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Zero Tolerance

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Ralle

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Hmmm.. I don’t know what to say, I am speechless at what has been going on lately, but I will try anyway. So please bare with me fellow moose as I make a long winded post.

Q) Users have been concerned about the bannings and feel that they are they were pointless.
A) Alright let me take time to address this concern first, I will be addressing many of them throughout this announcement, this all started when I demoted Rui, I had noticed that something should have been done a while back about some of the other people as well, they were demoted and those that caused dramatic problems were banned, allow me to explain:

There are two types of bans here, a site ban and a chat ban. Users who were banned from the chat, that was done because we needed the chat to be under control, we had constantly asked ex-staff to not discuss private stuff in there or for other members to begin causing drama and harassing other members like this, however it was never planned to ban anyone from the site, until people started creating dozens of threads. I am going to be honest with all of you, while the chat bans will most likely get overturned in the future if you have a light record or none at all (we really needed to calm down and to show them that we still cared about the rules) we will not be overturning the few site bans we have made, those be staying banned for what they have done, those users went above and beyond to cause damage to the site:

Here are the list of users who are perma banned from the site:
leet.firefox
Mr. Bob
Rui
wereguy2

Q) Why did you demote all the good people Ralle?
A) Allow me to answer this one as well, I would like to remind you first of all that, I have final discretion on who is on the staff and that I did not demote users because I felt like it, I had done it because they were honestly detrimental to the site environment and have been for a really long. Allow me to explain:

Rui: This one was really obvious to many of the users, he had been an administrator on a rampage, he had been reported for demoting staff, banning users, global ignoring, and breaking plenty of the sexuality rules, he had been called a homophobe in many of his reports and harassing other people, he did not even use his powers on the people who actually deserved it.

DonDustin: This moderator had been reported in the past and has been considered a troll in power, I had sent him a final warning giving him one more chance, on top of the chances I have given him in the past and asked him not to discuss private staff matters in the chat, shortly after receiving my warning, he proceeded to talk about exactly what I asked him not to do and got himself demoted.

Shamanyouranus: This user has been reported and given many chances in the past, the final straw was when he allowed wereguy2 to post porn and was a part of creating said porn. It was a spiderman.gif for all you naughty people who were interested in knowing.

anarchianbedlam: This user has been reported and given many chances in the past, he had met his own demotion the day he got my warning, I had warned him that this was his last chance and shortly that night after I had gone to bed, he had been caught breaking four of the site rules in the worst way possible: sexuality, vulgar, inappropriate language, harassing.

Q) Ralle, why did you temporary disable the chat? Are you not killing the community!?
A) I. . . what? Killing the community? The chat has been disabled for an indeterminable amount of time because of the following:
The chat has been a medium or a tool during this entire drama, allowing it to be dozens of times worse, and not just this one. I believe that everyone needed a cooling off period, this will give us breathing room in restructuring the staff, because the time spent moderating it, could be used for more productive actions.

Disabling the chat will hardly kill the community, there are about 150-300 users on daily and about 15-30 use it and it’s been the same people for years, the chat is not the site, in fact, it’s just a bonus for users who partake activity in the community. If you miss the chat, I encourage you to go make your own chat in other places of the internet (Some uses already have, go check them out!) until our chat is up and running again.

Q) Ralle, you have been out of the loop for years and have no right to do anything, I disapprove of what you are doing and I want to leave.
A) All of this is partially my fault, I have been out of the loop for so long because I have been busy, working on improving this site and personal matters. I would just like to say that no one has the right to question what I can or cannot do due to my activity on this site. I have always had the same goals in mind since the start of this website and no one has the right to stop me, the intent of creating a clean and friendly environment where users can come mod Warcraft 3, has always been there, it is just a shame that it has taken this long to enforce such intents. Can you imagine what the community might have been like without all this drama over the past few years?

I understand some of you disapprove of what has been going on lately and I understand, you must do what is right and I have to do what I feel is right, if you feel that you want to leave the site for a while or for good, we simply ask that you do not break the site rules to get yourself banned, you may simply just not log in anymore or for our more organized users, we offer that you visit us at Admin Contact where you may request that your account is disabled so you can’t log in, but once you do this it cannot be taken back for a year.

Q) Why The Dark Wizard?
A) Why TDW? Well, remember the other announcement I had made about the staff being blind and the staff ignoring the actions of others because they were friends or got emotionally attached and put friendships above the site? Remember that? I had stated that I brought The Dark Wizard in who is a good personal friend of mine and I required a neutral third party that would call it as he sees it and would put the site’s interests above all else. His guidance and advice have been invaluable throughout all of this and I have asked him to remain on the staff (He was only going to stay till his job was done, which was helping me clean up) and he has agreed and will not be going anywhere any time soon, so please stop questioning me about this, last time I checked I was allowed to bring anyone on the staff, and frankly this was highly needed.

Q) Ralle, why did this happen so quickly?
A) This was something that needed to happen a long time ago but if I had the chance I would have started this a while back and had done it over the course of time, that was the intentional plan, however from the moment I demoted Rui, my hand had been forced and people made it so that action had to be taken now, so waiting any longer would have just been detrimental to the site. I believed that the ex staff members in question would have just accepted the warnings in peace and we would have moved on with our lives, unfortunately as you all can see this was not the case.

Q) Ralle, why don’t you give certain people the chance to undo their ban, like Mr. Bob? Sure they may have been posting porn and harassing/trolling for years but who cares? They make wonderful resources!
A) See, I find that highly disturbing that people would even think like that, the price for having the quality of resources from members like Mr. Bob is too expensive and I will not be paying it. I would rather have a small community and some resources, than people like him who make some great resources, but because of that they think they are immune to the site rules.

Anyone who is leaving the site for good, may delete all their resources if they so choose, or anyone could delete them any way at any time, not just because you are leaving. You own your own own artwork/models. We don’t want your resources here if it means we have to look away every time you break a rule, even if you create the most beautiful resource ever, you are not immune to the rules, this also counts for donations and other services you may have performed for this site. Nothing here gives you immunity.

A few sentences above I said this but I will say this again, for those who were shocked at what you just read: Yes I prefer to have a small community that is kind and have mediocre resources than a large community that scares away new members and hinder the process of growth, this is not the type of community I want to be associated with. I will not be stopping in my efforts to continue making this a clean/friendly community and upholding the dreams and values I originally had in mind when I first created this website. So if you refuse to accept that, I just ask that you don’t get yourself purposely banned and just leave quietly. Oh and if you ask me if I’m sure about this, one more time I will say yes, I am super sure that I would rather have every one leave before I keep putting up with this.

Q) Something something banning for saying somebody’s name..?
A) Alright not that it matters anyway because the chat has been disabled but I still wanted to clarify, back when the chat was active that we did not ban people for just mentioning an Ex Staff member’s name. Those are complete lies and rumors created by users who just want to cause drama, I have sat there watching people mention some of the Ex staff members and how they were missed etc, and that is fine, what people were banned for was the fact that some of them instead of keeping it civil, started causing drama, stating how ex staff members, sucked, or how we sucked but with a lot more violence. After we had asked members constantly not to do that.

Q) Why don’t you allow me to protest, you evil dictator?
Recently users who don’t understand or want to acknowledge that the site is changing from what they used to know, began spamming this all over the site, to prevent more of you spamming this, here is what was posted in one organized collection, (warning some of this may be a bit offensive):

http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/a.png
http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/b.png
http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/c.png
http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/d.png
http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/e.png

We understand that some people may have been afraid of the changes but what had happened above was not the correct way of expressing those fears and concerns, if anything that made things worse.

Q) Alright, I’m one of the members who is staying and is glad this is all happening, even if a bit abruptly but ultimately for the best, I do have one concern though, when are we going to hear about this rumored staff restructuring and new promotions, I heard that certain roles on the will also be outdated as the system is improved.
A) It is not a rumor, we are actually updating the way the staff functions however I don’t have much information to provide in this announcement, over the course of the following week, our community moderator will begin to provide information and keep people in the loop of what is going on, so watch out for his threads because he will be explaining all that!

Q) Do you regret what has happened?
A) No, this was coming for a really long time.

Q) Why is the thread called Zero Tolerance?
A) That means that the site is temporarily in Zero Tolerance mode, that means that we will keep banning people (not permanently unless they need it) without warning until we get things under control, we should not have to address any misconduct due to all the announcements we made, so we are to believe that any misconduct made after these announcements was done on purpose. If you feel that you don’t understand why you got picked up by ZT mode, please visit us at Admin Contact and we will review your case with you(Banned users can see AC) however there is a very high chance that we are not wrong in your banning because ZT mode will be very careful. Just don’t be shocked if you get temp banned(or if your offense was bad enough, perm banned) without a warning.

Q) When is Zero Tolerance going to end?
A) ZT will be disabled in the foreseeable future once everything is under control and once that happens, we will return to giving warnings first instead of skipping straight to the ban (There are temp bans and if the offense is bad enough a perm ban).

Now that I have addressed everyone’s questions and concerns, I would like to add a personal note here of feeling. I would like to thank everyone who has been cooperating with us during this entire ordeal, that has been very helpful to us and you can’t even begin to comprehend how grateful I am and how happy this support has made me and the staff. Thank again. I also would like to thank the users who have left/got demoted/banned for all their positive contributions to the site over the years.

~Keep on Mooseing,
Ralle

PS: All discussion of the chat being disabled and things from this should remain in this thread, we will be making an effort to keep this thread open and instead of closing it, we will be cleaning it up as needed. However we still hold the right to close it if it gets out of hand.

PSS: Users who spread the discussion outside of this thread in regards to the chat and stuff mentioned here will receive a one week temp ban, that is why we are leaving this thread open so it all happens in one organized location.

PSS: You are permitted to discuss anything you want here in regards to these topics, mourn what has happened, be thankful, or just express your opinion, but the moment you go off topic it will be deleted. If it happens to be offensive, it will be treated in accordance with the Zero Tolerance policy.
 
Alright, I have one question for you:

Why did you disable Chat? You have well working Chat moderators, you just recently promoted VK, and TDW is one aswell. They, or even Kael alone, would be sufficient to keep Chat in order!
This was the ONLY feature that I actually enjoyed in the last few days, everything else was too frustrating to even bother about.

I also understand that you want to pretty much COMPLETELY want to restructure the whole site, but you HAVE to do it rationally!
I assume it's in your best interest that you keep most of THIS community? So you have to take their feelings into account!
Not doing so will earn you a Hive 2.0 with pretty much no community LEFT!
 
Level 9
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237
Alright, I have one question for you:

Why did you disable Chat? You have well working Chat moderators, you just recently promoted VK, and TDW is one aswell. They, or even Kael alone, would be sufficient to keep Chat in order!
This was the ONLY feature that I actually enjoyed in the last few days, everything else was too frustrating to even bother about.

I also understand that you want to pretty much COMPLETELY want to restructure the whole site, but you HAVE to do it rationally!
I assume it's in your best interest that you keep most of THIS community? So you have to take their feelings into account!
Not doing so will earn you a Hive 2.0 with pretty much no community LEFT!

Ralle stated why he disabled the chat and that he prefers a smaller community if that is what it takes.
 
Level 20
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Messages
2,999
...I'm gob-smacked, truly. But not in a bad way.
I understand some of these choices must've been very hard to make but it's incredible to see an admin out there who will actually put his site and its community before its popularity and content. It's regrettable that it had to come to this, but you're right... It really did need to be done, sooner or later.

EDIT: As for the chat, remember that Moderators (and admins) do need to sleep too... No matter how many staff you have they'll likely be a time when it's unmoderated and open to turmoil.
 
Level 37
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Aug 14, 2006
Messages
7,601
The world moves on just like the staff comes and goes, this you must accept.

What I've heard that some members of the site was banned or title was removed without saying anything. I think we all should be informed before this happens why and if possible told what's wrong and where you can improve yourself.

In situations like this people usually overreact. We can all calm down and talk this over.

However, if you ask my opinion about the case I see this as a positive thing that the staff changes.
 
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Level 14
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On another note, ralle i agree with you and am here to support you and help out if you need it.

To the other users: I have experienced/witnessed some of the ill actions of the other users listed on the ban/demoted lists.

These resignations are leaving the staff very short handed at the moment and its unfortunate to see some of them go. It's not ralle's fault, its the abusive nature of the staff without his supervision for a while. He had to do it, it was not a choice and i support him for doing so.
 
Level 9
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Messages
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TDW, I wasn't sure if that was really you or just someone with a really similar name. It's been a long time! Hope all is well buddy.

I still pop on here from time to time. I haven't been "active" since my computer committed suicide though. Maybe one day when I get something new I'll be back. When there's a WC4 ;)

Everything is going well. . . . well .. as well as well can be(too many wells!)

Just helping Ralle here. I hope everything is going also going well for you :)!
 
Level 30
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I'm sure, in time, those banned will be allowed to come back. As has it always been. You really shouldn't worry about your friends. I have been banned for countless times and I'm still here.
Just give Ralle some time to think, really.
This whole "protesting" idea some of the members seem to have, is also utter nonsense, just saying. What good will come out of that, really?
You're making this worse than it is. I've been on this site for long enough to be able to say safely that this is a temporary thing.

As for the demotions: who really gives a damn? Does it matter to us if a moderator is replaced? Just for the record, the follow-up moderator won't be a total incompetent retard. Ralle actually puts thought into the staff.
 
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Alright... So supposedly, we are allowed to discuss what you wrote in this thread? You WON'T be banning us for stating our opinion? You won't be suppressing our free speech rights? Okay then, here goes...

Rui: This one was really obvious to many of the users, he had been an administrator on a rampage, he had been reported for demoting staff, banning users, global ignoring, and breaking plenty of the sexuality rules, he had been called a homophobe in many of his reports and harassing other people, he did not even use his powers on the people who actually deserved it.

Absolutely everything in here is wrong. I was in decent ties with Rui before he got banned, and I currently have his contact information, and I must say that either your information is wrong(won't surprise me; you're almost never here, you're always busy, you have no idea what's going on in your own site) or you are vastly exaggerating Rui's so-called 'rampage'. Rui globally ignored ONE user - Mr. Bob - For reasons he, as an admin, thought were correct at the time. Mr. Bob was obviously later unignored, and therefore the problem was resolved. And that's not even to mention that you, yourself, banned Mr. Bob just now - So how can you claim that Rui was detrimental to the community?
Rui never banned anyone, either; The four bans that are associated with him by the community were executed by Archian, not Rui.
As for the mods he demoted: azlier was doing nothing in his section. Nothing at all. His last post there was in 2011. BlinkBoy was simply inactive; He hasn't been seen for a while and didn't moderate anything either. I suppose that I can't give a valid reason for Pyramidhe@d's demoting, but that would be just ONE transgression in this so-called "rampage". I'll let you know, Ralle, that Rui is personally hurt by your actions against him. He considered the Hive a "second home", and he trusted and liked you. Your actions made him deeply confused and saddened. To quote him: "I feel miserable because my life feels like several books where things never get to be explained thoroughly and decently".


DonDustin: This moderator had been reported in the past and has been considered a troll in power, I had sent him a final warning giving him one more chance, on top of the chances I have given him in the past and asked him not to discuss private staff matters in the chat, shortly after receiving my warning, he proceeded to talk about exactly what I asked him not to do and got himself demoted.

Don's case I think I should be able to defend much more easily. Don and I were talking to eachother as part of a gaming group on Skype for a year or so now, and I know him quite a bit. Don is a quiet guy who only talks when there really is a need to talk. He has never "trolled", and there is no proof of him trolling(if there is: please present it, both him and I would like to see it). As far as Don knows, he was reported maybe twice, and in both occasions, the situation happened years ago. It's true that he overreacted out of panic and frustration when you threatened him(yes, threatened, because he didn't do ANYTHING wrong before you suddenly brought up some old reports and whatnot against him and said you'll demote him), but you didn't give him neither a chance to calm down and explain himself, nor a chance to defend himself in any way at all. You just instantly demoted him, no questions asked, no investigation, no checking your own damn evidence. Don was an EXCELLENT model moderator, who was very active within his section, clearing out tons of pending models in a matter of minutes. He is a capable artist and he knows what he's doing. Demoting both him and anarchianbedlam leaves only Frankster alone to handle the model section; I'm not saying he's incapable of doing that, but I'm certain it'll be a bit harder for him now that there's no one around to help him handle the stress. If only you, Ralle, were more involved within your own damn site, if only you knew your members better, if only you knew what was going on, maybe then you would have been qualified to demote people for no reason. What makes a site good is it's community, not it's leadership.

anarchianbedlam: This user has been reported and given many chances in the past, he had met his own demotion the day he got my warning, I had warned him that this was his last chance and shortly that night after I had gone to bed, he had been caught breaking four of the site rules in the worst way possible: sexuality, vulgar, inappropriate language, harassing.
It is true that maybe a year or two ago, anarchianbedlam may have stirred up some drama within(mainly) the chat, along with a few other members(myself included, as far as I remember). But recently? Recently anarchianbedlam has done nothing wrong. "Vulgar, inappropriate language" is part of the everyday norm here on the Hive: Maybe if you spent more time in the chat, you would know this. Yes, we, your community, use cuss words often. Yes, we insult eachother, both jokingly and seriously. Yes, even the new members and the 13-year-olds. No, it's NOT driving anyone out. The Hive was never a "family friendly" site - I don't suppose YOU envision it as the kind of site that 40 year old mothers and 10 year olds children visit to pass the time? I surely hope not, because if you do, something is fundamentally wrong with your understanding of things.

Disabling the chat will hardly kill the community, there are about 150-300 users on daily and about 15-30 use it and it’s been the same people for years, the chat is not the site, in fact, it’s just a bonus for users who partake activity in the community. If you miss the chat, I encourage you to go make your own chat in other places of the internet (Some uses already have, go check them out!) until our chat is up and running again.
The chat is crucial for the current community to sustain itself. The 150-300 users who log in are 5-post people who only come here to post their ub3r 1337 h4x c00l narut0 bleach maps, or comment on models with such amazing constructive criticism as "Nice!" or "5\5". The core community are the people who frequent the chat and discuss stuff, as well as the older and more 'famous' members. Disabling the chat for no good reason(your reasoning is wrong, see commenters above) will only harm that core community, even more than you've already done by banning or demoting many of it's core members.

Can you imagine what the community might have been like without all this drama over the past few years?
YES. It would've been a horribly boring community with little to no activity beyond "5\5! I like!" and "plz maek me narut0 modelz plz"(and the like). People come here not only to mod WC3, but also because they have friends and ties here. Friends and ties that you are actively breaking by banning members for no good reason.
And yes, I do believe you've been out of the loop for too long, and therefore your judgement is absolutely invalid. The drama only adds to the site, so long as everything remains friendly and reasonable. It fixes itself after a while, anyway, and no harm is usually done.

Well, remember the other announcement I had made about the staff being blind and the staff ignoring the actions of others because they were friends or got emotionally attached and put friendships above the site? Remember that?
Oh, thank god, you finally realized that! You finally understood that you CAN'T put your friends and family into power! Wow, I was really worrying because of that Dark Wizard fellow being your friend and...

I brought The Dark Wizard in who is a good personal friend of mine and I required a neutral third party that would call it as he sees it and would put the site’s interests above all else.
WHAT THE *BEEEEEEEP*. You JUST SAID that it's hard to put the site in priority over your friends... You JUST SAID that getting emotionally attached and putting friendships over the site is a big issue with your staff... YOU JUST SAID THAT. And besides, good personal friend = neutral third party? That doesn't compute well. AT ALL. Putting a friend of yours into position will screw the site over as you care more about your friendship and less about how many innocent people he is randomly banning.

Ralle, why don’t you give certain people the chance to undo their ban, like Mr. Bob? Sure they may have been posting porn and harassing/trolling for years but who cares? They make wonderful resources!

Why, yes, yes, of course! I am certain that the ONLY reason people want Mr. Bob and other good folks unbanned is because of their amazing resources! Because other than making models, all Mr. Bob did was post porn in chat and troll other people like it was his God-sent duty.

I'm not going to bother much with this statement. Everything you just said is plain stupid. Mr. Bob didn't make models for years now. People liked him because he was a member of the core community. Because without him, the site and chat would be boring, and people would stop visiting. Because he is an interesting person and because he is fun to talk with. NOT because he made some "cool resources".
And ffs, Ralle, seriously? What makes you think Mr. Bob constantly "posted porn and harassed\trolled users"? Some 2009 reports? A member with 10 posts whining because Mr. Bob called him a noob?

Anyone who is leaving the site for good, may delete all their resources if they so choose, or anyone could delete them any way at any time, not just because you are leaving.

Oh yeah? Because that worked so well for Rui, what with you un-deleting the thread he deleted with the reasoning of "Technically, everything on this site is my property". (Which is incorrect, btw: All .MDX, .BLP, .W3X and other Warcraft III and Starcraft II related formats legally belong to Blizzard. And I wasn't aware that posting text in a website turns the author's mental property into your own property?)

You own your own own artwork/models.

Self contradicting is great, isn't it? Did you re-remove Rui's thread to cover up for your mistake? Doesn't matter, though, since you and Vengeancekael seem to have moved most of Rui's work into your own thread anyhow. Severe ties with Rui I guess?

Alright not that it matters anyway because the chat has been disabled but I still wanted to clarify, back when the chat was active that we did not ban people for just mentioning an Ex Staff member’s name. Those are complete lies and rumors created by users who just want to cause drama, I have sat there watching people mention some of the Ex staff members and how they were missed etc, and that is fine, what people were banned for was the fact that some of them instead of keeping it civil, started causing drama, stating how ex staff members, sucked, or how we sucked but with a lot more violence. After we had asked members constantly not to do that.
You PERMANENTLY banned people as soon as they brought up anything that was recently happening. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was a day, week or a few hours ban, but you PERMANENTLY, and I repeat, PERMANENTLY banned people for saying stuff like "What's going on with Rui? He was a good mod, why was he banned?". In one occasion, you even banned Joe-black-5 for doing his god-damn job. Your "Dark Wizard" was advertising his RP site, and Joe told him not to, because it is against the rules. The result? "SHUT UP I DO WHAT I WANT! PERMABANNED!". Your OWN. GOD-DAMN. RULES.

We understand that some people may have been afraid of the changes but what had happened above was not the correct way of expressing those fears and concerns, if anything that made things worse.

Then what IS the correct way of expressing our concerns about how much you're screwing up the site? That wasn't "spam", that was revolution, rebellion. They were telling you to stop before you made matters worse. By removing their threads and posts(there were many more that you did not bring up here) and banning them, you made matters WAY worse.
 

Dr Super Good

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Oh I thought I was the only person unable to use chat. That seems more fair now, thanks for clearing that up.

I was demoted due to a slight personality clash with Ralle. Sometimes I did stuff which was meant to be funny (a bit of humour is always good) but Ralle took it the wrong way thinking I was being serious and being quite nasty. The latest demotion was because I was one of Rui's moderators (Rui over turned my demotion from before). It is only logical that I be removed as there is no longer any administrator willing to take responsibility for me.

The Dark Wizard is a nice guy who I have known for a long time now. He has done several activities over the years which have shown major success. These range from running a clan which made several well made but uncommon maps to even running dedicated game servers for various non-WarCraft III games. I advise people give him a chance. Many of the rumours about him are false and caused by individuals who (like Ralle apparently did at times) he falsely trusted in major positions.

Rui is a nice person but, like me, he suffered a personality clash with Ralle. I can understand his actions as he probably feels horribly mistreated like I did when similar events happened to me. Ralle really should not have treated us like he did as we were among his most loyal staff members and he should understand that betrayal is quite a serious thing to do among humans. In the end I am not Rui and although we have both been treated rather poorly, I will respond by not taking revenge but instead taking pity over people's poor choices and try and move on. I have always tried to be professional in approach and although that did slip in times when I was young and inexperienced I will still try and remain so, even if in future it is no longer with this site.

Rui was among the oldest moderators on the site and did not disserve to be thrown out over trivial yet correctable reasons after his years of dedicated service. Likewise I was one of the most promising and trustworthy moderators on this site with no major offense ever and did not disserve to be thrown out over reasons of lack of trust for something stupid.

Ralle, I hope you have made the right decision as you probably have lost two of the best moderators you will ever be able to find.
 
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Alright... So supposedly, we are allowed to discuss what you wrote in this thread? You WON'T be banning us for stating our opinion? You won't be suppressing our free speech rights? Okay then, here goes...



Absolutely everything in here is wrong. I was in decent ties with Rui before he got banned, and I currently have his contact information, and I must say that either your information is wrong(won't surprise me; you're almost never here, you're always busy, you have no idea what's going on in your own site) or you are vastly exaggerating Rui's so-called 'rampage'. Rui globally ignored ONE user - Mr. Bob - For reasons he, as an admin, thought were correct at the time. Mr. Bob was obviously later unignored, and therefore the problem was resolved. And that's not even to mention that you, yourself, banned Mr. Bob just now - So how can you claim that Rui was detrimental to the community?
Rui never banned anyone, either; The four bans that are associated with him by the community were executed by Archian, not Rui.
As for the mods he demoted: azlier was doing nothing in his section. Nothing at all. His last post there was in 2011. BlinkBoy was simply inactive; He hasn't been seen for a while and didn't moderate anything either. I suppose that I can't give a valid reason for Pyramidhe@d's demoting, but that would be just ONE transgression in this so-called "rampage". I'll let you know, Ralle, that Rui is personally hurt by your actions against him. He considered the Hive a "second home", and he trusted and liked you. Your actions made him deeply confused and saddened. To quote him: "I feel miserable because my life feels like several books where things never get to be explained thoroughly and decently".




Don's case I think I should be able to defend much more easily. Don and I were talking to eachother as part of a gaming group on Skype for a year or so now, and I know him quite a bit. Don is a quiet guy who only talks when there really is a need to talk. He has never "trolled", and there is no proof of him trolling(if there is: please present it, both him and I would like to see it). As far as Don knows, he was reported maybe twice, and in both occasions, the situation happened years ago. It's true that he overreacted out of panic and frustration when you threatened him(yes, threatened, because he didn't do ANYTHING wrong before you suddenly brought up some old reports and whatnot against him and said you'll demote him), but you didn't give him neither a chance to calm down and explain himself, nor a chance to defend himself in any way at all. You just instantly demoted him, no questions asked, no investigation, no checking your own damn evidence. Don was an EXCELLENT model moderator, who was very active within his section, clearing out tons of pending models in a matter of minutes. He is a capable artist and he knows what he's doing. Demoting both him and anarchianbedlam leaves only Frankster alone to handle the model section; I'm not saying he's incapable of doing that, but I'm certain it'll be a bit harder for him now that there's no one around to help him handle the stress. If only you, Ralle, were more involved within your own damn site, if only you knew your members better, if only you knew what was going on, maybe then you would have been qualified to demote people for no reason. What makes a site good is it's community, not it's leadership.


It is true that maybe a year or two ago, anarchianbedlam may have stirred up some drama within(mainly) the chat, along with a few other members(myself included, as far as I remember). But recently? Recently anarchianbedlam has done nothing wrong. "Vulgar, inappropriate language" is part of the everyday norm here on the Hive: Maybe if you spent more time in the chat, you would know this. Yes, we, your community, use cuss words often. Yes, we insult eachother, both jokingly and seriously. Yes, even the new members and the 13-year-olds. No, it's NOT driving anyone out. The Hive was never a "family friendly" site - I don't suppose YOU envision it as the kind of site that 40 year old mothers and 10 year olds children visit to pass the time? I surely hope not, because if you do, something is fundamentally wrong with your understanding of things.


The chat is crucial for the current community to sustain itself. The 150-300 users who log in are 5-post people who only come here to post their ub3r 1337 h4x c00l narut0 bleach maps, or comment on models with such amazing constructive criticism as "Nice!" or "5\5". The core community are the people who frequent the chat and discuss stuff, as well as the older and more 'famous' members. Disabling the chat for no good reason(your reasoning is wrong, see commenters above) will only harm that core community, even more than you've already done by banning or demoting many of it's core members.


YES. It would've been a horribly boring community with little to no activity beyond "5\5! I like!" and "plz maek me narut0 modelz plz"(and the like). People come here not only to mod WC3, but also because they have friends and ties here. Friends and ties that you are actively breaking by banning members for no good reason.
And yes, I do believe you've been out of the loop for too long, and therefore your judgement is absolutely invalid. The drama only adds to the site, so long as everything remains friendly and reasonable. It fixes itself after a while, anyway, and no harm is usually done.


Oh, thank god, you finally realized that! You finally understood that you CAN'T put your friends and family into power! Wow, I was really worrying because of that Dark Wizard fellow being your friend and...


WHAT THE *BEEEEEEEP*. You JUST SAID that it's hard to put the site in priority over your friends... You JUST SAID that getting emotionally attached and putting friendships over the site is a big issue with your staff... YOU JUST SAID THAT. And besides, good personal friend = neutral third party? That doesn't compute well. AT ALL. Putting a friend of yours into position will screw the site over as you care more about your friendship and less about how many innocent people he is randomly banning.



Why, yes, yes, of course! I am certain that the ONLY reason people want Mr. Bob and other good folks unbanned is because of their amazing resources! Because other than making models, all Mr. Bob did was post porn in chat and troll other people like it was his God-sent duty.

I'm not going to bother much with this statement. Everything you just said is plain stupid. Mr. Bob didn't make models for years now. People liked him because he was a member of the core community. Because without him, the site and chat would be boring, and people would stop visiting. Because he is an interesting person and because he is fun to talk with. NOT because he made some "cool resources".
And ffs, Ralle, seriously? What makes you think Mr. Bob constantly "posted porn and harassed\trolled users"? Some 2009 reports? A member with 10 posts whining because Mr. Bob called him a noob?



Oh yeah? Because that worked so well for Rui, what with you un-deleting the thread he deleted with the reasoning of "Technically, everything on this site is my property". (Which is incorrect, btw: All .MDX, .BLP, .W3X and other Warcraft III and Starcraft II related formats legally belong to Blizzard. And I wasn't aware that posting text in a website turns the author's mental property into your own property?)



Self contradicting is great, isn't it? Did you re-remove Rui's thread to cover up for your mistake? Doesn't matter, though, since you and Vengeancekael seem to have moved most of Rui's work into your own thread anyhow. Severe ties with Rui I guess?


You PERMANENTLY banned people as soon as they brought up anything that was recently happening. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was a day, week or a few hours ban, but you PERMANENTLY, and I repeat, PERMANENTLY banned people for saying stuff like "What's going on with Rui? He was a good mod, why was he banned?". In one occasion, you even banned Joe-black-5 for doing his god-damn job. Your "Dark Wizard" was advertising his RP site, and Joe told him not to, because it is against the rules. The result? "SHUT UP I DO WHAT I WANT! PERMABANNED!". Your OWN. GOD-DAMN. RULES.



Then what IS the correct way of expressing our concerns about how much you're screwing up the site? That wasn't "spam", that was revolution, rebellion. They were telling you to stop before you made matters worse. By removing their threads and posts(there were many more that you did not bring up here) and banning them, you made matters WAY worse.


almost everything said here is completely biased. Things needed to be done to clean up the community. I've dealt with users like that before on an old site i used to run. Some people just don't seem to listen and banning is usually done as a last resort, ralle did not jump right to permanently banning people as his first option, he gave out many warnings to most of them and punished accordingly to their ill actions.
 
Level 16
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
1,345
If I may question the decision of Rui's ban:
I bet the posts of both Ralle and Archian, in "http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/latest-updates-news-101/hive-218918/", were implying that Rui is good. This cannot go with his/her perma ban! I know that he was modifying some of his posts, but now that they were all tranferred to RalleTester, I guess here the ban should end.

Please, do not say it is not to change. If it is wrong, then it has to change.
 
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Level 30
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
3,551
I'm completely positive about this situation.

For a lenghty amount of time, I warned that this is a must. People really do think that their resources/attitude gives them ability to neglect and step on some of the most important rules of our THW.

However, this was not the main issue. It's the fact that other users respect that type of behavior, and go along with it. This has drawn and encouraged even more of such people towards the destruction of entire community. I was away for some time, and when I got back, I had enough to see: the Hive has became a pithole for users neglecting the rules in any way possible. What's worse, the moderation crew seemed to got used to it, and mostly ignored such behavior. Only the most dramatic "cases" got some attention. I am not blaiming the staff, I'm blaming everyone for letting this happen.

It is a perfect time to get back to where we were once: a community, not a forest fire of hatred.
And for that, once again, I support this.
 
Level 26
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
2,651
Ralle said:
DonDustin: This moderator had been reported in the past and has been considered a troll in power, I had sent him a final warning giving him one more chance, on top of the chances I have given him in the past and asked him not to discuss private staff matters in the chat, shortly after receiving my warning, he proceeded to talk about exactly what I asked him not to do and got himself demoted.

first of all a quote from the thw rules:

"Identifying Trolling In Internet slang, a "troll" is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community forum, chat room, with the primary intent to provoke readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. The term "troll" can mean a number of different things, but in essence, a troll is a person who aims to have 'pleasure' at your expense. Trolls aspire to violence, to the level of trouble they can cause in an environment. They want it to kick off. They want to promote antipathetic emotions of disgust and outrage, which morbidly gives them a sense of pleasure.
Trolling are sometimes considered to be the same as flaming, but this may refer to the creation of any content that targets another person."


1. when did I ever troll?? show me evidence.
2. when did you ever have to give me these "chances" you are talking about?? I have just checked my inbox and my oldest pm is from 01-21-2010. Until 3 days ago I did not get any pm from you containing any kind of warning.
3. your so called warning (I'd rather call it accusation) did not contain any word about not being allowed to talk about that pm in the chat room.
let me qoute your pm once more:

"Hello DonDustin

I am contacting you today because over the time of your career on The Hive Workshop, you have been reported, for being rude/power abusing/not handling situations when you are supposed to and instead fueling the fire. This is partially my fault for always being busy but I am back now, and I expect you to behave in accordance with the rules, one more report and you will be demoted without warning but I do hope it won’t come to that because I believe in you.

~Keep on Mooseing,
Ralle"

I don't think that I deserve it in any way after all these years that I worked for you as a models and packs mod.

As a note: if any of the other users here on THW have the impression that I trolled anybody over the years, please tell me, because I really want to know if I was such a bad member.
 
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Level 9
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
237
Alright... So supposedly, we are allowed to discuss what you wrote in this thread? You WON'T be banning us for stating our opinion? You won't be suppressing our free speech rights? Okay then, here goes...



Absolutely everything in here is wrong. I was in decent ties with Rui before he got banned, and I currently have his contact information, and I must say that either your information is wrong(won't surprise me; you're almost never here, you're always busy, you have no idea what's going on in your own site) or you are vastly exaggerating Rui's so-called 'rampage'. Rui globally ignored ONE user - Mr. Bob - For reasons he, as an admin, thought were correct at the time. Mr. Bob was obviously later unignored, and therefore the problem was resolved. And that's not even to mention that you, yourself, banned Mr. Bob just now - So how can you claim that Rui was detrimental to the community?
Rui never banned anyone, either; The four bans that are associated with him by the community were executed by Archian, not Rui.
As for the mods he demoted: azlier was doing nothing in his section. Nothing at all. His last post there was in 2011. BlinkBoy was simply inactive; He hasn't been seen for a while and didn't moderate anything either. I suppose that I can't give a valid reason for Pyramidhe@d's demoting, but that would be just ONE transgression in this so-called "rampage". I'll let you know, Ralle, that Rui is personally hurt by your actions against him. He considered the Hive a "second home", and he trusted and liked you. Your actions made him deeply confused and saddened. To quote him: "I feel miserable because my life feels like several books where things never get to be explained thoroughly and decently".




Don's case I think I should be able to defend much more easily. Don and I were talking to eachother as part of a gaming group on Skype for a year or so now, and I know him quite a bit. Don is a quiet guy who only talks when there really is a need to talk. He has never "trolled", and there is no proof of him trolling(if there is: please present it, both him and I would like to see it). As far as Don knows, he was reported maybe twice, and in both occasions, the situation happened years ago. It's true that he overreacted out of panic and frustration when you threatened him(yes, threatened, because he didn't do ANYTHING wrong before you suddenly brought up some old reports and whatnot against him and said you'll demote him), but you didn't give him neither a chance to calm down and explain himself, nor a chance to defend himself in any way at all. You just instantly demoted him, no questions asked, no investigation, no checking your own damn evidence. Don was an EXCELLENT model moderator, who was very active within his section, clearing out tons of pending models in a matter of minutes. He is a capable artist and he knows what he's doing. Demoting both him and anarchianbedlam leaves only Frankster alone to handle the model section; I'm not saying he's incapable of doing that, but I'm certain it'll be a bit harder for him now that there's no one around to help him handle the stress. If only you, Ralle, were more involved within your own damn site, if only you knew your members better, if only you knew what was going on, maybe then you would have been qualified to demote people for no reason. What makes a site good is it's community, not it's leadership.


It is true that maybe a year or two ago, anarchianbedlam may have stirred up some drama within(mainly) the chat, along with a few other members(myself included, as far as I remember). But recently? Recently anarchianbedlam has done nothing wrong. "Vulgar, inappropriate language" is part of the everyday norm here on the Hive: Maybe if you spent more time in the chat, you would know this. Yes, we, your community, use cuss words often. Yes, we insult eachother, both jokingly and seriously. Yes, even the new members and the 13-year-olds. No, it's NOT driving anyone out. The Hive was never a "family friendly" site - I don't suppose YOU envision it as the kind of site that 40 year old mothers and 10 year olds children visit to pass the time? I surely hope not, because if you do, something is fundamentally wrong with your understanding of things.


The chat is crucial for the current community to sustain itself. The 150-300 users who log in are 5-post people who only come here to post their ub3r 1337 h4x c00l narut0 bleach maps, or comment on models with such amazing constructive criticism as "Nice!" or "5\5". The core community are the people who frequent the chat and discuss stuff, as well as the older and more 'famous' members. Disabling the chat for no good reason(your reasoning is wrong, see commenters above) will only harm that core community, even more than you've already done by banning or demoting many of it's core members.


YES. It would've been a horribly boring community with little to no activity beyond "5\5! I like!" and "plz maek me narut0 modelz plz"(and the like). People come here not only to mod WC3, but also because they have friends and ties here. Friends and ties that you are actively breaking by banning members for no good reason.
And yes, I do believe you've been out of the loop for too long, and therefore your judgement is absolutely invalid. The drama only adds to the site, so long as everything remains friendly and reasonable. It fixes itself after a while, anyway, and no harm is usually done.


Oh, thank god, you finally realized that! You finally understood that you CAN'T put your friends and family into power! Wow, I was really worrying because of that Dark Wizard fellow being your friend and...


WHAT THE *BEEEEEEEP*. You JUST SAID that it's hard to put the site in priority over your friends... You JUST SAID that getting emotionally attached and putting friendships over the site is a big issue with your staff... YOU JUST SAID THAT. And besides, good personal friend = neutral third party? That doesn't compute well. AT ALL. Putting a friend of yours into position will screw the site over as you care more about your friendship and less about how many innocent people he is randomly banning.



Why, yes, yes, of course! I am certain that the ONLY reason people want Mr. Bob and other good folks unbanned is because of their amazing resources! Because other than making models, all Mr. Bob did was post porn in chat and troll other people like it was his God-sent duty.

I'm not going to bother much with this statement. Everything you just said is plain stupid. Mr. Bob didn't make models for years now. People liked him because he was a member of the core community. Because without him, the site and chat would be boring, and people would stop visiting. Because he is an interesting person and because he is fun to talk with. NOT because he made some "cool resources".
And ffs, Ralle, seriously? What makes you think Mr. Bob constantly "posted porn and harassed\trolled users"? Some 2009 reports? A member with 10 posts whining because Mr. Bob called him a noob?



Oh yeah? Because that worked so well for Rui, what with you un-deleting the thread he deleted with the reasoning of "Technically, everything on this site is my property". (Which is incorrect, btw: All .MDX, .BLP, .W3X and other Warcraft III and Starcraft II related formats legally belong to Blizzard. And I wasn't aware that posting text in a website turns the author's mental property into your own property?)



Self contradicting is great, isn't it? Did you re-remove Rui's thread to cover up for your mistake? Doesn't matter, though, since you and Vengeancekael seem to have moved most of Rui's work into your own thread anyhow. Severe ties with Rui I guess?


You PERMANENTLY banned people as soon as they brought up anything that was recently happening. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was a day, week or a few hours ban, but you PERMANENTLY, and I repeat, PERMANENTLY banned people for saying stuff like "What's going on with Rui? He was a good mod, why was he banned?". In one occasion, you even banned Joe-black-5 for doing his god-damn job. Your "Dark Wizard" was advertising his RP site, and Joe told him not to, because it is against the rules. The result? "SHUT UP I DO WHAT I WANT! PERMABANNED!". Your OWN. GOD-DAMN. RULES.



Then what IS the correct way of expressing our concerns about how much you're screwing up the site? That wasn't "spam", that was revolution, rebellion. They were telling you to stop before you made matters worse. By removing their threads and posts(there were many more that you did not bring up here) and banning them, you made matters WAY worse.

My god, I'm going to be honest here you are so completely bias, all you complain about is how you think things should be done and how you feel, Ralle told you exactly how it is and how it is going to be.
 
Level 25
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
2,572
As i do not personally communicate with any of the banned persona's except DSG from time to time to ask for help i gotta bring something up:

You said you need a clear perspective on what is going here on the site and you bring a friend to moderate? I am sorry but all that is going to get is he saying yes to all your points and you saying yes to all his.
I just want more clarification about these 2 contradictive actions Oo

Also, i want to hear from TDW about the chat issue, i mean do you intend to handle all chat users like that?



I sure do hope this doesn't earn me a ban.

Edit:

Also i never met TDW so i have no bias towards him, but that chat picture didn't help at all.
 
Level 9
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
237
@TDW - I am not looking for your input. I am looking for Ralle's response, not yours.

I apologize but you will have to be content with me for the time being. I am now the official community moderator

You state that Ralle is out of his mind for bringing me here, I am the type of person that will call it as I see it, and he really needed that. I don't have a problem with being blunt and honest and I told Ralle what he had to do and and he and the staff remaining staff agreed.
 
Level 48
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
8,416
I am now the official community moderator

...That's exactly my problem with you, Mr. 195 posts who never even visited or care about this site beyond buying it for whatever purpose.

You state that Ralle is out of his mind for bringing me here, I am the type of person that will call it as I see it, and he really needed that.

No, what we're bringing up is how Ralle wanted a clear and neutral perspective, and to that end, he brought YOU - His friend. Completely self-contradictory action.
 
Level 22
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
3,971
I like that those who still offended on chat when they couldn't do elsewhere got a break from the chat too. I am now perfectly fine with the situation. I never cared about anyone since no one cares about me, though I knew Rui from the earliest times and seeing his account reset to 0... I mean one of the Ancients... even I feel a little regret. And for DSG it became clear, the only one that could help thread after thread, so bb sc2 here.

Less and with quality is a good approach - from teams in esports in which I was/still am I know - better be 4-5 good titular players that always take the matches than a mish-mash of all sorts and 50+ like the noob clans.
 
Level 9
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
237
As i do not personally communicate with any of the banned persona's except DSG from time to time to ask for help i gotta bring something up:

You said you need a clear perspective on what is going here on the site and you bring a friend to moderate? I am sorry but all that is going to get is he saying yes to all your points and you saying yes to all his.

I just want more clarification about these 2 contradictive actions Oo

Also, i want to hear from TDW about the chat issue, i mean do you intend to handle all chat users like that?



I sure do hope this doesn't earn me a ban.

The reason why I'm here is because it does not matter how close of friends we are, I will always be honest and tell you when you are doing something wrong, I have a sense of justice and truth and my views were needed. I am the type of person who would always uphold rules, I believe in justice to the dot.

My title is not "Defender of Justice" for nothing.

As for the chat thing, Ralle answered most of that for me, he is tired of the drama on the chat, if it's disabled for a while it will allow us to recollect our thoughts and waste time moderating it, we are still reworking the staff and refilling the positions, that has constantly been interrupted for days because of the chat.


If you have any more questions please do let me know :)!
 
Level 23
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
1,907
The reason why I'm here is because it does not matter how close of friends we are, I will always be honest and tell you when you are doing something wrong, I have a sense of justice and truth and my views were needed. I am the type of person who would always uphold rules, I believe in justice to the dot.

My title is not "Defender of Justice" for nothing.

As for the chat thing, Ralle answered most of that for me, he is tired of the drama on the chat, if it's disabled for a while it will allow us to recollect our thoughts and waste time moderating it, we are still reworking the staff and refilling the positions, that has constantly been interrupted for days because of the chat.


If you have any more questions please do let me know :)!


This is not the Roleplaying Forum of the Hive.
It's rather far from the top of the site unfortunately.
Here's the link: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/roleplaying-370/
 
Level 14
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Messages
1,091
Putting myself in Ralle’s shoes, trying to take the Hive in the direction he wants it to go, it’s the logical next move. The core community is very tumultuous right now. He needs to calm it down in order to prevent unnecessary fallout into the outer community, which is 90% of the site. If the “power struggle” so to speak within the inner community members continues on too long, it can end up ruining the general user experience, resulting in significantly less site traffic, and even worse, stunting the growth of the site. This way, although it’s an extremely “aggressive move”, it can effectively eliminate most of the inner-conflict and prevent it from ruining the user experience. Im not saying I personally agree with the hives direction, but with how Ralle wants to take it, the goal regarding the conflict is simple: The quicker it’s over, the better.

That doesn’t mean that a necessarily agree with a lot of these things. Deolrin's right in the fact that people DO change, the reports from years back shouldn’t have been taken in to account now. They were problems to deal with then. A stricter staff policy (or even a zero-tolerance staff policy if needed) probably should have been implemented more recently, and then the appropriate actions taken in shedding some of the staff.

But overall, my belief is that both sides are acting a bit to short-sighted in their objectives.

~Asomath
 
Level 25
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
2,572
As for the chat thing, Ralle answered most of that for me, he is tired of the drama on the chat, if it's disabled for a while it will allow us to recollect our thoughts and waste time moderating it, we are still reworking the staff and refilling the positions, that has constantly been interrupted for days because of the chat.

Your answer doesn't answer my question tho.

I didn't ask about Ralle, i asked about you.

Why did you act like that? As a person who rarely goes to the chat i would like to know going in there won't give me that kind of a treatment, or for that case, any other user.
 
Level 14
Joined
Nov 20, 2005
Messages
1,156
Come on, who hasn't worked out that Ralle is long gone, and The Dark Wizard has taken over his account? Site gets hacked, and then a mysterious no one out of nowhere gains unlimited power and becomes Ralle's mouthpiece?

Rui is one of your most loyal and best mods, so you ban him.
DSG is one of the few mods you have who actually has a clue and helps people, so you demote him.

So what direction could you possibly want to go in? What are you aiming for? A more involved community? Banning all discussions about the direction of the site rules that out. A less involved, more elitist community? You've explicitly said you're against elitism. So...what? The message is totally contradictory.

It only makes sense when you put in that THW got hacked. Sad way for the site to go.

Damn it Ralle, now I might actually have to get out the defib unit so there's at least one WC3 modding site that isn't dead or mad.
 
Your answer doesn't answer my question tho.

I didn't ask about Ralle, i asked about you.

Why did you act like that? As a person who rarely goes to the chat i would like to know going in there won't give me that kind of a treatment, or for that case, any other user.
If I may answer this one:
TDW pretty much acts as a robot, Ralle's "right arm", if you so will (and yes, that kicks out Archain in that regard).
He does not question his "superior", he acts strictly on his demands.
If Ralle tells him X has to be done, X will be done.
That's also what they expect from each and everyone of us now.
If you don't deal with it, you are no longer welcome.
 
Level 9
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
237
I have a very simple question... will the models submitted by those who were banned still be available?

Only if those users still want it to be available, everyone who is banned or leaves has the right to take down their resources.

I would not mind having chat, just to see what everyone is up to. Atleast in a few weeks from now.

Chat will eventually be back!
 
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Even though I also seem to have some holes in my knowledge for certain things that happened recently or for behaviors that I was absent from the chat to judge, there are certain stuff that have a logical answer.

• "Your "Dark Wizard" was advertising his RP site"

Hiveworkshop is on the same server with RPDom; they are also affiliated (check bottom line of the affiliated sited in the end of this page), so it is not against the rules to post the link to it. It's like telling someone that posting TheHelper.net links is against the rules.

• The delayed bans

The reason why they weren't performed earlier is because enough evidence was required; this regards the "perma-banned" users. For the rest, they voluntarily resigned and it's understandable.

.....

You know what, I won't address specific points that I have an (or no) argument against. This feels like a civil war, but it's just a site for crying out loud. It may have shuttered our little worlds, but that's because we invested too much time in it. I don't even know how you let that go so easily. Storms have been present in many forums, this is a revamp of how things work; apparently, it had to be done with the painful way. If it's going to work, that remains to be seen, but it's too soon to tell.

Let's calm things down a bit, if everyone is asking for questions, new questions will emerge all the time. Your disappointment is imprinted on every sentence you type. No one forces anyone to stay or leave. It really is up to us to figure this out.
 
Level 22
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
3,091
chat bans will most likely get overturned in the future if you have a light record or none at all

Oh god, I'm screwed. xD

Okay, now that I understand the reasons for everyone being demoted/banned... I can say with confidence... WHAT TOOK SO DAMN LONG? I complained for years about trolls on the staff... But ofc, I'm just a douchebag, biased by his own agenda. I really hate when people say this but, I told you so... And why is Frank still on the staff? He's the biggest power abuser on the site, no offense to him... But he'll probably ban me on a whim if he sees this post.

The site has been so weak against trolls, so I really have to stress, why permabans? Trolling has been 100% tolerated by veteran members since I joined the site, even I would partake on occasion. This is a huge policy change, I mean I got 6 months for a Nazi joke... How does a permanent banning suit the situation?

And to Pharoah_, your point is totally illegitimate, the majority of us just want to the see through the progression of the site. And to say, 'for those of you who don't like it, just leave', appalls me, the site would be nothing without the members, and nothing without the mods, you and the other moderators do not solely control the fate of the site, we are group share-holders per-say.
 

Dr Super Good

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The reason why they weren't performed earlier is because enough evidence was required; this regards the "perma-banned" users. For the rest, they voluntarily resigned and it's understandable.
I was clearly fired though. Although I was expecting that since my entire credibility as a moderator was weighed with Rui since the previous fiasco so it is not really a surprise. It taking over a few hours did come as a surprise though since many of the staff were far too happy to get rid of me.
 
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