Bring Back Director's Cut

[Murlocologist]

Despite moderator ratings are gone, there is no reason why featured files lists (DC) would be taken away.

Especially the map sections.

 

[deepstrasz]

I just don't want one moderator/reviewer to be able to choose a resource for Director's Cut without the approval of most if not all respective mods/revs for that section (we're not just implying maps here).
Any resource that is worthy of that should be classified as such. There's no need to only have a few number (per month or not).

 

[Chaosy]

To me it seems like you're suggesting something like a highlight of sorts? back in 2012~ Kael had a monthly poll where we voted for maps in development, and those maps would be featured in the monthly news batch (which was also done by Kael and does not exist anymore, actually bring the news batch back as well!)

What you're suggesting seems quite similar.

 

[Rui]

So every few months those in charge would debate on which new 5-10 resources to be put on DC lists.

I believe 5 to be too much, but a resource every month, sure. That would also help to democratize things a little bit, as there were both resources unworthy of DC and others worthy of DC, but lacking that status by the decision of some mod.

EDIT: This would actually have been a much better idea than those excellence awards.

I just don't want one moderator/reviewer to be able to choose a resource for Director's Cut without the approval of most if not all respective mods/revs for that section (we're not just implying maps here).

The opposite isn't healthy either, of course. I believe director's cut should still be a place for only the really best resources.

ack in 2012~ Kael had a monthly poll where we voted for maps in development, and those maps would be featured in the monthly news batch (which was also done by Kael and does not exist anymore, actually bring the news batch back as well!)

Spoiler

Actually that's something Kael “took” from me with as much (lack of) authorization as the Staff History.

 

[Chaosy]

I was probably not around at the time you did it so I wouldn't know.

 

[KILLCIDE]

I just don't want one moderator/reviewer to be able to choose a resource for Director's Cut

It's never been like that. Director's Cut is chosen when a moderator / reviewer feels a resource deserves this rating, and brings it up to Staff / other reviewers who are in that domain. They all talk amongst themselves, and if all goes well, the resource will get the rating.

 

[deepstrasz]

I believe 5 to be too much, but a resource every month, sure.

If that also means every resource that deserves a DC would be nominated the next months until one day they get the DC, then yes. Although, why not have x number of DCs/moth if there are resources worthy of that?

It's never been like that.

Well, that's good then.

 

[Murlocologist]

Any resource that is worthy of that should be classified as such. There's no need to only have a few number (per month or not).

I see DC as a section with purpose going towards more to giving HQ material to people who are crafting projects than hall of fame aka community award for resource authors.

 

[deepstrasz]

I see DC as a section with purpose going towards more to giving HQ material to people who are crafting projects than hall of fame aka community award for resource authors.

Only a limited number of people to have access to them? VIPs? No thanks. How do you even decide whom to give them to!?
DC is supposed to be the section with the best (quality) resources the Hive has got.

 

[Murlocologist]

Only a limited number of people to have access to them? VIPs? No thanks. How do you even decide whom to give them to!?
DC is supposed to be the section with the best (quality) resources the Hive has got.

Excuse me but what are you talking about? You either hardly misunderstood my post or didn't read it at all.
Everyone would have access to DC material, that is the point of whole thing, to give HQ resources listings and I really don't know how to simplify it further.

 

[deepstrasz]

Everyone would have access to DC material, that is the point of whole thing, to give HQ resources listings and I really don't know how to simplify it further.

I see. I misunderstood.

 

[Murlocologist]

With Blizz update, for the sake of wc3 modding, bringing back DC to maps is something that should be done without any doubts.

 

[deepstrasz]

With Blizz update, for the sake of wc3 modding, bringing back DC to maps is something that should be done without any doubts.

Not really related but DCs are more accurate than searching by rating.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Yeah, I'm for this.

 

[Deleted member 219079]

Bring back mod ratings, atm we don't have a rating system.

Bringing back DC is nice as well.

 

[Murlocologist]

Not really related but DCs are more accurate than searching by rating.

Yes and therefore I don't see why it got removed at all.

 

[IcemanBo]

I don't say Art Sections implies less effort, or alike, but the JASS section for example also definitly has quality systems.
And we don't have any rating there, not a modeator- nor a user- rating. What we do is relying heavily on comments. When the users want to read what others think about it, they read the reviews and the other feedback comments, and they will finaly get a better impression of the real resource quality, than if they had just trusted ratings.

Plus, Ralle implemented a place for all quality feedback/reviews on top of all comments, which means critique can be structured and bundled for a quicker lookup.

The moderator action (approval/rejection), plus the possiblity to look at given reviews/feedback is actually enough imo for ther user to get to know something about the quality, if he is really interested in.

Reviews/feedback is for make statements about the real quality.
Ratings is to see how much the folks, the entire user base, likes your product.

I think if we're honest and cut it down, the only loss we really have with removed ratings is that we can not list/find resources so easy anymore that are highly rated by staff only. We imagine, that this will be the peek of all resources, and so we filter it when we wanna see the bests of the best. Just for prestige.

 

[Rheiko]

Reviews/feedback is for make statements about the real quality.
Ratings is to see how much the folks, the entire user base, likes your product.

Well, I don't think DCs are only about how much people like a product. I never did. I've always thought DCs are products with best quality which means the first thing that comes to mind when people (or at least me) read a DC is HQ. Reviews and feedbacks are something that describe the quality it got or I would say, a more detailed information regarding the product why it deserves such rating.

 

[Murlocologist]

@IcemanBo There are thousands of resources all around which vary in quality incredibly. And what is necessary is to filter the best from the rest. User ratings don't do that. They are unreliable, especially nowadays. One of reasons why mod ratings were removed was ''consistency''. How is that not even bigger issue with user ratings? People gave 3x times more ratings few years ago than they do now and sorted by highest rated, you'll rarely find new resources on top.

 

[Wareditor]

I am for the return of DC. It has been a very good way to show the best content that Hive could produce and also a great motivation for content creators.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I think it would be important, @Murlocologist, to have a specific plan in mind as a suggestion for how to re-implement the DC rating, as well.

 

[Murlocologist]

Well, you can have a subcategory, place where substandard resources were before removal or you can have quick link where highest rated and most downloaded are. Some modding websites use stand alone section where they put all types of featured files.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Ok, that's where they would go; but how would they be (re-)implemented? How would they be made/determined/decided/judged?

 

[Murlocologist]

Ok, that's where they would go; but how would they be (re-)implemented? How would they be made/determined/decided/judged?

By moderators/reviewers consensus. The same way they were determined on old Hive.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Alright then. So Moderators(/Reviewers) would, by virtue of their position, award a ranking up to & including 'DC' (separate from 5/5, I assume?) which, when enough of them had agreed so, would be made so.

 

[deepstrasz]

Reimplementing wouldn't be too hard now would it? I mean, it's basically a bunch o' guys deciding which is to be DC and which not.
Users could ask/notify moderators about resources they think should go there and then the commission would decide whether to stamp the DC on said resources or not.

 

[IcemanBo]

I can't really see new useful input. We want see the best of the best of the best of the best.
For most stuff such prestige is not needed, and would do better in some spotlight from time to time.

 

[Murlocologist]

I can't really see new useful input. We want see the best of the best of the best of the best.
For most stuff such prestige is not needed, and would do better in some spotlight from time to time.

Directors cut or featured files is not something Hive made up. It is a common practice in most mod hosting websites to have such listings.

 

[Nestharus]

Director's Cut never showed the best of the best. Nor did moderator ratings. There was no set criteria to judge by. It was all skewed and a "cool" factor was also a part of it. You could make the most boring thing of the utmost quality and it would maybe only get 2-3 stars from a moderator.

Moderators, sometimes, weren't even qualified to dole out ratings. I had plenty of experiences where I had to tell the moderators when to approve my stuff. Then again, I'm a professional software engineer and many of them aren't : /.

I don't think bringing back DC will allow users to filter resources by quality. I don't think moderator ratings will do that either. The only way they will is if moderators are required to judge the quality and remove the bias.

Did you guys know that one of the resources that is approved doesn't even work? I've mentioned it five or six times to the author that one of the libraries that they are using is bugged and they haven't cared. Why is it approved then? Not only that, but I bet you it'd earn a DC, even when there are cases where it's going to fail. Not only that, but it doesn't even use the best algorithms. It definitely isn't the best of quality. Regardless, that "cool" factor is going to weigh in, resulting in a lot of bias that would otherwise earn 4.3 stars for its actual quality and a temporary 0 stars until it was fixed.

 

[Murlocologist]

Director's Cut never showed the best of the best. Nor did moderator ratings. There was no set criteria to judge by. It was all skewed and a "cool" factor was also a part of it. You could make the most boring thing of the utmost quality and it would maybe only get 2-3 stars from a moderator.

Moderators, sometimes, weren't even qualified to dole out ratings. I had plenty of experiences where I had to tell the moderators when to approve my stuff. Then again, I'm a professional software engineer and many of them aren't : /.

I don't think bringing back DC will allow users to filter resources by quality. I don't think moderator ratings will do that either. The only way they will is if moderators are required to judge the quality and remove the bias.

Did you guys know that one of the resources that is approved doesn't even work? I've mentioned it five or six times to the author that one of the libraries that they are using is bugged and they haven't cared. Why is it approved then? Not only that, but I bet you it'd earn a DC, even when there are cases where it's going to fail. Not only that, but it doesn't even use the best algorithms. It definitely isn't the best of quality. Regardless, that "cool" factor is going to weigh in, resulting in a lot of bias that would otherwise earn 4.3 stars for its actual quality and a temporary 0 stars until it was fixed.

There surely is a lot of bias and whoknowswhatnot when determining what gets the DC. But DC by its very name implies bias included, right? User ratings we have atm are, after all, just a joke. They wouldn't be if you'd get 50> ratings per resource. And, well, resources today can hardly get more than 10 ratings where most of them are rated 5/5.

DC was at least more relevant than 'highest rated' filter we have here is. Website that approves pretty much anything uploaded or in other words, site with criteria bar set quite low, needs a featured files list to either spotlight or encourage those who made resources with different quality. And I think this matters mostly for map and model resources as these are 'the carriers' of modding.

I don't quite remember the files in DC listings, but there surely was wrong choices. But that is a problem of community. I doubt anyone entered discussions on how some file should be reconsidered as DC quality cos there was better choices.

 

[KILLCIDE]

But that is a problem of community.

The community had zero influence on what recieved DC. As I mentioned earlier in the thread,

Director's Cut is chosen when a moderator / reviewer feels a resource deserves this rating, and brings it up to Staff / other reviewers who are in that domain. They all talk amongst themselves, and if all goes well, the resource will get the rating.

 

[Murlocologist]

The community had zero influence on what recieved DC. As I mentioned earlier in the thread,

​

I know community had zero influence in process. But they would have the ultimate influence in aftermath of terrible DC chosen file, if such would be made. Which reminded me of that HT's joke with random marine model DC.