E.O.R. V3B7: Barren Eye

[Moderator]

17:54, 9th Apr 2014
Orcnet: Map approved.

 

[Fokyip]

Map Description

This map uses the original four races but additional races are included Naga, Demon, Satyr, Goblin, Arcadian they have evolved into functional societies to build armies worthy enough to put a fight against the original four or against each other.

Best to play this map against multiple players.

 

[phay_1995]

What about blood elves :-?

 

[Fokyip]

Blood Elves = Arcadian

What about blood elves :-?

I hate naming a race Blood Elves sounds tacky, I called them Arcadian naming them after there magic, Arcane.

 

[DrazharLn]

I hate naming a race Blood Elves sounds tacky, I called them Arcadian naming them after there magic, Arcane.

Good idea, I don't like the default blizz names.

I'll test this momentarily...
Edit I don't really like altered melee that much so I didn't spend any time on this, sorry. You also have a lot of spelling mistakes. For example, in the below screen there are 2 spelling mistakes and one grammar mistake.
I'll give you rep for making the map though, tis not right for a mapmaker to have no rep.

Edit Hmm, "Corrupter of Entity" doesn't make much sense either... Try changing it to "Corrupter of Entities" or something. If you right it as Corrupter of Entity then the only way it makes sense is if Entity is a proper noun.

 

[Fokyip]

Good idea, I don't like the default blizz names.

I'll test this momentarily...
Edit I don't really like altered melee that much so I didn't spend any time on this, sorry. You also have a lot of spelling mistakes. For example, in the below screen there are 2 spelling mistakes and one grammar mistake.
I'll give you rep for making the map though, tis not right for a mapmaker to have no rep.

Edit Hmm, "Corrupter of Entity" doesn't make much sense either... Try changing it to "Corrupter of Entities" or something. If you right it as Corrupter of Entity then the only way it makes sense is if Entity is a proper noun.

Thanks for the feedback I've made the changes. Your the first person who've given advice and I encourage criticism to improve my map. I'm not going to deny it I'm terrible at grammar and I'm trying to fix what I can find. What don't you like about the altered melee?

 

[Fokyip]

Future versions will be protected

I caught Penguines404 uploading my maps on Warcraft 3 Maps - EpicWar.com and claiming them as his/her own as well as removing the credited authors of models triggers and icons. So much for leaving my map as an open source because of one abuser.

 

[VeljkoM]

Protect it with Optimazer.You will also make your map smaller and faster.

 

[Fokyip]

I did I had a separate website where you can download the unprotected version I am saying that option is no longer available.

 

[VeljkoM]

Oh yea I forgot.Any way you can still give unprotected versions but only to does who ask you and promise that they wont claim it as their own.

 

[Fokyip]

Yea true but I lost trust I thought people are BSing when they say thieves would steal your map and relabel it. Plus I intentional hidden things within the map that can still be claimed as mine if it came down to a dispute as to who the map belongs too.

 

[VeljkoM]

It is bad when someone steals maps.

 

[Fokyip]

Well good to know
The latest update 2.5.8
- Fixed up items of the scroll and staff of the races
- Fixed the art missile launch for several naga units
- Change the names of 4 units
- Added a uneven terrain to the starting bases
- Added two control panels at the start instead of one that felt overwhelming
- Fix some abilities hot keys as well as many item hot keys
- Fix tip tops on the phantom and legion
- Swapped the ballista and contraption abilities
- Centaurs now have the abilities to call reinforcement instead of a slave uprising
- Replaced the Gnoll slave with a Razormone slave
- Changed the begining heroes of goblin, night elves and naga
- Changed the altar of outcast to a mercenary camp
- Change all the mercenary camp to a structure of creeps (orge mound, forgotten faceless and gnoll hut)
- Improved the tower ward ability on the architect
- Improved the icons of annihilator and rocketeer

 

[Rui]

This is my review to version 2.5.9 of "Evolution Of Races".
In this map, you control one of twelve races and defeat your opponents. You can team up with another partner or play on your own.

I am sad to announce that the diagnostic on this map is not good.
First, the terrain doesn't seem to have changed much since I last looked at this map. I am pretty sure of that on elevation, even though the ground textures seem to have changed a little.
Either way, the terrain is still dull and quickly gets boring. Like bounty hunter2 mentioned above me, there is a lack of doodads which leaves the landscape totally spiritless.

Creep choice and drops were badly chosen. Usually you don't see an Ogre Magi and an Ogre Warrior camping. There are two Ogre Warriors, or three... well, you get my point.
The drops are the worst part of it though. Still on the same creep camp (Ogre Magi & Warrior), you get a Lv3 permanent item, yet on the other you get a Lv1 tome? How is that logical?

Now, off to strike the very heart of the map: the addition of races.
Like I said in my previous comment, having a lot of races is fun to play. But have you realized how many patches fixing balance issues Blizzard released, just for four races?
My point is, you straightly added eight (or seven?) races into the game and I bet you didn't think for a while that it would be extremely hard (if not impossible) to balance them all.
So yeah, lots of races are fun, in theory, but in-game, things are a lot different.

The Object Editor work quality doesn't seem to have improved either. There is still an overdose of upgrades that don't really do anything besides increasing damage, armor, or hitpoints.
And the fact that shops sell permanent items is OUTRAGEOUS!

Yet another thing I didn't like about the map was the fact that you start with a hero.
Four heroes is the limit? Doesn't sound so good to me.


My rating for this map is 2/5 (Lacking), and its status is Rejected. It's a pity, because you had a lot of time to improve, and I hoping the map would have improved.

 

[Fokyip]

Ok, I had the elevation taken into consideration since your last review so I improved it but you didn't mention any need for doodads. So now I have included that as well.

Seriously ?? a Ogre Magi and a Ogre Warrior camping together is an issue that is not a valid. That is a matter of personal opinion and closed mindness. Now I have fixed the item drop and items purchases since I’ve investigated into it.

Umm, I am just "ONE PERSON" Blizzard is a huge corporate gaming industry. You make it sound like I just slabbing everything together. No if you see actually see there is an indication of tiers and variation between each race.

I didn't balance?? really, where is huge unbalance between each races. I have tested each race several times against computer normal to get them as level possible before releasing them.

If you actually seen the object editor you'll see that it is not a low quality. You make it seem like there is an overdose of increasing damage, armor, or hit points that is not the case in fact there is alot of upgrade to give units additional abilities.

Yes, there is five heroes it is because there is a issue of maximum heroes in the preferences of warcraft editor. I couldn't insert any more into it to prevent five hero bug, so it was either remove my tavern or five heroes.

So essentially you are saying my map compared to is incredible crappy compared to Warcraft IV - Rise of the Races v3.7 and Legions of Warcraft1.07f which I believe are well made maps. But my review and rating on leaflet map compared to those maps seems as though they enjoy my map. People are also requesting when my latest update will be and wanting the open source version of my map.

 

[Nightblade]

Well I played this map and found the

Terrain:-3.5/5 verage,could do with improvement.

Creeps- 2.5/5 Battling ogres all the time..YAWN

Gameplay:-2.5/5 All the races are the same,yawn there is no DIVERSITY.

Overall-Could do with improvement.A LOT of improvemen

 

[MogulKahn]

Good map with lot races.I love 2 play this map in mp but i dont like titans units.Titans sucks man.DELETE THEM !!!!!!!!

 

[Wazzz]

Titan units... boring and repetetive. Races... boring and repetetive. All your map varieties... boring and repetetive.

Notice how boring and repetetive it is of me to mention how boring and repetetive your project has become? That's because boring and repetetive cliches appear to be the centre of your project. It's incredibly hard to explain how you did it, but despite having so many new races, once you've played one, you've played them all.

And HEY, what's that? That previous paragraph had been previously summed up by Nightblade. So there's some support to the statement, and therefore it should be taken into consideration by you when you... well, I would actually reccomend trying a new theme away from all this... boringness.

Now, what else did I notice about your project... well, I found it interesting that when you pick a race, it gives you an incomplete wall of text. This *sometimes* incomplete wall of text displays the obvious formula you've devised to base each race around, limiting your imagination. For example, while it's good to think about early defense, how about one race scraps early defense but in exchange has early offense? Like a sort of rushing race, you know? Just to shake things up a bit (because your project currently remains unshaken, which is not good at all D

Now to say something nice... the building choices of the Centaur, IMO, created an awesome atmosphere when put together that represented that of the Stronghold town in HoMM V. I liked this. That is... probably the only thing I liked, though.

Your attitude towards your own project. Fix it. It's in desparate needs of repairs. Rui gave you that huge f***ing list of things he found wrong with your map to help you, so why would you get so defensive? If you don't agree with something, stay calm and negotiate with him, but do not by any means talk back at him like that, because when it comes to making maps, who knows better than someone who actually played your own creation while keeping a keen eye out for what put the map together? Certainly not you, that's for sure. Sure, you probably have a handful of fans who want updates, but the web is worldwide (worldwide web, geddit?), so a handful of people looks so weak in comparison to, oh, let's say, the ENTIRE HIVEWORKSHOP?

You might get defensive and say that there's nothing wrong with your proect, but seriously, you have several versions of the map in different terrain, yet have no f***ing difference between the skeletal structure of the maps. They're all 8 player, all 2v2v2v2 (lack of versatility... MEGA gh3yz0rz -.-'), and they all have the same sort of structure. You might think adding one different pathway in one version of your map would be enough to make people think 'OMG, this map is competely new! =D', but it isn't. Stop treating your audience like idiots and start to give them some credit, ffs.

~Wazzz out.

 

[Fokyip]

Your message as well as bounty hunter2 is the most useful criticism I take into account during changes. I will see as to how I can go about flipping the map because I take your feedback seriously; it tells me the core of my problems. As for the f**king list from Ruis’ other than him repeating bounty hunter is ridiculous that it doesn’t tell me anything or I’m just not understanding him.

A) Very few upgrades of increase hit points or attacks in the map is generalize for the map altogether I admit the beginning stages of my map is like that but a lot has changed for upgrades. So what does that tell me of what to improve?

B) An orge magi with a orge warrior that is the most silliest one on the list? Because this map is altered melee and what there a written rule as to who can camp with who. I thought in-depth as to changing the creeps instead of only one type of creep that will be in my list.

C) Terrain I’m not 100% sure on how about I can go on that because I added the terrain variation, textures variation, included doodads so is this map that is lacking or was the other two map thrown in the rejection pot because of this one?

D) Balance issues I am just one person and I played against computers and none of them seem too over powering or too weak or he didn’t mention any particular race so it just seems like a claim. So what I’m supposed to do grab a group of friends have them all install Warcraft III an old 2003 game and have them run through race by race for several days writing down the issues.

Your right about the 2vs2vs2vs2 I could make a map for single players, 3vs3 and etc but there is -ally and -unally capabilities to give players flexibility but I guess people don’t want to bother making their own teams.

I don’t appreciate you making accusation of “treating your audience like idiots” I only made a defensive message towards one person not an entire audience.

Thank you, critical speculation of my map I give you rep for that because comments like Nightblade makes me yawn. I will remove the titan I didn’t realize it was an actual problem as for the variation of the armies. What I did was grab the four races and mixed them around and insert mods to each of them any feedback of how I can make them non-repetitive?

 

[Wazzz]

Another thing to note. As you do have a fan basis for your project, why not break away from the Altered Melee theme and try a short campaign featuring your races? It would be a lengthy thing to do (unless you made the campaigns nice and concise while packing in many variations of gameplay), but would possibly help put your project in a different light other than only online gameplay.

As for the boring repetetiveness, I think one key factor is that you have devoted entire races to one type of unit. For example, let's take a look at the Centaurs. Their entire strategy would be based around speed above any other stat, while it might be better to add another race to give it more versatility. Also, you seem to repeat some upgrades a lot, like the upgrade based on that Human upgrade which boosts building armour and defense, or an upgrade that gives a minute boost to a units health.

One other thing I noticed is that when you want to fix it that a unit is 'upgraded' to a more improved form (like the Troll Headhunter to the Berserker), you start off with both of the units appearing in the building. To fix this, set the upgraded version to unavailable via an initial trigger. The upgrade will fix the rest.

Which brings up one imbalance (there's possibly others, but I can't remember them immediately ). The Salamander-Lizard-Thing in one of the races. It costs 3 food and starts out pretty weak. Once completely upgraded, though, it is a f***ing powerhouse. Which only costs 3 food. See the problem? Reducing its stat increments significantly may help, adding an ability to each form or even just the final one (can't remember if you did this or not, soz :/) would allow you to make the stat changes even smaller.

 

[matej]

Interesting map. Original idea, good work.

 

[Fokyip]

Another thing to note. As you do have a fan basis for your project, why not break away from the Altered Melee theme and try a short campaign featuring your races? It would be a lengthy thing to do (unless you made the campaigns nice and concise while packing in many variations of gameplay), but would possibly help put your project in a different light other than only online gameplay.

As for the boring repetetiveness, I think one key factor is that you have devoted entire races to one type of unit. For example, let's take a look at the Centaurs. Their entire strategy would be based around speed above any other stat, while it might be better to add another race to give it more versatility. Also, you seem to repeat some upgrades a lot, like the upgrade based on that Human upgrade which boosts building armour and defense, or an upgrade that gives a minute boost to a units health.

One other thing I noticed is that when you want to fix it that a unit is 'upgraded' to a more improved form (like the Troll Headhunter to the Berserker), you start off with both of the units appearing in the building. To fix this, set the upgraded version to unavailable via an initial trigger. The upgrade will fix the rest.

Which brings up one imbalance (there's possibly others, but I can't remember them immediately ). The Salamander-Lizard-Thing in one of the races. It costs 3 food and starts out pretty weak. Once completely upgraded, though, it is a f***ing powerhouse. Which only costs 3 food. See the problem? Reducing its stat increments significantly may help, adding an ability to each form or even just the final one (can't remember if you did this or not, soz :/) would allow you to make the stat changes even smaller.

Honestly, if I was young again I would make a campaign along with these maps but after realizing the ridiculous time invested into these maps. I don't think I have the energy to make a different type of map unless I if I had a partner to work with then maybe.

I never really thought about upgrades that boost temporary, I look into how that would work.

Centaurs are more focus on speed because all the units stats for speed is quite high and they have an upgrade and abilities that increase there speed but I guess people really can't see it.

I will do major rework on barren eye, change to diverse creeps and focus on various units. I will fix bugs if I come across any I can't really finalize this map unless if I had a different set of eye. Thanks again for the critical evaluation you really bring some light my map.

 

[Fokyip]

I did not meant for this map to be at the top of the list if anyone is wonder. I just updated and thought it would stay in its position because the name was the same. The map was updated because I thought victory and defeat issue was fix, now it is fixed for good.

 

[ryanfg]

i hate playing with computers or online cuz i kinda suck and so i just edit the map and play by my self cuz i cant host, i suck on online and computers are BORING cuz you cant talk to anybody so when i am online i just play LOAPS or RPGs
EDIT: BTW I promise i will NEVER EVER Steal from anyone!!!!!!!! (i also try to make my on games like this but end up failing because i cant Make maps for DUDU)

 

[crazy_ashes]

I hate naming a race Blood Elves sounds tacky, I called them Arcadian naming them after there magic, Arcane.

in world of warcraft they are called blood elves, i guess thts why he used the name, makes sene

 

[MogulKahn]

This is good map,but you need a lot of work on it!

 

[Fokyip]

i hate playing with computers or online cuz i kinda suck and so i just edit the map and play by my self cuz i cant host, i suck on online and computers are BORING cuz you cant talk to anybody so when i am online i just play LOAPS or RPGs
EDIT: BTW I promise i will NEVER EVER Steal from anyone!!!!!!!! (i also try to make my on games like this but end up failing because i cant Make maps for DUDU)

Sorry, I have release it once open source someone relabelled my map. I was angry and protected. Then Warcraft IV - Rise of the Races v3.7 inspired to have me have it open source again then again someone else rips my map. When I leak my map people abuse them but lucky for you there is an open source template on my website you can create a map from that and make your edits.

in world of warcraft they are called blood elves, i guess thts why he used the name, makes sene

Umm that's a very old comment they are called the Sindorei a more proper term.

This is good map,but you need a lot of work on it!

Can you expand on what you mean by alot of work.

The procress between 2.7-2.8 is focusing on changes to the object editor and the alpha stages of faceless and nerubian races which are going to be very very different.
Anyone who is curious what my status is I am going to release 2.7.2 sometime this month with a new map.

 

[Raiden]

[Pros] The idea is great! When it comes to adding more WarCraft races into an altered melee map, then it surely wins.
[Pros] I still haven’t encountered any bugs in the latest version…
[Netrual] Terraining is done quite decently although I dislike the fact that starting positions are all on high buff and it only looks nice when you use custom camera view (which is a neat idea, btw) but when I want to zoom in a take a closer look at map the buildings I've built look like they float in mid-air... or well, partly. xD Also on top of that I’ve noticed that you have 3 different terrains for 3 different maps… but I’ve also noticed all those terrains repeat, it looks as if you’ve only changed tileset (barrens, northrend, ashenvele etc.)
[Cons] Doodads for buildings?...Bad idea since they don’t have animations, and that includes death animations as well. :S
[Cons] Some unit ideas are silly, like Forsook(Forsaken) having a Gargoyle called “Gorgon” with increased scaling value and Satyr using colored owls… when I saw that I was like “lolwut?” XD
[Cons] I did test all races but it seems to me that with 13 races playable on ONE map you will experiance balancing issues...

Keep updating, pal.

 

[sonofjay]

This amazing altered melee map is so underrated, maybe that is why he lost motivation to updated it. I mean come on guys, 13 races and its only under 4mb? Its a satisfying game for me though it really have some issues.

 

[MogulKahn]

This amazing altered melee map is so underrated, maybe that is why he lost motivation to updated it. I mean come on guys, 13 races and its only under 4mb? Its a satisfying game for me though it really have some issues.

Honestly he just spammed units...

 

[Fokyip]

This amazing altered melee map is so underrated, maybe that is why he lost motivation to updated it. I mean come on guys, 13 races and its only under 4mb? Its a satisfying game for me though it really have some issues.

Thank you sonofjay for defending my map. I have mainly lost motivation because I have no support I'm doing the testing, map making, all other stuff alone except the modelling. I have tried to search for partnership but no response. I appreciate the fans who have been contacting me and inquiring about E.O.R. because that has been the main motivation.

Honestly he just spammed units...

Mogulkahn you do have a valid point that why with this version 3 I have changed up some of the races. With Troll race units can be purchased. Shurnab spawns units instead of building in a tradition fashion, Centaur and Tuskarr have auto income systems. I'm slowly trying to shape each race differently.

 

[Wazzz]

you need to learn how to get the disabled icons working with the command buttons

it's amazing that you have made so many races, but there is a lot of balance issues. i mean, with that many races, you'd expect at least some balance issues (part of the fun), but the faceless ones race gets everything for free (except for one building, which is slightly confusing), making it viable for me to just spam buildings

i swear i spammed a lot of the town halls for that race just to get more drones and population since there were no ramifications for doing so. it exploits the glitch in the system for producing units so that i ended up with almost 150 populations worth of units while it says that 100 food is the maximum you can have

i could also get all the heroes at tier 1 for free, too, which is very potent

(haven't looked at the other races yet, this one had a LOT of balance issues on its own )

 

[sonofjay]

Its great to see a fresh update. Time to play my goblins again.

 

[Bloody Wolf]

looks promising will test it out

 

[Ardenaso]

It's actually nice for me to be honest. I just found gold problems with centaur when I once played it last year.

 

[Nightmare2077]

Looks very nice. I've encountered some minor issues, but only cosmetic. 16 race in altered melee is no joke, so well done!

 

[Orcnet]

Map approved.

 

[firevlad711]

Pretty please can you give me a tutorial or explain to me how I could do a map with several races like this one.Thanks you.

 

[Fokyip]

lol if you have years to invest I started this map in 2009 to make it to this point. There has been alot of struggle and learning while making this map.

Here is a link to my ice cube map the first comment is my explanation of how to get yourself started.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...v2-7-4-ice-cube-99244/?prev=status=r&u=Fokyip

 

[Jake6]

-Keep it up dude, honestly your altered melee maps are good.
-need some balancing and terrain fixing.
-I found something that annoyed me, The Draenei unit "Charmer" when you use "Healing Charm" after the units are healed it increased my food rate on how much units I can trained.. depending on how many units are healed.

 

[Doomfan64]

Ah man, I remember these maps. I used to play them a long time ago, but they weren't perfect. I thought they were abandoned so I didn't bother mentioning my criticism. I'll go play the newest version right now and see what's new.

EDIT: So right off the bat I've noticed an odd bug. It seems to have cropped up in some other maps I've downloaded. It's that, if you put the map in a folder other than the main folder, it won't appear to be selected. Not sure what the cause of this is.

So getting a little further I note that the game is permanently locked in FFA. Why? I get that the map is meant for FFA, but if people want to play FFA, they'll set it up in FFA. This is going to make it really hard for me to try out the new races without getting stomped into the dirt because I have no idea what I'm doing. I see the ally/unally system is there but that makes it somewhat convoluted to set up a team and allows for backstabbing. Which can be fun, but not everyone wants that. I also have to doubt that AI can even use it.

So I try the first new race: Centaurs. The list of powerful units and defense powers at the start is a very good idea. It should also say what kind of role the race is meant for.

Massive bug found with centaurs. Training the Piercer unit sometimes causes it to spawn a Drudge. Also, the icons for Drudge and Piercer have the green effect on them. Having all the heroes except for one cost lots of resources also causes the choice of which hero to pick early-game to be way too easy. All of them should be an equal cost like in the original game. The huntering-gathering effect is too slow and can't get increased very much by upgrades, causing them to be gimped for lots of the game.

However, I'm willing to accept that I'm just playing Centaur completely wrong. If you have the time, I saved a replay of my game with the Centaurs. I had to cut it out after my first battle with the Orc player due to some graphical glitches on my end (Hopefully you'll see them). So I could send you the replay and you could tell me what I'm doing wrong.

EDIT: I just noticed there was a menu in the F9 screen with some races, but part of it seems to be cut out for some reason.

EDIT 2: I just read through this whole thread, and I see you say you're having trouble with trying to find people to help you. Do you want me to do some amateur terraining?

 

[Fokyip]

I would love to see your review of your game play. Yes I would love it if you can help clean up my terrian could I get you email address to send you the open source version.

 

[cesclame]

Your map is really great, i like what you've done with the factions but when i wanted to play the troll, i got a problem, their town hall didn't work.

 

[Ardenaso]

Gonna try this update.

 

[Paillan]

Map lacks screenshots in description, something which is required by rules. Back to awaiting update until screenshots are added.

 

[deepstrasz]

Always check/recheck the Map Submission Rules! (Map Submission Rules)

These will help make a better description:

Map description threads

Description Guide - Melee Maps
Description Guide - Maps
Map Description - Templates
Melee Map Description Generator v1.3
Map Description Generator [1.2]
Describing Your Melee Map
BB Codes | HIVE

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A detailed changelog in the first post would be helpful to reviewers and notify fans about the newest implementations to your map.

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Awaiting Update.