Beyond the Throne: Tides of Darkness

[MogulKahn]

Looks interesting !

 

[Kingz]

Ooh didn't see the time limit...

Anyway should we post the skill ideas here for your aproval first or are we to suprise you?

 

[MogulKahn]

The sea giant model is ok, it's definitely an under-utilized model.

As is stands stock warcraft 3 was not designed with naval in mind, hence the years I've put into my mod. Heroes spells and general strategies are based on ground and air units, they treat any water but shallow water as scenery. I'm looking for something that doesn't "own" the seas, but gives the player an edge in naval battles; as you know ships are much more powerful than a single hero.

Also if you'd like to see what the current hero models are for the racial and neutral heroes I've attached a screenshot.

I didnt saw this models in-game !
Only races are humans and orcs?

 

[Kam]

I didnt saw this models in-game !
Only races are humans and orcs?

This is for a neutral hero, so really any race is ok - if you do a human or orc hero it needs to be significantly different from the mainstream alliance or horde heroes.


I'd love to see WIP screens, but if you want it to be a surprise then by all means dazzle me. =)

By the way, since this is for the neutral hero shop, more than one entry may end up being used - so don't be discouraged from trying your best.

 

[supertoinkz]

A bit offtopic:

Why are there no Troll, Orc, Dwarf, and Gnome Heroes?

 

[Kam]

Well, I'm not sure to be honest - they never really crossed my mind.

They could be neutral heroes I suppose.

As it stands the racial makeup for humans is: 2 humans, 1 elven and for orcs it's 1 goblin, 1 ogre, and 1 half demon

 

[MogulKahn]

Maybe instead of two humans one dwarf?And I think its bad to have half daemon in Orcs.Maybe Troll or Orc.Only DK is half demon, but you have a lot of orcs !

 

[Kam]

I suppose. I'll see what I can do about that.

Anyone have any progress on the hero contest?

 

[Kingz]

I will start making the spells tomorrow, shouldn't take too long but the spells won't be top notch creative.

EDIT:

I'm going to ask that you have the hero done before July 20th at 24:00 Central US time.

Please tell me what GMT is Central US time.
And change the 24:00 to 23:59.

 

[Kingz]

Sorry for the double post.

Hero Post:

Atribute: Strength
Hero name: Shellstride
Hero class: Makura Trilobyte

Prime purpose: support/tank

It isn't really something "wow" original but i don't have time to work on him anyway.
If you dislike something i can rework it.

Hope you enjoy testing him.
Also i didn't have time to make any last checkups so Unit filters are probably bugged, (means the spells could affect some unit's it isn't suposed to).

Have fun testing him, the ultimate is a bit hard to land correctly but it's a defensive ultimate anyway.

No custom models/icons have been used in the making.
Didn't have time to import GroupUtils, the size of the map is big since it has a lot of Systems in it, but those are all fine systems, used for best performance.

 

[Kam]

I reserve judging until supertoinkz gets his in.

If you want to revise yours at all Kingz you can have today as well.

 

[supertoinkz]

Gaaah! I can't work further more >_>. I think my ideas are too complicated for me to trigger <_<.

 

[Kam]

Well ok then.

Review:

Water Gust - The concept is good although it really needs some nicer effects. I would suggest http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/watercrumble-160135/?prev=search=water&d=list&r=20 for the target model.

Enchanted Shell - This is perfect for dealing with naval units, which have more health than land units and remains balanced as land units can stun/polymorph/grasp him.

Polymorphisys Skin - This is a good pair for Enchanted Shell as the hero will need to use his shield fairly often.

Trilobyte Infestation - An interesting take on Carrion Swarm, I like it. I was happy to see it also affected mechanical units (naval).

I would suggest http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models-530/tidebaron-106883/?prev=search=water&r=20&d=list&page=2 for the hero model.

As for the coding my skills there are limited so I am assuming that they are MUI.

Overall I give it a 4/5 and as the other contestant has dropped out you are the winner. You should get your rep soon.



As for my map, I know I said it would be released in 5 weeks and that was about 8 weeks ago now - I'm working to balance as much as possible so it won't be much longer.

 

[Kingz]

It is your hero now, you can change anything.

Also if you wish me to redo some spells i can do that.(if you aren't satisfied with the current ones)

 

[Kam]

It would seem appropriate to me for Trilobyte Infestation to cause residual damage for a short time after they've returned to the caster.

 

[Kam]

No this is not dead, I've been balancing and hunting the causes of various fatal errors for the past month. It will come out soon.

 

[Kam]

Last update made, unless there are major problems.

Currently I am having no issues.

 

[Trilby]

Nice. I'll download them and play em when I get some time. Btw, 4 and 2 aren't working D:
EDIT: Ok, they aren't showing up in the folder :\

 

[Kam]

They should be fine, I just played them.

 

[Trilby]

Nope, they aren't showing up for me. And I have the latest patch too :/

 

[Kam]

I can't seem to replicate the problem and I haven't had any other reports of the same error, I currently have this map uploaded on 5 different sites too.

I have a theory though, and I've attached a protected version of the 2 player map with one change. Let me know it if fixes your issue.

Edit: removed

 

[Trilby]

Uh, sorry false alarm. Turns out the name was too long D:

 

[Kam]

That was another option, so you renamed it to have a longer name?

Also, what do you think so far?

 

[Trilby]

That was another option, so you renamed it to have a longer name?

Also, what do you think so far?

Nope. It was already too long so I shortened it.
I haven't played it much right now.

 

[Kam]

Post final B is out. All maps are updated. Enjoy.

 

[MrStormyZ]

Post final B is out. All maps are updated. Enjoy.

Great

 

[Kam]

If you enjoy the maps please vote for approval on the ones that have yet to receive it.

 

[MrStormyZ]

If you enjoy the maps please vote for approval on the ones that have yet to receive it.

as far as I remember I've done it, I'm sure it's the description which they aren't supporting.
I see you've added a screenshot to each but I'm sure you could add some more and spoiler them if you will.
and one last thing I'd like to suggest would be the hotkeys You've made them with the 4x3 format it's all good concerning spells but normal basic commands ?
such as "A" for attack "M" for Move,most players as far as I know in all maps use the "A" for attack move and "M" for surround, this is something most players will find difficulty with, Would be good if you could change them back to normal or make an option to toggle them from normal to 4x3.


EDIT : I forgot to mention the tooltip for the Bear found in the Mercenary camp on Severed Isles is missing.

 

[Kam]

I'll note the missing description.

As for the hotkeys, the issue is that I can't change them back as the default keys would conflict with other keys in the grid. Originally I did not change them, but found out upon playing that it's either an all or nothing idea.

I have found it intuitive and I've been able to improve my micro quite a lot as I can keep my left hand in the same position the entire game.

Please keep the feedback coming though, for how many downloads I get on this there is very little response.

 

[Kam]

Would anyone be opposed to returning to riflemen and berserkers?

 

[MrStormyZ]

Would anyone be opposed to returning to riflemen and berserkers?

don't think so actually can help the Humans be a bit stronger at start if the Riflemen would be stronger than berserkers as the original game

I've played this with a few of my mates the thing is they're too used to the Real wc3 they're not liking the very fast building units and stuff.

 

[Kam]

Riflemen and a combination unit I called the Spear Thrower are back. They both got HP buffs and the T1 units have longer training times now.

Catapult is the Demolisher again and has burning oil, no change to damage or HP. Ballista will be replaced.

I am also considering removing the Paladin, Magi, and Swordsman replacements and making those units the starting units. I would then restrict their abilities based on the Church and Altar of Blood so they aren't full strength until T3. What do you think of that?

Polymorph vortex is being replaced with this:
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php/145335-Warp-Field

 

[wowcraft]

Kam, i played a version of warcraft 2 the other day which i found that was pretty cool.. after 2 kills footman become captains and 5 kills they become royal captains.. its a tier version for each unit.. maybe this would be good to have archers turn to rangers (such as if 1 archers gets 3 kills he becomes a ranger) instead of giving the ranger/beserker/paladin/ogremage update to those units... makes more room for upgrades and the game turns at any point..

 

[Kam]

I've thought about that before.

It becomes far too one sided if a player can't keep their kills up. For instance if you lose a few battle now you can still come back if you have the resources. In that scenario if you lose a few battles your enemy has gained a resource that you probably won't be able to: extra damage/unit abilities. I actually incorporated that idea in the Dominion Kodo, but it's a localized bonus that can be removed.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[MrStormyZ]

Riflemen and a combination unit I called the Spear Thrower are back. They both got HP buffs and the T1 units have longer training times now.

The Humans surely do seem weaker than the Orcs Having the Riflemen might just take that away in the starting game.

Catapult is the Demolisher again and has burning oil, no change to damage or HP. Ballista will be replaced.

I see so these will be working like the Air Bradges thing then, for Ballista I can't really think of anything

I am also considering removing the Paladin, Magi, and Swordsman replacements and making those units the starting units. I would then restrict their abilities based on the Church and Altar of Blood so they aren't full strength until T3. What do you think of that?

I think that's be a great idea, this will make the upgrading more necessary

Polymorph vortex is being replaced with this:
http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php/145335-Warp-Field

I don't quite remember which unit used this spell, btw Kam do you have Tech Tree somewhere over the Game That surely will be useful for players.

 

[Kam]

I do not but I will work on one. The Resurrection Wagon had that ability, I found it to be a little over powered.

 

[Kam]

I've been doing some refining. I removed the Zeppelin and Flying Machine in favor of making the Batrider and Warbird faster and have a larger line of sight - they can also be trained at tier 2 now.

I had a similar thought about combining the Resurrection Wagon/Purifier and Durnholde Warrior/Dominion Kodo. What would you think of that?

 

[Miss_Foxy]

Wow. That's getting better and better, good luck with it!

 

[MrStormyZ]

I've been doing some refining. I removed the Zeppelin and Flying Machine in favor of making the Batrider and Warbird faster and have a larger line of sight - they can also be trained at tier 2 now.

I had a similar thought about combining the Resurrection Wagon/Purifier and Durnholde Warrior/Dominion Kodo. What would you think of that?

The purifier and Wagon seem to be combine-able but the Warrior and Kodo are a bit of 2 different things.

after playing this a bit more I personally don't feel that the Naval Army is "Necessary", well as far as I've known this project was basically to bring back the naval combats and at the same time I wouldn't say having them more powerful would be a good idea, how about decreasing the Load Capacity of the Flying Transports or maybe removing it ?
somewhat of a naval drop harassment would be great and will be much necessary as it would be the only way, but that's just my thought ^^

 

[Kam]

Wow. That's getting better and better, good luck with it!

Thank you.

The purifier and Wagon seem to be combine-able but the Warrior and Kodo are a bit of 2 different things.

after playing this a bit more I personally don't feel that the Naval Army is "Necessary", well as far as I've known this project was basically to bring back the naval combats and at the same time I wouldn't say having them more powerful would be a good idea, how about decreasing the Load Capacity of the Flying Transports or maybe removing it ?
somewhat of a naval drop harassment would be great and will be much necessary as it would be the only way, but that's just my thought ^^

I'll probably end up making the naval units somewhat more powerful - specifically some ability for the Juggernaut and Battleship. As far as the War Barge and Dirigible they are quite useful medium air units for early harass. I could remove the cargo capacity though and that would leave naval transports and the Mage/Death Knight spells.

 

[MiniMage]

Argh! Frigging rocket tower turtle units! I want one of those. :O
It's so much goblin in that unit that I am overjoyed.

Or is this "Your map only" dudes? Because some people are very protective of such models.

 

[Kam]

It's not my model and I'm actually not sure if it's hosted anywhere anymore. I'll look around.

Also I'm still working on the project.

 

[Kam]

What would you say to replacing the Swordsman with the Blood Elf Lieutenant model and replacing Defend with Spell Steal?

What would you say to replacing the Grunt with the Raider model and simply increasing movement speed?

 

[Gausslander]

I would say nay and yay

 

[Kam]

Any particular reasons?

Would you like to see the new orc unit have anything special?

 

[Rui]

Reopening on request.

 

[Kam]

You can expect a new race and major update in January.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/ouvo17/FinalC.jpg

 

[Trilby]

Just wondering, is this new race going to be like the seed with unique playstyle and whatnot or is it gonna be standard gameplay style?

 

[Kam]

Lumber is gathered in the Night Elf fashion. Gold it mined by the mine itself after you summon it.

The primary difference is that instead of a food limit your units have a timer. The two ways to increase the timer are by killing enemy units or building a farm like structure.

Units are also summoned, not trained, as buildings have mana. I've created an ultra-aggressive race. If you'd be interested in play-testing it with me in a few days let me know.

 

[rcshaggy]

For some reason I'm getting 404 Not Found for that link, but its ok.
Oh and Kam what is that Turtle unit that MiniMage is talking about?
By the way I really want to say I'm liking your melee maps with all your custom stuff in it.