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A gloomy day #brexit

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Pharaoh_, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Vengeancekael

    Vengeancekael

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    How would a Brexit eliminate the free movement of labour anyway? If the UK now has to (or in 2 years after its official departure) negotiate a trade deal with the EU, it'll have to abide to the same regulations it's been trying to get rid of, no?
    Uhm, what? What do you mean by "population reduction"? Also, how is that even bad; more than half of Luxembourg's population isn't Luxembourgish and we definitely don't have any horrendous problems because of it.
     
  2. The_Silent

    The_Silent

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    Actually, here in Scandinavia, a lot of the laws made by the EU is regressive. And they're still forced upon us, we're forced reduce our control with what is put in food, how many hormone-altering chemicals is put in children's toys, chemicals and flavors in cigarettes, fat in food ect. Because the EU is behind us on this. Also, allowing corporations to sue nations was a major blunder, as was allowing corporations to patent "life".

    When that is said, I'm not particularly pro leaving, not until more other nations leave at least, just saying that it isn't all sunshine and daisies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  3. oger-lord

    oger-lord

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    In 10 years it is reckoned that over 1 in 10 of the population in Germany will not be Germans, a sad way to undo all the population reduction efforts people in Europe have been doing over the last half a century.
    Not in 10 years, this is the situation right now. In 20-30 years Germans could become a minority like British are already in London.
    Bertelsmann (lobbyist group) for example says Germany needs 500.000 migrants every your until 2050. (atm in Germany migrants = refugees)



    This, my friend, is what is the saddest part about this all. That one of the leading industry nations of the world couldn't bring themselves to at least contribute a certain MINIMUM to their responsibility in humanity. 10000 is an insult to all the nations that actually fulfilled their duty as a peaceful wealthy nation in times of need.​

    Sure, open borders is the only solution....not that it would be better to help the people by improving their home countries....
    Their responsibility is the destruction of their own nation and culture to help only a tiny random fragment of the people living in poverty.
    A society that created all the scientific knowledge, medicin, democracy and social wellfare that we take for granted.

    I'm a german. Do you know how much taking in a million refugees affected my daily life?
    I'll tell you: not at all. I can still eat my bagle peacefully on the street. I can still walk the streets without seeing a beggar. I can still get groceries without getting robbed on my way home. My wage didn't drop. My taxes didn't rise.
    Like, literally, if it weren't for the media, I wouldn't even know that we took in "millions of refugees". Because whereever I go, I just don't see them. It didn't change my daily life even in the slightest. And that makes a lot of sense, considering that even one million refugees is only a 1% increase of the population of germany.
    So let me ask just a single question:
    What the fuck is everyone afraid of?

    We have more crimes in Germany, but that does not mean every German is robbed.
    You sound extremly naive. We have already areas in Germany where migrants created their own society.
    There is a big cultural difference and at the moment there is no pressure to adapt our way of living.
    Besides assimilation only works in small numbers, not with 1.500.000+ people who come to a country already struggeling with migration issues.

    By the way the idea of mass immigration is the destruction of the european nations and creating a central EU governement.
    EU politican Martin Schulz said: "Refugees are more valuable than gold. What they bring to us is the undeviating dream of europe. A dream that we have lost over time."
     
  4. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    It is true though which is the sad reality of it all. Turkey is not a good country recently as it has done some quite unreasonable things. For example it shot down a Russian fighter aircraft for minor airspace violation. Yes Putin denies any wrong doing and yes Russia did fly over Turkey but that is no excuse for an act of aggression, especially if you called someone your friend.

    Ask people (not politicians) in Germany. A surprisingly large number will tell you the UK did the right thing. Women who used to feel safe now no longer feel safe. I agree it is not everyone and many of the people are trying their best, however some are not and that is enough to say no.
    Do you live next to any? Seeing how they were settled in remote areas mostly. I know for a fact that many Germans no longer feel safe.
    Yes but each will bring in about 6 other people due to EU mandated family clauses... Additionally they will each have about 6 children... In 20 years 10%? 20%? I am for one happy that the UK can say no to such people.
    Not the Syrian refugees. The African, Afghanistan and ISIL refugees who claim they are Syrian refugees.
    Yes they save so much energy per year! People here in the UK cannot afford to heat themselves in winter but hay, who cares if a few thousand old age pensioners die due to hypothermia after all it is good for the environment.
    Yes so progressive. To bad it is entirely pointless since Indonesia released more Carbon Dioxide last year than Europe ever did in a single year ever. Instead we just have to pay more but hay, we can apparently afford it. Who cares about old people who cannot afford it anyway.
    Labour movement is not the problem and the UK will always allow skilled people in. As it is tons of medial professional from India and Pakistan are allowed in every year to work in the healthcare system. It is movement of non-worker people into the UK to rip off society which is. For example various European gangs from places like Romania come here to the city centres to rob people blind. They are thrown out during the summer, intentionally, just to return for more looting in the winter. Some city centres have reported several hundred percent increase in crime and there is nothing the police here can do about it. All those refugees could come here in a few years as well, especially those in Turkey.
    Many of the refugees are coming in as single children or fathers of a whole family in Turkey or other countries. Once they are in under EU regulations and human rights they can bring their entire family. If they are fathers they can then bring their 2 or more wives as well since that is also part of their human rights. Accepting refugees is a huge liability as each one you accept can bring in as many as over 10 others. The refugees in Germany currently are only a small faction of those to come.
    Instead of having 13 kids, people in Germany have been quite responsible for the last several decades. However a lot of the "refugees" are not especially since their culture encourages large families.
    Because if the people are of the same culture then they have problems with you. It no longer is "multi-cultural" but rather "their culture".
     
  5. moyackx

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    Suscribing... just to keep in touch with the first hand impressions from GB citizen and forth.
     
  6. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    In this thread:
    - People telling me (a german) to ask germans about how they feel about the UK leaving
    - Non-germans telling me (a german) that my country is destroyed by refugees, despite me absolutely not noticing that
    - Non-germans telling me (a german) that the population of my country does not longer consist of a majority of germans, despite me not noticing that either
    - Non-germans telling me that women in my country no longer feel safe, despite that obviously being untrue, because none of my female friends ever mentioned feeling unsafe
    - A person responding to my cynical answer to how everything is destroyed by refugees with "just see what turkey did to the russian jet" and expecting me to figure out how the hell he managed to switch from one topic to another without the slightest connection


    I'm out of this thread. There's just too much baseless bar-room talk going on here. And as a scientist and teacher, I hate arguing with people that don't back their ridicolous claims with hard facts.


    But it helped me understand why something like the Brexit could even happen.

    Because everyone in the world is getting dumber every day.
     
  7. Kakerate

    Kakerate

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    Well to be fair, your saying that since you haven't noticed a change, there is no change is kind of flawed logic. Ideally, whether someone was German or Non-German shouldn't really matter?? Neither you or DSG were really presenting statistics or anything, though I'm sure both of you could get the data to support your arguments if you wanted to. I didn't see you back your claims with hard facts, you know? Idk, just seemed like misguided anger about this post xD
     
  8. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    That's not how debates work. If you claim something, you have to give proof. I don't need proof to doubt your claim.

    Also, just out of curiousity: you believe that someone who is not from the country in question knows better how life is in that country than someone who actually lives there?

    Yes, residents of a nation are not a hive-mind. But I certainly know more germans than he does, so it's safe to assume that my statistical group of evidence is probably larger than his.
     
  9. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Yes because all Germans clearly must be clones of you so share the same opinions...
    Look at BREXIT vote results, some areas voted to stay, others voted to leave. Everyone is technically British much like you are "German".
    No one said it is destroyed. Only that there is a good chance it will be unless something is done soon.
    Again, no one said that. People said that there is a high chance of that being the case in several decades time.
    Once again no one said that. People said that some women in Germany no longer feel safe due to some "refugees" behaving badly. The same applies to villages in the UK and other European countries with some badly behaved refugees (not all are) in them.
    Well where are your facts then? Just because you have met 1, or even a few people does not make everyone in the country like that. Look at BREXIT results and you can see that opinions were split.
    No one is saying that, but equally well just because you live there does not mean you know what life is like everywhere in your country. Much like in South Africa you can be in a completely safe area where you would think it is the best country in the world, while just a few hundred meters away you will be lucky to not be murdered within an hour.

    Also technically your entire argument is flawed because I actually did vote to stay you know... So you wanted me to vote to leave?!

    Run the BREXIT vote in Germany and France and you will see that the people there are also not content with the EU. Sure they might majority vote to stay in, however the population will still be as split with a huge fraction saying to leave.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  10. dtnmang

    dtnmang

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    I hope you know that many people vote Brexit because there were people who voiced legit concerns about the EU's power over its states but whose voices were drowned out by the leftists who smeared them as "neo-Nazis, racists, fascists" on the media, like they always did to people they disagree with. So these Brexit votes were to spite the leftists, who have been the most loyal foot soldiers of the globalist elites to undermine states' authority. Cameron also aggressively pushed people to vote to remain, so naturally they react against it. The powers that be literally told the people DO NOT PUSH THE RED BUTTON, and the rest was reverse psychology doing its job.
     
  11. oger-lord

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  12. The_Silent

    The_Silent

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    "Lefties".. There is plenty of anti-EU people on the left.
     
  13. MatiS

    MatiS

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    Most of mainstream EU leftists (ideological, not economical) are hypocrites. They talk about tolerance, but are the least tolerant people in the world (calling everyone who disagree 'fascist' certainly isn't sign of tolerance)...

    As for the Germany, I don't leave there so I don't have much knowledge about the situation there, but I have a friend in Berlin that told me few rather interesting things (rahter weak argument, I know). According to what he said, there are some districts ruled by muslim mafia. Most crimes are not reported to the police, but to said mafia that reacts following the sharia law, and white people are afraid of going to this districts. I wouldn't also believe German mainstream medias, cause most of the medias in my country are owned by RASP, and I can easily see if they lie. And they lie a lot.
     
  14. MatiS

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    As I said, it's weak argument and I know it. Still, I'm 100% sure of the media part, and I can give proofs if you want.
     
  15. The_Silent

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    The media and people are too polarized. Confirmation bias makes sure both sides see evidence of what they believe in.
     
  16. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    Says who? The tinfoil crowd?

    Again: back that up with data.

    Some people also think that climate change is a lie.

    I don't need facts to doubt your claims. YOU need facts to prove your claims.

    Your argument is basicly "God exists. I can't prove it, but if you doubt it, you have to prove me he doesn't exist first!". That is not how debates work.

    Flawed example. Everyone in south africa knows about the issues in the country. Just like I know about the issues in my country.

    Why is my argument flawed just because you voted pro stay? That doesn't change anything about you claiming things without backing them up.

    Many people here are stupid. I never said everyone is the same. But just like you, these people have no idea what they are talking about, yet believe that some refugees are the end of the world. Of course, most of these people never even met a refugee.
     
  17. oger-lord

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    In Germany the media is not polarized, the big media is basically all the same with only a tiny difference.
    People are divided into a group who trusts this media and another one who does not trust it at all. (and calls it Lügenpresse that means liar press)
    It is often strange when all big newspapers say the similar things about Russia, Syria, EU, Refugees and they are all anti PEGIDA, anti FPÖ, anti AfD, anti Brexit....
     
  18. MatiS

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    First of all, you just said that all the people that are against the EU are stupid. Second, you said that immigrants are not problematic. That's wrong, for example Cologne 01.01.16. Incests happen, but not on this scale. Also, there is one rather important thing about immigrants. They are not as healthy for the economy as mainstream media say. The biggest proof of that is this. Also, look at the statistics. What type of people vote against Multi-Culti? Not rich, obviously. So not-educated people vote against? Nope, there is something more. Where do poor people live? Country-site and in districts with immigrants. Where do rich people live? Together, they meet only well-educated immigrants, people who came to the Europe for education and career, not people who came here because they were promised money and easy life for free. So people who vote against multi-culti have daily contact with it, an people who vote for do not. It means something, doesn't it?

    PS: I'm not saying that immigrants are bad, many of them are good people. I'm just saying that mass immigration from the third world is not a good thing, and we should consider other ways of fixing our population problems.
     
  19. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

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    Germany's current population is ~80 million. Last year 500 thousand refugees were let in. That means that ~0.6% of the population are refugees. This year even more refugees are arriving in Europe. Germany has already said that it "can cope with at least 500,000 asylum seekers a year for several years" so each year that is ~0.5% of the total population in refugees. Although Germany is trying to block family reunification with asylum seekers how effective that will be is doubtful as family reunification often is interlinked with human rights. As such one can expect a lot more migrants later down the line as part of family reunification, potentially doubling or even quadrupling the number of refugees. By the end of 2018 over 2% of the German population will be refugees, of which by 2024 one could expect that number to rise to 4% or even 8%. Although still not the majority, that is still a huge number that can influence politics.

    In some of the countries of asylum seekers they believe in polygamy. They also have large household sizes. Since the average German has a family size of just ~2.0 which is less than them this means that within 1 or 2 generations that percentage could increase greatly. As such by 2040 or 2060 you would be looking at 20-40% of the population being of migrant decent. At this stage they will have enough influence to control politics, laws and even culture. This is already happening in the UK to some extent.
    I guess all those German women being raped by migrants is also a lie... Apparently the entirety of Europe is also suffering a massive wave of sexual assault lies. Why do I have a feeling they are not lies?
    Proofs come in either a complex and tedious proof or a simple disproof. If I say god exists you can either disproof he exits, or proof he does not exist.
    Actually not everyone does. I met someone at University who denied there being any problems. Mind you he lived only inside a secure area where there are no problems.
    Because...
    So by what you are saying by me voting to remain in the EU I must be "dumb". Not a very nice thing to say...

    Also the main reason Scotland voted to stay in the EU was because of the stupid SNP leader who wants to break Scotland from the UK. If you think BREXIT was bad, the referendum for that we had a few years ago was not only to leave the EU, but also to leave the UK. Luckily it failed, but again it was very divided. SNP is now hoping to brain wash enough children and use the fact that the "leave the EU" part of the vote has already happened to try and get Scotland independent from the UK with another vote in 2 years. I hope Santa buries the SNP in coal this year.
    Again with the insults... The word "some" is a misnomer for the number of refugees in Germany. By 2018, 2% of the population of Germany will be refugees at least.

    Oh and I am half German so...
     
  20. dtnmang

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    May I clarify then? The mainstream leftists that dominate academia and establishment are EU drones. Always accuse dissenters of racism.
    The working-class leftists are against the EU.
    You wouldn't need to worry about it.