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Hive Olympics: Race Expansion
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It's a joke reference to the real olympics...
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Somehow I think you're missing the entire thing =/
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So here's what I think it should resemble.
Teams of three. A modeler, a terrainer, and a coder. The teams must add an additional unit and hero to each race and create a custom map for it.
I think there should be a standard for size of map, amount of spells, and amount of models. Maybe not all the exact same, but not a huge range.
Map: Must be no more than four players (obviously the amount of players is discussable, but I personally think we should keep the maps to a smaller size. It can take a while to terrain large maps well).
Spells: Really is there a need for a max? I don't think anyone will do more than one or two per unit and of course the hero spells.
Models: Since I don't model I have no clue how many is reasonable. I would say maybe two heroes and two units? Or all eight?
What about imports? I think terrainers should be able to use imports. Should teams be allowed to use models on the site? I don't think anyone should be allowed to use spells that have already been made.
Teams of three. A modeler, a terrainer, and a coder. The teams must add an additional unit and hero to each race and create a custom map for it.
I think there should be a standard for size of map, amount of spells, and amount of models. Maybe not all the exact same, but not a huge range.
Map: Must be no more than four players (obviously the amount of players is discussable, but I personally think we should keep the maps to a smaller size. It can take a while to terrain large maps well).
Spells: Really is there a need for a max? I don't think anyone will do more than one or two per unit and of course the hero spells.
Models: Since I don't model I have no clue how many is reasonable. I would say maybe two heroes and two units? Or all eight?
What about imports? I think terrainers should be able to use imports. Should teams be allowed to use models on the site? I don't think anyone should be allowed to use spells that have already been made.
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Gilles, heroes should be first priority for models, seeing as there are easily available models for units which are unique to the race, and already in the MPQs. Heroes, however, are a character model or an already used hero model.
Hero_Lief, ingame skins?
Hero_Lief, ingame skins?
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I've been thinking about that.
You know, compared to the coder and modelers job the terraining is really the easiest one. Even if you make godliekz terain.
Which is why i suggest we disallow any custom imports for the terrian. That way, terrainers have to be resourceful and creative. (Creating structures with archs, making figures by flying doods, etc.) This way its a bit harder for the terrainers.
Also, not only does the terrain have to be good, but it has to be symmetrical. So that no matter what player you are, no player has an advantage over the other due to their position on the terrain map.
I know people are going to argue about custom imports, but this way, its not about who uses the best custom model for the terrain or who can FIND the best custom model for the terrain. Its about who can work with what they've got.
Its alot better, trust me.
You know, compared to the coder and modelers job the terraining is really the easiest one. Even if you make godliekz terain.
Which is why i suggest we disallow any custom imports for the terrian. That way, terrainers have to be resourceful and creative. (Creating structures with archs, making figures by flying doods, etc.) This way its a bit harder for the terrainers.
Also, not only does the terrain have to be good, but it has to be symmetrical. So that no matter what player you are, no player has an advantage over the other due to their position on the terrain map.
I know people are going to argue about custom imports, but this way, its not about who uses the best custom model for the terrain or who can FIND the best custom model for the terrain. Its about who can work with what they've got.
Its alot better, trust me.
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*Spells* - Should only be a minimum, because the units we make may be better served without many (or any) abilities. Minimum of 5 (4 hero abilities (three 3-lvl regulars, one 1-lvl ultimate), 1 unit ability.
*Imports* - I agree with Stallion; no custom imports to even the Terraining playing field.
*Skinning* - That's a valid concern; although ingame is best (forces the modeller to think about everything he can use, and to be creative with the ingame textures (I've seen good stuff with that)), not everyone can model and skin. Maybe remove the whole "Terrainer" category and make the 3rd person a Texture Artist?
Otherwise, I vote in-game.
*Number of Creations* - Erg... 1 unit and 1 hero for each race is still 4 heroes and units. That's quite a lot. I still think it should be either only 1 race to buff up, or 2. 4 might take quite a while (if not for the Terrainer/Skinner and Coder, then definitely for the modeller).
Or, perhaps, we say *yes* to 4 heroes and 4 units, but only the heroes have to get custom models (anything more is extra points?). Or 2 heroes + 2 units, or 1 hero + 4 units, or something... Some combination. But preferably not *all* custom.
*Map Size* - If we keep the Terrainer, then yeah, 4 players sounds pretty fair.
*Team Size* - I definitely think 3 should be the max, if we want to get anything done. 4 is cutting it close, methinks.
So what's the ruling about custom models made after the contest; like, little spell sfx or buff art, recolors made in Magos that would fit better, etc. Can that stuff be made by the modeller (or anyone) and used? Or will this be "no 'after-contest' resources may be used, except for the custom models the modeller makes"?
Mostly, I think you got it, Gilles.
Thanks for picking this up.
*Imports* - I agree with Stallion; no custom imports to even the Terraining playing field.
*Skinning* - That's a valid concern; although ingame is best (forces the modeller to think about everything he can use, and to be creative with the ingame textures (I've seen good stuff with that)), not everyone can model and skin. Maybe remove the whole "Terrainer" category and make the 3rd person a Texture Artist?
Otherwise, I vote in-game.
*Number of Creations* - Erg... 1 unit and 1 hero for each race is still 4 heroes and units. That's quite a lot. I still think it should be either only 1 race to buff up, or 2. 4 might take quite a while (if not for the Terrainer/Skinner and Coder, then definitely for the modeller).
Or, perhaps, we say *yes* to 4 heroes and 4 units, but only the heroes have to get custom models (anything more is extra points?). Or 2 heroes + 2 units, or 1 hero + 4 units, or something... Some combination. But preferably not *all* custom.
*Map Size* - If we keep the Terrainer, then yeah, 4 players sounds pretty fair.
*Team Size* - I definitely think 3 should be the max, if we want to get anything done. 4 is cutting it close, methinks.
So what's the ruling about custom models made after the contest; like, little spell sfx or buff art, recolors made in Magos that would fit better, etc. Can that stuff be made by the modeller (or anyone) and used? Or will this be "no 'after-contest' resources may be used, except for the custom models the modeller makes"?
Mostly, I think you got it, Gilles.
Thanks for picking this up.
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Yeah, we could certainly make the modellers use in-game textures, however I think if they want they can use their own skins [if they can also skin].
Terrainer wise, we should definitely keep them. I'm bored of blizzard maps with custom things, and I CERTAINLY don't want this to become like Creep Rebellion on Wc3c. Also, yes I agree fully with the fact that terrainers cannot use custom models. It'll make it much harder for them to create their own ideas. This way, they actually have to use their head!
3 people is really perfect, 4 is stretching it.
Terrainer wise, we should definitely keep them. I'm bored of blizzard maps with custom things, and I CERTAINLY don't want this to become like Creep Rebellion on Wc3c. Also, yes I agree fully with the fact that terrainers cannot use custom models. It'll make it much harder for them to create their own ideas. This way, they actually have to use their head!
3 people is really perfect, 4 is stretching it.
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A) Doing melee terrain without imports isn't all that much harder since you see everything from top view. As well, if you take out imports, it only lowers the creative options for terrainers. Although I'm fine with no imports if that's what people want.
B) I refuse to be forced to make a symmetrical terrain. It's boring, and actually just makes the terrainers job easy. To make things more interesting, harder, and fun, I'd want to try and make a more unique map that is balanced. Balance is the hard part that makes the terrainers job more difficult.
B) I refuse to be forced to make a symmetrical terrain. It's boring, and actually just makes the terrainers job easy. To make things more interesting, harder, and fun, I'd want to try and make a more unique map that is balanced. Balance is the hard part that makes the terrainers job more difficult.
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No no, you might have understood me wrong. By symmetrical, I'm not talking about square tiles exactly spaced from each other. But if there is a base with one entrance to it, the other base must also have one entrance to it. Or if one base has a gold mine closer to it or something, than the other must too.
It must be FAIR. This isnt just show off terraining, this is balanced terraining. It has to be balanced so that the terrain doesnt give you an advantage over anyone else.
But how you choose to do that is your choice.
I disagree. Infact, i believe in completly the opposite. I think with no imports, terrainers become MORE creative. In that they have to be resourceful. (For example, a stone statue import. Instead of that, use a mixture of doodads to construct your own statue by yourself. FOR EXAMPLE)
It must be FAIR. This isnt just show off terraining, this is balanced terraining. It has to be balanced so that the terrain doesnt give you an advantage over anyone else.
But how you choose to do that is your choice.
I disagree. Infact, i believe in completly the opposite. I think with no imports, terrainers become MORE creative. In that they have to be resourceful. (For example, a stone statue import. Instead of that, use a mixture of doodads to construct your own statue by yourself. FOR EXAMPLE)
frostwhisper
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I'll finalize them tomorrow. Though I might ask for Poot's assistance, since I'm really not that good at making these. I will shorten the thing to two races, a 4-man map. Teams will remain of 3. Stuff added will be a building, a unit and a hero.
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May I request (in the finished rules) that we not specify Modeller/Terrainer/Triggerer? That way, it's still a team of 3, and people can specialize if they want. But any overlapping can be allowed (especially if one or more of the members is unable to complete their part)
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He wants to know if teams have to have one person do terrain, one person do triggers, and one person do models, or if they can each help in all areas. The modeler doesn't have to just model, he can terrain or script too.
frostwhisper
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Nah. Each person will be sticking to his role (otherwise people like HT could do the entire bloody thing themselves xD).
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Gilles said:
Exactly; thank you. Sorry if I didn't word that cohesively...
Hmm.. So does that mean we cannot help each other at all, or just that we are keeping with the "I'm the sole Modeller, He's the sole coder, She's the sole Terrainer" mantra? (By "help at all", I basically mean "in an emergency")frostwhisper said:
~~~
Either way, I agree. Let's get this thing on like Diddy Kong! I will Code for the masses!
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Yes, lets get this started.
1337 megah uberh terainer 4 hier
1337 megah uberh terainer 4 hier
frostwhisper
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Wait...
Doesn't that shunt creativity a bit? I was thinking of having a mega-magical fortress that the New Custom Unit can summon into being. (thus Unit -> Building)
Wasn't there talk of lightening the load on the modeller? 6 is quite a lot in a concentrated time; I'm sure a great deal of quality will be lost. Also, there are still quite a lot of good in-game models that are unused.
And make sure to specify whether it must use in-game textures, custom textures, or doesn't matter (preferably the latter).
(I actually agree with this rule, lol) - But you mean "you may not take models/spells that have already been made and copy/paste them into your map in any way", right?
So what, we're hosed if one member is unable to complete? I think their should be a contingency plan built into that rule.
Doesn't that shunt creativity a bit? I was thinking of having a mega-magical fortress that the New Custom Unit can summon into being. (thus Unit -> Building)
Wasn't there talk of lightening the load on the modeller? 6 is quite a lot in a concentrated time; I'm sure a great deal of quality will be lost. Also, there are still quite a lot of good in-game models that are unused.
And make sure to specify whether it must use in-game textures, custom textures, or doesn't matter (preferably the latter).
(I actually agree with this rule, lol) - But you mean "you may not take models/spells that have already been made and copy/paste them into your map in any way", right?
Huh? Do you mean, the two races we'll be editing need to be balanced with each other, or that all 4 should be balanced with the 2 +Additions? That would be pretty hard, since the other 2 wouldn't have the Additions...
So what, we're hosed if one member is unable to complete? I think their should be a contingency plan built into that rule.
frostwhisper
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The four races and "must be manufactured" things are mistakes from the old WIP. Fixed them.
frostwhisper
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Nope ^^
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