[Role Playing Game] Monster Master RPG II: The 13th Gate

[Deathly_God]

Looks great to me! Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see how things turn out! Sadly I'll probably miss the release, but I'll be sure to check it out on MMH when I get the chance!

 

[laserdemon]

Hi everyone,

There will be a new version released this week, at latest by Thursday.

The new version will include two new quests, a dungeon, a few new monsters to capture, and also a boss battle. There will be some minor bug/interface fixes as well.

I hope you will keep your promise

 

[sethmachine]

Updated to Alpha v1.3; changelog

Hi everyone,

Many thanks again for all your patience. I've updated the OP and added a link for the new version. It is also on makemehost.com (check OP for the filenames).

This update focuses on adding more gameplay content. If there are any serious bugs let me know so I can roll out a new version.

For future updates, I am debating between these things, let me know what people would like to see the most.

1. Improved terrain/environment/atmosphere/etc.

2. Improved interface (e.g. easier time using dialog boxes

3. Breeding system

4. Saving/Loading system (code based).

5. Improved NPC dialog/story lines

I am leaning towards 1 only because all I've been doing is coding, and it would be refreshing to do something new. I know many people really want a Save/Load system. I think I could try to implement one for an upcoming release (the next or after the next) if it's something everyone really wants. I hesitate only because when the map is out of alpha, all the codes won't carry over to the beta.

Note that while the changelog is small and it might not seem a lot has changed, I had to write in a lot of new code for some new systems (bosses in particular), and the commit log (the technical details of each change to the code) is quite big, just most of it was stuff to make the coding API easier, most of which doesn't translate to new content for the players. If someone wants to see the actual commit log, PM me and I can send it.

Changelog

Bugs Fixed (???)

-Looked through the commit log, but I don't remember if there were any bugs specifically to be fixed. Remind me if there some annoying ones and I can roll out a new version today, if they are minor.

Changes

-Added two new quests: "A Cure for Madness" and "Rock the Cazbar!" Both quests can be completed fully.

-Added three new areas: Castle Cazbar, Kalka Sewers, and the Sunchamber. Castle Cazbar is the castle inside Cazbar, which can now be accessed if "Rock the Cazbar!" quest is completed. Kalka Sewers is the very first dungeon of the map, though for all purposes it looks more like a Zelda-esque water temple. Kalka Sewers is accessible when completing "A Cure for Madness" quest. It also contains three new Monster species and a new Monster family as well. Finally, the Sunchamber is a special inner area inside the Kalka Sewers. It is part of the finale for the "A Cure for Madness" quest.

-Added the very first boss battle. In my testing it should be challenging, and the boss scales with the number of players fighting it. I recommend bringing a large group of players to take it out--it would be quite difficult to solo as things stand. The boss is also scripted--simply mobbing it won't be enough to kill it, and it features its own intro scene/cinematic as well.

 

[hopop201]

I would say implement breeding next as that is one of, if not the biggest part of the map. Also, I would suggest putting off adding save codes until beta or after adding breeding at the soonest. Until breeding is added there really is no big reason to save your progress.

 

[Deathly_God]

I would say implement breeding next as that is one of, if not the biggest part of the map. Also, I would suggest putting off adding save codes until beta or after adding breeding at the soonest. Until breeding is added there really is no big reason to save your progress.

I'd second this. The save/load is mostly for when people start to really host this for more-than-testing purposes, which will be a while from now anyways. Ultimately though, do what you feel you should do.

Terrain is always a nice break, but that also begs the question of how will you transition your current map terrain into a(n) (I'm assuming larger map), and possibly a different style? Currently the map seems to function fine for testing purposes, but obviously to get all the monsters/systems/areas you want in, it's going to need to be substantially better. Do you plan on just editing the current map's dimensions, or starting from scratch on a newer, final-esque size?

Either way, I personally love the update logs! Keep up the great work, but don't burn yourself out! I think it would be the most devastating personally if this project died off part-way through development... Not that you strike me as that sort of editor, but I've seen a lot of projects with a lot of potential just get dropped

 

[sethmachine]

Updated Alpha v1.3; quick fixes

Hi everyone,

The attached map in the OP and on makemehost.com has been updated with a new map that fixed a few annoying bugs, many pointed out to me by Noxx- (thanks for the help!). If there are bugs that I haven't addressed, feel free to PM me so I can get to them ASAP, especially if they are game breaking.

Bug fixes

-Fixed a bug where the warp staff item would stop working after completing Rock the Cazbar! quest. It should now work again.

-Fixed a bug where right clicking on a villager unit would cause the player to teleport to the Monster Farm.

-Fixed a bug where the Priest's dialog would be replaced by Abu Dhabi's during A Cure for Madness quest.

how will you transition your current map terrain into a(n) (I'm assuming larger map)...Do you plan on just editing the current map's dimensions

Good question. I've thought about this a lot, seeing as I'm using 256x256 map size now, and around 50% of the map space is already used up for the first world (which still will have an additional 1-2 dungeons as well).

What will probably happen is that I'll either increase the map size and somehow adjust the current terrain, or, instead of having the game all on one map, I'll create "expansion" maps which add new (plot) worlds/dungeons. The downside with the expansion idea is that old quest world's can't be revisited. But I am hoping to fit at least 1-2 more worlds in the current map before getting to this decision.

At some point I am going to also try to do a dungeon and world generation system as well. That would provide a near infinite number of new worlds, all in a single map.

As for the project dying, I've made plans so that if for whatever reason I have to stop development, the source will be made available. And because it's all under version control and uses object oriented programming, it is very easy to learn how to script the map (for vJASS coders).

 

[Deathly_God]

Hi everyone,
What will probably happen is that I'll either increase the map size and somehow adjust the current terrain, or, instead of having the game all on one map, I'll create "expansion" maps which add new (plot) worlds/dungeons. The downside with the expansion idea is that old quest world's can't be revisited. But I am hoping to fit at least 1-2 more worlds in the current map before getting to this decision.

At some point I am going to also try to do a dungeon and world generation system as well. That would provide a near infinite number of new worlds, all in a single map.

Personally, I'd like to see it all on one map, since that would encourage multi-player a bit more. If you made them all separate maps, you could only play with people who were at the same'ish level as you, which would kill a lot of diversity and idea spreading. It would also make it difficult for people to get into your game, as most hosters would not be hosting the easiest maps to start in, which could cause problems. That's just my view on it though, as this game is already a separate map from #1, making this one a more-fragmented map would be a little crazy ha ha!

 

[Kamakase]

Hey Sethmachine I am really keen to see Monster Master remake, you are a obviously a really strong willed person to take on a big project and doing it again from scratch Good job. Progress is coming along great so cool keep it up.

Also i have to ask what will you be doing with the tier system will their be the usual tier 1, 2, 3, 4, and ??? or will you be doing something different?
I also hope you will give a bit more variation to the monster which you will start with and make the shopping system like in the first one instead of just the one shop with super expensive items. Also the Ambush system is still a bit buggy, like it said Dune worm lvl 1 appeared when really it was a lvl 4 and it sucks when you get ambushed by 2-3 monsters at once while you are already battling one then you have no chance AND are you still working on the XP system? because the levels come way to slow please make that at least a little faster than in version one.

Again thoe I am very happy to see this map continued Thank you and good luck

 

[noob]

Maybe do the level 1-5 and 15-20 the same map and the levels 5-10 and 20-25 the same map and so on this way when hosting maps for pro you would be also hosting an map for noobs and the two kind of players would see each other.

 

[hopop201]

I personally agree with Deathly_God that there should be really only one map but I have the idea of also having 3-4 challenge world maps. These maps cannot just be played by anyone, you have to find a key to one of these worlds before you can visit them (of course). The maps will consist of a single world with some dungeons and nothing else. You will have no access to GreatBark meaning that no breeding and no access to the Monster farm. You can still catch monsters if you have room in your farm but you can not switch them with the monster with you. The monsters with you (saved in your code), are the monsters you use throughout the whole map. These maps would be for 1-4 people. These worlds will test your monsters and be a great place to level for the very late game. You could have one key obtained during the main story so that people will know about them, but the rest of the keys will have to be obtained in the randomly generated worlds. As I'm guessing will already happen, the keys for the worlds will be saved in your code so the map will check that you have the correct key to play in the world. That is my input to the whole multiple maps discussion, and it would be really cool if you could eventually make this happen.

 

[Deathly_God]

That is my input to the whole multiple maps discussion, and it would be really cool if you could eventually make this happen.

I like this idea, however I think a slightly cooler implementation if this route was going to be pursued was something like in Forlorn RPG, with the raid-mode that you could activate, which would essentially turn all the bosses into a much higher level, stronger version of themselves, along with all of the dungeons themselves. This way, you don't have to re-terrain another map, and you can make a much more interesting late-game. Otherwise you could do something like Hunter's Guild ORPG, where random bosses can spawn per-game, and if you do the higher difficulty, then more of them will spawn, and each will be harder (including chances for the hardest boss in the game to spawn).

A cool healing idea they had in that one, that I really liked, was that their healing spell healed whatever amount of health the character was currently at (so if they were at 10%, they'd be healed by 10% of their health). They also you could combo it with another healing spell for a very high health heal, plus an added rejuvenation added on to the target. Having a spell combo-system in my opinion could be a really cool fluff feature later on! Like maybe a Black Powder as a curse-styled miss-rate spell, and then having a Fireball launched at the target would cause increased damage, as it would ignite the Black Powder. Just food for thought.

 

[hopop201]

That all seems very complicated for this game Deathly_God. We don't want this to become too ambitious.

 

[smasher5541]

I think its not complicated but it should give u that choice everytime u start a area, so that it allows new players to play without having to work too hard.

 

[Deathly_God]

That all seems very complicated for this game Deathly_God. We don't want this to become too ambitious.

Well in all honesty, the multiple difficulty levels are fairly easy to implement, you just have an alternative spawning system for dungeons to make them harder, so really you just provide an alternate level/monster list from which the spawner can choose from. That's it really, no terrain changes needed. Really it's just food for thought though

 

[sethmachine]

Thanks for the discussion on the multiple maps issue. It is relevant but I think I went out of scope, as the map hasn't even gotten into an acceptable beta yet. In the very long run, I can see there being (bonus) expansion maps, which of course can't be played unless you've got certain keys or have progressed in certain quests.

We don't want this to become too ambitious.

Well I like to think of it as am ambitious project--in the longer term if the project gets more members these kind of things will feasible, but yes as a single person project I agree it's important to set boundaries, otherwise risk never completing anything at all.

In any case, there won't be a new version for quite a bit of time. When I went to add the monster breeder NPC (the most complicated so far), I had enough with how bad the code, and so I decided to re-write the entire NPC class. However, because a lot of other data structures make use of the NPC class (quests in particular), it sort of messes up the rest of the code. So essentially I am revising/changing a lot of code. It was all functional, but scripting everything was too tedious in the current API.

Depending on my motivation and other things, I would expect sending out an update by the end of the month. It will include several things:

-A revised NPC dialog system. There will be pages and overall it will be less tedious to interact with NPCs (e.g. withdrawing items, changing out monsters, etc.).

-Breeding. There will be a new NPC in Greatbark called the Monster Breeder. Through him two monsters (opposite genders) which are both level 10 or higher can be bred, producing an offspring. The two monsters leave forever back into the wild on their honey moon.

-Revised terrain. I'm going to improve the terrain of Greatbark / the monster farm.

Most of my focus will be on the NPCs / reworking the code, followed by getting the Monster Breeder ready.

 

[hopop201]

So lets leave all this multiple maps and having higher level monsters discussion away for now. What I what to know is if we can help you make the breeding charts?

 

[Deathly_God]

Personally, I've been thinking the priority log for the core-game mechanic's should go something like, Breeding, then a new zone and a save system at the same level of priority, and then once some new zones are ironed out, along with some quests, then some minor balancing should be done, early-game wise at least.

My argument for the save being on par with a new zone is mostly that, with a bit more work being needed to reach the new content, having a primitive save/load system, even one that only holds the monsters and not their stat growths, would speed up testing so that we wouldn't have to tediously go through the starting zone for every new update. Additionally, it would make breeding a lot easier to test. Just my thoughts on this however.

Also, is there a way to read a file-name as your code? Because I was thinking, if you posted into the notepad form a crazy long string, but were able to make it so that you just did like, -load Monster Master Level 29 it would go to that file in the Wc3 directory, and read the long string in order to load out the selected monsters. Just an idea I had bouncing around though.

 

[hopop201]

I completely agree with you Deathly_God. And It would be really good if that would work with the save code. Edit: I am pretty sure it does work as I think Robbepop uses one such system for GoH RPg.

 

[Deathly_God]

Finally got around to testing the latest version! So, I'll compile a list of things I've noticed.

Firstly, the sewers quest is accessible right at the start (not sure if it's supposed to be), however the "where to go" spell only shows the flowers (I took that quest first, I'll have to look into it more to see if it'll work right if sewers was taken first).
When you use an apple on a monster, it says that you fed it meat, just a weird text bit. Also I think a % success rate to be shown after you feed a monster would help a lot, both for testing and for in the actual game. Also, you can't feed a monster that has an anti-magic shell (really damn annoying).

The Mummy doesn't have an icon right now (but I'm sure you're aware of this). Also, despawning in the sewers doesn't seem to work properly. I left some mummies a long time ago near the entrance, came back a while later and they were still there. Additionally, Cripple and a couple other spells like Anti-Magic shield should have a ranged cast on them.
After I finished the flowers quest, I noticed the quest location spell didn't work on the sewer quests whatsoever.

Also, I figured out the bug where sometimes +1 damage tomes would be dropped instead of used by monsters. When a monster leveled through killing another monster with their q, the character freeze made the auto-pickup of the tome not function correctly.

Also, you apparently cannot teleport out of the boss room. Not sure if that's intentional or not.

For the sewer zone in general, I noticed a LOT of monsters were spawning, I'm not sure that's intentional (4+ at a time, and all over the place). If it is intentional, I'd suggest shortening the maze walk a little bit, and increasing agro range/patterns so things try to swarm you a bit more instead of spawning on the other side of the water and running away. (Ironically, running after the monsters only caused more to spawn, many of whom would also try to run away, leading to pockets full of 20+ mummies and other goodies piled up).
I also think, for balancing sake, Searing Arrows damage should be at least doubled, or the mana cost should be cut to 1/4th of it's current charge, because it's just not useful right now.

Finally, I think the lack of reward for finishing that final quest should be made more apparent, since you give the same answer of "????" for the graveyard one, but you get a chance at the monster AFTER the quest for the graveyard.

Once I figured out the boss fight, I really enjoyed the challenge! Nice job! I think perhaps instead of making all damage 0, just make each trigger have an intensity stacking super-regeneration aura on him or something, and it changes (up to x4) depending on the number of levers pulled. That way when the player clicks on the boss, they aren't wondering why they can do like 5% of the bosses health, and nothing more. Looking back, it should have been obvious, but I think having an aura indicator or some sort of buff on the boss with a tool-tip about the light/levers would help.
These are just things I noticed while playing through the latest version though, nicely done overall! As always, it was a lot of fun to play!

Attached is my Wurm, who had (nearly?) perfect attack stat, crazy high (relatively speaking) health gain, and all around amazing stats. 10/10 would Wurm again! I'll miss the little guy.

 

[hopop201]

All I have to say to that post, Deathly_God, is SUPER WURM AWAY!!!

 

[hopop201]

All's quiet on the Monster Master front . . . for now . . . again.

 

[Deathly_God]

Yeah....

 

[hopop201]

Yup . . .

 

[sethmachine]

Firstly, the sewers quest is accessible right at the start

It's not supposed to be. I tried accessing the sewers before completing the related quests and wasn't able to enter. Could you remember what quests / stuff you had done when you were able to enter the Sewers when you shouldn't have been able to?

the "where to go" spell only shows the flowers

Yup it only works for the tutorial and flowers quest at the moment. I have to do a path finding system to make it work correctly for all the quests, which isn't a super high priority right now.

The Mummy doesn't have an icon right now (but I'm sure you're aware of this)

Yup I was. I couldn't find out why the icon wasn't working even though I tested and imported it properly.

despawning in the sewers doesn't seem to work properly

I'll need to test this again, but when I tested it it despawned fine. I believe the despawn rate is set around 45 seconds, and if anyone enters the area, they won't despawn.

When a monster leveled through killing another monster with their q, the character freeze made the auto-pickup of the tome not function correctly.

Yes, you are the first person to notice this bug or at least mention it to me. I've known about it before the first release but I hadn't gotten around to fixing it, since nobody mentioned it, and there aren't save codes yet, so there's no real harm.

But it is a bug that does need to be addressed.

you apparently cannot teleport out of the boss room.

This is done on purpose. The only way to leave is by dying or beating the boss.

the lack of reward for finishing that final quest should be made more apparent, since you give the same answer of "????" for the graveyard one, but you get a chance at the monster AFTER the quest for the graveyard.

There is meant to be a reward for that quest and the other new quests. I just did not make them in time for the release.

However, after completing the sewers quest, the water should be 'different.'

just make each trigger have an intensity stacking super-regeneration aura on him or something, and it changes (up to x4) depending on the number of levers pulled

This was my original intent, but I want to let the boss occasionally flip the switches back on. With super regen he could heal back all the damage and it would make it a lot harder. What the current system does is instead make sure he maintains the damage you put on him, in case the mirrors get turned on again.

Right now that doesn't happen (unless someone is trolling), but it might in a future version.

it should have been obvious, but I think having an aura indicator or some sort of buff on the boss with a tool-tip about the light/levers would help

It's meant to be sort of a puzzle and even a little frustrating if the player doesn't get it the first time. I don't want to hold everyone's hand, and people can of course ask if they get really stumped.

In regards to the project, I will not be releasing a new version at the end of this month.

This is because I decided to re-do a lot of the code when I was working on making the monster breeder.

I will post an update on when to expect a new version. It will include the breeder and hopefully a save/load system (code based).

 

[Deathly_God]

The start of the Sewer's quest was active for me, with the Juggler guy wanting me to have 3 monsters in order to do the show (nice touch btw, I thought it was really amusing to watch!)

I can't remember exactly, but I believe I had died in the sewers, and spent a few minutes running around training my monsters outside before returning to find the mummies were still there. I'm not sure if it's just mummies either, or if it extends to all the possible spawns.

I noticed that the water changed from green to blue when I defeated the boss, but I'm not sure what that was supposed to do besides aesthetics ha ha!

I just figured the regeneration might make it a little clearer, and a little more challenging for the players. Or if you're doing the set health, maybe make it so that each lever covers 20% of his health? That way the players can lower it a bit before actually realizing they need to flip the levers, and then when one is flipped and his health goes down a bit more, they can put two and two together. I think what threw me off the most was that I had flipped a lever at the start, but he stayed at the same health threshold. So the non-responsiveness of the trigger in that regard threw me off a bit, but maybe other players wont have that problem!

I hope things are going well for you Seth and that this map doesn't make you want to tear your hair out, or want to kill us for always asking about the map ha ha! Take care!

 

[hopop201]

Woo, more dwm2 references!!! And take all the time you need Seth, we can wait.

 

[Zalashji]

I was a huge fan of Monster Master RPG. Is this still being worked on, or has the community completely died out? Is it possible for someone to pick it up again?
I'm always here to lend a hand if needed.

 

[hopop201]

I was a huge fan of Monster Master RPG. Is this still being worked on, or has the community completely died out? Is it possible for someone to pick it up again?
I'm always here to lend a hand if needed.

As you can clearly see the comunity has not died out and a new mal based off of MMRPG is in alpha. Feel free to try it out and provide anything that you can.

 

[sethmachine]

An update, finally ^^

Hi everyone,

Sorry it's been so long since an update! I've been fighting (re)captchas and automating stuff, but I'm beginning to get back into updating the map more.

I don't have a new version yet but instead I've got screenshots. I've revamped the whole dialog system, making it a lot easier and pleasing to use.

Take a look at some of the changes to the dialog interface

New dialog changes / features

-All options now have a working hotkey, appended at the end of the button like this "Dialog Option [ Hotkey ]."

-All vendor dialogs now have pages and a back button (done by pressing left arrow key) to return to a previous page.

-Dialogs now update in front of you and don't drop out. You want to withdraw a bunch of items quickly? No more re-clicking on the item vault! Withdraw an item, and bam you can choose another right after.

-Dialogs with the Farmer and Vault now feature actual pages / listings of your monsters / items. You won't be spammed with 10 items in a single dialog but it's now split up.

-Dialogs that list items/monsters assign them number key hotkeys for each page. So to access the first element on the page, you press the numpad key 0 (requires a numpad / numlock on of course!)

The new vault dialog

Items page of vault dialog

Withdrawing an item

I know this isn't a super big change but it's exciting for me, and also it will mean there will be virtual vendors soon (merchants you converse with like the vault or farmer). And I'm that much closer to making the monster breeder, which brings me closer to releasing a new version / a save/load system.

 

[hopop201]

Well it is good to see that you are making progress Seth, keep up the good work.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Keep in mind dialogs are single player only otherwise you'll have to ask everyone to wait while you press a button.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/submissions-414/system-dialog-button-254366/

 

[sethmachine]

Keep in mind dialogs are single player only otherwise you'll have to ask everyone to wait while you press a button.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/submissions-414/system-dialog-button-254366/

I am not sure that is relevant at all. Check out the most recent version (attached to the OP). dialogs work fine in multiplayer, and there haven't been any issues.

I think you are thinking of using dialogs for selecting options in a game? In that case yes everyone would need to wait until that player selected the options, or I used a timer to automatically choose after a certain amount of time. But that isn't the case for mmrpg--dialogs are used strictly for interfacing (items, npcs, etc.).

 

[Tal'Rarity]

In Warcraft 3, Blizzard didn't think to allow button clicks to keep working after one player clicks one. All buttons after the first player who pressed it will return null.

It is relevant, might check later. Dialogs sadly don't work fine In multiplayer and there will be issues later. The link I posted was explanation of this bug by Blizzard.

"Another worth noting bug, is fact that after using TriggerRegisterDialogButtonEvent, the GetClickedButton() native, will return null. Mentioned function requires specific button as argument and, blizz programmers assumed that retrival of actuall handle won't be needed in such case. Here, you have that opportunity, handle will be retrieved via trigger id."

It's just dialogs are simply bad and messy, unless you use some type of fix for it. Just notifying you of future bugs that will likely happen to some of your players.
I am sure it doesn't matter as long as its just like 3-4 buttons and your map isn't dialog focused.

 

[sethmachine]

Blizzard didn't think to allow button clicks to keep working after one player clicks one. All buttons after the first player who pressed it will return null.

Every player has their own set of dialogs. Everytime a button is clicked, the dialog is redrawn / remade. Again people have been playing the map for over a month. No bugs have ever been reported with dialogs. If you check the posts you can see there have been some diligent testers who have spent hours testing the map. Still no errors with dialogs.

The link is a link to Bannar's wrappers for dialog and button. I do not see a mention of a particular bug.

I use this native to do a dialog events: TriggerRegisterDialogEvent, and then retrieve the dialog by GetClickedDialog(). So far no bugs.

It appears that my implementation of dialog works around this bug, as there haven't been any issues at all in multiplayer to date. But I will keep my eyes open of course. I appreciate being informed of potential issues.

 

[Tal'Rarity]

Smart, you fixed the bug without even knowing it. Only pointing out Blizzard's flaws.

 

[hopop201]

Look at the two of you (@sethmachine and @Dat-C3) talking about the code for the game. We just want to know about the actual map, not the code behind. lol jk, some of us do. And yea Dat-C3, if there was any bug with the dialog it would have been reported right away. Also, I'm off to school on Monday, (I know so early!!!) so I may not have much time to test new updates as often.

Well, that's all folks

 

[Deathly_God]

Wow, the new update looks great! Seems like the project is growing in leaps and bounds! I know a lot of what ends up taking the most time, doesn't really show up to most users Nicely done with the triggering though, it's funny how simple some work arounds can be! I can't wait to see the whole system + breeding implemented later!

 

[hopop201]

Wow, the new update looks great! Seems like the project is growing in leaps and bounds! I know a lot of what ends up taking the most time, doesn't really show up to most users Nicely done with the triggering though, it's funny how simple some work arounds can be! I can't wait to see the whole system + breeding implemented later!

yea, there is probably gonna be tons of behind the scenes code for possibly the biggest part of the game, can't wait.

 

[MostlyGostly]

Long time fan of Monster Master. Played through the alpha a few times last night. Some of my thoughts:

-The items are immensely overpowered. I assume they are just placeholders, though.
-Patrol/Idle farming is far too easy.
-A starting monster option brings a lot of flavor to the game, and is, I think, part of what helped people become so attracted to the original MM.
-Monsters with poor Int levels (and also every Deadnite I've ever used) seem to gain skill ranks faster than their mana pool can catch up. The Deadnite, for instance, has a spell reducing attack and movespeed by ~.30% to .70%. I've yet to discover whether that is a typo of 30, 50, 70, etc as several Deadnites have all been unable to cast this spell, even at level 30.
-The Mummy and Bloodgill seemingly have no skills. I'm sure that's temporary, but maybe placeholder abilities would encourage people to use these monsters for the time being.
-Some skills just seem too powerful relative to others. Impale's aoe stun is very weak, for instance, when you consider how little can happen to/be accomplished by monsters in the aoe during that time. When combat is slow paced, short crowd control is simply not attractive (especially when the Harpy has a cheaper ability, dealing slightly more damage in a more usable aoe). The Slime's stat growths are poor (unless that is luck based), but until you can buy items, he still seems like the monster of choice, as his single target stun paired with his Q instant kills most monsters in the alpha.
-Future bosses might need more interesting abilities? The initial puzzle is fun, but the fight itself is very one dimensional.
-Master items besides meat should probably have cooldowns.

Other than that, the only bug I've noticed that hasn't been mentioned is that, some time after finishing The Cure for Madness (sic?), the water became green again. Also, there is some kind of structure at the rightmost point on the map of Agon. You can't enter it, so I'm sure it's just something unfinished, but when you do attempt to enter it, the camera centers on an empty part of the map. Just a bit confusing, is all.

All the same, great work picking up this project.

 

[Joga10]

Nvm...it will take forever to get done.

I don't think we will be able to play this map for this year...

 

[sethmachine]

@MostlyGostly

Thanks for your review / summary! It is very much appreciated on my end.

-The items are immensely overpowered. I assume they are just placeholders, though.

Exactly. They are just placeholders. I put them in just to give players a bit more to do / work for in the alpha. Items will be a lot different in the beta release.

-Patrol/Idle farming is far too easy.

Very true. I am not worried about this because there's no save/load system yet. There will be an anti-afk system, however!

-A starting monster option brings a lot of flavor to the game, and is, I think, part of what helped people become so attracted to the original MM.

I totally agree here. The problem is that the game is not designed the same way as Robbepop's MMRPG I. With his tier / type system, it made sense to be able to offer players a variety of starting monsters. That system simply doesn't apply to MMRPG II. I made the starter Slime for a few reasons:

(1) Slime is the traditional starter in DWM series

(2) The Slime family was never announced--it was meant to be a surprise.

(3) Slime is (probably) the only (surviving) species / member of the Slime family.

(4) The extinction of the Slimes is relevant to the main plot.

For these reasons I would find it hard to offer alternative starters.

Monsters with poor Int levels (and also every Deadnite I've ever used) seem to gain skill ranks faster than their mana pool can catch up.

Yes this is a problem. I just haven't put anytime into developing a stat growth balance. It's pretty tricky. It will definitely be more balanced / fixed once it becomes more relevant (e.g. PvP, etc.).

The Mummy and Bloodgill seemingly have no skills.

Hmm, I know they have skills. Bloodgill in fact learns Heal (auto cast). If they aren't learning any, are you sure it's not their intelligence level? But it could definitely be bugged as well.

Some skills just seem too powerful relative to others.

Same with the stat growth balance, this will be balanced out in time. It's just not on the top of the list for things to develop.

Future bosses might need more interesting abilities

Yes of course. There will definitely be changes to make that boss fight and future ones more interactive and interesting. Just another thing on the development stack.

Master items besides meat should probably have cool downs.

At some point perhaps. What I know I will do is to add a mana cost to using them. That will add an artificial cool down, and also encourage players to grow their character towards mana pool / regen (yes there will be perks for your heroes).

the water became green again

Yup probably just a bug. Thanks for alerting me.

there is some kind of structure at the rightmost point on the map of Agon...when you do attempt to enter it, the camera centers on an empty part of the map.

It's Mirage Lake, for a future quest. Not yet implemented. The reason why it does that is because it's a "null" area--the Mirage Lake area doesn't exist, so by default WC3 just tells you to go to the center of the map.

I don't think we will be able to play this map for this year.

Development has slowed down to a snail's pace unfortunately. As I'm the only one working on the map and there is a lot to get done, it takes a long time to push forward.

But I am still working at it!

 

[hopop201]

Woo, Mirage Lake!!! Props to anyone who has played DWM2 and knows what it is.

 

[Deathly_God]

Development has slowed down to a snail's pace unfortunately. As I'm the only one working on the map and there is a lot to get done, it takes a long time to push forward.

But I am still working at it!

Even though I'm not commenting much anymore, still checking in regularly Hope things go easier once some of the core stuff is finished! You can always fall back a little on the community if there are some people decent with code or models or w/e, to lighten the load!

Anyways, Cheers!

 

[alexis_031098]

Just a quick review here. I haven't played through much of the Alpha released but I'm very excited about this map given that I've spent a lot of time playing (solo-ing) the original MMRPG map. I have actually been waiting for a release since the announcement of the map and am very excited to have actually tried the Alpha.

Pros:
+ I like the addition of interaction for the map. It made the map feel much more like an RPG. I think it would be awesome if you could actually add interaction to all NPC's and make them say something to add more flavor to the game.
+ I am very intrigued with the addition of quests for the map. I always felt like the lack of a concrete goal in the original map was a big drawback. Quests for MMRPG 2 just gets me very excited for the full version.
+The MONSTER AMBUSH thing was great. I was initially confused by the lack of monsters in the map but was caught off-guard when a monster suddenly attacked. I think this random feature for the map is a really good addition and reduces repetitiveness (another tedious thing about the original MMRPG).

Cons:
-First strange thing I noticed which was different from the original MMRPG was the lack of nets to capture monsters. I did notice when monsters wanted to join the party (similar to Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, I believe) which surprised me. I have very mixed emotions about this and I am no sure if this is the final way of catching monsters.
-One thing that really bothered me was the slow experience gain at the start of the game. I don't know if this is final but I found the amount of experience you get for the first few levels is pretty low. I think that the first few levels at the start of the game is really gratifying and somehow pushes casual players to keep playing.
-The slime felt really off. I've played some DQM/DWM so the slime was a familiar face. I am not that familiar with the game though so I assumed that MMRPG 2 is actually leaning towards copying DWM a little more than the original. This is a very opinionated review but I really want a more original game more than a Warcraft version of DWM.

Most of the reviews here are more of comparisons with the original MMRPG (which I really loved) and some first impressions. Overall, I am liking this sequel. Just to give you an idea of how much I haven't explored of the Alpha, I stopped when I finally leveled my Slime to 6. Seeing your goals for this map, I am REALLY looking forward to playing the official release. Keep up the good work and good luck with the rest of the map!

 

[sethmachine]

Hello everyone!

I am really sorry for the long delay in responding to the project thread. Things have just been really busy.

Thank you all for your continued interest and support of this project. It is something I put a lot into as well.

I need to take a hiatus from development, which basically means until I get my shit straight the project will be taking a long pause.

However, I've actually prepared for this in case this day would come. All the source code and map (unprotected) will be made available to anyone who wishes to develop the map while I am on hiatus. The source is very high level vJASS with lots of comments, so it would not be hard to start developing the map. If anyone is interested in taking over while I am away, send me a private message and we can discuss the details. One thing to keep in mind is that I am not handing this project away but opening it up to other potential collaborators, i.e. I plan on returning to finishing MMRPG II.

 

[NiPerAn]

Mmrpg 2

Ok. This was supposed to be an e-mail, but google tells me that the e-mail does not exist, so I'll just post it here.

Hello sethmachine, first of all I want to say thank you for making the MM series go on. I've known the map for a while, but it didn't really update since... 2011 I think? And hopefully MMRPG 2 will be the new beginning for the map.

These are my personal opinions on the beta map from what I've seen so far.

1. Custom Monster Models.
I don't think that the model of the first monster you get looks good. Not that one in particular, but I feel like Warcraft 3 has plenty of models on its own which look quite good and just don't stick out of the theme.
P.S. After walking around the map for a while with a female, I finally realized that that was a custom model too, but that one is a good one.
P.S.S. Actually decided to finish the quest, I can teleport now. First area, hm not too bad for a beta.
No creeps, OMG WHAT IS THAT SOUND, oh a creep just spawned. Didn't really like that custom model either, sry

2. Gender Selection.
This one is not so important, and I'm sorry for being picky, but I feel like it would've been nicer if you could pick the gender just by being forced into a dialogue window (or whatever those are called) with two options in it.

3. The Town.
Yes, my OCD senses are not tingling, but it feels a bit too square. I think the houses and the trees and such should be thrown around a little.

4. The Library.
It just looks great, good job on that one.

5. First Area.
Definitely looks different from MM, what you have now is just a big area with randomly spawning creatures, I don't know if it's good or bad, it's just something that no one would expect coming from MM to MM 2, and is going to feel odd.
P.S. I know that you're trying to base MM 2 on a gameboy game, which I never played, but presume the random monster spawning came from.

I probably missed something, but so far this is what I've got.

I would like to try to help make the map, I'm not too good with JASS but I would love to give it a try if possible.

Also questions.
1. Do you by any chance have the fusion list for MMRPG? Because the ones that were out there earlier, are now deleted.
2. (This one is only a question if you will accept my help with the map and would send me an unprotected copy of it) Does everything has to be in vJASS or I can just use the World Editor's standard scripts?

Hope to hear from you soon, Seth.

 

[sethmachine]

Hello NiPerAn,

The answers to most of your questions can be found by looking through the thread. For the most part the map is just an Alpha, which means most of the terrain and features are definitely subject to a lot of improvement and change. I very much appreciate your feedback, and all of it will be taken into account as the map continues to develop.

No, I do not have a fusion list. I do not encourage consulting or using one because a part of the game is to experiment with combinations. Otherwise it's just like following a recipe someone wrote--kind of boring (for me).

In regards to developing the map, it requires an extensive knowledge of vJASS and programming principles. The source script is all written in vJASS and all of the custom objects are generated by Lua scripts. There is no GUI, and even in the uncompressed versions, the vJASS source is not possible to see or edit because it is imported and compiled into JASS each time the script is updated. Even once you know how to write vJASS, it also requires some knowledge of Python (which does very high level compiling).

I would also not feel comfortable just handing out copies of the project to anyone who asks. I mean no offense at all, but in addition to the knowledge required, an additional developer would need to have a good reputation and presence on the forums (i.e. someone who I know I can trust).

I do have a funny story to share though: Robbepop (the maker of MMRPG) handed the map over to me even though I had almost no posts on the forums and was a nobody (I still am a nobody haha!). Why? Well one thing that helped me show I was serious (and had the skills) was when I cracked the save/load system of MMRPG even though I didn't know JASS or had ever made a map in my life before (and no, I did not simply call the functions from within another WC3 map). But I also have a degree in Computer Science, which certainly made it possible.

 

[NiPerAn]

Thank you for the answer, sethmachine.

I do understand that I have no rep. It's ok. I will be watching the project and will be trying to help it in any way.
I will look in the thread for my answers.

Hope to see you back with us, when you will be done with

until I get my shit straight

 

[Deathly_God]

Also questions.
1. Do you by any chance have the fusion list for MMRPG? Because the ones that were out there earlier, are now deleted.

If you need the fusion list (for tiers 2, 3, 4, and 5) I can help provide all tier 4 and 5, and almost all of 2 and 3. Most of it was memory so I'd have to write it out, but that's always an option if you want.

 

[hopop201]

If you need the fusion list (for tiers 2, 3, 4, and 5) I can help provide all tier 4 and 5, and almost all of 2 and 3. Most of it was memory so I'd have to write it out, but that's always an option if you want.

The tier 2 and 3 fusions aren't that important, and if you play enough you can make your own list of all the fusions you have found. Almost all of the tier 4 and 5 fusions that i have done i or the people i have played with have found the scrolls for the fusions at least once in all of their and my time playing. But there are lists out there if you really want them.