FOOTMEN FRENZY AI (MS)

[Paillan]

This map is clearly not yours and we would ask you too provide us the permmition to edit it from the original author. Otherwise this will be rejected.

Set to Awaiting update
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[Mohamed Saber]

This map is clearly not yours and we would ask you too provide us the permmition to edit it from the original author. Otherwise this will be rejected.

Thank you for the review But this Map is MINE except the terrain belong to manzana i edit it and give him credit.
this map i worked on it since 2013 or 2014 i don't remember exactly then i stopped, then continued in this month and added some new things.

(i mean with the word "map" the whole map (w3x))

if there is another issue please tell me what is it

thank you

 

[Paillan]

Thank you you for the review But this map is mine except the terrain belong to manzana i edit it and give him credit.
this map i worked on it since 2013 or 2014 i don't remember exactly then i stopped, then continued in this month and added some new things.

(i mean with the word "map" the whole map (w3x))

if there is another issue please tell me what is it

thank you

As far as I understand you use the same heroes all footmen frenzy maps have. Is that so or am I just assuming? (there's too many version to be consistent on this).

 

[Mohamed Saber]

As far as I understand you use the same heroes all footmen frenzy maps have. Is that so or am I just assuming? (there's too many version to be consistent on this).

I use heroes from Blizzard and few custom in the middle as shown in the screenshot and the hero that have different models like paladin (Uther, arthas, Proudmoore, and so on) you can choose one of them in the game.

I didn't see all footmen frenzy maps but i know that hive has a classification for those maps that means the number of those maps not a problem

My map has:

-Teams (Human, Orc, Undead, Night Elf) with the related spawn units (Footman, Grunt, Ghoul, Druid of the Claw Night Elf Form) and heroes of it and 4 common heroes.
-The unique research is useful for the team's heroes
-That allow death knight and lich to use their abilites efficiently as example. (I didn't see that in any footmen map before)

any team can't repeat the same hero as a user player. you will never see 2 similar hero in the same team except AI players have constant heroes. (I didn't see that in any footmen map before)

please try to test the map and you will see the difference in the gameplay may i forget to mention somthing or somthing i can't describe.

 

[Paillan]

Melee heroes? what spells do the custom heroes have?
I have played footmen frenzy with extra races before, so that's not new really.
As for repeating heroes, eh, I guess that makes something?

 

[Mohamed Saber]

Melee heroes? what spells do the custom heroes have?
I have played footmen frenzy with extra races before, so that's not new really.
As for repeating heroes, eh, I guess that makes something?

Custom Heroes:

Jaina: Mystical Hero, adept at ranged assaults. Can learn Crushing Wave, Polymorph, Disperse Aura (The opposite of Brilliance Aura) and Giant Water Elemental. |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land and air units.|r

Priestess of the Light: Mystical Hero, Can learn Healing Wave, Dispel Magic, Inner Fire and Holy Nova (Like Monsoon but different value). |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land and air units.|r

Sylvanas Windrunner: Warrior Hero, adept at enhancing ranged attacks and slaying enemies from afar. Can learn Paralysing Arrow, Camouflage, Command Aura, and Volley of Arrows. ("tomoraider" as i mentioned in the credit) |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land and air units.|r

Gul'dan: Mystical Hero, adept at ranged assaults. Can learn Firebolt, Unholy Frenzy, Horrible Aura (The opposite of unholy Aura) and Soul Absorption (Mana steal but kill enemy or friendly). |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land and air units.|r

Sen'jin: Supporting Hero, adept at healing magics and voodoo curses. Can learn Healing Ward, Stasis Trap, Sentry Ward and Voodoo Spirits. |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land and air units.|r

Warlord: Warrior Hero, exceptional at absorbing damage and melee combat. Can learn Finger of Death, Thunder Clap, Command Aura and Doom. |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land units.|r

Lord Archimonde: Mystical Hero, effective at ranged attacks and scouting. Can learn Rain of Fire, Dark Portal, Far Sight and Earthquake. |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land and air units.|r

Lord Kil'jaeden: Cunning Hero, adept at controlling combat. Can learn Finger of Death, Anti-magic Shell, Frustration Aura (The opposite of Endurance Aura), and Rain of Chaos. |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land and air units.|r

Pit Lord: Warrior Hero, adept at terrorizing enemies. Can learn Shock Wave, Howl of Terror, Cleaving Attack, and Doom. |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land units.|r

Ghost of the Grove: Mystical Hero. Can learn Spirit Link, Rejuvenation, Curse, and Tornado. |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land and air units.|r

Lady Vashj: Mystical Hero, adept at ranged combat. Can learn Forked Lightning, Frost Arrows, Mana Shield, and Monsoon. |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land and air units.|r

Naga Royal Guard: Warrior Hero, particularly adept at sea magic. Can learn Crushing Wave, Frost Bolt, Frost Armor and Summon Sea Elemental. |n|n|cffffcc00Attacks land units.|r

Note:
-When I say the opposite it means also suitable values.
-All heroes have Suicide Ability (The hero can kill himself).
-Melee heroes that have direct attack and collision with the enemy units can upgrade the attack damage and armor like the footman as an example and the unique upgrade like animal war training in the Human team.

 

[Paillan]

I really doubt dark portal, finger of death and specially soul absorption are balanced. Some heroes have the same spells and Vashj is almost the same as a regular naga witch.

 

[Mohamed Saber]

I really doubt dark portal, finger of death and specially soul absorption are balanced. Some heroes have the same spells and Vashj is almost the same as a regular naga witch.

-All abilities and teams are balanced if you found any team unbeatable in the GAMEPLAY in a continuous way (user player vs user player) report here and describe the situation. I prefer (full team members vs full team members).

-lady Vashj and other heroes already have unique abilities i will never change this but in rare cases i redistributed some.

-Some abilites enhanced a little in a better way.

-Some few Issues in the map need correction I discovered it but I wait until the end of this conversation to upload the map again.

 

[Wark]

I'll take some time to look at this with my team this weekend. Will update with a post later.

 

[Mohamed Saber]

I'll take some time to look at this with my team this weekend. Will update with a post later.

You are welcome any time.

 

[Wark]

Alright, I played this with a friend along with AI.
Here's what I noticed:

Gameplay

• There seems to be some balance issues. Grunts and Druids at the start have quite a bit more health and damage than Ghouls or Footmen, yet they spawn at the same rate. I noticed you made them give more bounty and use more food, but I feel this does not compensate for the superior forces or rush tactics. Sure, footmen have defend, but that only applies to piercing damage, not normal damage. I notice this imbalance continues as things tier up.
• It seems to have a solid techtree. It seems similar to other footman frenzy maps, just with races.
• Heroes with auras are more powerful than other heroes if you manage your groups.
  
• With the initial 10 second spawn time, a lot of the game was spent waiting for your forces to build up to the food cap and not obliterating your forces so you have some form of defence. The majority of your gold income seems to come from killing, but towers go down fast. So, your units are generally your better defence and offence.

Aesthetics

• Pretty flat map, not much to the terrain. But, such it is for footman frenzy.

Suggestions

• Would it be possible to implement an attack-move command to spawned units for your town hall's rally point? That could prove interesting for other possible game modes (macro management battles with more rapid spawns, for example). See what you can tweak to make things more unique.
• Balance is definitely an issue for upgrade costs, tower costs, and initial units. I recommend calculating damage per second (average damage range / attack speed) and try and get all units to roughly the same damage per second (DPS) per tier. Also, calculate their effective health (hp x [1 + damage reduction from armor] x [1 + any evasion chance]) and try to make that even.
• Of course, unit balance could vary depending on abilities they have to give it some "flavor." Or, some units could do more DPS with less effective health, and vice versa.

 

[Mohamed Saber]

Alright, I played this with a friend along with AI.
Here's what I noticed:

Gameplay

• There seems to be some balance issues. Grunts and Druids at the start have quite a bit more health and damage than Ghouls or Footmen, yet they spawn at the same rate. I noticed you made them give more bounty and use more food, but I feel this does not compensate for the superior forces or rush tactics. Sure, footmen have defend, but that only applies to piercing damage, not normal damage. I notice this imbalance continues as things tier up.
• It seems to have a solid techtree. It seems similar to other footman frenzy maps, just with races.
• Heroes with auras are more powerful than other heroes if you manage your groups.

- Balance depend on (Attack Damage, Attack rate, range, Maximum Number of Targets, Armor Type, Defense Type, Defense Base, Movement speed. Collision Size, Spawn Time, Food Cost, Hit Point Base, Hit Point Regeneration, Hit Point Regeneration Type, Gold Bounty, Abilities of the unit, Abilities of the heroes, Upgrades, ...). It is complicated.

- In one vs one attack Grunt and Druid are Balanced.

- Heroes with auras more powerful the large units number you have (YES) but they are limited.

- The unique upgrade of Night Elf and Undead modified for balance issue.

- Towers are the same in blizzard at the beginning but can be upgraded.

- Every team has its advantages and disadvantages.

- "spawned units for your town hall's rally point" I didn't try if there is a way to order spawn units to follow the rally point. Is that you mean?

Thank you for playing and if there is something i didn't answer may i didn't understand it well.

If you found unbeatable team please inform me.

 

[Wark]

Balance depend on... It is complicated.

Oh, I know. The important thing is to calculate effective health based on these factors and damage per second.
As for things that seem unbeatable, I would say Grunts early game tips way in their favor because they have the greatest effective health and DPS.
From opening up your map in the editor and looking into it, you changed all armor types to "large" and weapon damage to "normal," so that isn't a factor.

The most important things to balance are: base armor, health, attack damage, dice factor for attacks, attack speed, and armor upgrade factors.
Bounty doesn't mean as much if mass grunts kill you off early game anyways.
Health regen is negligible unless it can offset the damage dealt.

 

[Mohamed Saber]

As for things that seem unbeatable, I would say Grunts early game tips way in their favor because they have the greatest effective health and DPS.

No, Orcs can be beaten
what team you played with and heroes chosen (all of you)

 

[deepstrasz]

1. You need to set levels in the descriptions for spells (example for: Inner Fire, Dispel Magic) and mention for each level the values.
2. Spells are just normal Warcraft III ones.
3. The terrain is plain almost without any decoration. Mostly you can see one tile spread out on large patches of land.
4. Does not really improve the original and then remakes of the Footmen Frenzy game.

I vote for Substandard.

 

[Wark]

what team you played with and heroes chosen (all of you)

I was playing humans with Garithos. My friend was undead with a dreadlord.
We got steamrolled by computer Orcs and Night Elfs, 1 team per race (4 player FFA).

 

[Mohamed Saber]

1. You need to set levels in the descriptions for spells (example for: Inner Fire, Dispel Magic) and mention for each level the values.
2. Spells are just normal Warcraft III ones.
3. The terrain is plain almost without any decoration. Mostly you can see one tile spread out on large patches of land.
4. Does not really improve the original and then remakes of the Footmen Frenzy game.

1. Every level has its description except the learning description is general, I will add them later.
2. Spells are many and suitable for the map nature. (not an issue)
3. The terrain is comfortable for eyes and suitable for the footmen frenzy tactics. May I make little changes if there are good suggestions. (not an issue)
4. Try to play full house you and all AI then tell me the difference and what you feel. (And change your team every game)

 

[Mohamed Saber]

I was playing humans with Garithos. My friend was undead with a dreadlord.
We got steamrolled by computer Orcs and Night Elfs, 1 team per race (4 player FFA).

That means you underestimated AI, I was thinking to raise its power.
I will be happy if there are more details like (how long you play and the last upgrade/research you reached you and AI).
But how about when you and your friend played, I think in this case if your friend uses the aura at the begining and save his hero and didn't forget to research and take his care from AI he could win, unless you control the Mana Fountain in a good position.
If you like this kind of maps please try to play with a different team every time you play and different hero.

 

[Wark]

Yes, I noticed that the AI automatically focuses whoever has the least amount of troops.
They turtled until my friend and I fought each other, then they came in to mop up the rest with their large armies and mutually focused each base.
I think it would be interesting in make an "observer" slot just to watch what the AI does against each other, with no human players.

 

[Mohamed Saber]

They turtled until my friend and I fought each other, then they came in to mop up the rest with their large armies and mutually focused each base.

They wait until they are ready to fight. but they also can attack you even your force are strong.

 

[Daffa]

It's promising, but could use some diversion.

 

[Mohamed Saber]

It's promising, but could use some diversion.

Like what.

 

[Daffa]

Tier 2 and tier 3 choices, additional upgrade choices.

 

[Mohamed Saber]

Tier 2 and tier 3 choices, additional upgrade choices.

I don't understand what you mean, but i plan to make tire 3 return to tire 2 as an option.

 

[Daffa]

e.g :
Human : Footman -> Spellbreaker/Archer/Emissary -> Knight/Rifleman/Priest

 

[Mohamed Saber]

e.g :
Human : Footman -> Spellbreaker/Archer/Emissary -> Knight/Rifleman/Priest

There is already:
Human: Footman -> Spellbreaker -> Knight
Orc: Grunt -> Raider -> Tauren
Undead: Ghoul -> Frost Revenant -> Abomination
Orc: Druid of the claw Night Elf Form -> Huntress -> Druid of the claw Bear Form

I said in the description that "you can upgrade your Town Hall to tire 3 (higher tire level stronger units spawn)"

 

[Daffa]

See the slashes, I refer to a choice of upgrade. I don't want to stuck with only one unit choice/tier.

 

[Mohamed Saber]

See the slashes, I refer to a choice of upgrade. I don't want to stuck with only one unit choice/tier.

No Archers nor Spellcasters except heroes will be in my footmenfrenzy. It is a constant thing.

 

[Daffa]

Very well then.

 

[deepstrasz]

Not sufficient differences between this and the original.

Set to Substandard.