[$100 Prize Pool] Melee Mapping Contest - Poll

[Maxwell]

Becouse @Blood Raven are really creative and skilled Melee map creator. But, unfortunately very few people understand how good is some of his maps

 

[The Panda]

Cant wait for results, everyone is close on the poll.

 

[deepstrasz]

Just wanted to remind the judges and moderator that there are people who voted for themselves, so please be careful with the final calculations. Sorry, if this is spam.

 

[KILLCIDE]

Hey everyone, please do not worry about the public poll right now. The Staff has been working on validating the votes as there are users from other communities such as Back2Warcraft that wish to participate. With that in mind, we also have ways of fishing out the naughty users.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Just wanted to remind the judges and moderator that there are people who voted for themselves

You know, I could now spend a few minutes explaining why those people are pathetic, but since this "vote for self" results in them being disqualified anyway, I will, instead of wasting my time with people who are so far below me, just say:
Their loss, no 100 bucks for them, all effort wasted.

 

[The Panda]

I'm just happy to have a nice map finished for the contest, if I win cool, if not then ill go on too the next contest. no biggie..

 

[deepstrasz]

You know, I could now spend a few minutes explaining why those people are pathetic, but since this "vote for self" results in them being disqualified anyway, I will, instead of wasting my time with people who are so far below me, just say:
Their loss, no 100 bucks for them, all effort wasted.

I don't want it to go there just yet. Removing their own votes is enough. If the judges want to lower the score for those entries, that's another of their decision.

 

[HighTac]

Don't worry. We will most likely just remove own votes. It's no rocket science and single participants even apologized already for voting for their own maps. I can understand them. It's tempting

 

[KILLCIDE]

If you voted for yourself, and it is your first offense, you will likely just get a slap on the wrist, and we won't deduct any points. If this isn't your first offense, then points will be deducted. However, do keep in mind that voting for yourself through the means of creating multiple accounts is completely different, and when you are caught, you will be disqualified.

 

[deepstrasz]

If you voted for yourself, and it is your first offense, you will likely just get a slap on the wrist, and we won't deduct any points. If this isn't your first offense, then points will be deducted.

And the Hive actually kept evidence of users?

 

[Wareditor]

I have been part of this community for years but I am more a lurker than an avid poster. However I think, it's a situation that need to be addressed.

It's a shame that Hive allow such a vote manipulation to take place in such an important contest. It's really easy to see that the votes have been manipulated and while making research about it, you will discover that the same method have been used recently for a previous contest (Mini-mapping contest #14). It's all there, just check the profiles of all the people who voted for Svelti. You will find fake accounts, him begging for votes and even congratulating himself on the fact that he got a medal because of all of that.

Here is my favorite one :

Spoiler

This account voted for him in this contest, was also used to vote for the mini-mapping contest #14 and has no real activity

It's very disturbing that the Hive did nothing when it happened the first time and it's even more frightening that it is happening a second time without nothing being done. This is not only affecting contests, if you check the activity of the profiles that he used for voting, you will see that he is also using them to promote his maps.

Let's be frank it would be somewhat forgiving if he really put his heart into the map, but just take a look at it and you will see that it is indeed a badly made melee map. The core motivation here is to increase his e-penis with another medal and the money.

In my opinion this user should be banned from the Hive.

 

[Maxwell]

@Shar Dundred Moderator's already know about this situation and going to deal with it.

 

[Maxwell]

The IP check will work to a certain degree. But what if that person has made another account from his friend's IP adress? That would be impossible to track down...

For such decisions exist Arena Moderator and Ralle. Personally I going to leave it for them.

 

[Ralle]

We are aware of the situation with the user in question. This person is going to be banned from The Arena for the forseeable future and will receive hefty warning points for creating multiple accounts.

 

[San]

 

[Naze]

Svetli is now officially removed from the contest: he is no longer in the poll or in the entries list.

Just letting you guys know that it takes some time to act on suspicious activity because we have a lot on our hands, but don't worry - we're not being lenient with it. I you find something suspicious feel free to start a conversation with any of the staff so we can investigate it.

 

[Abovegame]

I guess i made a mistake voting for myself. Oh well xD! I'll know better next time.

 

[A Void]

This is not surprising, Svetli* has done it before, you see; Mini mapping contest 14.

 

[Naze]

Okay guys this discussion is long enough now and part of the problem is solved already. The rest of it will be solved in due time, so don't worry about it.

Thread cleaned.

 

[L8man]

I was stupid enough to vote vor my own map and i cant fix it. also i wanted to vote for other peoples maps - can i undo it somehow?

 

[HighTac]

When extracting the poll results next week, I am going to count out votes by map creators for their own maps

 

[IcemanBo]

@Naze will lastly decide what happens to unallowed votes, just saying. Of course you can be most likely right.

 

[Naze]

Yea, and HighTac is right. When calculating the results, the following people who voted for themselves will have such votes disconsidered:

Abovegame
Mr.Henci
yusuk9127
XanderD
forsaker
RehcraM
L8man
Diegoit

 

[Ether]

Good thing I chose not to join the contest because I know to myself I can't win because I'm bad at symmetry based and strongly balanced melee maps. Better lose early than win by the wrong way. Too shameful for people had to be schemers and suckers just for reputation, medal, a hundred bucks, and some cheery fans to win. Above all these things, there is fun and thrill that seem to be the best award to possess. When you give fun and goosebumps to players, that's the coolest award you can have imo.

 

[Naze]

L8man is now officially removed from the contest: he is no longer in the poll and in the entries list.

He has been disqualified from the contest due to vote abuse. He (or his friends) registered new accounts to vote strictly for him in the poll, and who were also multiaccounting. This is unfair with other participants who also dedicated time to their work and are participating honestly.

 

[pick-a-chew]

That's some pretty disappointing behaviour; not only did they violate the spirit of the contest but they also denied participants who would have played fairly from entering the contest. I hope these are the only two.

 

[Flux]

With all these vote cheating, perhaps HIVE should limit a new user's capability to vote? Maybe it should require a certain number of post/rep/age(account)?

EDIT: Will -> With.

 

[HighTac]

Contrary to the cases where people manipulated the poll, I wouldn't be too harsh with the ones that voted for their own maps. Some of them surely wanted to vote for other maps without "degrading" their own and others just didn't think it through. This can be sorted out easily in the subsequent analysis and therewith it's settled.

 

[RED BARON]

I believe there was some attempts to ensure more of a balanced vote, by only counting votes from those that commented a reason. Also will check these through and vote.

 

[Anomines]

If you want some feedback for your maps check out this video series

E: Maybe I should clarify that its not me reviewing these maps. Its someone from WC3 reddit
Sorry for the stolen rep points

 

[Maxwell]

Yea, and HighTac is right. When calculating the results, the following people who voted for themselves will have such votes disconsidered:

Abovegame
Mr.Henci
yusuk9127
XanderD
forsaker
RehcraM
L8man
Diegoit

I also have quite a lot of votes of the new members. Some of them are invited to vote streamers like Zoom, some of them are from B2W comunity I guess becouse I don't know them.

 

[Daffa]

Seeing all this drama of vote abuse makes me want to vomit...

Better not get another one into the list. If you want $100 badly, you need to work hardly.

 

[deepstrasz]

If you want some feedback for your maps check out this video series

I hope that's not one of the judges.
Also, you shouldn't really laugh when reviewing. You can't be taken too seriously then.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

I hope that's not one of the judges.
Also, you shouldn't really laugh when reviewing. You can't be taken too seriously then.

In spite of him laughing, he gave some very useful feedback; plus, he's an experienced battle.net player, which means a lot in terms of reviewing melee maps. For example, he mentioned an important issue with the layout of starting locations on my map which I'll most definitely change after the contest ends.

 

[deepstrasz]

he mentioned an important issue with the layout of starting locations on my map which I'll most definitely change after the contest ends.

Yeah but if you are to be methodical, originality and improvement will stagnate to repetitive maps. I am saying what he said is debatable. I mean you have the protection/advantage of the long ramps but that comes with the cost of lack of space and straight tree arrangement.
I didn't say I don't appreciate his time, I'm saying it's best you do this kind of stuff less hasty, with more respect. So, if he laughs at some of our artists, I am more than allowed to criticize him for that. It's like laughing back at him.

 

[Maxwell]

Yeah but if you are to be methodical, originality and improvement will stagnate to repetitive maps. I am saying what he said is debatable. I mean you have the protection/advantage of the long ramps but that comes with the cost of lack of space and straight tree arrangement.
I didn't say I don't appreciate his time, I'm saying it's best you do this kind of stuff less hasty, with more respect. So, if he laughs at some of our artists, I am more than allowed to criticize him for that. It's like laughing back at him.

Yeah, I'm triggered because of him laughing of my red map

 

[deepstrasz]

Yeah, I'm triggered because of him laughing of my red map

Well, it is too red

 

[Maxwell]

Well, it is too red

And you too???
Maybe it is, but you know... still some people like it ;D

 

[WolfFarkas]

If you want some feedback for your maps check out this video series

E: Maybe I should clarify that its not me reviewing these maps. Its someone from WC3 reddit
Sorry for the stolen rep points

is good to see, that the activity of the site go further out of the Hive, like youtube. Thanks for sharing

Yeah but if you are to be methodical, originality and improvement will stagnate to repetitive maps. I am saying what he said is debatable. I mean you have the protection/advantage of the long ramps but that comes with the cost of lack of space and straight tree arrangement.
I didn't say I don't appreciate his time, I'm saying it's best you do this kind of stuff less hasty, with more respect. So, if he laughs at some of our artists, I am more than allowed to criticize him for that. It's like laughing back at him.

agree

it was nice to hear him when he was serius and explaining cool stuff, for example how the blademaster can kill you in choke points or the towers positions,

also drinking beer while studying maps won´t help.
his statement: "I tend to get drunk fast"

Yeah, I'm triggered because of him laughing of my red map

Well, it is too red

1:15 there are green stuff too.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

Yeah but if you are to be methodical, originality and improvement will stagnate to repetitive maps. I am saying what he said is debatable. I mean you have the protection/advantage of the long ramps but that comes with the cost of lack of space and straight tree arrangement.
I didn't say I don't appreciate his time, I'm saying it's best you do this kind of stuff less hasty, with more respect. So, if he laughs at some of our artists, I am more than allowed to criticize him for that. It's like laughing back at him.

I don't feel like the Eye for an Eye policy is a healthy choice. Moreover, he laughs at certain issues or problems with the map, not the creators themselves - I think he showed a considerable amount of respect to every single one of the contestants simply by devoting his time and providing thorough feedback to every one of the creators.

Also, I feel like bluntly honest criticism is something that's sometimes (but not always) missing from Hive - the environment here is very friendly, but maps sometimes need an opinion of someone from outside - a Back2Warcraft veteran, for example.

As for the repetiveness being a result of such feedback, I agree that if we were to strictly follow the way that previous Melee maps were made, we wouldn't have made any progress; however, this guys seems to accept most of the innovations (even though it's visible that it's unusual to him) as long as they're not over the top.

Of course he shouldn't be the only person one should look up to when creating a map, but I find his arguments convincing and I wholeheartedly agree with the issue with my map he pointed out.

 

[The Panda]

@Naze Has already cleaned the thread please talk about something else instead of the voting issue, please.

 

[WolfFarkas]

@Naze Has already cleaned the thread please talk about something else instead of the voting issue, please.

in all the 5th page we actually are talking about a youtube video reviewing the melee contest maps

if you don´t tag people or quote the comment is like you are speaking to the last user who posted, or posting with miss time.

by the way somebody explain me, it is bad the tavern in the center?, because the guy who made the review in youtube didn´t llike the tavern in the center.
(Something like "don´t put the tavern in the center and laugh)

is because is too clasic ? or there is a major issue? like racial balance for the night elves?

 

[The Panda]

in all the 5th page we actually are talking about a youtube video reviewing the melee contest maps

if you don´t tag people or quote the comment is like you are speaking to the last user who posted, or posting with miss time.

by the way somebody explain me, it is bad the tavern in the center?, because the guy who made the review in youtube didn´t llike the tavern in the center.
(Something like "don´t put the tavern in the center and laugh)

is because is too clasic ? or there is a major issue? like racial balance for the night elves?

Im just stating information for everyone thats all im saying.

 

[WolfFarkas]

Im just stating information for everyone thats all im saying.

Oh I see, my mistake, have my apology.

of course of course 100% agree with you, thats what I am trying to do, to estimulate the talk here about interesting stuff, part of this youtube review chit chat helps to bury that old and unpleasent history.

Video reviews are quite usefull when they are done, much more nice to see and follow than read tons of walls of texts.
I liked the all the map view in the review, it helps to see the posible gameplay without playing. That can be done with images too, less effort than a full large video.

I think what is missing is a tutorial with overall layouts maps (not all of them of course, but use them to display and teach the differents posibilities and maybe, try to develop new ones) because wall of text can be never ending and boring. Also it could be usefull to teach the common mistakes.

Something that called my atention was the use of random neutrals buildings, that can change the game play a lot, but it has to be carefully used to avoid undesired combinations.

by the way could you see some of the youtube video? what do you think?

 

[MysteryMaze]

The review for each map was short yet clear enough to point out some major issues, some of which might be pretty detrimental.

Again I realized how laborsome it is to look at all 30 maps, considering the duration of whole video. Real judges will have to be even more thorough in their map reviews and they will also have to score each.

 

[WolfFarkas]

The review for each map was short yet clear enough to point out some major issues, some of which might be pretty detrimental.

Again I realized how laborsome it is to look at all 30 maps, considering the duration of whole video. Real judges will have to be even more thorough in their map reviews and they will also have to score each.

Yes it was 3 part video, 48:36 the first part, 18.03 the second part and 50:00 the third part, didn´t see it complete,

edit:

another comentary that called my atention from him was that " bridges are very hard to master"
Well yes they are chokepoints, and could be tower exploited, but I am thinking if they are really that hard?

 

[MysteryMaze]

Yes it was 3 part video, 48:36 the first part, 18.03 the second part and 50:00 the third part, didn´t see it complete,

I also didn't sit through the whole review due to time constraints. I think I should save it for later

 

[The Panda]

@Ragnaros17 I watched it for couple minutes, but every map is gonna have problems there's not a map out there that doesn't have 1 problem so I don't know I think I did good that's all that matters at this point.

 

[Chaosy]

*Insert butthurt comment*

 

[WolfFarkas]

@Ragnaros17 I watched it for couple minutes, but every map is gonna have problems there's not a map out there that doesn't have 1 problem so I don't know I think I did good that's all that matters at this point.

Yes perfection is imposible, but I think since this guy made this video, and it concern us because is from the map contest, we should talk between us because, as comunity, and maybe we can also manifest liking or dis-liking this kind of material.
For example we could go youtube and ask him friendly to not laugh when he review Hive maps because it is not serius for a reviewer, is not respectfull for the mappers, and is harder to follow his ideas.

But some things he marked are good to hear them to learn or try to learn, as Twojstarjakcie (I hope I write it well). Feedback is important and if comes from outsiders or people who still plays WC3, I think it is a good oportunity to learn.
I think mostly the people who plays as pro, they do not do melee maps, they play
And the mappers, my case, only played against AI (wich is the same as nothing), I have more experience with doodads tricks than other thing

is hard to have the time for map and play.

So it seems to me there is a missing comunication between the mapper and the pro player, I think.
I think reading some tutorials, doesn´t give a bast experience of a pro melee player.

*Insert butthurt comment*

I am not following you, that joke goes for me?? I can guess it does, it seems related with the last post.
you should tag me, I like jokes.