How much of the Quran Have You Read?

[Map Designer]

Hello,

I am wondering how much of it have you read? if yes, which chapters exactly?



if there is similar thread about bible pm me about him.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Why is "none" not an option?

I mean, I kinda want to, and feel like I should someday read it at least in part, but seriously.

 

[Nowow]

Why do I feel like I'm getting called out on my lackluster Quran game?

 

[deepstrasz]

One thing I am not particularly sure about is if An-Nur (Al-Nur in the translated version I have for some reason) is supposed to be dark humour or dark reality.

Why is "none" not an option?

Not reading Allah's words is not an option. Allah gives only the best options.

 

[Crazed_seal2]

I maybe read the first three pages. Not my cup of tea.

 

[Map Designer]

Why is "none" not an option?

I mean, I kinda want to, and feel like I should someday read it at least in part, but seriously.

I though I put it as an option sry

though Quran is quite short. It should be an easy task for you.

One thing I am not particularly sure about is if An-Nur (Al-Nur in the translated version I have for some reason) is supposed to be dark humour or dark reality.

what do you mean? which Part of That Sura are you referring to?
If you are referring to the beginning, and the punishment to certain (two) sins, I don't know what makes you think of it as humor?

 

[deepstrasz]

what do you mean? which Part of That Sura are you referring to?

Well, it's mostly about punishment there, flogging, covering of women, stuff.
I found it sarcastic for it to be called light.

If you are referring to the beginning, and the punishment to certain (two) sins, I don't know what makes you think of it as humor?

I meant sarcasm or something. Humour in the real sense no because the book treats everything therein seriously, very, utmost.

 

[Map Designer]

Well, it's mostly about punishment there, flogging, covering of women, stuff.
I found it sarcastic for it to be called light.

is light the correct translation? not exactly sure. IIRC in Arabic there is a difference between sun light and other kinds of light (maybe because sun light gives us more energy heat etc)

but anyway, it is mentioned in the middle of the chapter (verse 35), not the beginning.

many chapters are named after famous verse, which could be in the beginning, the middle, or the end of the chapter.

Here is the part which the sura was named after:

Spoiler: Text

Sahih International Translation (versus 34-40)

34:And We have certainly sent down to you distinct verses and examples from those who passed on before you and an admonition for those who fear Allah.

35:Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whom He wills. And Allah presents examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things.

36:[Such niches are] in mosques which Allah has ordered to be raised and that His name be mentioned therein; exalting Him within them in the morning and the evenings


37:[Are] men whom neither commerce nor sale distracts from the remembrance of Allah and performance of prayer and giving of zakah. They fear a Day in which the hearts and eyes will [fearfully] turn about -

38:That Allah may reward them [according to] the best of what they did and increase them from His bounty. And Allah gives provision to whom He wills without account.

39:But those who disbelieved - their deeds are like a mirage in a lowland which a thirsty one thinks is water until, when he comes to it, he finds it is nothing but finds Allah before Him, and He will pay him in full his due; and Allah is swift in account.

40: Or [they are] like darknesses within an unfathomable sea which is covered by waves, upon which are waves, over which are clouds - darknesses, some of them upon others. When one puts out his hand [therein], he can hardly see it. And he to whom Allah has not granted light - for him there is no light.


More accurate translation of verse 38 might be the one by Mufti Taqi Usmani

The fate (of such people) is that Allah will reward them for the best deeds they did, and will give them more out of His grace. Allah gives whom He wills without counting.

 

[deepstrasz]

many chapters are named after famous verse, which could be in the beginning, the middle, or the end of the chapter.

Didn't know they were given random names since usually chapters are named accordingly to what lies in them, the core aspect. Of course Allah's light would be most important generally but the chapter was not about that particularly.

 

[Map Designer]

Didn't know they were given random names since usually chapters are named accordingly to what lies in them, the core aspect. Of course Allah's light would be most important generally but the chapter was not about that particularly.

Chapter of Mariam include Mariam Story, which is the second story mentioned in the chapter, not the first. but if you compare it with the other stories, it was the longest (in that chapter), and others were concisely touched.

some chapters even have multiple names.

you can think of a chapter name as a Highlight to some verse which can be remembered quickly i.e. usually special verse of that chapter (you will not see a chapter named after a verse which is repeated in many other chapters AFAIK, its only after a verse which is exclusive for this chapter)

 

[deepstrasz]

Chapter of Mariam include Mariam Story, which is the second story mentioned in the chapter, not the first. but if you compare it with the other stories, it was the longest (in that chapter), and others were concisely touched.

some chapters even have multiple names.

Yeah, a lovely story.

I found it annoying that many things in the Quran were rewritten/retold as if not to be forgotten. That's quite propagandistic.

 

[Map Designer]

I found it annoying that many things in the Quran were rewritten/retold as if not to be forgotten. That's quite propagandistic.

if you mean retelling stories he mentioned before
Why though? You should know that Quran is (probably) not meant to be a book of history.


Stories aren't mentioned just for the sake of stories, each one has purpose.

when some story is retold, it usually (or in fact always) retold from a different point of view, high lighting different aspects of the story.


You can see films/series re-showing same motion from different angles. why? You can see different things from that angle.

though there could be other reasons too. some things are important and should be retold because they are essential part of the islamic belief. You can see these things perhaps in physics books too. when solving problems, the auther reminds the reader some basic principles that he based his calculations upon.

I am also pretty sure many things are repeated at school to be learned (pronunciation, basic arithmetic, etc)

would you call it propaganda when its on math book or if it happened at school?

 

[deepstrasz]

when some story is retold, it usually (or in fact always) retold from a different point of view, high lighting different aspects of the story.

Not always. Sometimes it's basically the same thing in there as a reminder.

You can see films/series re-showing same motion from different angles. why? You can see different things from that angle.

That's different.
The message in the Quran is not supposed to be subject to debate or interpreted but taken as is, no? So, if Allah gave various angles, that would only cause confusion.

would you call it propaganda when its on math book or if it happened at school?

No because they do not force you to need or know it. Sure, you need it to pass some tests. Afterwards you could be free of it depending on what you want to do next in your life.
So while you could say that you're not forced to know the Quran or respect it but that would lead you to Hell while not knowing math won't.

 

[Map Designer]

No because they do not force you to need or know it. Sure, you need it to pass some tests. Afterwards you could be free of it depending on what you want to do next in your life.
So while you could say that you're not forced to know the Quran or respect it but that would lead you to Hell while not knowing math won't.

to me, it is repeated to help students absorb the idea. and similar thing can be said here.

 

[deepstrasz]

to me, it is repeated to help students absorb the idea. and similar thing can be said here.

Not to offed or anything but there's that quote: "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough it will be believed".
While the Arab Peninsula people might have had a easier time getting used to the Message ultimately, the Persians and especially the Byzantines, did not.

While some non-Islamic scholars can understand the wisdom in the Quran, most don't also agree with it entirely.

 

[Map Designer]

Not always. Sometimes it's basically the same thing in there as a reminder.

Does it make sense to mention only once that Allah the creator is Singular/single/one? or the day of judgement? I dont find it reasonable, just like in physics we mention conservation of energy nearly in half of the problems.

The message in the Quran is not supposed to be subject to debate or interpreted but taken as is, no? So, if Allah gave various angles, that would only cause confusion.

then why is the Quran documenting many debates? (I would say about 10 to 25% of him is).
He is many times debating those of other beliefs (those who do not blv in day of judgment, or christians, or others). If its not debatable why would he debate them?
though if you have seen the debates and is finally convinced that Quran is the word of Allah the all knowing, then sure you would accept it without debate.
am I missing your point?

Not to offed or anything but there's that quote: "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough it will be believed".

That's one problem with the (so called) righteous: they do not repeat the justice idea enough. They do not demand their rights enough.
Trump on the other hand repeats his bs 25 times in each speach.

 

[deepstrasz]

Does it make sense to mention only once that Allah the creator is Singular/single/one? or the day of judgement? I dont find it reasonable, just like in physics we mention conservation of energy nearly in half of the problems.

Well, you start with the basics and use them afterwards. You don't relearn the multiplication table before each exercise.

He is many times debating those of other beliefs (those who do not blv in day of judgment, or christians, or others). If its not debatable why would he debate them?

You have to take the words of the Quran for granted. There is no what if but only that is how Allah wills it, how Allah demands it.
Criticizing the other religions of course is also a strategy to gather followers. Can someone actually prove than the Quran is the absolute truth and the other Abrahamic and non-Abrahamic as not?
The Quran is a syncretic belief, a fusion between Judaism and Christianity. Christianity is a syncretism between Judaism and Buddhism whilst Judaism is a syncretism of Zoroastrianism and Babylonian religion and others in the Middle East.

Trump on the other hand repeats his bs 25 times in each speach.

Maybe, at least it's saner bullshit as it doesn't include vandalism and setting property on fire.
Crap may also be subjective. You know, "one man's trash, another's treasure".

 

[Nowow]

I love Surat ul Sammak. That's the one where muhammad buys Salmon from peter griffin.

 

[Zombie]

I have all of the quran memorized and all of the fatwa

ask anything I am an islamic scholar

إذا كنت تستطيع قراءة هذا فأنت مثلي الجنس

 

[deepstrasz]

ask anything

Anything?

 

[San]

this thread growing with exploding pace

 

[deepstrasz]

this thread growing with exploding pace

caliphate worthy

 

[MasterBlaster]

I've read a selection of quotes/pages while I was at college. And yes, they were indeed biased, in this case pretty strongly against Islam.

Am I interested in reading more? Absolutely not. I just couldn't care less about Quran or any other religious book for that matter.

 

[deepstrasz]

One thing that boggles my mind is the promised Quran paradise of the afterlife that includes carnal desires (fair maidens with beautiful black eyes, something) and human, well animal, pleasures (wine and whatnot).
All that spiritual life to not surpass the human condition at all? Feels like going into a very lovely zoo.
The Christian paradise is not that much more different, the difference is the forgiving of sins and whatnot.
In the Hebrew Tanakh, it doesn't really look like there's that kind of hope for humanity since they sinned and will basically spend their rest of their lives on Earth even after the Messiah comes back.
Zoroastrianism pretty much covers the three above since it's the religion that influenced Judaism in the first place.
And of course roots, or maybe more prudently written, similarities can be seen in Egyptian and Babylonian/Sumerian mythology.

In Buddhism and Jainism, the point is evading all grief and pleasures, to not be attached by anything that might hurt your spiritual purity, thus nirvana means the escape from the eternal cycle of reincarnations (samsara) and reaching a state of pure happiness or tranquility with no god to approve or disapprove of it. Unlike Jainism, Buddhism is a bit more to the fantasy side, with asuras and devas as a sort of angels and demons->lesser gods. In Buddhism there are many Heaven/Paradise planes and each one needs to be surpassed through purifying the soul.

So, in the end, what does make more sense, what you'd like as a human being or transcendence, surpassing the fear of the unknown so that humanity would have a hope of further evolution to a higher race/species?

 

[Kyrbi0]

You're forgetting "eternal progression of Love, Dominion & Influence by attaining our Eternal heritage & becoming Like Unto our Heavenly Parents". ; )

 

[deepstrasz]

You're forgetting "eternal progression of Love, Dominion & Influence by attaining our Eternal heritage & becoming Like Unto our Heavenly Parents". ; )

I've written from the top of my head. It's not an essay.

Humanity will never be put on the same level as the angels, jinns, Amesha Spentas. Even saints and martyrs would be on a higher plane than regular believers.
Abrahamic religions were never a communism paradise. Humanity was just a mindless animal in a zoo of Heaven before the snake indirectly gave them knowledge and awareness.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Well, that's not the whole story... But this is a thread about the Quran, so I digress. : )

 

[MasterBlaster]

One thing that boggles my mind is the promised Quran paradise of the afterlife that includes carnal desires (fair maidens with beautiful black eyes, something) and human, well animal, pleasures (wine and whatnot).

If you were to write a book that is meant to entice a lot of people with a promise of afterlife, what would you go with - something that's easy to understand for pretty much everyone like virgins and wine or something more abstract like eternal happiness or enlightement?

Pro tip: most of your target demographic are simple people with simple desires.

I'm not saying that Quran or the Islam afterlife are fake, but... psychologically - it makes sense that people flocked to religions that offered rewards that were easy for them to understand and imagine, especially given that the early adopters were simple, poor people who lacked all or many of these things in life.

 

[deepstrasz]

If you were to write a book that is meant to entice a lot of people with a promise of afterlife, what would you go with - something that's easy to understand for pretty much everyone like virgins and wine or something more abstract like eternal happiness or enlightement?

I wouldn't write one. Each understand happiness and paradise in their own way.
Also, the Indians had no problem with abstract concepts and they were also mostly simple people and whatnot. Their philosophies weren't for the rich or aristocracy only. Indeed they knew how to read, at least the monks, elders and whatnot did. But religion is not only worshiped by priests. The uneducated do too as seen with the Hebrews and they were most of the time complaining because they had little to eat and had to go through a long desert trip.

 

[Map Designer]

If you were to write a book that is meant to entice a lot of people with a promise of afterlife, what would you go with - something that's easy to understand for pretty much everyone like virgins and wine or something more abstract like eternal happiness or enlightement?

Pro tip: most of your target demographic are simple people with simple desires.

I'm not saying that Quran or the Islam afterlife are fake, but... psychologically - it makes sense that people flocked to religions that offered rewards that were easy for them to understand and imagine, especially given that the early adopters were simple, poor people who lacked all or many of these things in life.

what if your target demographic is everyone?

I am not sure if you knew, but in Quran, there is something greater than these things you mentioned.

Spoiler: Chapter 9 Verse 72

Muhsin Khan and Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali
Allah has promised to the believers -men and women, - Gardens under which rivers flow to dwell therein forever, and beautiful mansions in Gardens of 'Adn (Eden Paradise). But the greatest bliss is the Good Pleasure of Allah. That is the supreme success.

Sahih International
Allah has promised the believing men and believing women gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally, and pleasant dwellings in gardens of perpetual residence; but approval from Allah is greater. It is that which is the great attainment.

Abdul Haleem
God has promised the believers, both men and women, Gardens graced with flowing streams where they will remain; good, peaceful homes in Gardens of lasting bliss; and- greatest of all- God’s good pleasure. That is the supreme triumph.

Mufti Taqi Usmani
Allah has promised to the believers, male and female, gardens beneath which rivers flow, where they shall live forever, and good homes in gardens of eternity. And Allah’s pleasure is above all. That is the supreme success.

Yusuf Ali
Allah hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of Allah: that is the supreme felicity.

Mohammed Marmaduke William Pickthall
Allah promiseth to the believers, men and women, Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide - blessed dwellings in Gardens of Eden. And - greater (far)! - acceptance from Allah. That is the supreme triumph.

this kinda goes with the wise saying:
there are three kinds of worshipers of Allah:

1. Those who worship him due to fear of punishment: thats the worship of slaves
2. Those who worship him due to greed/liking/longingTo his rewards: thats the worship of the tradesmen.
3. Those who worship him Because he is Worthy of worship, and to thank his endless favours (as much as they can), and because of loving him: and that is the worship of the Free/generous.

 

[deepstrasz]

Those who worship him Because he is Worthy of worship, and to thank his endless favours (as much as they can), and because of loving him: and that is the worship of the Free/generous.

Love without benefits?
Sure, humans do it for other creatures too. For instance, you don't love your dog because it offers you attention, necessarily. It's actually the reverse, the dog wants your attention and might "love" you for the benefits: food, shelter etc.
Humans might also love other humans that beat them up, use them, so on and still continue to love them. Some call this the Stockholm Syndrome.

Anyways, this type of godly love is a Christian thing. God is love and there's no other greater love than that for and of God.
In the Tanakh, the emphasis was more on respecting God's laws early on. Afterwards, blind belief is used in various moral stories, notably the Isaac and Abraham parable.
What I see in the Quran is that Allah kind of demands unconditional love.
Allah is more like Yahweh than God in Christianity since the latter is more Buddhist influenced.

However, those verses you've shown do not prove there is something more than humanly pleasures, something to transcend to. Loving Allah is also done during lifetime not only after or in Eden.

 

[Map Designer]

However, those verses you've shown do not prove there is something more than humanly pleasures, something to transcend to. Loving Allah is also done during lifetime not only after or in Eden.

?

"and god being pleased with them is greater"

if you consider Allah being pleased with you is humanly pleasure than yes. Though my message was a comment on @MasterBlaster when he said its nothing but Gardens, rivers, virgins and wine (and probably other materialistic stuff).

Though I would think that even these 4 mentioned are probably closest thing in this world that resembles the reward in the hereafter, but thats another story. I think all Muslims know its not exactly like this world.

 

[deepstrasz]

Though I would think that even these 4 mentioned are probably closest thing in this world that resembles the reward in the hereafter, but thats another story. I think all Muslims know its not exactly like this world.

It's either how it's mentioned or else it's left to interpretation.

"and god being pleased with them is greater"

What about what pleases them and not God?
There emphasis is on God and not on individuals. Humans don't matter in the greater aspect.
"Allah knows but you do not", "it is how Allah wants" can be used for anything from being sad to suffering and whatnot. How are you supposed to see that fair when others don't feel your pain?
So it doesn't matter what happens to you as long as Allah is satisfied. Everyone is supposed to work to satisfy Allah, not themselves.

 

[Map Designer]

So it doesn't matter what happens to you as long as Allah is satisfied. Everyone is supposed to work to satisfy Allah, not themselves.

You probably got it right.

How are you supposed to see that fair when others don't feel your pain?

thats why they say: "it belittles my pain that Allah sees me"
once you know Allah is by yourside, others wont matter to you; and once you know he is not, it wouldnt matter if all creatures are by yourside.

It's either how it's mentioned or else it's left to interpretation.

you mean if something isnt exactly seen on earth it cannot be described or similarized?

 

[deepstrasz]

thats why they say: "it belittles my pain that Allah sees me"
once you know Allah is by yourside, others wont matter to you; and once you know he is not, it wouldnt matter if all creatures are by yourside.

That is subjective however. Some people don't want anyone by their side.
Some want everyone to give them attention.
Some want to experience divinity.

you mean if something isnt exactly seen on earth it cannot be described or similarized?

Well, you can't expect me to read wine and rivers and to think of highly advanced DNA enhancing juice and inter-alternate reality wormholes.

 

[MasterBlaster]

"and god being pleased with them is greater"

So you're saying that people signed up for Islam just because they wanted to make some ephemeral, abstract being that they've never even seen happy? And they did it just for the sake of it, not because they expected that if the deity is pleased with them, it will reward them in some way? Yeah, I don't think so. Now, I'm not arguing that there aren't people who don't believe in this way, especially nowadays, but...

if you consider Allah being pleased with you is humanly pleasure than yes. Though my message was a comment on @MasterBlaster when he said its nothing but Gardens, rivers, virgins and wine (and probably other materialistic stuff).

That's not really what I've said - my argument was that Islam (and a lot of other religions) gained popularity because they offered rewards that were easy to understand and thus resonated with people. And that made people flock to them.

The thing is, there are many practical aspects to religions - people who have it rough in life and hope to secure a better lot in life for themselves, people who are scared of death (due to the natural human fear of unknown) and need reassurance, people who did a lot of bad stuff in life and are afraid of the potential punishment and finally... higher class of society that can use religion as a tool, such as a great way of justifying conquests, gaining popularity with the people or legitimizing their position.

Were there people who adopted Islam, because they wanted to please Allah and saw this as an ultimate reward? Perhaps, but I'd argue that the vast majority of people took up Islam, because of a) the promise of some personal gain, e.g. absolution or hope for a better life, or b) because they were politically or socially forced to doing so, e.g. after being conquered by someone who followed that religion or c) because it was politically prudent.

Now, to avoid further confusion - I'm not arguing that some people aren't faithful or they don't care about pleasing their deity. All I'm saying that the practical aspects of religions played a key role in their growth. And that's why offering way down-to-earth, easy to imagine rewards, such as wine, virgins, comfortable life was smart, because practically it was a very tangible and easy to imagine reward for the masses that endured a lot of hardships and such a promise made the relligion alluring to them.

 

[deepstrasz]

Were there people who adopted Islam, because they wanted to please Allah and saw this as an ultimate reward? Perhaps, but I'd argue that the vast majority of people took up Islam, because of a) the promise of some personal gain, e.g. absolution or hope for a better life, or b) because they were politically or socially forced to doing so, e.g. after being conquered by someone who followed that religion or c) because it was politically prudent.

Abu Sufyan basically had to convert to Islam for interest more than belief.

 

[Prince Aero]

none of it, ever