Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

A gloomy day #brexit

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Pharaoh_, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,131
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    2
    Resources:
    3
    They want to attach a lot of strict EU deals such as free movement and other nonsense. That said this is all hot air at the moment because actual negotiation and deals will only start once the exit produce is started. The UK will only start the exit procedure when the next PM chosen within the Conservative party.

    That said the EU are currently whining like little children because their house of cards is starting to shake. Pretty soon they will make running such referendums illegal inside an EU member state since it is not the sort of dictatorship... I mean democracy they want. The EU now does not want you to have a choice to leave.
     
  2. A Void

    A Void

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,482
    Resources:
    10
    Models:
    2
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    7
    Resources:
    10
    Good. Maybe in the future we will have United States of Europe. They should have never allowed England to leave.
     
  3. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,131
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    2
    Resources:
    3
    Except it is not united. Is the EU a member of NATO? Does the president of the EU go for meetings in G8? Does the average kid even know who the president of the EU is?

    It would not be a problem if they actually took control over Europe and ran it like the USA. Instead they pretend every country still has its sovereignty while actually they do not. They pretend to be democratic but instead are closer to a dictatorship. They just take money and make ridiculous laws. Ask 99% of people in Europe what the EU government is talking about and they will respond that they do not know. The EU is not transparent, the EU is not democratic and the EU certainly is not giving people equal representation.

    To put it in perspective for people from the USA, the BREXIT vote would be like wanting to leave the USA because the central government wants to make gun ownership illegal at a national level without running a referendum. One can argue if the decision is good or bad but ultimately the people get annoyed and even angry. If you think people between states in the USA have different cultures and opinions then you have seen nothing compared with Europe.
     
  4. Mattnj

    Mattnj

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    288
    Resources:
    6
    Maps:
    6
    Resources:
    6
    So I guess we will have to wait and see what comes out of the talks and agreements between the UK and the EU concerning the UK financial market and such.
     
  5. TheLordOfChaos201

    TheLordOfChaos201

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,739
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    stopping foreigners into the country will of course stop terrorist attacks.

    heck if I had it my way I would ban the Muslim religion because they are obviously the problem
     
  6. Xonok

    Xonok

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    3,039
    Resources:
    8
    Spells:
    3
    Tutorials:
    5
    Resources:
    8
  7. Keiji

    Keiji

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,698
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    My goodness, I don't honestly know what I said that offended you so much.

    I don't. And I would urge you to not presume too much upon others in a debate, presuming what the other person is saying
    besides the actual words he's speaking is often what leads to unnecessary complications during a debate. People are generally
    prideful, and easily offended when they feel that you are "putting words in their mouth" or "misrepresenting their argument."

    And this is what I feel that you are doing here, I never said that I think, and I quote:

    And this is completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. In that particular scenario I do not
    have the data or information required to make a solidified opinion. The way you phrase it make it sound
    like I wouldn't think it's okay, but in order to properly have an opinion about it, I would have to research
    it more.

    This is not true, Norway, my country, is a very good example of that. In Norway there are people of many
    different ethnic origins living side-by-side, and no matter where you're from you are free to practice your
    own culture around you, as long as parts of that culture doesn't directly oppose the laws of the country.
    There are mosques for Muslims, there are churches for Christians and there are temples for hindus and
    Buddhists, and many other examples of multiculturalism. And since we were talking about the Roman
    empire, let me remind you that this empire was not ruled by a monarch for the longest time, and the
    Roman empire was one of the largest and most successful multicultural empires this world has ever
    seen. All this is completely beside the point, however, at it would seem you have successfully baited
    me into starting this discussion with you.

    You took my argument, which was that I think the "reasoning" for Brexit, the way I've heard it from
    most people I've talked to, is bad. (Reasoning being that they wanted out of EU because they feared
    immigrants would come to their country and steal their jobs/culture) And you misrepresented it by
    mockery into some sort of ignorant slander toward people who are respectfully,
    even self-righteously, defending their own culture. So, let me elaborate on what I meant:

    The very argument "They come to our country and steal our jobs" is defeated by itself, it's contradictory.
    Not a single person can "come" to the country uninvited and furthermore thus "steal" someone's job unless
    the government actually secures this opportunity for them. Now I am not entirely aware of how the process
    works in detail in Britain, but if it is something similar to how it works in Norway, then I can say this:

    They are invited to the country by the government, and they are given visas to work by the government.
    If anyone is to be blamed for "foreigners stealing your jobs" it is the government, not the poor people who
    come from a depraved and sometimes war-ravaged country seeking fortune and happiness.
    Because why wouldn't they? Don't they deserve happiness? They deserve it
    far more than me or you, frankly, coming from their background, seeing what they have
    seen. I am despised by people who sit in their homes wishing they had a bigger TV, but
    they can't afford one because they are currently unemployed, but don't otherwise suffer
    in any meaningful ways. And then they blame the "fucking immigrants" for having stolen
    their jobs when these very same "fucking immigrants" would consider it a blessing to be
    in the same position that they are currently in themselves.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  8. A Void

    A Void

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,482
    Resources:
    10
    Models:
    2
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    7
    Resources:
    10
    Good, you will never have your way. The same could be said for crusades that swept Europe in 11 - 15th centuries, killing, destroying, robbing and pressuring that what was "against the Church".

    Not every innocent Muslim is a religious zealot, the group behind these attacks is an extremist one.

    TheLordOfChaos201, you are definitely a republican.
     
  9. Keiji

    Keiji

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    3,698
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    My dear friend, this is a product of general ignorance.

    If you look it up, you'll find that terrorism and Islam has
    nearly exactly nothing to do with each-other. It is true that
    terrorists often USE Islam as an excuse for what they do,
    the same way crusaders used Christianity as an "excuse"
    to butcher entire villages during the dark ages.

    I would say "if it was up to me all religion should be removed"
    but then people would find other excuses to butcher each-other.
    Religion in and of itself is no longer an actual weapon, and if
    some few find a sense of purpose in their life because of their
    religion, then I say religion is a good thing.

    This, however, is not the direction we want this thread to be moving
    in. If you want to continue talking about Islam and terrorism, TLoC,
    then please use the new "conversation" function with the people you'd
    like to continue the discussion with.
     
  10. TheLordOfChaos201

    TheLordOfChaos201

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,739
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    ok very well I understand what your intentions are now. you do not want flaming of religions.

    however, I'm simply stating the facts. the terrorist attack is not coming from inside but from the immigrations and influence from out side. the influence of their religion and from hatred generated by our willingness to invite it in.

    we need at this time to reject all that, shut our boarders, and think about our selves first. we have so Many problems besides this terrorist crisis, let us remove the plank from our eyes before dealing with the speck in the EUs(biblical reference)
     
  11. oger-lord

    oger-lord

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    156
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    It is not irrelevant. Often lefties find it normal that an african tribe or an asian country have a closed nation or society.
    No one is calling them racist because they dont want multiculturalism.
    But when they talk about europe everyone is a bigot who states that europe belongs to the europeans.

    Islam is followed by 2.4% of the population, making it the largest non-Christian religion.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Norway
    Norway an extremly homogenious nation.
    And for example this is a reason why all people are benefiting from the oil money: You have the necessary solidarity.

    You dont know how it feels to live in a country where the chancellor suddenly declares (because she changed her mind) that there are no borders and everybody can come in.
    That you have to pay for all the people who are coming is the minor issue. No one is controlled at the border. (As a reminder the terrorists who killed 130 people in France came via the balkan route)
    On some days 10.000 migrants crossed the border, that is the size of a small town. And you cant do anything, you can only watch.
    That scared the shit out of me.
     
  12. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,131
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    2
    Resources:
    3
    Just to interject, a lot of terrorism is being done by Muslim converts who do not even fully understand the religion. Terrorist movements like ISIL do not actually care much about Islam, but rather about recruitment and causing terror. Many of their recruits have criminal records and were radicalized in prison (perfect warriors for their kind of terror).

    The UK is a tolerant country. Islam is not a problem, but rather a lack of integration and punishment. It is a fact that Muslims and blacks make up most of the prison population in this country despite being a tiny fraction of the entire population. It is not that law enforcement is discriminating, but rather that profile of person has a statistically much higher chance to be a criminal under UK law. This has nothing to do with the EU, especially currently and now with "leave" having won likely never will.

    Everyone had different reasons for voting stay or leave. As I already said, a lot of them were nonsense or wrong reasons. However the fact still remains that the EU is not that good an organization as one would like. This can be seen in their North Korean style response to the BREXIT referendum, insulting the politicians here in the UK, making threats to the UK, planning to stop democracy by preventing member countries from ever legally being able to run such a referendum in future and blaming everyone but themselves.

    Most of the benefits the EU claims credit for bringing to the UK were not directly a result of them. They could have been formed without the EU ever existing on a national level between countries. The only reason they were not is because there was no point when the EU existed. Ultimately now it will come down to that if the UK is blocked from the common market, it is an EU decision and not that they cannot negotiate with the countries they want to trade with. If UK nationals are deported from Spain and have visa free travel revoked that is an EU decision and not a result of the UK not wanting to negotiate with Spain.

    The problem is entirely with the implementation of the EU. It would be one thing if all countries surrendered their sovereignty to become a new country "Europe" ruled by the EU with a president and each state having its own government. In fact this is pretty much how the USA operates. The problem is that they instead pretend that each of the member states has sovereignty and yet they have control. In G8, for example, the EU has full control over 4 out of the 8 "leaders" as well as their own president at the panel. With that logic the USA should be able to send the governor of California to the panel as he basically has as much power as Angela Merkel. It also wastes a ton of money since there are two complete levels of administration and none of the efficiency that could be gained by having a big government such as combined military etc. Let us not forget the massive differences in culture between the various countries of Europe, something the USA does not really have to deal with (it exists, but is nowhere near as big). A lot of people throughout Europe have grown sick of this lie and lack of representation, and UK BREXIT results show this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  13. I'd say these days the world is getting worse in all aspects of life.. I mean really, What's going on to these's people's brain?
     
  14. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,131
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    2
    Resources:
    3
    Corruption, greed, typical stuff which brings down countries. The EU was not democratic enough for the role in government it was trying to play.