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Reforged Dont make mods, boycott Reforged [EULA Update]

Discussion in 'Patch & Reforged Discussion' started by Nudl9, Jan 29, 2020.

  1. Tommi Gustafsson

    Tommi Gustafsson

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    One question: Let's say that our association does not accept the new EULA, since we do not want to give any IPs to Blizzard. But if somebody else takes one of our maps and uploads it to Bnet 2.0, what happens? How does Blizzard know that it was uploaded there without our consent?
     
  2. Blarto

    Blarto

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    This was answered already in this thread. TLDR if you have a legit copyrighted content and someone steals (or "steals" *wink* *wink*) it and puts it in a map, you should be able to submit a claim to Blizzard just like any big company like Nintendo can. If Blizzard ignores you, then its lawyer time.
     
  3. Tommi Gustafsson

    Tommi Gustafsson

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    And how does Blizzard know that it is copyrighted? We do not have Reforged (they forced me to refund it for not accepting the EULA), so we cannot even know what is going on in bnet 2.0.
     
  4. disruptive_

    disruptive_

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    Copyright exists not because Blizzards says it exists or not. If you say you have a copyrighted work and Blizzard says you don't, then a court will determine the outcome. You still must protect your interests, as if you already know you have copyrights implicated. For example, Blizzard assumes they already have all your IP, but in this case i already said that this is not entirely true and they are just anticipating themselves. So why are you so timid?

    In your case you can make a claim to Blizzard AND (if you know who is uploading the map with copyrighted material) you can sue the injust uploader by copyright infringenment (unauthorized distribution principally). You can even threaten to sue Blizzard as they are publicly displaying your material without authorization. Saying that you are not binded to the EULA but somehow you made a custom wc3 map is dubious though.
     
  5. Brambleclaw

    Brambleclaw

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    This is actually a terrible argument. "if worst case scenario in fantasy where everything is how i say it is and people just believe X and Y then therefore my proposition is true".



    (1) -> its not that legal treatment of files is a mess, you are just trying to ratioanlize it from logic rather than subscribing to the massive legal fiction that underlies it.

    A game contains a number of copyrightable works from Art and Music etc. The programming of the game or file is copyrightable as a "literary work". So a games assets will always follow under a "classical" head of copyrightable material. In the copyright world, games and programs do not present any new categories of material.



    @Tommi the old EULA already said it owned your file just not the copyrightabel materials behind it neccessarily. So Blizzard is free to host your map as they see fit, just that is where their rights end. They cannot make a new game based on that map if that game itself is infringing on your copyright.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
  6. Blarto

    Blarto

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    Argument about what exactly? From my point of view this EULA doesn't affect me (and probably no one else who is a member of this website), so I'm writing my opinions here for other people's benefit, not to argue or boss you around. Calling my opinions terrible arguments will not benefit you in any way, nor it will convince me that I am in danger from Blizzard's nonsensical EULA.

    I'm not here to argue or debate. If you think I'm arguing (i.e trying to convince you to change your mind and do something with regards to wc3:re), then good luck to you. Just don't hurt yourself.

    If they haven't done due diligence and/or research, then they will know its copyrighted when you submit a C&D or DMCA to them in their mail box (or email). It has to be properly formatted (legally speaking) or else they will ignore it. After that, its a matter of dispute resolution (aka lawyers, courts, and lots of money), or they can just comply and remove all traces of the IP from their business.

    Consider it this way: You made a nice painting and have proof you did it (somewhat of a de-facto copyright). Then someone took a picture of it and made a nice sculpture of it, putting it in their business building's lobby, and using it in their promotional materials etc. You, the original author of the painting, might have a case there, or might not have a case there. It depends on the court battle & settlements.
     
  7. disruptive_

    disruptive_

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    Please explain what act falls upon a computer file you download on the internet.
    Also explain what act falls upon the CD of a program you buy on a store.
    Finally explain what act can fall upon a copyright right, like the right to reproduce the code of a computer program.

    You will, most likely, answer only the last two.
     
  8. Xecutor_ShamanX

    Xecutor_ShamanX

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    They may own my maps(I haven't uploaded it yet), but they cannot own my ideas. That is my INTELLECTUAL property.
     
  9. Blarto

    Blarto

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    For the sake of clarifying so people don't get wrong impressions. Your IP is only "yours", if you can prove it in a court of law (or can liquidate any "thieves" mafia style). You can have one thousand EULAS wrapped around it, but ultimately it all comes down to "what's it worth" for you to defend your IP (and what country you are trying to defend it at).
     
  10. Hazop

    Hazop

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    Honestly I think the Anti-Reforged shit storm was soooo over blown, EULA was slightly reworded and now everyone's up in arms and calling a quit to mod making. Personally I doubt my maps would ever even reach industry standards and even if they did, I wouldn't care, I'd still make new maps. And even then, its not like I can't go to court over it. I ain't giving up mapping or 'boycotting' an entire game from my childhood for the sake of 'morality' or other nonsense. Though that's just me, of course there are some valid points as to do so, but I feel like they're minor issues that have been overblown for the sake of being overblown.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  11. Cespie

    Cespie

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    I am aware of the precedence in US court regarding game mechanics and concepts, so you're right in calling me out on that.
    That being said, "where there's a will, there's a way". I'm sure that the right team of lawyers could find some angle to push this.
     
  12. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    Now this video actually gives some very good ideas about dealing with the new EULA: (watch from 6:20 mins)
     
  13. Hazop

    Hazop

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    Mhm, make it racist and offensive gotcha
     
  14. Amigoltu

    Amigoltu

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    And blizzard owns it, according to their own EULA. Thus, let people create all kinds of memes. Blizz can have a field day trying to take down all of those.

    Btw, have a sense of humour :p
     
  15. Hazop

    Hazop

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    As if Blizzard would allow that, if they 'own' they can yeet it and/or ban the map creator.

    So basically, GL hf
     
  16. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

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    Blizzard: Glad you could purchase fan.
    Fan: Watch your tone with me, Blizzard. You may have Warcraft III rights but I am still your superior as a map creator.
    Blizzard: As if I could forget. Listen fan, there's something about custom games you should know. Oh no. It's too late. These maps have all been memed. They may look fine now but it's only a matter of time before they get yeeted.
    Fan: What?
    Blizzard: This entire custom game movement must be banned.
    Fan: How can you even consider that? There's got to be another way!
    Blizzad: Dam it fan, as Activision I order you to delete these maps.
    Fan: You are not Blizzard Entertainment anymore and nor would I obey that command even if you were.
    Blizzard: Then I must consider this an act of illegality.
    Fan: Illegality? Have you lost your mind Blizzard?
    Blizzard: Have I? Fan, as your intellectual property owner, I relieve you of your creations and restrict your access to the server.
    Game Developer: Blizzard, you can't just...
    Blizzad: It is done. Those of you who have the will to ban, follow me. The rest of you, get out of my sight.
    Fan: You've just crossed a terrible threshold, Blizzard.
    Blizzad: Game Dev?
    Game Developer: Sorry Blizzard but I can't watch you do this.

    TL DL: Blizzard: as if I could forget (maps being memes).

    Also

     
  17. Hazop

    Hazop

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    fucking lol'ed so hard at that
     
  18. Drake53

    Drake53

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    I was thinking about ways to circumvent the EULA, since I refuse to waive my moral rights, and just thought of a very obvious solution: just put a license file in the map lol.

    Can a lawyer answer, would this actually work and would my license have precedence over Blizzard's EULA? I'm guessing for it to take effect, Blizzard would first have to be notified of the presence of the license in the map, so that if they reject the terms, they can ban the map from their platform.

    Also,
    READ CAREFULLY. By reading this post you agree, on behalf of your employer, to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all NON-NEGOTIATED agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, shrinkwrap, clickwrap, browsewrap, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable use policies ("BOGUS AGREEMENTS") that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any BOGUS AGREEMENTS on behalf of your employer.
     
  19. Blarto

    Blarto

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    Not a lawyer. But by choosing to upload a map to bnet you "agree" to the EULA before Blizzard "reads" and "agrees" to your "agreement". Also I'm pretty sure any judge would throw this out on its ass, as no one at Blizzard actually signed anything or checked any checkboxes.

    The easiest way to protect yourself is to open-source your project under GPL (strict GPL, not LGPL or derivatives), that way you got the FSF backing you if Blizzard tries to do anything funny. If Blizzard tries to appropriate GPL code without adhering to GPL license, they are breaching FSF guidelines and that organisation might back you in your lawsuit (or it might not, but its better than nothing). I'm pretty sure you cannot waive GPL rights as GPL is a license that is given to the "public" as a whole, by the FSF (a 3rd party), on YOUR behalf (you don't technically fully own your code/art at that point, the public does).

    Edit: there is a legal argument here on validity of GPL-ing code written in proprietary language (i.e jass). I'm not aware of any legal cases involving that edge case. In this case, my page 2 advice about not using LUA might be counter-productive (you can GPL lua easily, not sure about jass).

    Edit: 2, the flipside of GPL is you cannot "protect" your own map anymore, as you'll be breaching your own license terms. So yeah. You'll have to contain all "un-optimized" source code for your map in the map.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
  20. Drake53

    Drake53

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    I don't think anyone at Blizzard needs to check any checkboxes really, example:
    As you can see, the licensee (Blizzard) accepts the license simply by redistributing the work (by hosting the map on their platform).

    Either way, with the current EULA, I can't see myself "choosing to upload a map to bnet". If I were to distribute it, it would be on github, epicwar, maybe here on hive, but not bnet.

    EDIT:
    I'm pretty sure a link to the source code is also allowed, so you can still optimize your map.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020