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[Altered Melee] Looking for some Feedback

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Merry, Nov 3, 2014.

  1. Merry

    Merry

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    Been working on an altered melee map for years but I feel like its finally close to being "finished". Figured I'd present it for some feedback/general ideas/new perspectives.

    Adds three new races without replacing any of the original races. This is a multiplayer friendly map. I'm aware altered melee maps have been done to death, but few have gone through as much iteration, brain storming, polish, and testing as this. YEARS of work have gone into this map.
    The Races are:
    Blood Elves
    Naga
    Forsaken

    Quick notes:
    Because it is a very very old project, Ive lost track of where a few of my resources came from. Such resources are marked as "unknown". If you know who the author was please let me know so I can give credit where due.
    Also, as Im still testing, not all GUI/MUI spells are credited because they may not make the final cut. They will be before a release.

    Hope ya'll enjoy.

    ---Update--- 7.5
    Some Tooltip fixes/corrections/clarifications
    Fixed the "yellow world" bug
    Added a new upgrade to Creepers allowing them to attack and poison air units
    General bugs addressed
    Reworked Runestones for the Blood Elves;They're now a permanent, one-time summon. Health has been increased accordingly and it now benefits from Enchanted Masonry
    Thalassian Patrols has been updated to reflect the change to Runestones, it now grants an increased radius for Suppression Aura instead of a lowered cooldown
    File sized reduced
    Attack for War Eagles has been slowed but its damage increased

    ---Update--- 7.6
    Some Tooltip fixes
    General bugs addressed
    Blood Elf Priests have become Dawn Priests, and have gained the Dawn Fire ability but lost Mass Dispel
    Mirror Image (Magistrix) has had its cooldown increased by 5 seconds
    Parasite (Sirens) has been nerfed
    Enrage (Betrayer) has had its mana cost increased
    Tidal Aura has had its level 1 and 2 attack rate reductions .. reduced
    Mur'gul Hunters have gained the Hollow Spears upgrade
    Myrmidons have had their damage reduced
    Fixed bug preventing Hyrdas from attacking ground units
    Addressed more Shear issues
    Mana Foci (Arcane Guardians) has been reworked to dispel magic around the caster
    Sea Drake damage received a buff, but its food cost has been increased by 1
    Snap Dragons damage has been reduced
    Primalists now cost 2 food, their health and damage has been reduced accordingly
    Draenei Vindicator's GotN has had its cooldown increased by 1 second, again
    Replaced Scepter of Dominance from Coilfang Coffer with Scroll of Regen
    Scroll of Magic has been nerfed
    Reworked numerous hotkeys to be more logical/appropriate
    All Racial Naga units (Sirens, Mymidons, Archaens, Royal Guards, Oracles and Sea Witches) have gained the Gift of the Old Gods upgrade
    Life regen of numerous Naga units has been reduced to standard levels
    Hydras have had their health regen increased slightly
    Lowered Proc percentage of Orb of Water
    Hasten is now a tier 2 upgrade
    Fel Attack (Blood Warders) now slows enemies by an additional 5%
    Calcified Husks is now a tier 2 upgrade
    Cost of various upgrades have been rebalanced
    Couatls have had their damage reduced

    ---Update--- 7.7
    Some Tooltip fixes
    General bugs addressed
    Fixed Azshara's Will icon error
    Added a new effect for negative auras to help distinguish them from positive
    Suppression Aura (Runestones) now has a unique spell effect on targets
    Blessing of Azshara now has a unique spell effect on targets
    Tidal Aura has a new spell effect
    Addressed even more Shear issues
    Blood Warders now move slightly slower
    Enchant (Farstrider) level 2 and 3 have had its boundaries reduced
    Optimized a few spells to require less cpu
    Outrunners have a new look

    ---Update--- 7.8
    General bugs addressed
    Tooltip updates and corrections
    New Icons and Spell effects have been added to various spells and upgrades
    Shadow Priests have gained the Shadow Word: Pain ability but lost Mind Flay
    Dawn Priests' Dawn Fire spell now damages all units within its boundaries
    Shadowflame (Dark Caller) has had its mana cost increased and its periodic damage spread across 14 seconds (up from 10)
    Dark Blessing (Dark Caller) has had its cooldown increased by 1
    Bone Armor (Lightslayer) has been nerfed slighty
    Death Grip (Lightslayer) has had its cooldown increased and now requires a target
    Death Guards now have less health
    The Forsaken have had the cost of the Apothecarium and Laboratory reduced
    The Forsaken have had the Flesh Works structure added to its tech tree
    Felsh Golems now must be constructed at a Flesh Works
    Flesh Golems now have slightly more health, deal more damage, and cost 5 food
    Slaughter Barges have had their health increased
    Spell Surge (Magistrix) now reduces the armor of the target by 3 instead of dealing damage

    ---Update--- 7.9
    General bugs addressed
    Tooltip updates and corrections
    Hot Key fixes
    New Icons and Spell effects have been added to various spells and upgrades
    Shadowmend (Shadow Priest) has been buffed slightly and renamed Shadow Word: Mend
    Blood Warders Fel Attack has been renamed Fel Strike and now lowers maximum mana of the target and deals damage over time
    The Forsaken have had the cost of the Apothecarium and Laboratory reduced, again
    Rage (Flesh Golem) now deals increasing damage based on percentage of health
    Flesh Golems now deal less base damage
    Spell Surge (Magistrix) had had its mana cost reduced
    Leech (Siren) has had it mana cost reduced and its duration increased
    Bone Crushers have lost the Crushing Leap ability but have gained Blood Curse
    Bone Crushers have had Overpower reworked to occasionally deal damage and daze an attacker
    Fel Armor's (Warlock) chance to summon a Void Spawn now increases with skill level
    Warlocks have gained the Nether Portal ability but lost Hellfire
    Sacred Shield (Vindicator) has been retooled to absorb damage for the target instead of restoring health
    Blood Knights now correctly receive Arcane Acuity when in Divine Storm
    Mana Tap (Blood Mage) no longer drains mana from magic immune targets, has had its cooldown reduced and deals less damage
    Shadow Nova (Outcast) now deals less damage and has a reduced knockback
    Typhoon (Oracle) now has a reduced knockback and new spell effect
    Brute Force (Bone Crusher) now has a reduced knockback
    Orb of Slow's proc chance has been lowered
    Scroll of Magic (Blood Elves) has been replaced with Mana Gems
    Gravity Lapse (Blood Mage) has had its damage reduced considerably, but its daze duration has been increased
    Siren have had their resource costs increased
    Razorclaws now deal less damage
    Hunters have gained the Hunter's Mark upgrade, but lost Hollow Spears
    Water Nova, Shadow Nova, Shear, Death Grip, Dark Mending, Deep Chill, and Soul Leech now correctly ignore magic immune targets
    Fixed EVEN MORE Shear issues
    Shear no longer affects Resistant units (Enchanted Armor, Resistant Skin, etc)
    Icarai's Sun Spear now correctly gives a functioning Vengeance Aura
    Vengeance Aura's bonus damage has been reduced, but its chance to occur has been increased
    Anguish Aura's mana degeneration has been lowered to more reasonable levels
    Couatls have had their damage reduced
    Arcane Guardians have had their damage increased slightly
    Blessing of Wisdom (Blood Knight) now restores less mana, but over a quicker period
    Research time for Slippery Scales has been reduced
    Shadowflame's debuff can, once again, no longer be dispelled
    Archaen's have gained the Summon Royal Guard ability but lost Monsoon
    Enrage (Betrayer) has had its cooldown reduced by 5 seconds


    Thanks for the feedback/ideas/inspiration from Spellbound, Wa666r, Sunreaver, Andoster, captain_haddock and Gun_haver.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  2. MogulKahn

    MogulKahn

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    3 races and it is not even 4MB? Sadly I have no wc3 on my comp, so I can't test it...
     
  3. Spellbound

    Spellbound

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    Gave the map a try and I have to say I'm quite impressed with the level of polish. While the Blood Elves and Forsaken tend to favour a certain formula for their barracks units, the passives they have do create some diversity (teleporting archers ftw).

    You can tell there's a lot of work that went into this. There's a visual and thematic consistency as well as some imaginative spells. The only drawback to this map is that there aren't enough creep camps to farm early game.

    Otherwise, good job!
     
  4. Merry

    Merry

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    Thanks for the feedback! I completely agree with the barracks "formularity" but when I was actually breaking down the other races "barracks" most times their first two units were fairly "simple". The "third" unit tended to be a siege weapon, but I felt like the Forsaken and BE siege units needed to come from their "workshops" (how can you have an apothecarium without plague wagons?). Any ideas on how to diversify would be great.

    As for the creeps, I noted the smaller amount myself but then struggled to find nooks to stick them in. Ill brain storm some more on that.
     
  5. Spellbound

    Spellbound

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    I've seen plenty of nooks where you could put creeps - for instance, I think there's a gnoll hut to the north in it's own little alcove? You could put creeps there. Some additional gold mines for expansions would be welcome as well. Right now it's a bit hard to grow your army. I know there's one gold mine on the map that's usually unoccupied, but something a little closer would be better imo.

    Also, something else to note: the western bases have 3 entrances each whereas the eastern bases have 2. I know the map is from the undead campaign in RoC, but you should still balance things out. Either give the 3-entrance bases a advantage of some sort, or remove one entrance. 2 are difficult enough to cover imo.
     
  6. Merry

    Merry

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    ---Update--- 7.1

    Added an additional goldmine
    Terrain Balancing
    More creep camps
    New Blood Knight spell : Divine Storm
    Fixed Sea Drake bug
    Fixed Reliquary bug
    Improved Defile, Shadowflame, and Circle of Healing scripting
    Cleared up some ability leaks (triggers)
    New Forsaken unit "Creeper", Deathguard moved to Apothecarium
    Slight balance tweaks for Stalkers, Mur'guls, Blood Knight, Sirens, Myrmidons, Hyrdras and Arcane Guardians
    Some retooled/worded tooltips to make them easier to understand.
    Forsaken building prices adjusted
    Reduced file size (High Elf skins/models cut from Human Alliance)


    Thanks for the feedback from Spellbound.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  7. Merry

    Merry

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    ---Update--- 7.2

    Some Tooltip fixes
    Tech tree bugs addressed
    General bug addressed
    Some more slight terrain tweaks
    Barbed Arrows for Blood Elf Archers and War Eagle Riders has been replaced with the new Arcane Arrows ability
    Primalists gained the new ability Stormstrike but lost Earthbind Ward
    BE Blood Mage had Nether Vapor retooled and renamed to Mana Tap
    Fixed a graphical and damaging bug for Gravity Lapse
    Slight re-balancing of Archaens' abilities
    Creepers received a general buff
    Myrmidons have had their max health reduced
    Naga Sea Witch now costs the correct amount of lumber
    Naga tier halls have the correct resource cost
    Stalkers had their resource cost slightly reduced
    Arcane Guardians received extra armor
    Mana Tide Ward has had its spell effect altered for easier recognition
    Mana Tide Ward now generates 4 mana per second, reduced from 5.
    Sea Drakes received a slight buff
    Ballistas gained the Rapid Fire ability, lost Impaling Bolts. and received a slight buff
    Plague Wagons' Forsaken Plague damage has been increased slightly
    Draenei Vindicator's GotN has had its cooldown increased by 1 second

    Thanks for the Feedback from Gun_haver.
     
  8. Merry

    Merry

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    ---Update--- 7.3

    Some Tooltip fixes/corrections/clarifications
    Balanced resource costs of various upgrades
    General bugs addressed
    Deathguard ability Putrid Blades has been replaced by Execute, and a corresponding upgrade (Sudden Death)for the new ability was added
    Primalists gained the new ability Revealing Mists but lost the Stonescale Ward ability
    Will of the Forsaken has had its duration before resurrection decreased to 1 second
    Slight re-balancing of Oracle's abilities
    Flesh Golems have gained the Rage ability, dealing extra damage below 50% health
    Arcane Guardians have received a minor buff
    Bonecrusher's bugged Arcane Resistance spell has been replaced by Overpower
    BE Archers and Swordsmen have been renamed Outrunners and Sunblades respectively
    Blood Elf casters have receive a new racial : Arcane Acuity, rewarding 50 bonus mana during the day
    Arcane Frenzy (Magistrix) has had its damage increase buffed to 33% and has had its health loss reduced down to 2 hit points per second
    Drones have gained the Fetid Flesh ability, allowing them to implode and deal minor area damage
    Corrosive Acid (Apothecary) has had its mana cost reduced
    Blessings of Azshara now has a larger range and increases targets health pools instead of life regen
    Shadowmend has been buffed to 5 health per second, but had its duration lowered slightly
    Mana Tide Ward has had its cooldown increased to 2 minutes
    Slaughter Barges have lost the Barge Bomb ability and gained the Plague Bomb ability, which can be upgraded via the Apothecarium's Improved Plague upgrade
    Dragon Turtles have had their damage range leveled slightly
    Blood Knights now deal less damage
    Blood Elf Priests have gained the Amplify Magic ability but lost Holy Fire
    Mass Dispel for BE Priests is now the tier 2 ability
    Fel Armor's (Warlock) Void Spawns have had their health reduced by 50
    Sunblades' Sun Blessed ability now reduces piercing and magic attacks down to 75%
    Flesh Golems' health regeneration has been lowered
    Circle of Healing (Blood Knight) has received a general nerf
    New racial items have made it to the various Racial shops
    Two new items that reward the Vengeance and Onslaught Auras have been added to balance out random creep drops
    BE Dragonhawk Riders have been moved to the Elven Arrows upgrade path from Elven Blades which has resulted in altered costs for both upgrades
    Fixed Mur'gul Hunter bug that was preventing Hunter Senses from correctly detecting burrowed units
    Shadowflame (Dark Caller) debuff is now dispellable


    Thanks for the feedback/ideas/inspiration from Wa666r, captain_haddock and Gun_haver.
     
  9. yogaprad

    yogaprad

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    there are no farm buildings on forsaken? o_O
     
  10. Merry

    Merry

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    Spires fit the role of food building, much like ziggurats for the Scourge.
     
  11. Merry

    Merry

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    ---Update--- 7.4

    More Tooltip fixes/corrections/clarifications
    Fixed Execute(Deathguard) bug, it can now no longer be used on structures
    Balanced resource costs of various upgrades
    Replaced Call to Arms for the Blood Elves with Runestone
    Added 2 new upgrades to the Blood Elf techtree: Grace of the Sun and Thalassian Patrols
    Reworked Improved Masonry for Blood Elves to increase regen of buildings instead of health, Renamed Enchanted Masonry
    Even more general bugs addressed
    Plague Wyrms food cost has been increased to 2, and damage buffed accordingly
    Laboratories have had their cost increased
    Vengeance Aura has received a slight nerf
    Magistrixs' damage lowered
    Deep Chill(Oracle) damage has been increased
    Metamorphosis (Betrayer) has been altered to increase spell synthesis
    Betrayer gained the Enrage ability, lost Eye Blast
    Archaen gained the Royal Guards ability, lost Monsoon
    Spires can now summon defensive spirits
    Fixed Shear(Betrayer) bug preventing buff from expiring
    Razorclaws gained the new Dismantling Strikes upgrade
    Primalists had spell list bug corrected
    Arcane Frenzy (Magistrix) has had its damage increase buffed to 35%, its visual/icon updated and renamed Spell Surge
    Even more new racial items have made it to the various Racial shops
    Blood Elven armor and weapon upgrades have received new names
    Bug with the credit quests has been addressed

    Thanks for the feedback/ideas/inspiration from Spellbound, Wa666r, Andoster, captain_haddock and Gun_haver.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2015
  12. Merry

    Merry

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    ---Update--- 7.5

    Some Tooltip fixes/corrections/clarifications
    Fixed the "yellow world" bug
    Added a new upgrade to Creepers allowing them to attack and poison air units
    General bugs addressed
    Reworked Runestones for the Blood Elves;They're now a permanent, one-time summon. Health has been increased accordingly and it now benefits from Enchanted Masonry
    Thalassian Patrols has been updated to reflect the change to Runestones, it now grants an increased radius for Suppression Aura instead of a lowered cooldown
    File sized reduced
    Attack for War Eagles has been slowed but its damage increased

    Thanks for the feedback/ideas/inspiration from Andoster, captain_haddock and Gun_haver.
     
  13. Merry

    Merry

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    ---Update--- 7.6

    Some Tooltip fixes
    General bugs addressed
    Blood Elf Priests have become Dawn Priests, and have gained the Dawn Fire ability but lost Mass Dispel
    Mirror Image (Magistrix) has had its cooldown increased by 5 seconds
    Parasite (Sirens) has been nerfed
    Enrage (Betrayer) has had its mana cost increased
    Tidal Aura has had its level 1 and 2 attack rate reductions .. reduced
    Mur'gul Hunters have gained the Hollow Spears upgrade
    Myrmidons have had their damage reduced
    Fixed bug preventing Hyrdas from attacking ground units
    Addressed more Shear issues
    Mana Foci (Arcane Guardians) has been reworked to dispel magic around the caster
    Sea Drake damage received a buff, but its food cost has been increased by 1
    Snap Dragons damage has been reduced
    Primalists now cost 2 food, their health and damage has been reduced accordingly
    Draenei Vindicator's GotN has had its cooldown increased by 1 second, again
    Replaced Scepter of Dominance from Coilfang Coffer with Scroll of Regen
    Scroll of Magic has been nerfed
    Reworked numerous hotkeys to be more logical/appropriate
    All Racial Naga units (Sirens, Mymidons, Archaens, Royal Guards, Oracles and Sea Witches) have gained the Gift of the Old Gods upgrade
    Life regen of numerous Naga units has been reduced to standard levels
    Hydras have had their health regen increased slightly
    Lowered Proc percentage of Orb of Water
    Hasten is now a tier 2 upgrade
    Fel Attack (Blood Warders) now slows enemies by an additional 5%
    Calcified Husks is now a tier 2 upgrade
    Cost of various upgrades have been rebalanced
    Couatls have had their damage reduced

    Thanks for the feedback/ideas from Andoster, captain_haddock and Gun_haver.
     
  14. MogulKahn

    MogulKahn

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    Any plans for additional race/s?
     
  15. Merry

    Merry

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    Not really enough room if I want to keep it under 4mb, and thus multi-player plausible. Truthfully I'd love to get give the Draenei a whirl, but there just aren't enough quality, unique or aesthetically similar models to do a real polish job. I did make sure to throw the Vindicator into the tavern though; my homage to the space goats.

    I had the Burning Legion once too, but it felt weird reducing them down to essentially all the other races. The Burning Legion shouldn't be vulnerable to a ghoul rush. And they totally were. Its hard to make iconic units like Infernals balanced. They're either OP and keep with the flavor of the original, or they feel like a washed out phony that is getting crushed by a dreadlord's free, non-food using, infernal.

    Then there's also the creative capacity to actually create 20 more unique units that have differentiated play styles and roles. Add in 4 more heroes with 16 new abilities that actually do something exclusively different and I'm painfully out of ideas. I'm still not 100% happy on my current race diversity (#spell-breakers&dragonhawks), so the idea of throwing more onto the heap is not a pleasant one.

    TLDR, doubtful.
     
  16. Daffa

    Daffa

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    The multiplayer is 8 MB limit after 1.24 patch.
     
  17. MogulKahn

    MogulKahn

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    My thoughts exactly !
     
  18. Merry

    Merry

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    Heavens.
     
  19. MogulKahn

    MogulKahn

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    Then you can add even more races, not only 1 more... Hehe
     
  20. Merry

    Merry

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    I still have to come up with creative ideas for unique abilities and roles for an entire race, which requires quite a large amount of brainstorming.
    Also, having now perused the available race options, not many building sets are that cohesive or polished. And my poor Draenei only have 4-5 units (including heroes) available. So as of now I'm working on diversifying the look of my current races (skins/new models/etc).
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015