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Map Resource Reviews and Approval

Discussion in 'Site Discussion' started by darkwulfv, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. MasterHaosis

    MasterHaosis

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    I have many (all) maps to test I don't have time for rating !!! But when users send me PM and ask me to rate I do it always !
     
  2. Pyritie

    Pyritie

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    Rating takes like one click. That's nothing compared to having to play the actual map.

    I've been starting to do the approval/ignored vote thingy more often.
     
  3. Callahan

    Callahan

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    No problem guys, Master Haosis is a nice guy very friendly and all, it's ok with him.
    I understand he do the job you don't and if it were you i guess you'll approve maps too.
    Just if i had to submit a map of mine i would like a proper review.I already know that my map don't countains virus,don't crash the game and that i didn't stole it.

    And i refers to mod's approval to dl a map.If you approve lame map that is playable but that has nothing special i won't trust approval anymore.
     
  4. MasterHaosis

    MasterHaosis

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    Yeah man I understand this stupid sounds sometimes but I must write this 3 impoertsnt things. When map is ,,stupid'' I just write comments. Man as prove I tested map I always explain map, you know. I explain what I like the most, and I always put how I respect author's hard work. Becasue when you made map of course you put hard work. And what will be if I wrote: Your map is shit, it's stupid, but you can't better or you already put alot of work. I respect authoers work there. I reject many maps and they resend me PM and we discuss. I respect everyone. But this is not excuse I want better proper review. Anyway you will play that map and you will see and write comment if you like. That's why exist moderators comment (you belive this or not, but we post about map approval), and user's comment. SO you play map and post your proper comment. There is not need to watch moderator's review. he exist only to confirm map approval or rejectal ! I also post in users comment things like you. When I have time of course. You must know all i have alot of works there. And I do only what rules and amdinistration told me. So they agree with my decition as you saw. But I told map is yours /seems no edited.... This means noone can be sure in this. he can like several users (not matter names) to steal map, and someone show me ral map authors and I will change comment and reject map. That's why ,,seems'' I must belive all users. So when you post map I mustnot doubt at you, I will accept like your until someone show me or I find different ! That's calling abusinf trust and stealing. So if anyone see such things feel free and send me PM (I won't reveal you it is not matter how I know and who told me it's matter I know) and I will do some proper action. That's point ofmy job. Shortly: I must follow and support rules and they are for everyone !!!
     
  5. HINDYhat

    HINDYhat

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    In my honest opinion, maps should be judged on quality... Maps are like classmates, and approval is like graduation. If the student is a real dumbass who doesn't understand anything in any of his classes, then he will not graduate. Handicaps shouldn't be given to idiots in classes (and they aren't, as far as I know), aswell as they shouldn't be given to crappy maps in the map database. If a map sucks, it sucks, regardless of the creator's skill.

    If we have a 'Recommended' section, and a 'Regular maps' section, I doubt anyone would browse through the 'Regular maps' section to find an interesting custom game. Most would just look through the Recommended or Director's Choice maps... so why keep all of the useless bad-quality maps? I honestly think that there should be a quality rule, both in presentation and gameplay.
     
  6. Gilles

    Gilles

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    You would keep the low quality maps so that they at least are on the site and may get some notice. I would rather do away with low quality too, but if we really want everyone to get a chance, we should makes sections. IMO.
     
  7. Taur

    Taur

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    I think the best idea in this whole thread by far was bringing back the director's choice. It was a great way to cut out the BS and it really cuts down on the work that mods need. What could happen for example is that if a mod approves a map, he has an option to nominate it for director's choice. If so, then other mods will see it and review it (people should also feel more inclined to review maps if they know it's a high quality map). If they feel so fit they'll put in DC. Perhaps only admins and highly placed mods will be able to move something to DC.
     
  8. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Ralle, what do you have in mind for the new Map section? Are you going to surprise us, or can we know now?
     
  9. Deathcom3s

    Deathcom3s

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    People need to stop giving so much crap to map resource mods, map approval is probably the most tedious, time consuming job on the hive. They need to be given more respect and thanks. If a mod rejects your map don't start flaming them like an immature noob, instead be grateful they took the time to review your map and use their suggestions to improve it. So start giving the mods more credit, they do the job that you don't want to do.

    Just thought I'd throw that out there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  10. donut3.5

    donut3.5

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    Not really what this thread's topic is, but ok..
    We're talking about mods being too lenient, not too strict with approval.
    --donut3.5--
     
  11. Gilles

    Gilles

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    It's not the mods, it's the rules. If you have issues, take it up with Ralle and Woverabid about the rules.
     
  12. Wolverabid

    Wolverabid

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    Rant noted; input appreciated.

    Let's touch upon some the highlights and try to sum things up as they stand right now.
    Quite true. This discussion has been hashed, rehashed, boiled, reboiled and over-boiled any number of times, both by our community at large, as well as the staff. Everyone has differing opinions as to what should or shouldn't be accepted. As Gilles previously referenced:

    The Hive Workshop > FAQ > THW Rules > Resource Section Rules > Map Rules
    Once again every individual's opinion is different as to precisely where the "low-quality" cut off line is to be drawn. Ralle's opinion is that most maps should be approved, the administration and staff are (for the most part) in agreement. The cut off line is then drawn by Map Resource Moderators on a case-by case basis.

    Precisely. Our rules are (in part) derived from those of the former wc3sear. The Hive Workshop has striven to achieve a middle balance between the extreme ends of the spectrum. Both Darky's wc3s and EpicWars are examples of "resource dumps." Anything goes. wc3c on the other hand, is VERY strict: Your map's not perfect (as judged by our standards)? Take it down the road. So, here at THW we're trying to keep all options open. To misquote Abraham Lincoln:

    "You can please some of the people all of the time, and please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please All of the people ALL of the time."

    Thus, the high-wire, tiptoe balancing act continues on a daily basis.

    He's a new map mod and, in my opinion, has been trying his best to approve or reject submissions based on the existing guidelines.

    That's part of the solution. When our intrepid webmaster incorporates the map resource section into the forum proper, all of the filter, search and moderation features used in THW's icon and model sections will then be applied to maps as well.

    Further revision to the map section (and the map approval process) will continue to take place over time based on value-added experience and community input.
     
  13. darkwulfv

    darkwulfv

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    I think it's great that you're reaching into the lower ends of the spectrum. However, some things are just "... Wow."

    He's told me he's new and all the work he's done. It's great what he's doing, and I don't blame him for my problem; I just don't like the current reviewal standards. It's ok to go low for the greater part of the community, but going too low just puts you back to Epicwar and Wc3s.


    I look forward to the new map section and (I'll say it again), I'd be more than happy to help re-review maps that may be in question, and review new and in-queue maps.
     
  14. Deathcom3s

    Deathcom3s

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    The amount of man-power currently needed to review the maps is large, now if they began re-filtering every map that was approved they would have to double the current map resource mod force to continue at the pace they're going at now. If they didn't promote more mods and had the current mods re-filter each map would slow things further, meaning fewer maps will be approved.
    I don't think that's a solution.

    You can re-filter maps if they'll let you but you'll soon find yourself buried by a mound of them.
     
  15. Gilles

    Gilles

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    Thanks for the update Wolverabid, but are you not going to release any information on how exactly the new section will work?

    Here are the big things I would like to see.

    1) A recommended section for Moderators to place good maps.

    2) A Directors Choice section where the Moderators can send a map up to the Admins/other Moderators to vote on. If enough vote yes, it goes into an elite section where only the best of the best maps go.

    3) A good approval system. Maybe have a little default approval message where the Moderators only have to fill in the blanks. I myself post in sentences like on a forum page, but I like your method (Wolverabid) of having them all look the same. The time, the rating, the checklist of No bugs, Does not crash, is playable. Then after the default approval message, the Moderator can add his own comments. This seems more professional and creates less confusion when a map is not approved.
     
  16. darkwulfv

    darkwulfv

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    I could make a "grading" system, if anyone wants to. It has a general category, and then it breaks down according to genre. I've found in the past, though used only a little @ Gamerisle, this is very effective at ensuring that a map is well covered in its reviewal, and also helps to specify what a reviewer should look for in a type of map.

    If anyone likes this idea, I might need some help writing up ones for genres I don't/rarely play.
     
  17. Deathcom3s

    Deathcom3s

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    The problem with breaking the maps into sections is that most players will only look through the "Directors Choice" and "Recommended section. Thus leaving the "Mediocre" maps un-played, for the most part, I'm sure there will be someone who will look through the "Mediocre" maps. You shouldn't really group them like that, people took the time to create those maps and they shouldn't be left to gather dust.
     
  18. donut3.5

    donut3.5

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    That's completely fair. The "mediocre" maps will get played less anyways if they are less than quality built.
    The maps that have more time, effort, and skill built into them should of course deserve to be played more.
    --donut3.5--
     
  19. HINDYhat

    HINDYhat

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    That's exactly what my point was:
     
  20. DesKaladA

    DesKaladA

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    Hindyhat i do feel your views the maps section in genrel is becoming a festering spamhole that really needs some heavy duty anti-noobotics