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Existence of God

See below.

  • Yes, and I can prove it with logic.

    Votes: 15 17.4%
  • Yes, but I only believe. I can't prove it.

    Votes: 18 20.9%
  • I will remain unaffiliated until proof is given. (No.)

    Votes: 22 25.6%
  • No, it's just an invention.

    Votes: 31 36.0%

  • Total voters
    86
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Level 35
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Am I calling you an Atheist an evil person who is a blight upon humanity? No I am not.

But the belief system could be a scource for all kinds of evil things to happen. Because the morality system is subjective and bends to what ever will justifies it.

Actual Translation:

The thing that defines good and bad is basic common sense and moral judgement.
 
Level 26
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Just to clear things up, so that Elenai can stop using the "not true Christians" defense,

1. Use the term theistic rather than Christian.
2. Get Elenai to define what a "true Christian" is.
 
Level 35
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A true Christian.

-Is saved by the blood of Christ

-Believes in the basic doctrine of Christianity This mostly applies to whether or not a church is truely Christian or not. (The Trinity, Christ's death/burial/resurection, Christ's sacrifice that redeemed us, Salvation through grace alone, Believes the Bible is true and follows its teachings.)
 
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A true Christian.

~ knows the Good News from the same place the Jesus talked about it from ~ the Old Testament

~ delivers the Good News that Jesus called upon the Children of Israel to deliver, which they all knew from their Scriptures

~ keeps faith with the Law and the prophets as Jesus did and called upon the faithful to do.
 
Level 8
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I know this is going back a bit, but can anyone prove that Evolution exists. Don't throw adaption and Darwin's finches at me. Adaption is not evolution nor it is a precursor for evolution. When the seasons change, you adapt to the weather, but this is not evolving for certain types of weather.

More and more evidence is being discovered that shows rocks can form in a matter of years as opposed to thousand/millions of years.

Also, stop generalising and labelling. As someone (i cannot find their quote) said about christians being raised to believe that "godless" is the same as "red guy with two horns" (or something to that effect), it affects judgement. Labelling is one of the biggest problems in society. If you are a guy with a male friend labelled "straight", you have no problems with him. Label this friend "gay" and all of a sudden, he is hitting on you, checking you out, etc.

Each to his own. What does it matter if someone shares your beliefs or not. It doesn't mean you have to kill that person. It does allow for the sharing of ideas. When you share ideas, you can reflect and this can either confirm your beliefs or open your mind to new ideas.

By the way, has this forum converted anyone? :grin:
 
Level 35
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Sorry for the dragging out of old posts but I just got back from school.

It's like me saying "Some Christians are murderers, so all Christians are murderers. However, no Atheists are murderers, because I don't count those ones."

Nay. You misunderstand me. I am not calling all Atheists murderers. I am simply leveling the playing field by showing you mistakes and bad things that Atheists have done as rebuttle to the Christian mistakes argument.

I know that Christians can be murderers. We are not perfect. But for the most part. true Christians do not murder, steal, ect. Many times Atheistic groups (the more extremes ones usually) want to use the Crusades and Inquisition against us calling our religion a violent or evil one. When it was not the entire Christians body that did those things (just as not all Atheists are murderers or thieves or ect). It was a minority of corrupt groups/individuals that were able to move the masses into evil action.

You could compare it this way.

Terrorist extremist Islamic minority groups, compared to majority peaceful muslims.

Now for example. Lets say that these minorities were able to push the majority into a list of crusades over a period of several hundred years, or rile them up into an inquisitorial riot.

Does this clear up anything?

Are we level now?

Are we back to civilized discussion?
 
Level 40
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Nay. You misunderstand me. I am not calling all Atheists murderers. I am simply leveling the playing field by showing you mistakes and bad things that Atheists have done as rebuttle to the Christian mistakes argument.
The question wasn't about what X group has done. It's about what X group has done for the sake of being X group.

And Communists don't do it for the sake of being Atheist -.-

I know that Christians can be murderers. We are not perfect. But for the most part. true Christians do not murder, steal, ect. Many times Atheistic groups (the more extremes ones usually) want to use the Crusades and Inquisition against us calling our religion a violent or evil one. When it was not the entire Christians body that did those things (just as not all Atheists are murderers or thieves or ect). It was a minority of corrupt groups/individuals that were able to move the masses into evil action.

You could compare it this way.

Terrorist extremist Islamic minority groups, compared to majority peaceful muslims.

Now for example. Lets say that these minorities were able to push the majority into a list of crusades over a period of several hundred years, or rile them up into an inquisitorial riot.

Does this clear up anything?

Are we level now?

Are we back to civilized discussion?
I only attacked you because of you claiming all the wrongdoings committed by Atheists were for the sake of Atheism, and for saying an atheist world would be a totalitarian hellhole.
 
Level 35
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I only attacked you because of you claiming all the wrongdoings committed by Atheists were for the sake of Atheism, and for saying an atheist world would be a totalitarian hellhole.

If it went the direction that the USSR went then it would be. But a world that is totally devoid of moral absolutes would not be a good thing.

Any government needs moral absolutes in order to keep order and to keep things standardized.

That is my point. And no I am not trying to open old wounds I am simply showing you what I belive would occur.

And just for balance.....a Christian world would not be good either. (unless ruled by Christ himself but thats another story). Because Christians are still human beings that make mistakes and without check can become corrupt. Much like the old Roman Church during the middle ages.
 
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So basically, the world would eventually be in shitty hands if one group was in charge of the entire world, no matter who that group was, and everybody has their faults, although we seem to think certain groups may have people with more faults than others. Thread over?
 
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If it went the direction that the USSR went then it would be. But a world that is totally devoid of moral absolutes would not be a good thing.

Any government needs moral absolutes in order to keep order and to keep things standardized.

So us humans need an omnipotent father-figure to not kill, rape and steal from each other? I didn't know our race was so infantile.

-*meow*
 
Level 25
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Oops, I voted I do believe in the existance. Oh well. My real answer is:

No. There is no god. Never was, never will be, it's a hoax and I am suprised people still have faith. But then again, it is human nature to want more. And believing in Heaven is wanting more. Even believing in Hell is wanting more of something (Wanting your nemesis to burn in Hell for treating you like shit for a long time or whatever). The average Humans believe or want to believe that there is a Heaven, because this place is where only good people go and it is full of everything that is entertaining, pleasant, amazing, comforting, perfect, etc.
Even I wish for a Heaven. But then again, I don't because I'd end up going to Hell simply for saying this lol.

I believe that when you die, it's kind of like being unconscious or asleep, but you're not dreaming. And in a way, you are aware of it, but really don't. It is very difficult to explain how I believe it is. It is sometimes scary to think about to be honest.

One of the things that makes believing in Hell and Heaven is the fact that if you disobey even just one law(Rule/Commandment) of God and do not confess to a Priest or some holy official, you will go to Hell when you die; and when you're in Hell, you will burn, scream, cry, choke on smoke in anguish, and experience harsh, unexplainable pain for all eternity... but he loves you!
Also, the bible says that God is the "All Merciful", yet at the same time he will not forgive even your worst Sins. This kind of condrigates what the whole merciful thing is about.

Religion is an opinion of belief really. Some believe it. Others don't. It is unproven and never will be. The day a guy in a white cloak and beard, hovers down from the sky in a ray of light down into a church, is the day I will believe. Until then, I am an infedel. A non-believer.

The funny part is that many people get offended when people try to explain why they don't believe and express how they feel about the issue. Is it so bad to side against something that has caused pointless wars for thousands of years? Wars over religion have been going on and off ever since the Greeks were around. Possibly before that time. In fact, we're still fighting over religions in a way between Christianity and Muslims in the Middle East. Can't we just drop the bullshit and move on?

People say that Jerusalem is sacred. A man-made place, mind you. Similar to religion. It's all man-made. I understand that Jerusalem is supposed to be holy because of Jesus being born there or whatever and then other religions find it holy for other reasons that I really don't care about, but honestly, doesn't it annoy you that people get so technical with religion? Blaming things like 9/11 and Sadam Hussein's insanity on religion is a discrace and very dishonorable to those who actually had suffered though the events. It's disrespectful in my own humble opinion. Coming up with facts, instead of saying that it's the enemy's God's fault or their belief in another God, is a lot more meaningful and believeable.

I'd love to go on with this, but there is truely so many ways that I can explain how I feel about religion and the existance of God, besides the few facts that I can't see him execpt maybe in paintings, the fact that I can't hear him or be controlled by him(Unless if I'm crazy), and that I can't find any real scientific evidence that the universe was created by him. To be honest, I choose the "A mixture of gases created mass and so on which formed the universe and eventually created planets, stars, etc. within." theory.
~Craka_J
 
Level 35
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There is no god. Never was, never will be, it's a hoax

Please support your claim.

Ironic that you (strong Atheist) would have to know everything to know that God for a fact does'nt exist. And if you did know everything you would be Omniscient, and if you knew everything you would be all powerful Omnipotent, for knowledge is power and if you knew everything you would know how to wield power. And if you are Omniscient and Omnipotent, you would know how to be Omnipresent, and have to power to make it so, and not to mention, that inorder to be Omniscient, you must be Omnipresent. You would then be all three Omni's and thus be a god and thus a god would exist.


is this thread still going? i tought it would have been closed, deleted and burned from the memories of all hive members by now.

It was going to die but someone decided to resurect it. And then it was going to die again, until Shados decided to resurect it.
 
Level 27
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No. There is no god. Never was, never will be, it's a hoax and I am suprised people still have faith. But then again, it is human nature to want more. And believing in Heaven is wanting more. Even believing in Hell is wanting more of something (Wanting your nemesis to burn in Hell for treating you like shit for a long time or whatever). The average Humans believe or want to believe that there is a Heaven, because this place is where only good people go and it is full of everything that is entertaining, pleasant, amazing, comforting, perfect, etc.
Even I wish for a Heaven. But then again, I don't because I'd end up going to Hell simply for saying this lol.
Not in my religion you wouldn't. And some people don't want to, or don't care to believe, but they reach the logical conclusion that god exists.
I believe that when you die, it's kind of like being unconscious or asleep, but you're not dreaming. And in a way, you are aware of it, but really don't. It is very difficult to explain how I believe it is. It is sometimes scary to think about to be honest.
Doesn't scare me.
One of the things that makes believing in Hell and Heaven is the fact that if you disobey even just one law(Rule/Commandment) of God and do not confess to a Priest or some holy official, you will go to Hell when you die; and when you're in Hell, you will burn, scream, cry, choke on smoke in anguish, and experience harsh, unexplainable pain for all eternity... but he loves you!
Also, the bible says that God is the "All Merciful", yet at the same time he will not forgive even your worst Sins. This kind of condrigates what the whole merciful thing is about.
Not in my religion.
Religion is an opinion of belief really. Some believe it. Others don't. It is unproven and never will be.
How can you know that? For all you know someone just cracked the mystery.
The funny part is that many people get offended when people try to explain why they don't believe and express how they feel about the issue. Is it so bad to side against something that has caused pointless wars for thousands of years? Wars over religion have been going on and off ever since the Greeks were around. Possibly before that time. In fact, we're still fighting over religions in a way between Christianity and Muslims in the Middle East. Can't we just drop the bullshit and move on?
Religion does not cause war. Disagreement does. And that's not always religions fault.
People say that Jerusalem is sacred. A man-made place, mind you. Similar to religion. It's all man-made.
God wanted it to be man made. He had it all planned from the start. It's called omnipotence. He also could intervene if he wants. That's not evidence against god.
I'd love to go on with this, but there is truely so many ways that I can explain how I feel about religion and the existance of God, besides the few facts that I can't see him execpt maybe in paintings, the fact that I can't hear him or be controlled by him(Unless if I'm crazy), and that I can't find any real scientific evidence that the universe was created by him. To be honest, I choose the "A mixture of gases created mass and so on which formed the universe and eventually created planets, stars, etc. within." theory.
Where did the gases come from?

You suffer from a major case of Christianity. Christianity is not religion.
 
Level 25
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I didn't bother to read any posts before posting in this thread. Didn't know there were this many pages either @_@

Anyway, there are quite a few things make me believe that God does not exist. And in my opinion, this is a fact. Prove me wrong if you'd like, rather than pointing out that I didn't read the bible (Since even the first paragraph of that story bores me) and include a lot of evidence of his non-existance.

My reasons are:
  • I can't see God. Usually if I can see something, it kind of helps the credibility along the way.
  • Haven't seen many things that are good that came from God. (War, Torturous Consequences, Arguments such as this, the large diversity within religious beliefs, etc.
    [*]Sacrifices for religion ("Prayer Offerings", Crucifixion, etc.
    [*]I don't believe in miracles. No real reason, it just sounds odd.


Thats all the stuff off the top of my head right now... need any more? :\

Christianity isn't a religion.
According to everyone in Texas and my teachers, it is. :p

God wanted it to be man-made? Why? What is the logical purpose of that?

How can you know that? For all you know someone just cracked the mystery.
I seriously doubt that. If someone did, it'd be world-wide and there'd be video, photographical, and audio evidence of it all over the media.
~Craka_J
 
Level 35
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I can't see God. Usually if I can see something, it kind of helps the credibility along the way.
Haven't seen many things that are good that came from God. (War, Torturous Consequences, Arguments such as this, the large diversity within religious beliefs, etc.
Sacrifices for religion ("Prayer Offerings", Crucifixion, etc.
I don't believe in miracles. No real reason, it just sounds odd.


Can you see odorless and colorless gas? Nope...but you clearly see its effects.

Good things that come from God? Peace of mind, hope, moral guidence, salvation, there are all kinds of good things.

Sacrifices for religion are no longer needed. As Christ was the last and permament sacrifice. And it was this sacrifice that gives humanity the chance to be free from sin and be forgiven. And the reason why sacrifice was needed, was because the wages of sin is death.

And miracles exist, I know, because I have experienced some myself.

God wanted it to be man-made? Why? What is the logical purpose of that?

God wants to include us in his works. Such as building things.
 
Level 27
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I can't see God. Usually if I can see something, it kind of helps the credibility along the way.
He hides for a reason.
Haven't seen many things that are good that came from God. (War, Torturous Consequences, Arguments such as this, the large diversity within religious beliefs, etc.

God made evil. If you think that was the wrong thing to do, then realize that God made wrong as well. He made them both, and before he made them, who is to say what's good and bad?
Sacrifices for religion ("Prayer Offerings", Crucifixion, etc.

Not for all religions...
don't believe in miracles. No real reason, it just sounds odd.
Miracles are not all of religion...
need any more?
Yes. But make sure it's not against Christianity, because Christianity is merely one among many.
God wanted it to be man-made? Why? What is the logical purpose of that?
So everyone can decide.
I seriously doubt that. If someone did, it'd be world-wide and there'd be video, photographical, and audio evidence of it all over the media.
He just discovered it right this second, and is about to tell everyone. You can't say we'll never know.
 
Don't kid yourselves.

Christianity will eventually disapear. It's only a matter of how long it takes. It's already begun: the fan club is getting smaller, the church no longer has the influence it did, and people start thinking rationally as more and more of the old beliefs that were thought to be miracles of god are being scrutinied and rationalised. Either something drastic happens that proves it was all real, or it eventually dies out.

Of course it's nothing that's drastic right now, but it's the tip of the iceberg.
The same will happen to all other religions, eventually.

Now you might think this is a bad thing: but you'd be wrong. Though it's not necessarily good either.
We have two possibilities: people eventually lose all a lot of moral convictions (not "the people", I'm talking about those in power) and do something stupid, or a new form of thought emerges, not a religion, but simply morals.

I am 100% sure that in thousands of years, people will look back at these beliefs and will think the same thing about them that we think about old religions, in ancient egypt or grece or whatever.
People will look at what we thought was a supernatural event caused by who knows what or something we thought would happen when we died and say:

"Well that's just silly! It's common knowldge these days that (insert thing here) is caused by (insert explanantion here)."

Okay, we have a third option: Aliens invade and kill us all.
 
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Oh trust me. Christianity will never disappear. The end of time will occur before that happens....(no prophecy intended)

People will never get rid of their faith in something they so strongly believe in.

There will always be a Christian somewhere, sometime, someplace.

As long as the Bible exists...Christianity will exist with it. Where ever Christianity exists...the Bible will exists also. Its a self replicating cycle.
 
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Of course it's nothing that's drastic right now, but it's the tip of the iceberg.
The same will happen to all other religions, eventually.
Except that there are religions that don't contradict science. You know very little of my religion, and from the looks of it, very little of many others as well.
"Well that's just silly! It's common knowldge these days that (insert thing here) is caused by (insert explanantion here)."
What about the beginning of everything? Do you think that we will fully explain that beyond a shadow of a doubt?
Oh trust me. Christianity will never disappear. The end of time will occur before that happens....(no prophecy intended)

People will never get rid of their faith in something they so strongly believe in.
The people of strong faith aren't passing it on to all their children. You need to sustain generations of strong belief.
There will always be a Christian somewhere, sometime, someplace.
True for most everything.
 
Level 40
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Oh trust me. Christianity will never disappear. The end of time will occur before that happens....(no prophecy intended)

People will never get rid of their faith in something they so strongly believe in.

There will always be a Christian somewhere, sometime, someplace.

As long as the Bible exists...Christianity will exist with it. Where ever Christianity exists...the Bible will exists also. Its a self replicating cycle.
Less and less young people are going. The old devotees still go, but they die off one by one.

Seen the 'Halo as a tool of conversion' thread? In the news article, the clergy admits that they're doing it because less and less young people otherwise go to church.

Am I the only one who thinks miracles look a lot like cop-outs?

"Something happened that I can't explain! It MUST be a work of God!"
I prefer the fact that the 1% of the time it does happen they credit prayer, and the 99% it doesn't they conveniently forget about =/
 
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Redeemer59 is right. Pretty much people blame unexplainable events and discoveries on God. The fact that people can rely on this invisible father-figure that has done all of these amazing things such as the fourty days and fourty nights of rain and flash floods (Which I think would drown a lot of plants and pretty much ruin lots of vegetation and create landslides) and the parting of the Red Sea (Which I heard happens every so often, but not as exadurated as in the bible) etc. and how these things never occur when you're alive. In fact, they haven't happened for a very long time... but faith and apparently convincing stories is what keeps the belief I guess for most people.
~Craka_J
 
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