Moderators need to answer to someone

[Maedh]

Please Mods. DO NOT MOVE THIS TO THE ADMIN CONTACT SECTION.

I already have a post in their, and only ONE mod has decided to actually help me, and adress my concerns, that was Mechman. Id like to thank him for that.

Recently I had several of my posts deleated, and several other people have had their posts deleated. As far as I know they were all on topic posts (except for one, which was me tryint to ask why my post was deleated).

Apparently the reason the post was deleated, was because the mod did not feel people would want to read what I wrote?

What right do mods have to censor what people can and cant read?

When I asked these questions, my post was moved into the private Admin contact.

WHY THE PRIVACY?

If the mods feel they are doing the right thing, why do you move our concers behind closed doors?

WE NEED A NEW MOD. ONE THAT MODERATES THE MODERATORS.

One that actually holds the moderators accountable, and makes them respond back.

 

[HINDYhat]

Firstly, -.-'

Secondly,

What right do mods have to censor what people can and cant read?

This is a dictatorship.

WHY THE PRIVACY?

Not to cause shitstorms.

Thirdly,

WE NEED A NEW MOD. ONE THAT MODERATES THE MODERATORS.

We already have them. They're called 'directors'. You can contact them via PM or admin contact.

Finally,
this thread fails. Watch it get closed.

 

[TDR]

Moderators don't have to justify their actions to users. They only answer to their superiors, the admins. They do whatever they think it's right and don't need your opinion on it. You either live with this or go away. There's no such thing as democracy on a forum and it should never be. It's a sort of police state, and I think it's the right way.

 

[~Void~]

Usually it's the admins that do things like that

If it really matters that much to you, you should take it up with Ralle.

 

[Rui]

This thread was moved to the Admin Contact because that's the right place to post it. Our administration is responsible for handling moderator issues. The direction of the site is responsible for the moderators of the Community (The Hive Workshop, Gamer's Hub), Development (Warcraft III Modding) and Art (Artist's Discussion).

I guess it's slightly ironic and hilarious to say this anyway, since your post is all about me.

Recently I had several of my posts deleated, and several other people have had their posts deleated. As far as I know they were all on topic posts (except for one, which was me tryint to ask why my post was deleated).

They were.
Like you said in the private message you sent me, there are other people going around asking when the project's going to be released. There is a common answer for this question: "It's done when it's done."
And think a bit: if other people asked, why are you asking again?

Apparently the reason the post was deleated, was because the mod did not feel people would want to read what I wrote?

What right do mods have to censor what people can and cant read?

Most of the times (and you don't have to search a lot) the threads in the Map Development forum are filled with encouragement messages and "when is it released?" questions.
Now, you don't need any special judgment to know that you want to skip entire pages which contain posts of this nature. It's simply annoying to be skipping pages just to find that three quarters (or more) of the next page are filled with more of these replies.
If it was a hosted project, we would accept these messages - they are encouraging and let's admit: they boost your ego. But having the space limited to a single thread changes things a lot.
And that's all regarding on-topic but spammy messages. It gets worse when they begin asking for MSN addresses and switching the map.

That's what I think as a reader, though. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I know that mine is shared by most of the users. Or by most of those who have been around and have seen all kinds of spam.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

By the logic that I have virtually no idea what you're talking about simply by reading this topic, I'd argue that this discussion belongs elsewhere.

Regardless, Maedh, the "moderation" as a whole has its issues, but you just need to pick the right people to talk to. I don't believe in admin contact, I believe in private messages with proper subject lines. Now that's something that gets a response. Just relax, I'm sure whatever happened, it was done for a reason. This is the internet, no sense in getting sore over it. Just prove that you're better than that elsewhere in the forums.

 

[kewlthis]

I agree 100% to first post. Why to delete posts when they dont harm anyone? Its ok if you delete the useless posts, but there have been threeads where entire pages are removed because mod is too lazy to delete singe posts?!. And again my thread was closed because there were like 4 posts off topic (even if its going off topic, it should be up to the threads maker to close the thread, and not to mention I asked several times to open it and nothing happened).

yes. Im refering to RUI too, the source of evil!

 

[Steel_Stallion]

It's annoying to have your thread closed because other people spam it. Its a bit stupid to not look at your thread much. Then return to find it was closed because other people spammed it. Very annoying, I can see this being abused

 

[Rui]

It's annoying to have your thread closed because other people spam it. Its a bit stupid to not look at your thread much. Then return to find it was closed because other people spammed it. Very annoying, I can see this being abused

If you are referring to your thread, which PurplePoot re-opened, someone posted something stupid and you replied with the same coin face, that's why I closed it.

 

[Steel_Stallion]

Well, I was thinking about my thread when posting that. But I was also speaking in general, I mean, can't this be abused?

 

[Angry_Bovine]

No, because spammy users would be removed after a while. Or, if it doesn't exist, a system where enough -rep or enough infractions would cause ban.

 

[Rui]

Well, I was thinking about my thread when posting that. But I was also speaking in general, I mean, can't this be abused?

Technically, you're asking me if I can't be abused. I'm not a robot ;P
If people spam your thread, do not reply. Simply report it and I'll clean it for you. That's what the Report Post button is for.

 

[Andriejj]

It's annoying to have your thread closed because other people spam it. Its a bit stupid to not look at your thread much. Then return to find it was closed because other people spammed it. Very annoying, I can see this being abused

Ekhm, who did just spam a Latest Updates and News thread with a personal argument?

 

[MySpaceBarBroke]

Or, if it doesn't exist, a system where enough -rep or enough infractions would cause ban.

That's the purpose of infractions. 10 of them gets you banned.

@Maedh

I moved this thread to Admin Contact and you posted it right up again? Quite frankly, my feelings are a bit hurt here.

1. Privacy concerns:
Your complaints were, for the most part, centered around a specific user. We take complaints about specific mods' behaviors to Admin Contact or the Mod Lobby. The public's attention to these kinds of problems are not necessary. Why do you need this thread to be public? So the rest of the world can hear you complain? So you can let everyone on the site know how crappy the moderators are? Please.
2. A mod that moderates moderators? Didn't they use to call those Administrators? Or Directors? I wonder if that's why I moved this thread to the Admin Contact forum. Hmm...
3. Mods have perfect right to censor what you say. That's why we HAVE the "delete post" option. Because people say stupid things and that often results in more stupid things being said.

 

[~Void~]

Why is it that so many map developers are such fucking douchebags? -.-'

It seems that most problems concerning closing or deletion of threads, negrep etc. come from the map makers?

 

[En_Fuego]

Moderators are chosen because they are good at making decisions when it comes down to "what's right and what's wrong?". If they make a decision, generally they're right.

Also, I wouldn't call this a dictatorship, it's more of a Republic than anything. Just because we don't necessarily elect the "officials" doesn't mean that we don't agree with who is chosen.

Honestly, if you have a problem with the moderators, you should just leave. It won't get you anywhere to argue with them.

 

[Hakeem]

This is resolved.

Admins and/or directors are the position you seek to create, and they exist here already.

 

[Ralle]

Moderators are chosen because they are good at making decisions when it comes down to "what's right and what's wrong?". If they make a decision, generally they're right.

Also, I wouldn't call this a dictatorship, it's more of a Republic than anything. Just because we don't necessarily elect the "officials" doesn't mean that we don't agree with who is chosen.

Honestly, if you have a problem with the moderators, you should just leave. It won't get you anywhere to argue with them.

I partially disagree. If you can prove to me that you are right and he is wrong, you will get somewhere..

 

[Mecheon]

WE NEED A NEW MOD. ONE THAT MODERATES THE MODERATORS.

Hi. I've been Rule Enforcer for a few weeks now. And I've been coming down on other moderators doing stuff against the rules for nearly as long

You guys already have a mod who moderates the moderators and makes sure that they do stuff properly or else face my wrath. It ain't my only job on the website, but hell, its one that I do anyway

 

[Rising_Dusk]

The fact that that position is even necessary speaks magnitude to the quality of the staff as a whole. Eliminate the problem moderators and eliminate the position you have, I say. Then you can be given some position where you're something actually beneficial to WC3 modding and you're not tasked with wasting effort and time in dealing with insubordinates. Wouldn't that be a novel idea?

 

[Mecheon]

The fact that that position is even necessary speaks magnitude to the quality of the staff as a whole

But it isn't necessary. That's why I'm the Rule Enforcer, not the Making Sure Mods Don't Do Their Jobs Wrong Guy

They do their job fine. Its when they don't do their job fine that we have a bit of a kerfuffle

 

[Rising_Dusk]

But it isn't necessary.

Then why does it exist?

They do their job fine. Its when they don't do their job fine that we have a bit of a kerfuffle

Isn't that what makes it necessary, though?

 

[Mecheon]

Then why does it exist?

It exists when it needs to and at no other time. So basically whenever I yell at people to get them to be more in line

Isn't that what makes it necessary, though?

Not really, because it doesn't exist any more, and won't unless someone slips up again

 

[~Void~]

I think what mecheon is saying is that it's not necessary to have one person whose only job is to stop moderators from doing a shitty job, but it is needed sometimes, so it's incorporated into mecheon's list of jobs as Rule Enforcer.

 

[En_Fuego]

I partially disagree. If you can prove to me that you are right and he is wrong, you will get somewhere..

True, but that's also a flawed statement, because moderators generally know right from wrong. Even if they make a mistake (which I'm sure they do) they are usally small mistakes. That's the nature of being a moderator. Unless of course you pick shitty moderators.

 

[PurplePoot]

It's easier to misjudge a situation than you'd think.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

It exists when it needs to and at no other time. So basically whenever I yell at people to get them to be more in line

Which brings me back to the question of why you have that title in the first place as opposed to something more productive. Your job should be blatantly obvious at a glance from the staff title, and right now it screams "I enforce rules." Am I wrong? No, you even said it yourself, but as long as you've got that title it definitely exists. No dice on the "it exists when it needs to" argument unless your title only exists "when it needs to."

I suppose it's a technicality, but I don't see why you couldn't have a more representative title if you only do what it says "when it needs to be done."

 

[PurplePoot]

Rules extend farther than mods.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

And it should be all mods' and admins' jobs to enforce them.

 

[~Void~]

And it should be all mods' and admins' jobs to enforce them.

If a normal user forgets their responsibility and breaks a rule, it's the moderators' job to make sure they don't do it again. If a moderator forgets their responsibility and breaks a rule, it's the admins' job to make sure that they don't do it again. If an admin forgets their responsibility and breaks a rule, it's Ralle's job to make sure they don't do it again. If Ralle breaks a rule, well then we all just have to live with it

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I think it's more cyclic than that, really. If an admin forgets their responsibility and breaks a rule, it's the users' jobs to bring it up and make them remember or resign, whichever the admin would prefer doing. Where do you think all of these topics about admin effectiveness and stuff stem from? A public discontent with the staffing, of course.

Regardless of all of these wonderful epiphanies, my previous post still stands. If Mecheon stands as an interface between admin and users, then he should be the Community Director. If he stands as an interface between admins and mods, then the other admins need a serious asskicking. If his staff position exists solely as a global moderator and general badass, then he should be the Staff Director. It's the distinction therein that I am strongly inclined to support here above all else.

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

Nonono Dusk, you got it all wrong! If you do not like a person from the staff of the site, you must "gtfo", the mods can only be wrong if the admins say so and the admins can never be wrong. Pointing out flaws is not an option.

 

[HappyTauren]

Cause the concept of criticizing the dictatorship is flawed by itself.

 

[Mecheon]

And it should be all mods' and admins' jobs to enforce them.

It is. Its just that sometimes we yell at each other. We're only human, you see

When that happens, we generally yell at each other more until the problem is solved

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Or, you know, you guys yell at each other, nothing gets fixed, and half the active staff rage-quits. It's not like that has happened recently or anything. Really, if my points made here were unfounded, I wouldn't be making them.

 

[Deathcom3s]

I think the problem that users have when they post these topics about moderator rights, is that they fail to realise that forums in general are meant to be a dictatorship. You can't run it any other way, it just doesn't work. I've seen plenty of forums try to do it differently, and things got really out of hand, really fast.

So what can we take away from this?
That you need to learn how a forum works before you try to make these lame, unsupported arguements over moderator rights.

~Death

 

[Captain Griffen]

It is. Its just that sometimes we yell at each other. We're only human, you see

When that happens, we generally yell at each other more until the problem is solved

I tend to find shouting at each other works less effectively than discussing and, if at a stalemate with a decision needing to be made, an admin vote.

 

[Gilles]

Really, if my points made here were unfounded, I wouldn't be making them.

Who makes points that they think aren't founded?

 

[PurplePoot]

I tend to find shouting at each other works less effectively than discussing and, if at a stalemate with a decision needing to be made, an admin vote.

Of course it's less effective, but you're making the horrible assumption that people are rational.

 

[Vegavak]

Of course it's less effective, but you're making the horrible assumption that people are rational.

Everyone is rational. It's the extent of rationalization combined with their grasp of reality and truths that people make horrible assumptions about.

And if moderators are not doing their jobs properly, then why are they still moderators? Out of desperation?

 

[brad.dude03]

You people are silly.

In fact this whole thread is silly. If nothing useful is accomplished here in the next little while, I might close it so that it doesn't become the spamhole of every user's gripes with the staff.

 

[Hakeem]

Are you blind? Because of this thread, we now have admins and directors.

 

[Falconeye]

Well on this forum Maedh, Mods and Admins are the ones who actually have all of the power, so whether or not you dislike something a mod has done, there really isn't anything you can do except complain. Oh and also, if the Moderators did something, they probably had a reason.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Who makes points that they think aren't founded?

You're suggesting subjectivity, which doesn't have any bearing on what points I've made. Objectively, then, I find your claim moot.

 

[D.I.Y Death]

Why is it that so many map developers are such fucking douchebags? -.-'

It seems that most problems concerning closing or deletion of threads, negrep etc. come from the map makers?

Long story short its because they have a sense of accomplishment and superiority feed by their position as a moderator and from people appealing to their egos. Most boards have this problem. Unfortunately the Hive doesn't get rid of those mods like most other sites do.

 

[brad.dude03]

You're a fucking tard.

He's talking about MAP MAKERS. NOT MODERATORS.

You're such a crybaby it's not even funny. You got slapped on the wrist, that was like a week ago! Get over it, you know, maybe grow up a bit, start abiding by the rules, etc, and then stop whining about the staff just because you can't take it.

 

[communist_orc]

Tru dat! some of teh users need to grow up! But the Mods also need to get their shit together! Work as a team, and not against each other... but im getting of topic (sry)

Anywayz, this thread is going Nowhere!

 

[ragingspeedhorn]

The Hive has been divided ever since the Wc3sear.ch merge really. Ralle's idea of the site changed and he got distanced from a lot of the moderators, that has then been passed down through the generations you could say, even though the staff has been more or less completely replaced since then.

There really is no quick fix to these problems, and the only fix there could ever be would have to come from Ralle, accepting that other people see things differently than him. Ralle is pretty open towards a lot of things, or so it seems, but for some reason he has always been hostile towards parts of his own staff, atleast thats what I and others experienced in our time of reign.

 

[communist_orc]

Ralles always been a good chieftain in my opinion.
He usualy open to others thoughts & if he finds himself attacked he punishes people.
The thing is people really get pissed off, for little or no reason.*please excuse the language*
And with all the flaiming that goes on here, that creates a lot of negative vibes...

 

[Hakeem]

ya lol staf sux it hurt my pheelingz

And I'd do it again too!

EDIT:
InB4lock, apparently.
Even though the post was just under 2 weeks since the last post, this is the kind of thread that gives the necroposting rule power.

Heck, I didn't want to see this thread when it was new.