A gloomy day #brexit

[chobibo]

Sounds like selfish reasons, I mean the "million pounds a night" one. I don't quite get the fishing part though, are the locals suffering from poor catch due to the presence of the spanish fishermen? That's kind of like how some of our fishermen can't fish due to Chinese patrol boat presence.

People should learn to share, for fuck's sake.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I don't quite get the fishing part though, are the locals suffering from poor catch due to the presence of the spanish fishermen?

Scotland (UK) owns the fishing rights as part of its territorial waters. However the EU controls how fishing rights are distributed and the quotas of fish allowed to be caught. They give Spanish and other European fishing fleets a share of the fishing rights. The result is that Scottish fishermen are often idle and in financial difficulties because they have filled their quotas while Spanish fishing ships are get cheap fish for Spain. If UK regains control over the territorial waters and manages its own fishing rights they can then chase away foreign fishing ships allowing Scottish (and UK) fishermen to exclusively fish the area. Since there are then more fishing shares they can keep active more of the time so fishing becomes a much more financially secure business. Additionally Spain would then have to buy those fish from the UK instead of sourcing it themselves and hence bring in more trade revenue to the UK.

Sounds kind of pathetic I know but it is the livelihood security of a small group of people. Ironically most of the Scottish caught fish are exported to Spain so its actually very expensive/difficult to buy fish here in Scotland although we should have some of the best freshest fish around.

That's kind of like how some of our fishermen can't fish due to Chinese patrol boat presence.

Its not that extreme. Also the UK should have the capabilities to keeps its fishing zones secure from illegal fishing so that is not the problem. Its just that the UK fishermen are only assigned some of the fishing rights as opposed to all of them. Selfish yes but it does have positive economic meaning for the UK, and possibly could encourage more people to eat fish here.

 

[xxdingo93xx]

Woooow, I kinda thought a thread like this would be opend. And I also though it would get out of hand...

 

[Rui]

Woooow, I kinda thought a thread like this would be opend. And I also though it would get out of hand...

Things rarely ever got out of hand in this sort of threads. It's just a common misconception around here that two people arguing is a bad thing. Discussing is the way to resolve differences or accept them. Shutting threads in people's faces ain't.

 

[Celaquil]

I don't know what I think about this Brexit thing, being Norwegian I'm born into a society that has a nearly phobic reaction to the word "union".
As you may or may not know, Norway is not an official member of the EU, but we have close relations regardless.
But if the main argument is that of a "purist" racism kind, then I feel sad for the uneducated and downright uncultured population of Britain.

I find it funny, frankly, how someone living somewhere can consider themselves "better" or "more important" than people living elsewhere.
Especially when you consider that these days there is nearly no such thing as a "pure" person of any kind, we've all got mixed DNA, we all
have genes from several different places in the world, and we're all one damned species.

So if this is the foundation of which Britain decides to declare itself separate from EU, then it is a very sad thing indeed. What economical and
financial implications this may have is worthless to speculate in, but I do want to say that you all make it sound like just because one bad move
was made, it means that more bad moves will follow. And that may be, but I personally think we humans are better than that, we don't pave the
way toward a new mistake by making more mistakes, we learn from them. I have hopes for Britain still. But I am sad about this decision.

 

[oger-lord]

I find it funny, frankly, how someone living somewhere can consider themselves "better" or "more important" than people living elsewhere.
Especially when you consider that these days there is nearly no such thing as a "pure" person of any kind, we've all got mixed DNA, we all
have genes from several different places in the world, and we're all one damned species.

I think you have difficulties to understand the term national state.
A nation is a homogeneous society with its language, culture, history.
Do you think it is okay that the Chinese are replacing the Tibetans and abolish the Tibetian culture?
Would you say that the Tibetians should not defend themselves because they have a similar DNA like the Chinese? That it would shows that they want to be superior?
As a reminder: It is not a coincidence that the french revolution was about democracy and the nation. The greek term Demos means folk.
People have different legal philosophies because of their culture and history, you cannot put them together in a single country and
expect that they come to an agreement about law.
All multiethnic countries in europe broke appart when there was no monarch or dictator.
This is the reason why the EU in its current form is a danger for democracy and why people want to stick to sovereign national states.

 

[xxdingo93xx]

Things rarely ever got out of hand in this sort of threads. It's just a common misconception around here that two people arguing is a bad thing. Discussing is the way to resolve differences or accept them. Shutting threads in people's faces ain't.

Maybe "getting out of hand" was the wrong term. What I rather meant is having another controversial thread again, where sooner or later the debate's topic changes to something else ...
What I've seen so far is this: Brexit -> how to hold arguments -> migrants in germany -> women being raped -> "rage"quit.
You coul still put a little on-topic comments between this order, though.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I find it funny, frankly, how someone living somewhere can consider themselves "better" or "more important" than people living elsewhere.
Especially when you consider that these days there is nearly no such thing as a "pure" person of any kind, we've all got mixed DNA, we all
have genes from several different places in the world, and we're all one damned species.

The UK is not a racist country in any way. The xenophobic side of the problem has 3 major components. First is that the EU forces down labour prices since many EU citizens are willing to work for less than it is possible to raise a family on in the UK due to a combination of cheaper living costs in their home country and unsafe/illegal shared accommodation in the UK (which quality of life is too low). Second is that many EU migrants come to the UK with no respect to UK laws and customs, committing crimes purposefully (many thief gangs and beggar gangs) or unintentionally (dumping waste / illegal poaching of wildlife). Finally it also can be for the protection of many EU migrants since they are often forced over to the UK into a life of modern day slavery due to gangs and other low moral organizations inside their home country and unfortunately here in the UK as well (many prostitutes and physical labour workers are in this category).

The UK has been, and will continue to allow qualified people from around the world to come and work here. A lot of the NHS system is operated by doctors from places like Pakistan and India. Leave will only reduce the number of migrants coming from Europe who do not intend to work here or who are working in jobs that really should be filled by local people.

but I do want to say that you all make it sound like just because one bad move
was made, it means that more bad moves will follow.

As it is the EU was purposely holding off many new and strict regulations until after BREXIT because they knew that if they passed them there was no hope that remain would ever win.

Oh and the EU makes it impossible for member countries to negotiate trade deals outside the EU without first going through the EU. The very definition of removing ones sovereignty. This is why the UK leaving the EU will be so tricky because they cannot just go up to Spain, France, Germany etc and negotiate trade and other deals with them, instead it all has to be run through the EU and all agreed upon by all member states. On the plus side the UK can make trade deals directly with the rest of the world so it could really boost exports to places like China, India, United States of America, or Russia if it so desired after the leave is initiated.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Many of the refugees in Europe will end up becoming German or other European citizens and hence would have been able to travel to the UK. Turkey's EU agreement and their own policies mean that potentially millions of "would be refugees" would have free access over Europe in years to come.

Not true. Refugees do not get the german citizenship until after at least 7 years of stay. And even then there are many conditions attached to it.

"To be eligible for naturalization, a person has to have lived legally in Germany for at least eight years and possess the appropriate residence permit. Foreigners who have successfully completed an integration course are eligible for naturalization after seven years. Persons wishing to become naturalized citizens must also declare their allegiance to our constitution and have a sufficient command of the German language. Knowledge of German is an essential prerequisite for integration into our society. Candidates for naturalization must be able to support themselves without recourse to social assistance or unemployment benefits (Arbeitslosengeld II), unless this is due to circumstances beyond their control; nor can they have committed any serious criminal offences. In addition, they must give up their previous citizenship. In certain cases or for certain groups of persons, however, multiple nationality may be considered."
Source

So even the earliest syrian refugees can not get german citizenship until the year 2022. And if the war against Daesh isn't solved before that, I'd say their stay is justified.

 

[Pharaoh_]

Do keep in mind that the majority of the elderly voted for exit, which is a reason why the media have put demographic data under the microscope.
It is also noteworthy that social research treats the elderly as a sensitive group. "In research, as in wider society, older people are commonly excluded, marginalised or treated as less than fully competent adults." (Specialist Research Ethics Guidance Paper).
Thus, it is rather precarious when easily manipulable individuals are given a chance to voice their opinion, along with individuals who judge based on their days of no return and not based on the future of the upcoming generations.

The incidents reported as a result of racial discrimination proliferate by the day. The Facebook group 'Coexist' is a great source to keep up with what is happening, and apparently Londoners are equally being victimized. Bigotry, racism and xenophobia have been ratified with the referendum, which is presently the most significant downside. The slurs are targeting everyone who does not look like a 'Brit', white and blonde. It is a disguised neo-Nazi wave, if you ask me.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Nice data. So up to the age of 44, the majority of people voted remain. Shows how much power the 45+ demographic has in terms of voting.

Would be interesting to see how high the voter participation was in each age bracket.

 

[oger-lord]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...eople-bad-voting-millennials-eu-vote-politics
Besides I dont understand the argument that older generations (who have children and grandchildren) do not care for the future.

Bigotry, racism and xenophobia have been ratified with the referendum, which is presently the most significant downside.

"Anti-Racist is a Code Word for Anti-White."
People who use the word racism these days are in 95% of the cases pushing an agenda against the native people of europe.
You dont want to become a minority in your own country? You must be a racist, a neonazi, a fascist!

 

[The_Silent]

We, as a species, does not have races in the scientific sense. Racism is the leftover of less, sophisticated, times.

A sexually repressed and sexist culture / religion, and a failure to integrate people, is the cause of all of the issues.

 

[Rui]

Maybe "getting out of hand" was the wrong term. What I rather meant is having another controversial thread again, where sooner or later the debate's topic changes to something else ...
What I've seen so far is this: Brexit -> how to hold arguments -> migrants in germany -> women being raped -> "rage"quit.
You coul still put a little on-topic comments between this order, though.

I see. Honestly, it has always been my opinion that this is how debates are supposed to evolve. Because we disagree on the big things, we need to understand the small things we're disagreeing on. Surely we all want the UK to be economically prosperous and their women to be safe. How does migration fit into the picture? Ultimately, all boils down to either fact or belief. If (instead of getting butthurt) we accept facts unacquainted to us and reconsider our position, we may end up profiting intellectually from a debate.

 

[Ash]

Just my two cents, as I've pledged not to get involved further in this discussion, but myself and other academics are leaving the country for universities in other nations.

 

[A Void]

This is truly sad, I didn't think they were all that serious to leave.. So is this what happens when half of the continent is having a crisis? Where is unity?

 

[Rui]

Just my two cents, as I've pledged not to get involved further in this discussion, but myself and other academics are leaving the country for universities in other nations.

Are you feeling unsafe in England or the UK in general? Or is it a matter of principle?

 

[Ash]

I am not afraid or unsafe. However, I know people that do feel that way. Frankly I am embarrassed, as are most of my colleagues. Science is dead in the UK now, and there is going to be no room for early career researchers coming up through the ranks. So, if I want to continue in my field I have to leave the country. It's a simple choice.

 

[Pharaoh_]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...eople-bad-voting-millennials-eu-vote-politics
Besides I dont understand the argument that older generations (who have children and grandchildren) do not care for the future.


"Anti-Racist is a Code Word for Anti-White."
People who use the word racism these days are in 95% of the cases pushing an agenda against the native people of europe.
You dont want to become a minority in your own country? You must be a racist, a neonazi, a fascist!

Both groups of 18-24 and 65+ are manipulable. The former lack knowledge and experience, thereby having an opinion which echoes parental perspectives, and the latter has been explained in a previous post.

I am not sure why you quoted me on that part, I actually feel that it has nothing to do with the point you are raising. In case there is a misunderstanding, I am not British. If you, however, hint sarcasm, I do agree that people have been exaggeratedly using terms to make a statement. It is almost laughable to see how often the word "fascist" is being used in an attempt to belittle someone's point of view, a reasoning controversy/fallacy also known as 'ad hominem'. Although I would digress if I went on with this, I do realize that bigotry has been overwhelmed by labeling in order to appeal to sentiment, misguide the process of argumentation and therefore direct the masses -who will most likely be incapable of critical thinking-.

In all honesty, we cannot truly dismantle the result and decipher individual reasoning behind it - we can only guess, in attempt to approach reality. The statistical significance of any demographic datum is being sacrificed whilst we scream for what we hold dear and what we have been used to. The real question is, is it worth it?

 

[MattNJ]

Hopefully the UK's financial sector will kick in and the UK's economy will improve as a result. Then, after the financial sector kicks in, maybe the UK's citizen's and business's taxes can be reduced because the financial sector will not need the extra government money to stay afloat. Unfortunately, however, the UK may see a shrinkage in it's financial sector if jobs move from the UK to other EU countries if the UK loses it's permit from the EU to deal in EU financial products.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

let's face the facts, the only reason for the split is because some Muslim killed a British member of parliament.

we're moving from the eu because of terrorism and a lot of terrorism is influenced by foreigners.

I think the choice was right. give us 50 years of dealing with our own problems before throwing us back into holding the world's hand.

 

[A Void]

let's face the facts, the only reason for the split is because some Muslim killed a British member of parliament.

we're moving from the eu because of terrorism and a lot of terrorism is influenced by foreigners.

I think the choice was right. give us 50 years of dealing with our own problems before throwing us back into holding the world's hand.

Yeah it always is easier to run away, rather than face the common problems.

 

[xxdingo93xx]

Yeah it always is easier to run away, rather than face the common problems.

Running away won't solve the problems though. In times like these it is just stupid to not stick together. But let's see how brexit will turn out within a few years.

 

[A Void]

Running away won't solve the problems though. In times like these it is just stupid to not stick together. But let's see how brexit will turn out within a few years.

I hope you know that my comment was "sarcasm"?

 

[oger-lord]

Yeah it always is easier to run away, rather than face the common problems.

The common problem are our politicans, the best way is that each country votes their government out of office.
They are responsible for open borders, euro crisis, Islamic terrorism in europe,....

 

[A Void]

The common problem are our politicans, the best way is that each country votes their government out of office.
They are responsible for open borders, euro crisis, Islamic terrorism in europe,....

Uh? And then what? Anarchy? It's not that simple.

Also, what's wrong with open borders?

 

[The_Silent]

Nothing prevents UK from working hand in hand with the rest of Europe, like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland does right now. Norway and Switzerland is very much European countries (Iceland too, but it is a little further away), even though they never were a part of the EU.

 

[Ash]

Again, not getting involved in this discussion for very obvious reasons. However, I am reading it closely and am obliged to point out that this has never happened:

let's face the facts, the only reason for the split is because some Muslim killed a British member of parliament.

You are either referring to the murder of Lee Rigby (a Fusilier killed by two zealots) or the murder of MP Joe Cox (who was actually murdered by an ultra-nationalist). There have been no cases of UK MPs murdered by religious extremists of any creed.

 

[xxdingo93xx]

I hope you know that my comment was "sarcasm"?

it was too early in the morning for me

 

[MattNJ]

Nothing prevents UK from working hand in hand with the rest of Europe, like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland does right now. Norway and Switzerland is very much European countries (Iceland too, but it is a little further away), even though they never were a part of the EU.

I am curious, if the UK were to work along side the EU, like Switzerland or Norway do, and be granted a permit to deal in EU financial products, as they have in the past, when they were part of the EU, would there be a possibility of any strings being attached to the UK having a permit to deal in EU financial products?

 

[Dr Super Good]

I am curious, if the UK were to work along side the EU, like Switzerland or Norway do, and be granted a permit to deal in EU financial products, as they have in the past, when they were part of the EU, would there be a possibility of any strings being attached to the UK having a permit to deal in EU financial products?

They want to attach a lot of strict EU deals such as free movement and other nonsense. That said this is all hot air at the moment because actual negotiation and deals will only start once the exit produce is started. The UK will only start the exit procedure when the next PM chosen within the Conservative party.

That said the EU are currently whining like little children because their house of cards is starting to shake. Pretty soon they will make running such referendums illegal inside an EU member state since it is not the sort of dictatorship... I mean democracy they want. The EU now does not want you to have a choice to leave.

 

[A Void]

They want to attach a lot of strict EU deals such as free movement and other nonsense. That said this is all hot air at the moment because actual negotiation and deals will only start once the exit produce is started. The UK will only start the exit procedure when the next PM chosen within the Conservative party.

That said the EU are currently whining like little children because their house of cards is starting to shake. Pretty soon they will make running such referendums illegal inside an EU member state since it is not the sort of dictatorship... I mean democracy they want. The EU now does not want you to have a choice to leave.

Good. Maybe in the future we will have United States of Europe. They should have never allowed England to leave.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Good. Maybe in the future we will have United States of Europe. They should have never allowed England to leave.

Except it is not united. Is the EU a member of NATO? Does the president of the EU go for meetings in G8? Does the average kid even know who the president of the EU is?

It would not be a problem if they actually took control over Europe and ran it like the USA. Instead they pretend every country still has its sovereignty while actually they do not. They pretend to be democratic but instead are closer to a dictatorship. They just take money and make ridiculous laws. Ask 99% of people in Europe what the EU government is talking about and they will respond that they do not know. The EU is not transparent, the EU is not democratic and the EU certainly is not giving people equal representation.

To put it in perspective for people from the USA, the BREXIT vote would be like wanting to leave the USA because the central government wants to make gun ownership illegal at a national level without running a referendum. One can argue if the decision is good or bad but ultimately the people get annoyed and even angry. If you think people between states in the USA have different cultures and opinions then you have seen nothing compared with Europe.

 

[MattNJ]

They want to attach a lot of strict EU deals such as free movement and other nonsense. That said this is all hot air at the moment because actual negotiation and deals will only start once the exit produce is started. The UK will only start the exit procedure when the next PM chosen within the Conservative party.

That said the EU are currently whining like little children because their house of cards is starting to shake. Pretty soon they will make running such referendums illegal inside an EU member state since it is not the sort of dictatorship... I mean democracy they want. The EU now does not want you to have a choice to leave.

So I guess we will have to wait and see what comes out of the talks and agreements between the UK and the EU concerning the UK financial market and such.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

stopping foreigners into the country will of course stop terrorist attacks.

heck if I had it my way I would ban the Muslim religion because they are obviously the problem

 

[Xonok]

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aop9NgX_460sv.mp4

 

[Celaquil]

I think you have difficulties to understand the term national state.
A nation is a homogeneous society with its language, culture, history.
Do you think it is okay that the Chinese are replacing the Tibetans and abolish the Tibetian culture?
Would you say that the Tibetians should not defend themselves because they have a similar DNA like the Chinese? That it would shows that they want to be superior?
As a reminder: It is not a coincidence that the french revolution was about democracy and the nation. The greek term Demos means folk.
People have different legal philosophies because of their culture and history, you cannot put them together in a single country and
expect that they come to an agreement about law.
All multiethnic countries in europe broke appart when there was no monarch or dictator.
This is the reason why the EU in its current form is a danger for democracy and why people want to stick to sovereign national states.

My goodness, I don't honestly know what I said that offended you so much.

I think you have difficulties to understand the term national state.

I don't. And I would urge you to not presume too much upon others in a debate, presuming what the other person is saying
besides the actual words he's speaking is often what leads to unnecessary complications during a debate. People are generally
prideful, and easily offended when they feel that you are "putting words in their mouth" or "misrepresenting their argument."

And this is what I feel that you are doing here, I never said that I think, and I quote:

it is okay that the Chinese are replacing the Tibetans and abolish the Tibetian culture.

And this is completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. In that particular scenario I do not
have the data or information required to make a solidified opinion. The way you phrase it make it sound
like I wouldn't think it's okay, but in order to properly have an opinion about it, I would have to research
it more.

All multiethnic countries in europe broke appart when there was no monarch or dictator.

This is not true, Norway, my country, is a very good example of that. In Norway there are people of many
different ethnic origins living side-by-side, and no matter where you're from you are free to practice your
own culture around you, as long as parts of that culture doesn't directly oppose the laws of the country.
There are mosques for Muslims, there are churches for Christians and there are temples for hindus and
Buddhists, and many other examples of multiculturalism. And since we were talking about the Roman
empire, let me remind you that this empire was not ruled by a monarch for the longest time, and the
Roman empire was one of the largest and most successful multicultural empires this world has ever
seen. All this is completely beside the point, however, at it would seem you have successfully baited
me into starting this discussion with you.

You took my argument, which was that I think the "reasoning" for Brexit, the way I've heard it from
most people I've talked to, is bad. (Reasoning being that they wanted out of EU because they feared
immigrants would come to their country and steal their jobs/culture) And you misrepresented it by
mockery into some sort of ignorant slander toward people who are respectfully,
even self-righteously, defending their own culture. So, let me elaborate on what I meant:

The very argument "They come to our country and steal our jobs" is defeated by itself, it's contradictory.
Not a single person can "come" to the country uninvited and furthermore thus "steal" someone's job unless
the government actually secures this opportunity for them. Now I am not entirely aware of how the process
works in detail in Britain, but if it is something similar to how it works in Norway, then I can say this:

They are invited to the country by the government, and they are given visas to work by the government.
If anyone is to be blamed for "foreigners stealing your jobs" it is the government, not the poor people who
come from a depraved and sometimes war-ravaged country seeking fortune and happiness.
Because why wouldn't they? Don't they deserve happiness? They deserve it
far more than me or you, frankly, coming from their background, seeing what they have
seen. I am despised by people who sit in their homes wishing they had a bigger TV, but
they can't afford one because they are currently unemployed, but don't otherwise suffer
in any meaningful ways. And then they blame the "fucking immigrants" for having stolen
their jobs when these very same "fucking immigrants" would consider it a blessing to be
in the same position that they are currently in themselves.

 

[A Void]

stopping foreigners into the country will of course stop terrorist attacks.

heck if I had it my way I would ban the Muslim religion because they are obviously the problem

Good, you will never have your way. The same could be said for crusades that swept Europe in 11 - 15th centuries, killing, destroying, robbing and pressuring that what was "against the Church".

Not every innocent Muslim is a religious zealot, the group behind these attacks is an extremist one.

TheLordOfChaos201, you are definitely a republican.

 

[Celaquil]

heck if I had it my way I would ban the Muslim religion because they are obviously the problem

My dear friend, this is a product of general ignorance.

If you look it up, you'll find that terrorism and Islam has
nearly exactly nothing to do with each-other. It is true that
terrorists often USE Islam as an excuse for what they do,
the same way crusaders used Christianity as an "excuse"
to butcher entire villages during the dark ages.

I would say "if it was up to me all religion should be removed"
but then people would find other excuses to butcher each-other.
Religion in and of itself is no longer an actual weapon, and if
some few find a sense of purpose in their life because of their
religion, then I say religion is a good thing.

This, however, is not the direction we want this thread to be moving
in. If you want to continue talking about Islam and terrorism, TLoC,
then please use the new "conversation" function with the people you'd
like to continue the discussion with.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

ok very well I understand what your intentions are now. you do not want flaming of religions.

however, I'm simply stating the facts. the terrorist attack is not coming from inside but from the immigrations and influence from out side. the influence of their religion and from hatred generated by our willingness to invite it in.

we need at this time to reject all that, shut our boarders, and think about our selves first. we have so Many problems besides this terrorist crisis, let us remove the plank from our eyes before dealing with the speck in the EUs(biblical reference)

 

[oger-lord]

And this is completely irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. In that particular scenario I do not
have the data or information required to make a solidified opinion. The way you phrase it make it sound
like I wouldn't think it's okay, but in order to properly have an opinion about it, I would have to research
it more.

It is not irrelevant. Often lefties find it normal that an african tribe or an asian country have a closed nation or society.
No one is calling them racist because they dont want multiculturalism.
But when they talk about europe everyone is a bigot who states that europe belongs to the europeans.

This is not true, Norway, my country, is a very good example of that. In Norway there are people of many
different ethnic origins living side-by-side, and no matter where you're from you are free to practice your
own culture around you, as long as parts of that culture doesn't directly oppose the laws of the country.
There are mosques for Muslims, there are churches for Christians and there are temples for hindus and
Buddhists, and many other examples of multiculturalism.

Islam is followed by 2.4% of the population, making it the largest non-Christian religion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Norway
Norway an extremly homogenious nation.
And for example this is a reason why all people are benefiting from the oil money: You have the necessary solidarity.

The very argument "They come to our country and steal our jobs" is defeated by itself, it's contradictory.
Not a single person can "come" to the country uninvited and furthermore thus "steal" someone's job unless
the government actually secures this opportunity for them.

You dont know how it feels to live in a country where the chancellor suddenly declares (because she changed her mind) that there are no borders and everybody can come in.
That you have to pay for all the people who are coming is the minor issue. No one is controlled at the border. (As a reminder the terrorists who killed 130 people in France came via the balkan route)
On some days 10.000 migrants crossed the border, that is the size of a small town. And you cant do anything, you can only watch.
That scared the shit out of me.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Just to interject, a lot of terrorism is being done by Muslim converts who do not even fully understand the religion. Terrorist movements like ISIL do not actually care much about Islam, but rather about recruitment and causing terror. Many of their recruits have criminal records and were radicalized in prison (perfect warriors for their kind of terror).

The UK is a tolerant country. Islam is not a problem, but rather a lack of integration and punishment. It is a fact that Muslims and blacks make up most of the prison population in this country despite being a tiny fraction of the entire population. It is not that law enforcement is discriminating, but rather that profile of person has a statistically much higher chance to be a criminal under UK law. This has nothing to do with the EU, especially currently and now with "leave" having won likely never will.

Everyone had different reasons for voting stay or leave. As I already said, a lot of them were nonsense or wrong reasons. However the fact still remains that the EU is not that good an organization as one would like. This can be seen in their North Korean style response to the BREXIT referendum, insulting the politicians here in the UK, making threats to the UK, planning to stop democracy by preventing member countries from ever legally being able to run such a referendum in future and blaming everyone but themselves.

Most of the benefits the EU claims credit for bringing to the UK were not directly a result of them. They could have been formed without the EU ever existing on a national level between countries. The only reason they were not is because there was no point when the EU existed. Ultimately now it will come down to that if the UK is blocked from the common market, it is an EU decision and not that they cannot negotiate with the countries they want to trade with. If UK nationals are deported from Spain and have visa free travel revoked that is an EU decision and not a result of the UK not wanting to negotiate with Spain.

The problem is entirely with the implementation of the EU. It would be one thing if all countries surrendered their sovereignty to become a new country "Europe" ruled by the EU with a president and each state having its own government. In fact this is pretty much how the USA operates. The problem is that they instead pretend that each of the member states has sovereignty and yet they have control. In G8, for example, the EU has full control over 4 out of the 8 "leaders" as well as their own president at the panel. With that logic the USA should be able to send the governor of California to the panel as he basically has as much power as Angela Merkel. It also wastes a ton of money since there are two complete levels of administration and none of the efficiency that could be gained by having a big government such as combined military etc. Let us not forget the massive differences in culture between the various countries of Europe, something the USA does not really have to deal with (it exists, but is nowhere near as big). A lot of people throughout Europe have grown sick of this lie and lack of representation, and UK BREXIT results show this.

 

[Roland]

I'd say these days the world is getting worse in all aspects of life.. I mean really, What's going on to these's people's brain?

 

[Dr Super Good]

What's going on to these's people's brain?

Corruption, greed, typical stuff which brings down countries. The EU was not democratic enough for the role in government it was trying to play.