1. Updated Resource Submission Rules: All model & skin resource submissions must now include an in-game screenshot. This is to help speed up the moderation process and to show how the model and/or texture looks like from the in-game camera.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. DID YOU KNOW - That you can unlock new rank icons by posting on the forums or winning contests? Click here to customize your rank or read our User Rank Policy to see a list of ranks that you can unlock. Have you won a contest and still havn't received your rank award? Then please contact the administration.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. We have recently started the 16th edition of the Mini Mapping Contest. The theme is mini RPG. Do check it out and have fun.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Dismiss Notice
  5. The Highway to Hell has been laid open. Come along and participate in the 5th Special Effect Contest.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Check out the Staff job openings thread.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Next Melee Mapping Contest: Pre-Contest discussion

Discussion in 'Submissions Archive' started by mafe, Nov 3, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mafe

    mafe

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    432
    Resources:
    11
    Maps:
    10
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    11
    I would wait for more opinions. However, my impression is that more people would be interested in 4v4 or 24 player maps than in 2v2 maps so far. As you may have understood by now, I primarily care about 1v1 though because that is what keeps the competitive wc3 scene alive, but I wouldnt mind anything else nevertheless.
    Thanks for asking. That very much depends on the timing on the contest. Due to my reallife job, I might be very busy from january to mid-april, which might be when the contest will be running. Also this might conflict with giving feedback to others, which I very much like to do ;)
     
  2. Blood Raven

    Blood Raven

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,200
    Resources:
    214
    Models:
    141
    Icons:
    44
    Packs:
    7
    Skins:
    7
    Maps:
    13
    Template:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    214
    I'd vote for 4 players too. I'm still up for 1v1 aswell, but if it's more than 4 players I'd pass, I don't have enough free time to make a larger map.
     
  3. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    744
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I did this poll

    3rd Melee contest poll question

    it won´t decide nothing, but it may help us to know:

    1) who wants to participate.

    2) which number of players should be for the 3rd melee contest.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  4. JSRGN

    JSRGN

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Messages:
    23
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I just don't see the practical point of a 2v2 contest, given that the 2v2 ladder map pool has recently seen new and high-quality additions. 4v4 and larger maps, (new 12-24 player maps) is where the actual void of fresh map options currently resides.

    A 4v4 map contest would see my participation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  5. Knecht

    Knecht

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Messages:
    99
    Resources:
    7
    Maps:
    7
    Resources:
    7
    You know, there might be enough time for 2 contests before W3R release. Although it would be a hustle not only for creators, but for judges and management as well i believe. That said, I can't say I'd have as much free time on my hands as to put out so many maps.
     
  6. JSRGN

    JSRGN

    Joined:
    May 3, 2018
    Messages:
    23
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    4v4 hasn't seen a community map added since the inception of Frozen Throne, and now more than ever, that way of things is finally open to change. There is time for multiple contests before Reforged is released. Let's get some 4v4 maps happening soon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  7. Remixer

    Remixer

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,599
    Resources:
    52
    Models:
    19
    Packs:
    1
    Maps:
    31
    Template:
    1
    Resources:
    52
    The catch here is that handing out a theme gives people inspiration and certain guidelines to work with. As you already noticed yourself a theme definition is very, very broad 'swamp' can be frozen, fiery, toxic, natural, tropical, even dried out swamp. The key is that participants would have the same 'key idea' behind the map and still we'd see very very different maps. I often run into the problem - "Okay now what am I going to do - where do I start" especially with contests, as they are often forced creation - not intuitive inspiration.

    And even if we put a quite specific 'keyword' to the contest, like 'Giant's Forge' we might see maps utilising larger creeps (like ogres), perhaps a hill or a mountain that would be called Giant's Forge, or perhaps something very unique and foxy.
     
  8. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    744
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    And if an user decides to not stick to the theme?? punish??? as example theme is swamp, and he makes a very very balanced city theme

    or if an user puts 5 swamps and other user put only 1, the 5 wins??

    I can find it problematic

    I remember a terraining contest of castles, a theme was needed to find the best castles,

    but here is to find the best melee. and for the moment the focus is more in balance (playable) than in enviroment.
     
  9. Remixer

    Remixer

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,599
    Resources:
    52
    Models:
    19
    Packs:
    1
    Maps:
    31
    Template:
    1
    Resources:
    52
    Well the thematic score shouldn't be high, so in that case the city themed map would have quite high chance of winning. Unless there was a map following the theme which was as balanced. I'd say the 'Creativity' score could be replaced with thematic score, so we're talking about perhaps 5% score here.
     
  10. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    744
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I may agree with theme but it must be wide, things like "giant or forged" can be confusing.

    swamps, city, fire, ice, water, fell, skulls, ruins

    with those there is no chance that an user would not understand the theme.


    it should be considered that the theme can be followed with no imported materials, for those who wish to maybe get to blizzard by chance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  11. W3Sour

    W3Sour

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    47
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I think we shouldnt focus on 24 player map next... We really need more TEAM competitive maps in MODES that are ALREADY being played right now on BNET.

    - The 2v2 mappool got some injection of a couple community maps (Sister She's 'Synergy' was one) , I think adding another 1 would be great.
    - The 3v3 mappool is very lackluster atm, and one reason is a LACK of good 3v3 maps. We need 2+ community maps in there.
    - Many 4v4 players are also requesting new 4v4 competitive maps... 4v4 is the most popular melee game mode in wc3 in terms of people playing/searching it... They have had the same maps for the last 15 years, unlike 1v1 which got many community maps of the years like Last Refuge, Amazonia and the current iteration of community maps such as Swamped Temple...

    A TEAM-BASED (2v2/3v3/4v4) competitive map contest is very much needed guys.

    (FFA and 24 player maps can come later)

    about HALF of the 1v1 pool is community maps atm,
    2 community maps in 2v2
    0 community maps in 3v3/4v4...
     
  12. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    12,171
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Still no. For such maps the contest time will be much more. You can always work on precontest maps and upload them in Maps.
    I am not an administrator, not even a moderator. All I can decide is the status of a map in Maps.
    Yeah and I guess the theme will still get less points than balance.
    Who doesn't respect the theme get 0 to the theme judging rubric. I don't think we should get so dramatic as to eliminate the contestant.
    Indeed.
     
  13. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    744
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    guys for the theme map and enviroment stuff: there is a...mmmm another terraining contest thread.

    Another terraining contest
     
  14. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    12,171
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Terraining contests are not meant for playable maps...
     
  15. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    744
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    3rd Melee contest poll question

    Hi everybody,

    an idea (nothing is written in stone yet)

    the poll is helping a lot (I talked to Naze), for the moment the poll will be rolled 1 week more to see what happen (since users can change their mind, and change their votes),
    Anybody can change their vote anytime ( I did it 2 times)

    for the moment the tendency is that the result is split in 2

    1vs1 and 4v4 player maps.

    I think everybody will be happy if we think of this like an hamburger (bread meat, bread, where bread is the 1vs1 and meat the 4v4 player maps

    we had recently a 1vs1 contest, so we can have now the 4v4, and after that the 1vs1 (is an idea), and I think with it everybody will be happy since both contest can be done.

    about the 4v4, at first I feared big maps, but after do some small test I can say:

    a 4v4 map can be done 130x130 , 4 players up, 4 players down, or side side.
    in the 2nd melee contest my map had 128x128, is not that big

    so it can be done in 1 month, or 1 month plus 1 week,


    and if there is a chance to fill the void of 0 comunity maps in 4v4 category, is an interesting chance.

    again nothing is written in stone, is just an idea, but is very nice to see so many users with the willing of make maps and have contest

    edit of topic: while we wait.



    see ya
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  16. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    132
    Resources:
    4
    Maps:
    4
    Resources:
    4
    Don't go into theme task. Let people do their own thing on their map and let them focus on balance :D
     
  17. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    744
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Balance will be still the main objetive, so those maps can be played even in a very minor league.

    About the theme, users asked theme in the 2nd, and it was restrained, so maybe a bit of theme can be used, it can be tyrant to avoid themes forever, and is not to me to decide, so: another poll

    The 3rd melee contest should have theme? if yes wich?
     
  18. JaleVeliki

    JaleVeliki

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    132
    Resources:
    4
    Maps:
    4
    Resources:
    4
    EDIT: lots of edits

    Doing themes in wc3 MELEE contest is super restricting. With already very limited assets in the world editor, it will be hard to produce something unique. Also, I imagine people wouldn't be all that thrilled to be checking out 20-30 consecutive FIRE maps, seeing fire and red in every single one, getting bored by the third one.

    Instead, the contest should focus on MELEE...the best map should be interesting without any decoration at all.
    Decoration is just a cherry on top that adds that extra flavor to the theme. It is also what I imagine many people here on Hive want to see from such contests: variety and new, unique ideas.

    Please, leave the 'artistic theme contest' to many appropriate contests that already exist and stay with 'melee map contest' like a competitive 4v4 that pushes new ideas and strategies that haven't been seen before. Let people pick their own theme and create something new.

    Something amazing and out-of-the-box such as 'Aetherium' would have never happened if we pushed 'a theme', be it competitive or not.

    @Ragnaros17
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  19. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2017
    Messages:
    744
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    In the second melee contest, when some users manifested the will to have theme to spice the thing, I opposed with a lot of energy, saying things like " 10 barrens maps will be boring as hell", and in the second melee contest there was no theme.

    In fact, I am restraining of voting, but if I had to vote now, I will vote for NO THEME, but I want to see how the poll develops


    I feel that 1 voice shouldn´t silence many, Doing that forever could be tyrant, this is the chance for those who would like theme contest to have a theme contest in melee.

    theme will have low score, balance will be the main objetive, and is not that it should be something so big.

    Make things like ponds, craters , a village is not big deal, you can use a small portions of maps to do and follow the theme.

    You can use any tile set, actually and fit the theme. You can have a frozen curse in outland or ashenvale.


    edit:

    "we had recently a 1vs1 contest, so we can have now the 4v4, and after that the 1vs1 (is an idea), and I think with it everybody will be happy since both contest can be done."

    or have another 1vs1 now like to train and improve the skills, and then have the 4v4 with much more experience, that can be usefull too.



    to me map a 1vs1 or 4vs4 is almost the same (I prefer the 4v4), as long I can map something for a contest (because I am reserving my willing of map only for a contest, if not I am not mapping nothing).
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  20. mafe

    mafe

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2013
    Messages:
    432
    Resources:
    11
    Maps:
    10
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    11
    I think so too, but I''m not sure how it interacts with the beta of reforged that will surely be out at some point. If we can port maps by then, it might be perfect to test them there. On the other hand, if the reforged world editor isnt out by then or maps cant be ported for a different reason, it might be a bad time as then this must be done on the "old" wc3 when I supose many people will want to play the beta instead.
    Ok I have to be a know-it-all here and defend blizzard, even though it is on technical terms:
    There are at least 7/11 community maps in the 1v1 ladder pool.
    At least 4/11 in 2v2.
    And at least 1/12 in 4v4.
    Proof to be found here: Warcraft III - Maps - Map Contest and (in german) here Thread: Blizzard Map Contest Gewinner bekannt « readmore.de
    It's just that these maps have been around since a long time, some where included shortly after the TFT release. Which makes me all the more optimistic that the time around the release of reforged might be a very good time for new maps.


    So to summarize the current state of discussion, it seems to me that the majority would be happy with a contest under the following conditions
    -A tendency to 4v4 maps (I suppose that as is common practice already, many 4v4 maps would also make good FFA maps). 1v1 being the main alternative and not far behind though.
    -No imports, so that the maps can be ported to reforged. Not entirely sure about custom doodads yet?
    -No specific theme otherwise.
    -The duration of the contest could be a bit longer than one month on account of the longer time it takes to create a 4v4 map.

    The topic of "creativity" and the scoring system are still a cause of uncertainty though.

    For judges, @W3Sour has volunteered so far. Did you do this with having 1v1 maps in mind, or would you also be happy with 4v4 maps? I've also taken the liberty to ask someone who I believe would make a great judge and said he might be interested. What about our previous judges, @Sister She , @deepstrasz , @twojstaryjakcie ?

    Finally, I like to apologize to anyone who I might have offended by suggesting "melee-map-landscaping-contest". I believe I was a bit condescending sometimes. Sorry. Would you agree that speaking of "fun-first" and "balance-first" melee maps would be more appropriate?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.