WoW is officially DEAD

[_lycan]

Blizzard has killed every single piece of Lore they had, and the only ones who could bring some new Lore would be the Pandarens and now that they added them and showed that they had no good Lore, even Warcraft IV looks unrealistic.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8226552/Patch_52_PTR_Patch_Note_Preview-12_21_2012

2 patches in a row already that blizzard just doesn't release any Lore in it.

5.1 didn't even have a trailer.


WoW died when they decided to release forsaken as a useable race, because there was no way to kill the undeads because players would cry that their Character got deleted.


thus they had to use stormwind and kalimdor and use every single kind of lore available to compensate that the most epic part of the wc3 campaign which was Lordaeron was no longer available since you couldn't delete a race from WoW.

 

[Bernkastel]

Just what.

 

[rulerofiron99]

This doesn't really bother me, since I've never considered anything in WoW to be canon.

 

[Kwaliti]

Actually, Mists is sure to be the lore-richest expansion centered around the Alliance-Horde conflict. Pandaria is just there as a truly neutral and contested zone to fuel the fire between the two factions. Almost all of the lore is now distributed through Scenarios and quests. They even hinted at the last expansion's encounter to be

Spoiler

the fall of Garrosh, as every single Horde race is sick of him. Hell, even blood elves are thinking of pulling out of the Horde.

In my opinion, it actually turned into a soap opera.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Could be worse...

 

[rulerofiron99]

blood elves are thinking of pulling out of the Horde

Blood Elves? In my Horde?!

 

[_lycan]

Could be worse...

DSG, diablo 3 as war3 , sc and other not mmorpg's, patches are just released to fix stuff, not to add Lore.

but what do you get when you do release a patch without releasing new Actual content for some months in a game Like WoW, where you can max out your character in like 1 week if you follow a tutorial on internet.

you lose players, you fuck the Lore, and you fuck any possible warcraft 4 or WoW 2.

 

[Bernkastel]

And what do you think they have to lose?

 

[Dr Super Good]

not to add Lore.

Well that is mostly because D3 is still due 2 expansions. They will only be adding content in the form of other things such as PvP or events before then.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Well that is mostly because D3 is still due 2 expansions. They will only be adding content in the form of other things such as PvP or events before then.

Two expansions? I thought it would be just one!?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Two expansions? I thought it would be just one!?

Although one is officially annoucned, nothing stops them announcing another after that is done. Two would be more in line with SC2.

 

[Edhel-dur]

@DSG

You know what, I think D3 will slowly turn into more of an MMO and cater to the WoW player base. As in it will bring more content and stuff to explore.

And I came to the realization, that both WoW and D2 (yes D2) are about exploring, however in WoW you explore the world, and overcome challenges with your character through items, while in D2 you are exploring your character, and you overcome challenges through your skill tree and stat allocation.

And D3 is more like WoW than D2... so I actually think, they will push D3 onward even closer to WoW.

 

[Bernkastel]

To be honest, Diablo 3 is a damn horrible game.

 

[Edhel-dur]

To be honest, Diablo 3 is a damn horrible game.

Don't say that, it's Tabu.

 

[chr2]

For me WoW died in Cataclysm. That's the expansion that caused me to no longer enjoy the game. I've played some of MoP, and it seems great. Sadly, because of Cataclysm, I can't really enjoy it. Personally I feel MoP is the best expansion they ever released, and it's rich with great story and lore.
Also, releasing two patches within a short period of each other doesn't mean that the game is dying. It simply means that the players finished the contentfrom the previous patch quickly. I reckon Blizzard didn't want a large gap with no content, like they had in the end of Cata.

 

[Uncle Fester]

IMO, the last 3 expansions in WoW came to quick after each other. It's also my oppinion that WoW rly went awry after the Cataclysm expansion. Till WotLK the original story line of Warcraft (which was and still is pretty good) was continued, but in Cataclysm the content was just ridiculous. Only add dragons to a phantasy MMORPG? Come on, that's what nearly every game developer does, it's not something special. That aside, the main problem of WoW is that since WotLK, before someone (except the addicted hardecore-players) could explore the features of the new expansion, the new expansion was already out, which meaned that most of the work you had done so far was for nearly nothing. All in all, after WotLK, all you did in WoW was just to lvl up to 85 and gear up your main char for finding a few months later (when the new expansion comes) out, that all of your work and efforts where just for starting over again (except the lvling)......I think they shouldn't have raised the max. lvl above 80 and change the pvp items so much....this only means that you've to play a lot of time for enjoying a good set for a few months and then experiencing again how nice it is to see other guys runnning around with new, easy-to-get-hold-off items, that are better than the hard-earned set you have. all in all, i'm very disappointed from WoW's so-called ''developement''. I didn't even bother to buy mists of pandaria yet, and i'm not rly in the mood for buying it.....it just bothers me more and more to see each time that all the hard (PvP)job was in the end for nothing except starting over again. IMO, Blizzard should rather invest money into the Warcraft movie rather than new WoW-expansions. The movie would certainly find more good criticism than a new add to the already over-expanded game.

 

[Edhel-dur]

For me WoW died in Cataclysm. That's the expansion that caused me to no longer enjoy the game. I've played some of MoP, and it seems great. Sadly, because of Cataclysm, I can't really enjoy it. Personally I feel MoP is the best expansion they ever released, and it's rich with great story and lore.
Also, releasing two patches within a short period of each other doesn't mean that the game is dying. It simply means that the players finished the contentfrom the previous patch quickly. I reckon Blizzard didn't want a large gap with no content, like they had in the end of Cata.

And end of TBC.

 

[Justicebringer]

My only problem is that my server is extincted.My pro
arena player friends is gone.
I dont want to pay 10000 gold/char for transfer.
Also im upseted of boosting alts from lvl1.
Oh and my favorite class: Rogue is broken.

 

[Edhel-dur]

^ I just read your name JustinBieber.

 

[I3lackDeath]

In my opinion, it actually turned into a soap opera.

This pins it down for me. I never played WoW myself, as I find it to be way too much actual work, but the storylines were interesting nonetheless.
They pretty much lost me though when they killed off Arthas.

Blizzard still has much left to play with, but I am sure they will manage to get the worst out of it, unfortunately.
The show (flow of money) must go on, no matter the price, eh?

 

[Phraz]

The European community became a suppurating sack of shit thanks to Cataclysm (sure lived up to its name) and that's why I ended up flying off the handle and cancelled my subscription.

The content wasn't all THAT bad though, I liked how the difficulty went through the roof *cough*HC Firelands*cough*

WoW is not dead so long as there are people playing it.

 

[Edhel-dur]

This pins it down for me. I never played WoW myself, as I find it to be way too much actual work, but the storylines were interesting nonetheless.
They pretty much lost me though when they killed off Arthas.

Blizzard still has much left to play with, but I am sure they will manage to get the worst out of it, unfortunately.
The show (flow of money) must go on, no matter the price, eh?

Chris Metzen itself said that he is amazed just how much story they managed to sell in Wc3.

In TBC they managed to end many story threads, with the death of Illidan, Vashj, Kael, Magtheridon. Currently they also found closure for Maiev it seems, as she never appeared. Than came WotLK, where they killed Anub'Arak and Arthas/The Lich King. And that right there, is 75% of Wc3 story characters.

Who's left? Thrall? Furion? Tyrande? They didn't use Tyrande at all. And all these are do-gooders, they exist only as an answer, a reaction to a threat. They themselves do not lead anything. They themselves do not start anything, they are just reactions to threats. Threat arises, better call Thrall, Furion and Tyrande.

Sure Sylvannas is left, she had some part to play in Cataclysm (Worgen starting area), but that's about it.

I would so much love to see these characters be the actual main characters of the world. See cut-scenes on how these characters change the story. To see their ideals. There is some of this but mostly amongst the characters from outside the Warcraft 3, like Garrosh, Varyan and Rhonin in WotLK. And than the 5 Dragon Aspects in Cataclysm.

I don't think that Deathwing itself was the issue with Cataclysm, but Metzen... no offense... but he is so old in terms of age, he should be so experienced in this...and he is... but when you look at the direction of the Warcraft story, you clearly see anime/manga and soap opera elements. No characters to back up the decisions.

Blizz order of thought about the storyline is "1 + 1 needs to equal to 2, so who do we have? we have thrall + garrosh needs to equal to garrosh warchief... okay... let's change/make both thrall, garrosh and circumstancs in order to make garrosh leader", and this isn't good.

What I would have loved to see is this "1+1 = 2, we have thrall, we have garrosh, we dont change anything about them... they represent certain character types, are they a match in order to make garrosh the warchief? Yes or No?" simple as that.

Two TV shows do this perfectly or almost perfectly in my opinion, and those are 'The Simpsons' and 'Grey's Anatomy'.

And this is what I would have loved from WoW storyline, a clash of characters, of personalities, which produce realistic character goals, ambitions and results. They did that a little with Varimathras, he 'killed' his own brothers, why wouldn't he betray the woman who forced him into it.

But characters just seem a means to an end. And for me characters are the end, and the action, the interaction are means to strengthen the characters themselves, and mature them.

 

[chr2]

Chris Metzen itself said that he is amazed just how much story they managed to sell in Wc3.

In TBC they managed to end many story threads, with the death of Illidan, Vashj, Kael, Magtheridon. Currently they also found closure for Maiev it seems, as she never appeared. Than came WotLK, where they killed Anub'Arak and Arthas/The Lich King. And that right there, is 75% of Wc3 story characters.

Who's left? Thrall? Furion? Tyrande? They didn't use Tyrande at all. And all these are do-gooders, they exist only as an answer, a reaction to a threat. They themselves do not lead anything. They themselves do not start anything, they are just reactions to threats. Threat arises, better call Thrall, Furion and Tyrande.

Sure Sylvannas is left, she had some part to play in Cataclysm (Worgen starting area), but that's about it.

I would so much love to see these characters be the actual main characters of the world. See cut-scenes on how these characters change the story. To see their ideals. There is some of this but mostly amongst the characters from outside the Warcraft 3, like Garrosh, Varyan and Rhonin in WotLK. And than the 5 Dragon Aspects in Cataclysm.

I don't think that Deathwing itself was the issue with Cataclysm, but Metzen... no offense... but he is so old in terms of age, he should be so experienced in this...and he is... but when you look at the direction of the Warcraft story, you clearly see anime/manga and soap opera elements. No characters to back up the decisions.

Blizz order of thought about the storyline is "1 + 1 needs to equal to 2, so who do we have? we have thrall + garrosh needs to equal to garrosh warchief... okay... let's change/make both thrall, garrosh and circumstancs in order to make garrosh leader", and this isn't good.

What I would have loved to see is this "1+1 = 2, we have thrall, we have garrosh, we dont change anything about them... they represent certain character types, are they a match in order to make garrosh the warchief? Yes or No?" simple as that.

Two TV shows do this perfectly or almost perfectly in my opinion, and those are 'The Simpsons' and 'Grey's Anatomy'.

And this is what I would have loved from WoW storyline, a clash of characters, of personalities, which produce realistic character goals, ambitions and results. They did that a little with Varimathras, he 'killed' his own brothers, why wouldn't he betray the woman who forced him into it.

But characters just seem a means to an end. And for me characters are the end, and the action, the interaction are means to strengthen the characters themselves, and mature them.

While I agree with many of your points, I still have a few comments to your statement:

You clearly seem to base your arguments on the in-game story of World of Warcraft. What you fail to acknowledge are the books that run alongside the game. Books from which most of the in-game story is based. These books elaborate much on the characters you mentioned. Maiev plays a role in these (following the death of Illidan), and Furion, Tyrande and especially Thrall are usually some of the major protagonists.
Also, the five dragon aspects were introduced in one of the books that ran alongside WC3.
With that said, the books aren't all joy and fun. The authors tend to ignore parts of the Warcraft lore, or twist them through their own intepretations, which often leads to interferences or changing of our beloved WC3 lore, which in turn leads to the so-called "retcons". An example of this is Arthas' character in the book "Arthas: Rise of the Lich King". Golden, the author of that book, changed some of Arthas' main characteristics to those of her own interpretation.
Also, it was through another of these books that Garrosh was chosen Warchief. Surely Blizzard must have made that decision, but the circumstances through which it happened were likely the works of the author.

As a final remark, I definitely agree with you about the direction in which the WoW storyline is heading. It is turning more and more into your average soap opera, which leads to it being predictable and much less exciting.

 

[Edhel-dur]

While I agree with many of your points, I still have a few comments to your statement:

You clearly seem to base your arguments on the in-game story of World of Warcraft. What you fail to acknowledge are the books that run alongside the game. Books from which most of the in-game story is based. These books elaborate much on the characters you mentioned. Maiev plays a role in these (following the death of Illidan), and Furion, Tyrande and especially Thrall are usually some of the major protagonists.
Also, the five dragon aspects were introduced in one of the books that ran alongside WC3.
With that said, the books aren't all joy and fun. The authors tend to ignore parts of the Warcraft lore, or twist them through their own intepretations, which often leads to interferences or changing of our beloved WC3 lore, which in turn leads to the so-called "retcons". An example of this is Arthas' character in the book "Arthas: Rise of the Lich King". Golden, the author of that book, changed some of Arthas' main characteristics to those of her own interpretation.
Also, it was through another of these books that Garrosh was chosen Warchief. Surely Blizzard must have made that decision, but the circumstances through which it happened were likely the works of the author.

As a final remark, I definitely agree with you about the direction in which the WoW storyline is heading. It is turning more and more into your average soap opera, which leads to it being predictable and much less exciting.

First of all, Blizzard are using comic-book rules, which means that what comes later/newer has priority over what was said long time ago. So if they said a certain thing in Wc1, and than in WoW they decided to retconn, the retconn side is now 'lore'.

Second of all, I didn't leave out the books on accident. I know about the books, but you know what, I am a gamer, A GAMER! I want to play through the story, not read it. Sure there is nothing wrong with reading, but I hate it when reading a book is necessary to understand the characters and make them believable.

Because really for me, I don't understand how Illidan gone desperately mad in TBC. I mean the guy lived over 10,000 years, and he fought demons, okay he failed at TFT, but he would have kept his calm, and he was cunning enough to not make mistakes like betraying the Draenei.

 

[Teelo]

The European community became a suppurating sack of shit thanks to Cataclysm (sure lived up to its name) and that's why I ended up flying off the handle and cancelled my subscription.

To be fair, all the communities did. Noone wants to clear stuff for fun anymore, they need some big incentive, and they're dicks about it too.

"Oh we wiped? Fuck this I'm leaving, 'ur all dum fks go die i no tim 4 dis'"

 

[Deleted member 212788]

Wow is dead not just cause of lore and community issues. More and more great indie games which are F2P are coming to the scene and some of them just have more to offer. Moreover, Guild Wars 2 simply sealed the deal as it removed subscription fees.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Well, to be technical a bit, WoW isn't dead as it still has a good subscription base.

Also, to be honest, I've been doing some research lately about MoP. I can't say much about PvP, and story sucks, but in terms of Classes, Specializations and PvE... they are really promising. I think they finally managed to shift from the TBC raiding formula to a different and maybe even better one. TBC raiding was all about team-work and having the required classes/special gear for many fights (Magtheridon, Kael, Illidan) than less individual skill fights (like Archimonde), while with the start of WotLK and Cata they tried to emphasize more on fights like Archimonde... however they didn't really properly succeed I felt, but now... at least the first tier of raiding in MoP looks bad ass.

 

[chr2]

Wow is dead not just cause of lore and community issues. More and more great indie games which are F2P are coming to the scene and some of them just have more to offer. Moreover, Guild Wars 2 simply sealed the deal as it removed subscription fees.

Guild Wars 2 sealed the deal? I beg to differ. GW2 was amazing to begin with, and brought what seemed to be a completely different way of presenting MMOs. After leveling for a while, it got repetitive, even more so than WoW quests, and I learned that their quest-system wasn't different at all, it was only meant to seem that way. Finally, as soon as I hit the cap, there was nothing more to do. No real endgame content, only the same repetitive grinding. That, and PvP of course, which was the only aspect in which GW2 was superior to WoW.

 

[Footmanspam]

Pretty sure it will be ghost town due to payment.

 

[Footmanspam]

Gallaylas - Moonguard (Fricken Goldshire) Thorning - Moonguard

 

[andreasaspenberg]

there will most likely be another expansion but the big questions is wether there will be strong enough pc to run it.(i had to switch to a new graphics card to run mists of pandaria perfectly.) the pet battles are certainly fun but they should increase the level cap there. they should add more content next time and a higher level cap increase. Illidan was killed by arthas in the frozen throne by being cut in half so world of warcraft have slight differences in story.

 

[Bernkastel]

What. Illidan didn't die there...

 

[andreasaspenberg]

illidan was cut in half. nobody survives that.

 

[takakenji]

wow lore has a ton of flaws and illogical things and thats undeniable really, i can go on and on about them all. mop isnt bad but cantreverse the damage already done

 

[Talavaj]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB82pF_64mw
Illidan wasn't cut in half, he only has a not so big wound not to mention he is still obviously alive afterwards.

 

[PROXY]

Illidan survives and Vasj and Kael take him to Outland >.>

 

[_lycan]

I'm surprised this thread is still alive, anyways everyone knows wow is dead now, i don't think anyone will start playing at mop and the only thing we can expect is hardcore wow players to be leaving wow each month.

 

[andreasaspenberg]

lots of people are still playing world of warcraft but, blizzard have lost a lot of customers to the free servers. (i wont discuss them here though. i dont want any trouble.) blizzard might however have gained customers by offering free accounts where people can play to level 20. that enables people to get multiple level 20 character before they start paying.

 

[Rui]

(...)
"Oh we wiped? Fuck this I'm leaving, 'ur all dum fks go die i no tim 4 dis'"

Sounds like the ambient in The Kingdom of Kaliron community

 

[Vengeful]

No. Its so unlikely.

WoW is not dead and will not as soon as human use computer as a console. maybe cata and Pandarian hadn't pop like wol but eventhough wol will completly make it lover happy.

Even if blizzard crash and dossn't support free servers, WoW will be alive. It have to be!

 

[Codric]

WoW's Story line Died when Arthas did (for me), but even if it died for me they should have stopped you know let the horde and alliance live in peace move on to another game w/e but they just could not leave it alone.

 

[Napoqe]

WoW (World of Warcraft) has died after expansion Wrath of the Lich!
And one of the culprits was Activision (even in the expansion 3).

3 = Wrath of the Lich

In Brazil the price the game is too absurd! In reality all games from Activision!

 

[Bernkastel]

No Arthas fanboys, it's not dead.

 

[Xonok]

As if something could die when there's undead necromancers around...
WoW is officially UNDEAD

 

[marko9]

WoW should not have been 'born' in the first place...

 

[Roland]

World of Warcraft will never be dead due to massive updates and news Plus too many Gamers play there.

 

[Vengeful]

WoW should not have been 'born' in the first place...

WTF?

I can not even imagine a world without J.R.R Talkin, Richard. A. Knock and Blizzard company.

How you dare to speak such a thing?

There are more than 0.7 of a billion fan around the world just for Lord of the Rings.

ad warcraft Thrilogy is somthing deeper, more attractiv and wider than LotR.

OMG!!!

 

[Codric]

No Arthas fanboys, it's not dead.

I am a fanboy of Arthas, best, char, ever, and I am not ashamed.
And yes wow will never "really" die because too many blindsighted fools are playing it for the PvP and stuff. But really Blizzard fucked up thats the deal, nothing gonna change that, I just do hope they enjoy there money that they are making for the art died with ARTHAS!

And Bernkastel, WoW is really and truley dead in lore and for more than lets say 1 million, people around the world, I am happy for you that you still think WoW is not dead, enjoy it while you can.

 

[Bernkastel]

WoW had much more significant characters in its lore than scrub Arthas, Deathwing for example.

 

[takakenji]

WoW had much more significant characters in its lore than scrub Arthas, Deathwing for example.

deathwing is a bad one dimensional character whos defeat made no sense