all of them are only temporary and can be changed:
    1) The map must be suitable for 1v1 competitive play
    2) Imports/Custom data is allowed as long as it doesn't ruins the gameplay(custom doodads are OK, custom units are not)
    3) No. of players is unlimited, however map must fulfil the rule no.1
    4) It should be in line with some theme*on which we will agree on before the contest starts.

    *My idea for the theme would be: Any place from Warcraft universe. (Did you enjoyed Swap of Sorrows from W1? Or maybe you find Dalaran from W3 quitte intresting or perhaps Stormwind City from WoW. Fantasy is your limit)
     
  6. I'd personally rather not use custom textures if it's not strictly required. I don't have a problem with others using them however. I agree about the setting suggestion. I would like to see places like Plaguelands, Grizzly Hills, Westfall and others adapted for melee setting.
     
  7. Naze

    Naze

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    Hmmm good to know you guys are interested in another melee map contest. I'm just not sure if we'll be able to have the same way we had it last year (with the partnership and money prize) but we'll see.
     
  8. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    For me personally the contest was fun and B2W + money, was just a cherry on top. Since I believe there are at least 10 active melee map makers on Hive, we should get an oportunity to host our own contest.
     
  9. Knecht

    Knecht

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    One thing though, as we've seen with the newest additions in the ladder pool, blizz isn't very fond of any custom data. Though I don't think we should be obliged by the strict rules of ladder map, it's not really up to me what the rules will be.
     
  10. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    @Knecht so will you able to find some time for map crafting then? :D Even though I don't plan to use custom data either, it should be an option for mapers who like to work with them.

    I understand your love for ships, however, competitive 1v1 is what is W3 about at the moment, so I think it will be better for everyone if we will stick to it. If there are more people willing to do something "out of the box" we will have a poll about it.
     
  11. Knecht

    Knecht

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    @Mr.Henci Well it depends when the contest will take place.

    I'll try not to work with the ships then :cgrin: I'm just glad it's a 1v1 contest again, the 24 player contest was crazy in such a short time span.
     
  12. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    "4) It should be in line with some theme*on which we will agree on before the contest starts."

    I think the theme should be free (as long is a melee map with the presets of Blizzard, and custom things for doodads only).


    It is more fun if the users have freedom to choose the tematic. Lord of the rings , Age of wonders , Final Fantasy, Pillars of Eternity, Dark souls, what ever.

    So users can be free and do what they like. (if all of us do wow areas, it is pointless to judge how accurate is the wc3 map to the wow area). The last contest had that freedom and it was great.

    -Elwyn Forest or Hellfire peninsula, nothing new really.
    - Another areas may be boring as hell like Tanaris desert or Desolace wich the terrain is very monotone and empty.
    -There are many cool wow areas like Zangar Marsh or Grim Batol but they have already been done.
    - Anothers wow areas will need alpha tiles for shure to represent them.

    -Not everybody played wow (I did Wrath of the Lich King and a bit of Cataclysm then I quit I didn´t like Cataclysm at all they destroyed the talent system, and now they are with the 7 expansion and I know nothing.

    Doing a theme based of a lore you are not familiar: (Not everybody played wow and probably not everybody remember wc3 campaing history with detail: Illidan Prison, Furion house, The prophet dungeon) Choosing a theme like lets say Dark souls or Skyrim saga, many users will have disadvantage.

    That will force you to see youtube videos, thats take time.
    It takes time to know a new lore and in a second phase get inspired to plasm such lore the best you can.

    I was trying to take ideas from wow areas and sadly I am not getting very inspired

    I got few ideas for wow areas, just if I need them later, and none of them is what I really want to do rigth now.

    -Also it is good to see new things never done before, from others lores.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  13. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    The "theme" should be there to spice things up, but we can leave that for another contest. I don't really mind. Seems like we have enought people for the contest. I will upadate the rules, we will dicuss the dates so the contest can begin in August.
     
  14. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    Another thing, mind the vote system, the % I mean, because in the past there where some problems with the % of the voting in the last melee contest and in other contest too (popularity thing). The last time was 25% and the judges saids it was to much. 10-15% perhaps will be more ok?. So it won´t determine the winner the 25%.

    also in the rules say with wich versionn of the wc3 editor the users should work, I heard of some crashes with the 1.30, it would be good to have freedom with that too, to work with stable versions like the 1.26 even if they are older.

    also if there is doodad limit, size limit (imports) or some other limit for the map.

    "we will dicuss the dates so the contest can begin in August."

    sounds great!!

    I will decide in joining after seeing the rules ( I have some ideas in mind for 1vs1 melee maps and I really want to participate, but I want to see all the rules first)


    I edited my previus post:
    Melee map contest #2
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  15. mafe

    mafe

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    I would most definitely be interested. But it would help to check with Neo and Remo from back2warcraft first, to see if they have anything similar in theri plans, and if not, try to get them on board. Or maybe even reach out to Kam/Blizzard.

    Ok custom units etc: A very important question is "Should there be a bigger purpose to the contest or should it be a competition for the melee mapping scene itself?". In the first case, if we want to get new into the (competitive) melee scene, it makes a lot of scenes to restrict the contest to the rules of this scene, meaning in particulat (almost) no custom data. In the second case, the rules can be entirely up to us. Also reaching out to the competitive scene might motivate some skilled players try to create a map, which they otherwise wouldnt do (at least one such guy participated in the last contest), and could possibly get a small amount of prize money from somewhere.

    About the theme, I'm afraid if there is a too restrictive theme it will basically only have negative consequences: There are melee mapmakers but imho not enough that we should take the risks of a few people not participating simply because they dont like the theme (for example, in my case this would be something like setting an "outland" theme which I think will, sadly, never have any chance to deliver competitive maps if we use only what blizzard gives us in the editor).
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  16. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    "2) Imports/Custom data is allowed as long as it doesn't ruins the gameplay(custom doodads are OK, custom units are not)" by Mr.Henci


    Acording to Mr.Henci there cannot be custom units, but yes custom doodads for enviroment. Custom doodads for enviroment should be free to use since Blizzard doodads can have a lot of limitations. And we want our maps to look cool and original.

    Agree with you about a restrictive theme. Outland no please no, no no, even the dungeon tile set with that weird red water is better to do more things that the outland tile set.

    Also is important the WIP rules submition, so there won´t be copies from the very begining, or maps too similar by chance.
    A tile-set and layout check could be important for the very begining, just in case. Thats important.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  17. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    Guys, should we try a petition or something to exclude the tenth level dragons out of the roots for melee maps (for official ladder) so the roots would actually be used (like a merc camp)?
    What of fountains, what could we do to make them viable?
     
  18. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    Whoa, whoa, whoa . . .

    Here are my initial thoughts: Icon makers have their contests, model makers have their contest, same goes for music composers, spell creators, custom race makers, etc. Why shouldn't we, the melee map community on Hive have the same opportunity to host our own competition. First contest by B2W was a big one, which we will not have until they will feel like it again.

    The rules which I've presented were just the first step, so everybody can discuss them and provide us with their opinion. For now, they look something like this:

    1) The map must be suitable for 1v1 competitive play
    2) Imports/Custom data is allowed(It's fair I think, if somebody likes to work with custom objects, why he shouldn't he been allowed to) as long as it doesn't ruins the gameplay(custom doodads are OK, custom units are not)
    3) No. of players is unlimited, however map must fulfil the rule no.1

    The theme won't be a part of this contest, even thought I fear not everybody got the right image of what I meant by it in the first place. (Though I agree, that the number of participants could have been lower thanks to this.)

    Now, to the purpose of this contest. I know that first one by B2W set the bar quite high and I fear it is not in my power to have that big reach. It should be just a friendly contest of Hivers, but look, if somebody is willing enough to get B2W involved, I will be only happy.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    @deepstrasz your idea seems fair and I would support it personally. However, while Blizz doesn't implement the changes to the game, we shouldn't apply any of them to our maps during this contest, even though they could bring balance to some unused elements of W3
     
  19. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

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    True but we have to raise awareness somehow. Maybe, if we don't make the move, BlizzEnt won't. Just sayin'.
     
  20. Arrr

    Arrr

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    About custom data, I think mafe refers to the community maps recently added to the battle.net map pool which have had their custom data reset to standard, although I wonder if some people would not partecipate without imports.

    For exposure I think a post on the r/WC3 subreddit would be enough, and expanding on the involvement of more skilled players suggested by mafe, I wouldn't mind if there was the option to have teams of player + mapmaker in case either side was interested but not confident in one of the areas.

    Overall I agree with Mr.Henci about it being a friendly Hive contest, we shouldn't have that high expectations I feel.


    Fountains: right now they heal for 1% of maximum hp - I would divide it into a fixed amount + % hp, for example 2+0.5%.
    This formula makes it so that units at 400hp have the same hp/s and time needed to fully heal as before, while units below would take shorter with a higher hp/s and units above take longer with a lower hp/s than before.
     
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