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Next Melee Mapping contest Pre-disscusion

Discussion in 'Submissions Archive' started by Mr.Henci, Feb 17, 2019.

?

What maps would you like to create for the next contest?

  1. 1v1

    55.6%
  2. 2v2

    72.2%
  3. 3v3

    22.2%
  4. 4v4

    5.6%
  5. 4 Players FFA

    33.3%
  6. 6 Players FFA

    5.6%
  7. 8 Players FFA

    5.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    I understand that many people collaborated with the map Synergy, but my point is that Synergy is a map made by 1 user, not like Elemental tower TD that was made by 5 users.

    I was thinking in the 4th contest, one thing is collaboration, give hints here and there and maybe a beta test, like the 8 users of discord did in my map.
    And other thing is to design a map co-author like "mafe & Jaleveliki like "Nerubians in Felwood""
    Co-author, the work should be half-half or a clear separation.

    If one user is the terrainer, that user gets all the work, define loot, beta test and point bugs, seems like a very secondary work.

    Of course a map can be designed half-half but it really requires "a lot of time" and "get along"
     
  2. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    @Ragnaros17 you are looking too much into it. Collaborations can be great options for many, you don't need to do it if you don't like it. It is not your buisness who is the primary and who is secondary map creator, if they agreed to create the map toghether, it will belong to both of them and they can split it in any way they want. Or did I get something wrong in your post?
     
  3. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    Yes, maybe I didn´t explain my point well.
    I just did the long speech stating that team work should be optional.
    Because there are contest where teams are mandatory, and I don´t want mandatory teams contest.
    That should be well explained in the rules, thats all.
     
  4. sentrywiz

    sentrywiz

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    I wholeheartedly agree with @Ragnaros17 on this.

    @Mr.Henci you might have overlooked a critical rule in this and future contests.
    You ignore the benefits and cons of a teamwork made map, and how big of an impact it can have.

    For the sake of argument, since I ranked dead last in this contest, I can prove my theory by
    joining the next contest with another map maker, as a control group. Two heads bash and fight
    each other, thus resulting in ideas being polished. An alone map maker is a specialist, two or more
    are a team and you can expect the unexpected from teamwork, good or bad.


    Also, I ranked last because I like making other kinds of maps. Never made melee other than Spacing v1.1 Rain Forest, and even that one is
    stretching the limits of melee, or rather... limiting them. So it was fun for me to see if my experience got me
    through... and oh look at the results!

    Anyway, point was and is - Team work is either in or out. If not, I can join by myself and get 10 other people
    to polish the map for me. Then I'll get all the credit if I win. That's neither fair nor fun for everyone else.
     
  5. mafe

    mafe

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    Due to reallife, I havent really been keeping up with the developments here in depth.
    My current point of view is that 2v2 could be a good idea, with the new warcraft3.info team league coming up, and the organizers there open for new maps (there will be one 2v2 per clanwar), as they have included two of @Mr.Henci 's maps in the mappool. Maybe we can reach out to see how long they expect the first season to last, so that we can have the contest concluded some time before hopefully the second season will begin, and maybe a map has a shot to be included there. A 2v2 map also shouldnt be as time-consuming as a 4v4 map.

    I am not sure if I will participate as a mapper this time. However, if you guys are ok with that, I would like to try being the host/a judge this time. Though this would mean I will probably not be available for feedback or testing while the contest is running.
     
  6. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    judge great!!
     
  7. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    @Ragnaros17 yes, the team of 2 would be optional, I've never said it should be only team contest, but having an option to work as a team can bring even more polished and better maps.

    @sentrywiz not sure I'm following you buddy. Teamwork is a nice option in my opinion, not sure if you are for it or against it. And yes, we rely on user honesty, there is no way we can prove the map hasn't been made by 100 users at the moment.

    @mafe even though we will miss your map in this one, offering to be a judge is a great news. If you want to host a next contest, sure, go ahead. I don't own it in the end :D If you feel, like you can do a better job thanks to your contacts in the whole W3 community, I would be happy to leave you all the contest management.
    ----
    EDIT: Also, I was thinking we can start this weekend, meaning 1st - 3rd March. Are you guys ok with that? Also, we don't really need that much time with 2v2 maps, so maybe 3 weeks should be enough, meaning the end would be around 23rd-ish March. What do you guys think?
     
  8. mmtt

    mmtt

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    sounds great
     
  9. Restor

    Restor

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    2v2 sounds great! But give us at least a two month time :p, last time I joined only after Christmas and had only few weeks to finish it :p
     
  10. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    It can start friday 1st and end sunday 7 april, five weeks?

    contest shure have mapping time of 1 month, or 1 month and 1 week,
    consider that if we start in march 1 month mapping, 1 month judge, the contest results will be in may.

    extentions can be granted if a lot of users are falling behind. but
    if you dont get in time but the others does, is your bussiness,
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  11. Mr.Henci

    Mr.Henci

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    @mmtt glad it suits you. @Restor 2 months would be an overkill. 4v4 maps are huge and take a lot of time, but most of the user managed to pull it of in less than a 6 weeks. So, like you, joined in late, yet managed to finish their maps to a contest worthy level. 2v2 maps are much smaller in scale, thus require less time.

    @Ragnaros17 do you really need that long though? I have a feeling many start their maps 2-3 weeks before deadline, so I tought it will be enough time for mappers to finish, with maybe 1 week extension to 1st April. Let's see what others think and how @mafe will react, since he seems to be in charge now.
     
  12. Ragnaros17

    Ragnaros17

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    well so start friday 1st and end sunday 31?? 4 weeks is ok to me , hope the others are also ok.

    Important!!


    I feel that a poll is necesary (in a similar way like the theme contest based) to know in a fast way what is the tendecy regarding teamwork in the 4th contest.

    not an oficial poll. a cheap/ one to know users opinions in a fast and easy way.
    I am not organicing this contest, probably @mafe will, this may help him to decide and if necesary write new rules about it.

    if teamwork is a go

    there should be rules about this cases
    1) Teamwork is limited to X numbers of users (I think two is the number Terrainer/Balancer??)

    2) If 1 of the 2 users of the teams drops because of RL, the other user can:
    a) continue the original entry alone.
    b) team with a new user, but start a new entry (fair for both users ??)

    3) If both users want to disband and continue alone or make team with others users, they have to submit both new entries , none of them can use the old entry of the team after disband and continue both in the contest alone or in others teams.

    I can only think this two situations wich may require a pre-defined rules just in case.

    except the rules of teamwork, I think we should use the same pack of rules

    20% poll 80% judges, 15% creativity, 35% terrain, 50%balance and the rest of the stuff.

    4th melee contest may allow optional teamwork?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  13. Knecht

    Knecht

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    Whoa, I completely forgot about this thread. Tbh, I'm not really sure about joining the next contest, a lot of work to be done irl. I'm all for teams though, some might be better at balancing, other at terrain, teams might help some creators out.

    @mafe Ah, lovely to see you take on the post of judge. Well suited for it.
     
  14. mafe

    mafe

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    So, if I'm going to host it, I will at the very least need several days to set everything up, especially since this will be the first time for me doing anything like it.

    The early possible schedule (assuming everything goes right) would probably be something like this.
    -Contest announced next weekend.
    -Contest starts on March 15 (a short amount of time before announcement and start seems to be customary)
    -Contest concludes on April 14.

    One downside for this is that May will be relatively busy for me, so I might take a while to come with the scores.

    However, imho the last contest results are out for a relatively short time. I still get regular notifications of people updating their maps from the contest, so it is not like everyone has nothing to do right now ;) Maybe some people even would like to polish their 4v4 map before mocing on to the next map? Any opinions on this?

    I dont mind teamwork being allowed.

    @Naze would you be happy to be the appointed moderator once again?
    Are there any further suggestions for judges? @W3Sour @WTii how about you?
     
  15. Naze

    Naze

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    Sure!

    When you make the contest thread just tag me in it and I'll make sure it is okay before I do the moving around and set up the official announcements for the contest.

    However we usually wait a month or so before another contest of the same type. What do you think?

    Regarding judges, in addition to possibly W3sour and WTii, you can take a look at someone who didn't participate in the end of the contest (like Knecht is saying he probably won't) and invite the person.
     
  16. XanderD

    XanderD

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    Speaking as one of those currently polishing their map from the last contest, I'd still be able to start a new map project. It would only mean that my tower defense will be postponed.

    And about judges again - I could ask some people but I don't want it to look like I'm picking anyone who would favor me. So if you want me to go around and ask some people, just tell me.
     
  17. DuckDuckGoose

    DuckDuckGoose

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    Not sure about others but if the next contest is in mid march then thats plenty of time for me to make changes to my map.
     
  18. XanderD

    XanderD

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    I would like to nominate Chaco ( Twitch ). As an experienced caster he knows the game well and of course also a lot about the mechanics and map balances and all the other tasty stuff we're looking for in a qualified judge.
     
  19. Hi2Chaco

    Hi2Chaco

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    Yeah, if you guys want to, I'll gladly judge your competition.
     
  20. XanderD

    XanderD

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    I also asked Happy and Grubby, but they both told me, that they wouldn't have time for this job unfortunately.
     
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